Guild Wars 2

First off, I’m sorry for my poor English, i hope you can understand what I mean “behind” the words.
I read a lot about the iMage and how people suggests to tweak/fix it somehow. However, in all those thoughts and reasoning the “remove condition” aspect is never mentioned (Cleansing Conflagration: Dom IX)
While other classes proc boons (guardians) OR conditions (necros), mesmer procs both (see Chaos Storm, Chaos Armor etc…). Here comes the confusion/retaliation pair of the iMage.
Behind this, a traited iMage becomes a condition removal too, pretty similar to the iDisenchanter (even though iMage doesn’t remove boons). That means, with 3 iMages, one could stack confusion/retal and plus keep oneself condition-free.
I think this forgotten and never-mentioned iMage’s effect changes a lot of things (such as the long CD people complaints).
Am I wrong? What do you think about?
Aska.

You’re right, it is amazing if traited and geared right. That said, reduce the CD. The one thing I feel I want more out of my iMage strategy is a faster uptime getting it rolling.

Considering, of course, that iMage has some mechanical problems with spawn and attack distance, and that he (like most phantasms) can die pretty quickly, a shorter CD would in part alleviate these issues.

I am a staunch defender of my iMage. Love that traited condition removing kitten. ^^

Dom IX is “torch skills remove cons” ?? If yes does the summon or the attack of the phantasm remove one condition?

Xyonon.3987:

Dom IX is “torch skills remove cons” ?? If yes does the summon or the attack of the phantasm remove one condition?

Traited torch removes a condition on both #4 and #5 when used. Also, the image bounce will also remove a condition on you, if it hits you ofc. (This is what I’ve heard at least, so don’t lynch me if it isn’t correct )

Yeah, you are right. However, when it comes down to personal taste, as much as I like the idea behind torch, you only get a chance to get retaliation or conditions removed. I mean it gives ret/cleanses a condition if it hits you, meaning, if you are close enough.
This shouldn’t be a problem with a sword, since you should be sticking to your target anyway, but scepter is a ranged weapon AND spawns clones besides target.

Unkitten unces prioritize the real mesmer (giving him away instantly), a lot of boucnes are going to be “lost”. Also, I feel like phantasms don’t last long enough in pvp (when talking long-CD phantasms, and summoning 2 or more of the same kind).

does it also work for allies?

Xyonon.3987:

does it also work for allies?

It should yes. The bounce prioritize player characters before clones/npc’s.

I just mean if I have traited it, does it mean it cleanses everyone or jsut me :P

Xyonon.3987:

I just mean if I have traited it, does it mean it cleanses everyone or jsut me :P

On cast it only cleanses you, also with #4. However, the image bolt that bounces can cleanse others if the bolt hits them.

1. Only the first bounce has a priority. The rest is random.

2. Retaliation is crap for condi build while confusion is crap for Power build. Both don’t do enough dmg even with appropriate spec.

3. CD is way too long, Prestige is OK, iMage is not. Even if you get double CD reduction, it’s still about 18 second CD. Now, say, you run a power build, your
Idueslit/Swordman/Warlock and even Warden will wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy outdmg iMage. If you run a condition build, even staff#2 which has <=8 second CD will deal wayyyyyyyyyyy more dmg.

4. Disenchanter has lower attack interval, remove boon and cure condition at the same time with 20CD base (16 if traited).

5. 3 Images mean at least 54!!! seconds in battle with NO shattering and dmging phantasms whatsoever. Also, your first Image won’t last that long.

I don’t love the iMage, but I also don’t think it’s as bad as many people claim. It is generally compared in a vaccum to the other Phantasms, but of course that’s silly. You have to factor in both The Prestige and the associated Torch trait, even if it doesn’t fit into many/most builds, it’s something that’s there to make more builds viable! And that it does, because traited the Torch is pretty awesome, providing passive Condie removal that we sorely lack otherwise. (Passive as in you’re likely to use the abilities anyway, and thus frequently cleanse stuff off you without deliberately thinking about it.)

The Prestige is also a very strong ability useful both offensively and defensively, and becomes even more powerful with PU. It’s good for both Condie and burst builds, and is strong both in 1v1 or AE. Not many abilities in the game are as powerful and flexible as TP.

So the Torch has a lot of synergies with traits, and thus certain builds. I’m OK with that. I do think the iMage could use some tweaks and bugfixes, such as the CD lowered as suggested above, and/or having it’s Confusion properly respect the Mesmers condition duration, but overall I don’t think it’s a terrible Phantasm at all. (Given the right build!)

Agree with the confusion duration needing to adhere to the casters condi duration.

While being great when traited, the iMage for itself is quite bad. I’m using torch in a power build right now, mainly for the condi remove and decent cd stealth (the blast on reveal does pretty good damage, too) but i rarely use iMage against non-condi builds.

I have to reply to some of these pretty common complaints, that IMO are being rather selective:

DavyMcB.1603:

2. Retaliation is crap for condi build while confusion is crap for Power build. Both don’t do enough dmg even with appropriate spec.

I don’t agree with this, the Retal/Confusion part of their attack is clearly designed to be a secondary effect that is useful to both condie & power builds. No matter how crappy Retaliation is for a condie-build, or Confusion for a power build, both add more trickle-damage to the attack.

Taken in a vaccum it’s still fairly lackluster I agree, but no other weapon-based Phantasm can be traited to remove condie’s either. So it’s not a broadly useful offhand weapon, I agree, but the synergy with 2 traits makes it more then viable in several currently strong builds. (At least for WvW and hot-join sPvP.)

As stated though, condie duration absolutely must transfer to the iMages Confusion! I consider that a bug that definitely needs to be fixed! And it could easily be bumped to 4 or 5 seconds duration, or 5 stacks too, without overpowering the iMage or Torch in general. Considering Engies have 2 abilities that apply 5 stacks of confusion (AE in one case!), I don’t really see why ANet is being so careful with Confusion on Mesmers; the confusion class!?

Now that confusion has been toned down, there is no reason not to tweak up the amount we can stack up. It’s not confusion that’s broken IMHO, it’s that we can’t apply enough of it! Especially to single-targets!

DavyMcB.1603:

3. CD is way too long, Prestige is OK, iMage is not. Even if you get double CD reduction, it’s still about 18 second CD. Now, say, you run a power build, your
Idueslit/Swordman/Warlock and even Warden will wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy outdmg iMage. If you run a condition build, even staff#2 which has <=8 second CD will deal wayyyyyyyyyyy more dmg.

Sorry, but this is purely hypothetical. For example, a Warden does more damage if you’re dumb enough to stand there and take it, but in that rosy fantasy world, I could also say that the iMage will do more damage in a Condie build vs. a button-spammer.

DavyMcB.1603:

4. Disenchanter has lower attack interval, remove boon and cure condition at the same time with 20CD base (16 if traited).

Apples and oranges. The Disenchanter does almost no damage either. It’s a utility and thus takes up a utility slot, so fundamentally they only share one aspect, and that’s that they’re both happen to be Phantasms. Any comparison between them, however, is IMO flawed.

Iavra.8510:

While being great when traited, the iMage for itself is quite bad. I’m using torch in a power build right now, mainly for the condi remove and decent cd stealth (the blast on reveal does pretty good damage, too) but i rarely use iMage against non-condi builds.

Agreed, but I think that’s the point! Making the iMage direct damage output as strong as other Phants would clearly make traited Torch very OPd, and it would obviously replace all other OH weapons. I believe ANet deliberately chose to “fix” Torch using Traits, so that you get more build variety, because you’re not directly pitting Torch against Sword, Pistol, or Focus in the same set of already existing builds!

Smartly, ANet chose to avoid this “arms-race” between weapons, and chose to make Torch synergize heavily with 2 traits in order to open up completely different builds.

Furthermore, as you stated, The Prestige is also easily one of the most powerful and flexible OH abilities for Mesmers. It’s a great target-drop/break-off ability with the AE Blind/Stealth combination, but as you said it also delivers nice AE damage and an AE burn at the end. (Not to mention the Blast finisher!) When traited it even removes a condition, and can stack up some nice boons while invisible with PU.

Considering that Torch is my OH weapon of choice for both PU/Condie and PU/Shatter builds, I can’t really say it needs any major boosts at all. If it did, clearly I wouldn’t run it over other very nice OHs like Pistol or Sword. Both deliver more damage then Torch, but neither have nearly the utility of Traited Torch either!

Dietzen.6127:

Agree with the confusion duration needing to adhere to the casters condi duration.

This used to be broken but was fixed a few months ago. Any conditions your illusions inflict (including the iMage) should inherit the mesmers’s condition duration (unless that’s broke again and I wasn’t aware).

skcamow.3527:

Dietzen.6127:

Agree with the confusion duration needing to adhere to the casters condi duration.

This used to be broken but was fixed a few months ago. Any conditions your illusions inflict (including the iMage) should inherit the mesmers’s condition duration (unless that’s broke again and I wasn’t aware).

Really? Does this include the +33% confusion trait? From what I could find of information, some things counted and others didn’t, and the +33% were one of those things. But the info might very well be old.

I have some interesting information to report.

I just tested and as it turns out, your personal condition duration (from domination line/food) transfers to the iMage’s confusion duration, but it appears any specific confusion duration, such as Illusions V +33% and from perplexity runes do not transfer. I also tested stacking confusion with the traited duelist through an ethereal field and found confusion and condition duration sources applied. In that test, I checked Illusions V and perplexity separately and both worked.

In other news, I’m sad to report that WoC clones do not appear to inherit the mesmer’s condition duration, at least for bleeding (which I’m almost positive was “fixed” awhile ago). I then tested duelist bleeds via sharper images and thankfully our condition duration transfers there.

So, I believe we may have a mess on our hands again, though not as bad as it used to be. If someone could please validate these findings I would very much appreciate it.

Dietzen.6127:

skcamow.3527:

Dietzen.6127:

Agree with the confusion duration needing to adhere to the casters condi duration.

This used to be broken but was fixed a few months ago. Any conditions your illusions inflict (including the iMage) should inherit the mesmers’s condition duration (unless that’s broke again and I wasn’t aware).

Really? Does this include the +33% confusion trait? From what I could find of information, some things counted and others didn’t, and the +33% were one of those things. But the info might very well be old.

Don’t know about the +33% trait because *cough*whatawaste*cough* I don’t use it, but yes, givers weapons, power line, food all carry their condi duration over to phantasms/clones. My Poisoned Apples build has 100% condi duration and a 6 second confusion attack from iMage. Current build I’m running has iMage at 5.5.