Guild Wars 2

With PoF Prepatch we got a new trait in the illusion tree, Phantasmal Force. It increases damage of phants every time they attack (4%) or gain might (1%) up to a maximum of additional 25%. Obviously this trait – and regarding the time table below – is meant for Mesmers who do not shatter their Illusions.

With Phantasmal Haste, no might buff and based on the related wiki page phants get the 25% with the 7th hit (rounded from 6,25) resulting in hitting with +25% damage at the 8th attack after XX seconds per phant. (These numbers also do not include the time they need to land their first hit, as it also depends on the distance to the mob they have to run to first):

Avenger: 44,1 seconds
Berserker: 42,7
Defender: 28,7
Disenchanter: 15,4
Duelist: 46,2
Mage: 35
Mariner: 59,5
Rogue: 31,5
Swordsman: 24,5
Warden: 86,1
Warlock: 39,9
Whaler: 59,5

Defender (utility), Disenchanter (utility), Swordsman (offhand sword) and Mage (torch) seem to be the phants who get the bonus the quickest (but except Swordsman also do the lowest damage per hit). I didn’t count in Rogue, because the Mesmer has to be in downed state to summon it. While the idea of adding damage to phants is a good one, the time it takes to get the bonus seems pretty long, although I do not know how the might boon mechanic in this case works. (Also what about Alacrity and Quickness, do they affect phants too?) E.g. summoning the swordsman in melee range and hitting with sword strike gives both the Mesmer and every Swordsman an 8-stack might buff. Whether this results in +8% damage or just 1% I don’t know. And to keep it “lasting as short as possible” the Mesmer only should do this three times, else one Swordsman gets replaced by another fresh one who has to build up the bonus again.

I do not know the Mirage traits and gameplay, so whether Chrono or Core or Mirage would synergize best we have yet to figure out. Any thoughts? Or even answers?

People have already opted to use this trait for huge damage gains. Power Mesmer is hitting 30k dps with a 2 button rotation (over the course of 10s).
The build is: Due 131, Ill 121, Dom 22x
(x can be 2 or 3, it doesn’t REALLY matter)
However, to answer your question and thoughts…

I’m not 100% sure if Alacrity affects Phants, but Quickness definitely does. It’s more noticeable on long channels (cough Warden cough).

Also, Swordsman will ramp faster than the listed value because he typically spawns with 8 might and gains an additional 8 might most of the time a Swordsman is summoned.

Mirage traits don’t synergize or offer anything (except Super Speed, so good!!! /s) for Phantasms. Chrono can benefit from PF, but since you’re typically summoning Avengers, you’re getting a minimal DPS increase (arguably less than running Dom for a flat 15% because of the slow ramp and phant replacements), but something is less than nothing.

Currently, Power Mesmer gets the most value out of PF because it spawns 3 Swordsman (first Swordsman will be at 20 stacks before the second attack hits), and only cares about direct damage. Condi Mes can get a little bit of value out of it because 99% of attacks in GW2 are tied to direct damage, but it’s fighting for the same slot as reduced cooldown on Scepter skills, so I don’t think people opt for it (and I wouldn’t).

If you’re thinking of the third traitline for Chrono, slot Dom, Chaos, or Dueling depending on your needs.

If you’re thinking of traitlines for Mirage… avoid Phantasms for now. We’ll see what they do with Mirage, though.

Lanhelin.3480:

(but except Swordsman also do the lowest damage per hit).

Well this is kinda wrong. We know for infact Swordsman does the most direct damage out of all the Phantasms in realistic scenarios.

On to the matter. Phantasmal Force really augments Mesmer’s DPS cause the bulk of our damage comes from Phantasms. There’s maximized build that uses the new traits Superiority Complex and Phantasmal force that pushes Power DPS into 30k. It works with Core Mesmer Phantasm builds very well, but that’s not to say that the build doesn’t have problems. It has low cleave, long dps downtime due to waiting for our Mesmer to get 3 Phantasms up. It does have the utility of being able to slot 2 free utilities for anything.

There’s a Chrono variant of the Mesmer Phantasm build, and it does just a bit less DPS about (-1k) than the Core Mesmer one, it just replaces Domi with Chrono 3-3-3. It fixes the problems of Core Mesmer variant, which is less reliance on Phantasms, more cleave damage and better utility by allowing us to Shatter our Phantasms through ChronoPhantasma.

Also, tested Alacrity on Phantasms way back. It does affect them. It would be interesting if Anet changed one of the useless traits on Chrono to share Alacrity with Phantasms to further push DPS. Like replacing Delayed Reactions for it.

Refia Montes.3205:

On to the matter. Phantasmal Force really augments Mesmer’s DPS cause the bulk of our damage comes from Phantasms.

False. Phantasms make up ~40% of our dps, even on condi builds.

It has low cleave, long dps downtime due to waiting for our Mesmer to get 3 Phantasms up. It does have the utility of being able to slot 2 free utilities for anything.

False, it takes ~10s to get 3 Swordsman up and you’ll have 3 Phantasms up within 3s of starting the fight. The ramp time is mainly getting them buffed, which is a non-issue for Swordsman (+8 Might on Spawn, high attack rate, etc). The slow ramp time on DPS is making up for the initial low burst where you’re casting instead of DPSing (think precasting, but after the fight starts, wasted time).

There’s a Chrono variant of the Mesmer Phantasm build, and it does just a bit less DPS about (-1k) than the Core Mesmer one, it just replaces Domi with Chrono 3-3-3. It fixes the problems of Core Mesmer variant, which is less reliance on Phantasms, more cleave damage and better utility by allowing us to Shatter our Phantasms through ChronoPhantasma.

False. Chrono brings it’s own issues. ChronoPhantasma is a terrible trait to pair with Phantasmal Force as it resets the stacks. You also lose a 15% damage multiplier on Phantasms for dropping Dom. Additionally, you run Chrono 313 because the extra crit rate from Danger Time is a huge stat boost for the Mes (note: this does not affect Phantasms).

The point of bringing Chrono is literally to start the fight with 3 Swordsman instead of waiting for the cooldown to summon the third. Additionally, you get to bring Well of Action for more DPS (lol). You don’t use any shatter after the start of fight cast phase and you get useful utilities (because base mes doesn’t have dps utilities).

Esplen.3940:

False. Phantasms make up ~40% of our dps, even on condi builds.

40% of our DPS is still a bulk of it.

False, it takes ~10s to get 3 Swordsman up and you’ll have 3 Phantasms up within 3s of starting the fight. The ramp time is mainly getting them buffed, which is a non-issue for Swordsman (+8 Might on Spawn, high attack rate, etc). The slow ramp time on DPS is making up for the initial low burst where you’re casting instead of DPSing (think precasting, but after the fight starts, wasted time).

Umm, yeah 10 seconds. With a different class they just deal dps upfront, not needing to build up Phantasms unlike us. Other classes don’t need to start up.

False. Chrono brings it’s own issues. ChronoPhantasma is a terrible trait to pair with Phantasmal Force as it resets the stacks. You also lose a 15% damage multiplier on Phantasms for dropping Dom. Additionally, you run Chrono 313 because the extra crit rate from Danger Time is a huge stat boost for the Mes (note: this does not affect Phantasms).

The point of bringing Chrono is literally to start the fight with 3 Swordsman instead of waiting for the cooldown to summon the third. Additionally, you get to bring Well of Action for more DPS (lol). You don’t use any shatter after the start of fight cast phase and you get useful utilities (because base mes doesn’t have dps utilities).

Bringing Chronophantasma is worth it for that emergencies when you need to shatter. CCing the boss for his breakbar, Distorting to get out of a sticky situation. In this cases you shatter them and lose a bit of DPS but with Chronophantasma your Phantasms are still up (or some of them) although their PF stacks have reset. Better than nothing ‘yknow. Bringing Chrono also brings a lot of AoE and personal damage to Mesmer and with a perfect and more difficult rotation it can reach as much DPS as Core Mesmer. I can get 29k DPS on Power Chrono without providing any other buffs like a regular Chrono, but at least compared to Core Mesmer, I bring more CC and more Cleave through Tides of Time, Mimic, Well of Calamity and Gravity Well. Also you’re more useful than Core Mesmer against trash mobs.

Refia Montes.3205:

Lanhelin.3480:

(but except Swordsman also do the lowest damage per hit).

Well this is kinda wrong. We know for infact Swordsman does the most direct damage out of all the Phantasms in realistic scenarios.

Sorry, my wording is misleading there. I meant all the phants I mentioned in the sentence before do the lowest damage, except Swordsman.

Thank you all for your answers.

Refia Montes.3205:

Esplen.3940:

False. Phantasms make up ~40% of our dps, even on condi builds.

40% of our DPS is still a bulk of it.

Sure. But that depends on how you personally define bulk. When used to say “the bulk of something” it typically means majority, not large in quantity. However, that’s an issue with language not properly delivering intent, not you or me.

Umm, yeah 10 seconds. With a different class they just deal dps upfront, not needing to build up Phantasms unlike us. Other classes don’t need to start up.

At this point you’re getting defensive. A 10s wind-up is pretty small compared to our previous windup lengths of 30+s. Even Condi Mes has a 10s wind-up which is considered negligible. The only time it comes into play is when you need to re-target or fight new enemies (see: Keep Construct).

False. Chrono brings it’s own issues. ChronoPhantasma is a terrible trait to pair with Phantasmal Force as it resets the stacks. You also lose a 15% damage multiplier on Phantasms for dropping Dom. Additionally, you run Chrono 313 because the extra crit rate from Danger Time is a huge stat boost for the Mes (note: this does not affect Phantasms).

The point of bringing Chrono is literally to start the fight with 3 Swordsman instead of waiting for the cooldown to summon the third. Additionally, you get to bring Well of Action for more DPS (lol). You don’t use any shatter after the start of fight cast phase and you get useful utilities (because base mes doesn’t have dps utilities).

Bringing Chronophantasma is worth it for that emergencies when you need to shatter.

You shouldn’t have to panic f4, that’s the point of the braindead rotation. If you know an attack is coming, hold your BF for a second. Otherwise, run a utility to act as your defense.

CCing the boss for his breakbar,

See: Moa, Sword4, Pistol5, Focus4, Signet of Dom. Moa alone is more than enough breakbar to carry your own breakbar weight.

Distorting to get out of a sticky situation.

Again, you shouldn’t be shattering.

In this cases you shatter them and lose a bit of DPS but with Chronophantasma your Phantasms are still up (or some of them) although their PF stacks have reset. Better than nothing ’yknow.

You lose a lot more than a bit of DPS. One shatter will remove 1-2 Phants depending on how you did your setup, meaning you now need to use your Heal skill (if it’s off cooldown) and spend a few seconds casting to make up for shattering. Still not sure what shatter you’d use to justify this when your rotation is literally 5 buttons every 20 seconds.

Bringing Chrono also brings a lot of AoE

Well of Calamity is not a lot of AoE.

and personal damage to Mesmer

It offers no damage boost in comparison to Power Mes, just utility. It has lower DPS because of this.

and with a perfect and more difficult rotation it can reach as much DPS as Core Mesmer.

No, it can’t. In similar tests, it will always have less DPS. You’re dropping 15% Phantasm damage for 30% self-crit chance (does not affect Phantasms, which means your Phants are doing less and having a higher chance of not critting), and a shorter setup phase.

I got can get 29k DPS on Power Chrono without providing any other buffs like a regular Chrono, but at least compared to Core Mesmer, I bring more CC and more Cleave through Tides of Time, Mimic, Well of Calamity and Gravity Well. Also you’re more useful than Core Mesmer against trash mobs.

Core Mesmer can just slap on Focus or Greatsword for trash mobs, then switch to /Sword to cleave them through. Sword hits 3 targets, which is slightly less than wells but a lot more reliable (100% uptime baby).

Shield offers a 9% CC if the Mesmer is running off Focus. It’s actually equal if the Mesmer is running off Pistol (but Pistol will guaranteed hit for 200 unlike ToT, which may not return properly). Additionally if you’re using ToT for DPS, it’s not guaranteed to be up for breakbars, unlike Sword4/Pistol5/Focus4/etc. Mimic + Well of Calamity is not a lot of cleave, since it’s highly unreliable due to long cooldowns, as well as being static in place.

Lastly, Gravity Well is a very poor choice for elite. Moa offers 1000 breakbar damage while Gravity Well does 550. It does add damage, but it does a weaker break over a longer period of time.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6szbmy/dps_benchmarks_power_mesmer_305k309k_power/

Eh this is not worth arguing about.

TLDR. Power Chrono can do 1k less DPS than Core Mesmer, while bringing more utility and cleave through Tides of Time, WoC and GW. And with those skills it brings Chrono at least close to core Mesmer by just shedding Domi. Imo, have tried playing core Power mes on fractals. It’s freaking clunky, compared to Chrono.

The large golem tests have higher dps because ToT hits more. It won’t have more CC, utility or cleave. I explained why.

And I’m not sure how one build can be clunky when it’s the dumbed down version of another build.

There’s also a small golem version, which lets the ToT hits only two times, 29.2k dps. On large it deals 30.2k dps. In comparison the Sw/Sw and x/Torch does 30.7k dps. About 1.5k dps loss.

Also it’s clunky because most of your damage comes from Phantasms, so Sw/Sw is useless so you have to use your Focus to pull them and used Blurred Flurry only on mobs and Sword Phantasms don’t really help in those scenarios. With Chrono you can use Focus pull to clump them up, use ToT, WoC and Blurred Flurry. Sure for Raid bosses, which one big boss battle where you only have to worry about single target DPS, it’s better. But it has better cleave than core Mesmer in every way just because it has more cleaving skills which makes it worth bringing in dungeons/instances that cleave is a bit needed.

You say that as if trash fights last long enough for you to even ramp dps. Your ToT and WoC are going to be on cd between trash fight encounters in dungeons and sword autos + warden pull/warden is actually enough “cleave” to finish the encounter.