Guild Wars 2

It would be a huge buff to personal DPS in solo instances if Chronomancer line got a trait reworked to work similar to how Reaper’s Deathly Chill originally worked. Buff improved alacrity to give us a 10-15% personal DPS boost while under the effects of alacrity (and also, somewhat related, Lost Time should also give us a 10% damage boost against slowed enemies, that would go a long way to really complete the immersion of Slow into the chronomancer line).

Now before anyone goes complaining about this buffing mesmer to beyond godmode levels, just sit back and think about this proposed change. For a Raid build, a full alacrity/full quickness rotation leaves the mesmer with less than 10k personal damage, which means this change would add less than 1k DPS to the entire raid squad. So it is anything but broken. In PvP, noone is running an alacrity setup because the fights are too quick. If you have chronomancer you may get alacrity a few seconds each fight depending on which shatters are off cooldown. The proposed change to Lost Time could make a difference, but honestly a slow based build still wouldn’t be the most dangerous thing a mesmer can bring to PvP anyway, so again not OP.

In PvE it would make things just a bit more bearable, especially if we got both changes. It would help out alot, and just make solo content much less miserable. For WvW, well again this really only boosts the individual player, and anyone running a full alacrity build is doing kitten damage anyway, so no one would notice a difference except for any slow based chrono builds (which could work reasonably well in WvW).

Overall I do think this is a much needed change, even though it is gated behind the elite spec it would make open world content more enjoyable.

The problem is that this doesn’t buff mesmer. It buffs Chrono. If you fix the Mesmer dps problem with chrono-specific modifiers, it just recreates the problem for the next elite spec that gets released.

Mesmer dps needs to be fixed for Mesmer, not for a specific elite spec of Mesmer.

I know, I just figured that this was more likely to be implemented than actually addressing our outdated class mechanic.

Well, there’s also the bigger issue that DPS per se isn’t the problem with Mesmer so much as the relatively long DPS ramp-up time and the sharp trough our DPS falls into when faced with multiple targets, both of which are tied to the twin facts that:

• Most of our damage comes from Phantasms
• Phantasms disappear when their original target dies

We can parse alright enough damage when we’re up against a single target that takes more than 20 seconds to kill, but ultimately that’s not a situation that occurs in many places in the game.

Fay.2357:

Mesmer dps needs to be fixed for Mesmer, not for a specific elite spec of Mesmer.

That’s exactly the problem we have. The core Mes is utterly garbage in it’s current state. There should be a combination of 3 trait lines that allows us to deal good dps, while specing Chrono makes this impossible for the cost of being a uber support.

I’d welcome a trait in chaos or duelling, that makes modifiers that affect us, be shared with the phantasms. This would be great as baseline, and only fair, but I’d expect it to not chance the Chrono, Mesmer situation we currently have. Maybe this trait should also share the 20% crit chance from fury or sigil procs? Maybe too much, but it’s only a concept.

Our phantasm damage is a large % of our damage, but considering how low our damage is, I doubt that their damage would be _over_buffed if we got a baseline trait that shared our boons with them.

Remember, the absolute highest possible DPS that anyone has ever gotten on a chrono was 30k dps (using several assumptions about phantasms not dying, all condis applied permanently on the mob etc, all boons on phantasms etc…), which means that it wasn’t completely accurate anyway. Its not like we would suddenly be at the top of the DPS pool if this change were to happen. This would be enough to balance core mesmer in the game in terms of DPS

I don’t know if we need to share boons, necessarily, though that wouldn’t hurt. The bigger issue seems to be the anti-synergy of traits that only the Mesmer but not Illusions. Like Compounding Power and Danger Time, for instance. We don’t have much access to damage increasing traits, compared to other classes, and most of the ones we have are more restrictive in what skills they apply to.

But, I think I’ve said this before, I don’t think that lack of raw DPS per se is what holds Mesmer back, at least in PvE. I feel more aggrieved about all the fight mechanics that seem precisely calibrated to kitten over our ability to contribute what little DPS we can provide.

What I definitely have said before is that more of the damage we do have needs to move off Phantasms and directly onto our weapon skills. It’s a two-birds-one-stone solution, IMO. Mechanics that punish illusions get less punishing and the inconsistent application of damage buffs to Phantasms becomes less of a deal. Three birds, maybe, if you consider that our ability to camp stealth while letting AIs deal all our damage for us is one of the excuses salty PvP players use for constantly crying nerf.

I’m reaching a point where I believe ANet should consider Illusions – or at least Phantasms – not being linked to one specific target. Yes, there would be flaws lorewise (…Illusions being in the mind of your target, yadda yadda). But those were there from the start anyway.

Regardless, I’m all in favour for redistributing some damage from Phantasms. I enjoyed that they picked up the idea to add some basic effect to Utility Phantasms. The same should be done with the others which naturally would include damage.

I also think they should revisited the few damage modificators we got. I’m not a fan of those in general but they’re just way too weak on Mesmers. Fragility and Harmonious Mantras are both untertuned. And we could easily add a ‘if your target is confused’-something-damage-or-crit-trait to Duelling.

How about phantasms stay alive after target death, but regular clones do not. As it is, phantasms are a more powerful illusion, and even in their graphics they appear to be less tied to individual targets and more corporeal summons, so from a lore perspective it wouldn’t be too hard to believe that phantasms would be able to survive through target death.

Grandmaster illusion major trait: Contagious Insanity

Phantasms pick a new nearby target when their current target dies.

Fay.2357:

Grandmaster illusion major trait: Contagious Insanity

Phantasms pick a new nearby target when their current target dies.

I love this idea…. and I would love laughing at all the ways Arenanet would mess up the implementation. Mesmer OP for killing critters and yellow mobs.

Honestly, as annoying as it would be for ANet to “fix” our class mechanic that way… I’d take it.

(I suspect changing the rules about how Phantasms despawn and choose targets would be too large of an undertaking, from a QA perspective if not an engineering one, to ever realistically expect it to happen, either as a trait or a baseline effect. Hence why I like to make suggestions that leave Phantasms mostly as they are now and just move their damage around instead.)

Fay.2357:

Grandmaster illusion major trait: Contagious Insanity

Phantasms pick a new nearby target when their current target dies.

Honestly this shouldn’t be a trait but a feature of the class mechanic itself

OriOri.8724:

Fay.2357:

Grandmaster illusion major trait: Contagious Insanity

Phantasms pick a new nearby target when their current target dies.

Honestly this shouldn’t be a trait but a feature of the class mechanic itself

Exactly. Make it baseline. Build diversity, yey!

We already have a trait that shares our boons with Phantasms, its called Phantasmal Fury. Unless they have changed it recently Phantasms aren’t affected by any might they might end up with but are affected by might on the Mesmer.

Being able to give them our other boons could be useful in PvP but really wouldn’t effect anything in PvE.

Phantasms are affected by ALL raw stats such as power, precision, ferocity, condition damage, condition duration, boon duration, healing power, vitality and toughness.

However they are not affected by modifiers we get, like from fury, runes, sigils, grace of the land, frost spirit, food (on movment), etc.

The issue here is that profession X gets 100% boosted by any of those modifiers. If we get fury, only parts of our attacks truly get affeced by fury. Superior Sigil of Force? +2.5% dmg. 5 stacks Grace of the Land? +7.5% dmg. Stuff like that hurts us since ages, and it’s not fair it works like this.

Phantasmal Fury shouldn’t be a triat – it should be baseline and make room for another trait we could use.

Levetty.1279:

We already have a trait that shares our boons with Phantasms, its called Phantasmal Fury. Unless they have changed it recently Phantasms aren’t affected by any might they might end up with but are affected by might on the Mesmer.

Being able to give them our other boons could be useful in PvP but really wouldn’t effect anything in PvE.

Try again. That trait doesn’t share our boons with our phantasms, it just gives them fury. It doesn’t give them any of our other boons/effects (quickness, might etc…)

OriOri.8724:

Levetty.1279:

We already have a trait that shares our boons with Phantasms, its called Phantasmal Fury. Unless they have changed it recently Phantasms aren’t affected by any might they might end up with but are affected by might on the Mesmer.

Being able to give them our other boons could be useful in PvP but really wouldn’t effect anything in PvE.

Try again. That trait doesn’t share our boons with our phantasms, it just gives them fury. It doesn’t give them any of our other boons/effects (quickness, might etc…)

Read what I wrote. Its quite obvious I was saying fury was the only worthwhile boon to share with phantasms, particular in the context of damage in PvE, and we already have a trait that gives it to them.

Fury is not the only worthwhile boon to share with phantasms. Being able to share full might stacks with them, and quickness, would help their damage so much. Besides, that doesn’t change the fact that it should be basleine that our phantasms share our boons, we shouldn’t have to trait for it at all, but as long as we do have to trait for it then its an even bigger argument to change the trait to make them share all of our boons instead of just giving them fury.

OriOri.8724:

Being able to share full might stacks with them

So you didn’t read what I wrote.

Phantasm attacks do a ton of damage, of course they’d benefit from receiving our Might stacks. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make.

Unless they have changed it recently Phantasms aren’t affected by any might they might end up with but are affected by might on the Mesmer.

This point, this point right here from my first post.

Levetty.1279:

Unless they have changed it recently Phantasms aren’t affected by any might they might end up with but are affected by might on the Mesmer.

This point, this point right here from my first post.

Source.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Stealth-buff-to-Sigil-of-Accuracy/first#post2374109
A long time ago I ended up testing fury on phantasms. p.Fury is the only source of fury that works on phantasms. To recreate this test. Get 60% base crit chance. Get p.Fury. Give fury to self and use SoI to share it. The phantasms won’t crit 100% of the time. Then try to get 80% base crit without p.Fury. Share Fury to the phantasms. Still won’t be 100% crit chance.

I can’t recall a source looking at phantasms and might but it’s easy to check in the testing arena. Add 25 might to self. That 25 might on the mesmer will buff the phantasms since it’s raw power to the mesmer. Summon 3 swordsman, cast SoI and see if the damage goes up. I just checked…. ~6.4k crits without using SoI. ~6.4k after using SoI to buff swordsman.

Quickness does seem to affect them although I didn’t pay too much attention. Alacrity for some reason does affect phantasms too. I didn’t post results on it but I recall summoning 3 shield phantasms to test PH and alacrity sped them up.

Quickness and alacrity make sense though when I think about it. The phantasms have skills with activation times and CDs. Quickness and alacrity affect them. They inherent raw stats from the Mesmer. Giving might to them doesn’t affect the raw stats of the Mesmer.

Phantasms are affected by ALL raw stats such as power, precision, ferocity, condition damage, condition duration, boon duration, healing power, vitality and toughness.

However they are not affected by modifiers we get, like from fury, runes, sigils, grace of the land, frost spirit, food (on movment), etc.

The issue here is that profession X gets 100% boosted by any of those modifiers. If we get fury, only parts of our attacks truly get affeced by fury. Superior Sigil of Force? +2.5% dmg. 5 stacks Grace of the Land? +7.5% dmg. Stuff like that hurts us since ages, and it’s not fair it works like this.

Phantasmal Fury shouldn’t be a triat – it should be baseline and make room for another trait we could use.

This is the problem. And the solution is the let modifiers affect phantasms.

Phantasms are affected by might on mesmer since they inherit stats from mesmer.
Might on them have no effect. Only boons that have a % moddifier increase affects them when applied on them.
But %moddifiers on mesmer have no effects on phantasms.

Summary:
All stats related buffs/boons must be applied on mesmer to affect phantasms. They have no effect when applied to phantasms on their own.
(ex. might, banners, spotter, etc.)

%increase boons/buffs only when directly applied on phantams affect them. These applied on mesmer only, have no effect on phantasms. (ex. force/accuracy runes/sigils, GoTL, fury, quickness, alacrity, etc.)

All condition damage counts as coming from mesmer it self. Even if was a phantam attack that “applied” them. Phantasm only serve as a trigger.
(For duelist discipline/sharper images bleeds, keep in mind c.rate from phantasms since they are the trigger to proc bleeds, yet all other calcs, condi damage/duration, its mesmer related)

OriOri.8724:

Levetty.1279:

Unless they have changed it recently Phantasms aren’t affected by any might they might end up with but are affected by might on the Mesmer.

This point, this point right here from my first post.

Source.

It’s worked that way since the beginning of the game. Go test it yourself if you want more confirmation. That functionality is due to the way in which stats are inherited from the mesmer by illusions. Read Xyonon’s post for a slightly more specific description of that.

Fay.2357:

Grandmaster illusion major trait: Contagious Insanity

Phantasms pick a new nearby target when their current target dies.

Better yet, baseline change that phantasms are permanent pets till shattered or killed and move with the mesmer attacking the same target/last target.

I’d still rather we get rid of damage on phantasms though for damage modifiers and real skills that do damage but that’s a dream at this moment in time. Maybe an overhaul of clone AI to dodge every now and then as well as move to be confusing.