Q:
Playstyle Question - Weapon swapping between Staff and S/P
I’ve done a lot of experimenting with the Mesmer weapons and I’m still immensely perplexed at all of these people on the forums talking about a sword/pistol Mesmer. I rarely actually see them in the game, in action, and whenever I try it myself I just don’t see it working that well. Mesmers take far too much damage. The 2 ability, while makes you invulnerable, makes you stand still doing nothing sometimes – time that could be spent making more illusions and moving around. The leap illusion barely works half the time for me. I use it, and no illusion even appears.
Hands down though, the staff is the best Mesmer weapon. I use the staff with a scepter/pistol combo. I can constantly keep range, constantly keep illusions up for shattering, and I just spam the hell out of Pistol bleeds and confusion with F1 and F2 along with the scepters 3. Scepter also gives you a block if you’re forced into melee range with someone – giving you an additional illusion. The standard scepter attack also gives you illusions.
I just don’t see why you’d ever want to be in melee with a Mesmer.
There are some powerful Melee builds with Mesmer, actually. I run one. They run a bit on the defensive side, trait wise, but they are a fair bit more dangerous than people give credit for on paper.
The main issue right now is that Sword is bugged. Some of the cooldown traits on it do not cross apply as they do with other abilities.
But if you’re going to do Sword builds, it’s usually good to go all the way, because staying in range tends to confuse the enemy due to you and the clones all being close range of each other.
I’m experimenting with a few other build workings for my melee mesmer combo right now, but if I get a good game going I’ll show it off.
As far as Staff itself, I can’t speak from experience in sPvP, I can’t really get it working effectively for me.
At first I thought staff was a ranged weapon but the more I played with it the more I realized what a great melee weapon it was.
First, to get the “bounces” from the Winds of chaos you need to be closer than 1200 range (about 600 I think).
Second, staff 4 only works if you are being actively hit, so playing keep away from a melee mob makes no sense if you are planning to use chaos armour.
Third, Chaos storm is at it’s full potentiall only if you and the mob are inside of it.
Traiting heavily down the Chaos line and the Inspiration line (for protection from the regeneration proc from the chaos line) will give you virtually endless Chaos armour if you combine your Glamour skills (and Chaos storm) with staff 2 for the chaos armour combo (using the traits reduced staff CD, and reduced Glamour skills CD) and it adds toughness and vitality to boot.
Your dps will be pretty low this way but you can easily pull 4-5 mobs (including veterans) and slowly whittle away at them all the while safe behind chaos armour and all the boons from WoC and Chaos storm.
This build also seems to meld well with a sword/OH combo as you will be in melee range most of the time.
so, i can see how you could play it more melee like that, but i dont’ think thats really an option at my level… Like i said if i am in melee range, even with chaos armor, i get completely facestomped by > 1 mob. The only way i can beat multiples is with some very kiting and blowing my heal on cooldown
To answer the sword+pistol question: You play like a thief. Don’t stand still, don’t be hit. Yes dodge roll works twice. I know that. Dodge roll is your oh crap button. You can circle strafe around most normal attacks.
Or you could just not care and face tank it. Against anything that is not immune to stun, it goes like this:
1) Drop iDuelist
2) Close in on target. Use iLeap if needed.
3) Autoattack
4) As it winds up its first noticeable attack, Blurred Frenzy
5) as Frenzy ends, Magic Bullet.
6) As Bullet ends, Signet of Dom
7) By the time that wears off, if you put traits into the sword CD talent, BF is back up. Apply it.
You have several seconds of near invincibility there. With points in the pistol CS talents, you can have MB up a few seconds after the second BF clears. You probably also had time to drop another iDuelist in there somewhere.
Obviously mobs that are immune to stun make this difficult. So you rely more on mobility again.
To answer the original question, IMO sword and staff have 0 synergy. It’s kinda sad, since Staff is our better AoE choice for DE tagging if traited properly, but that kittens sword. And sword is great for dmg and survival but is kittened if you spend more of your points around Staff’s condition damage.
The first 5 points in duelist gives you quite a lot of vigor if you have a reasonable amount of precision. If you want ludicrous levels of vigor on top there is the 10 pt major trait in Inspiration to grant vigor on shatters.
That said I’ve also never really understood sword/pistol. I prefer sword/sword paired with either staff (big boss fights) or scepter/pistol (soloing). If the iMage was better I would probably be running sword/torch all the time.
I’m always popping in and out of melee, and I’m constantly switching weapons. Staff has the jump back thing on 2, and Sword has a gap closer on 3. The vulnerabilitiy bump from Sword 1 is not to be underestimated.
I think if you’re going for a Condition build, Sword+Focus is a bit better than Sword+Pistol. Sword+Pistol is probably a bit better for 1 v 1.
A very important thing to note is that with sharper images iDuelist is very effective at stacking bleeds, which is why you see pistols in condition damage builds. Honestly I think Focus is better than Pistol for sharper images builds, but pistol is way easier to use.
In fact, I think pistol is, IMO the worst off hand a mesmer gets, Focus is way better in most cases, but it’s way harder to use, pistol is very simple and straight forward though. IDuelist provides a lot of straight forward damage that gives several chances to crit, and magic bullet is the easiest interrupt ability a mesmer has to use.
Honestly, if I’m going heavy melee, I’m going sword/sword or scepter/sword, the offhand sword adds a ton of defense.
The more I look at it, for a condition/crit build, I think eithe greatsword or scepter/focus is the best secondary weapon. Staff really works best at close range, and a condition crit build isn’t defense enough to use a sword properly imo. I’d either use scepter/focus to use iWarden for bleeds or scepter to leverage confusion effects with all that condition damage, or I’d use greatsword for extra damage at long range, and to provide lots of bleeds with it’s clone and phantasm(the GS clone I think makes more attacks than any other clones, ergo more bleeds, and the phantasm can throw bleeds on an entire group).
My problem with focus is that I want to use it with Phantasmal Fury+Sharper Images+Phantasmal Haste+Warden’s Feedback. To get Warden’s Feedback I need to pick up Vengeful Images, which is broken by Phantasmal Fury. I also need Phantasmal Healing, which breaks both Phantasmal Fury and Vengeful Images. Catch-22.
I agree that the pistol isn’t a particularly strong offhand, but it doesn’t have many weaknesses either. It’s the vanilla option.
In my experience I find that it’s generally better to pick your mesmer weapons for the utility you want as the damage isn’t different enough to base your choice on.
(edited by Effusion.4831)
Sword/pistol synergizes better with a greatsword, scepter/sword or focus syngerizes better with staff. Sword/pistol doesn’t help as a condition damage build.
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Sword/pistol synergizes better with a greatsword, scepter/sword or focus syngerizes better with staff. Sword/pistol doesn’t help as a condition damage build.
I can accept that you may not think it’s as good as other options, but it does help a condition damage build. Remember that Sharper Images stacks a bleed for every time an illusion crits, which means it rewards lots of attacks more than strong attacks. Sword clones make three attacks a rotation, which gives lot of chances for bleed, and pistol phantasms do several attacks which can stack up lots of bleeds, as well as confusion through combo fields. Those weapons are good for condition damage builds.
Anyways, I’ve been trying sword/focus as my second weapon on my build and it’s working pretty good. iWarden is not as hard to use as I thought, it’s damage is so high it doesn’t usually matter that they are stationary.
honestly condition damage does not help for a staff build, either. we do not directly put conditions on ourself. even with the bouncy trait, you may get 1-2 bleeds out of your staff and if you are lucky, MAYBE a burn.
gear for power/precision/crit damage. 3 greatsword clones will stack bleeds faster than all but 2+ iduelist (each one hits 3 times, shares your crit percentage and condition damage)
greatsword doesn’t need a second weapon honestly to synergize with it, therefore you can useanything. i do recommend the staff because of chaos storm, chaos armor, the little teleport clone thing breaks you out of roots and iWarlock gets a LOT from your power/precision/crit damage that at 60 mine are critting for up to 5k each on event targets with a lot of conditions. allows me to flip back to greatsword and spam 1200 (crit total) spatial surges and 1200-1400 damage mind stabs while they are doing their work.
i prefer to always be at range when possible and have yet to find a need for sword even when dealing with end game risen. if only the scpeter auto attack wasn’t as bad (read: slow moving) as the guardians.
You’re pretty much dead wrong. The majority of a staffs damage comes from conditions. The auto attack can put vulnerability, bleed, or burns on the foe, which means is more likely that not to put a damage dealing condition on, and staff 5 is likely to put at least 1 stack of poison on the foe. Considering the clones of the staff also add conditions(and may add extra bleed in a sharper images build), no weapon gains more from condition damage than a staff.
It is true greatsword clones can stack bleeds very vast, but sword clones are not too far behind(their attacks are a little slower, but they also stack vulnerability, and hit multiple targets which makes up for it), and iduelist is better than iBeserker for bleeds on a single target, and iwarden is the best bleed phantasm if you are good at using focus4.
Greatsword is great, but I think it gets a lot more out of a power build than a condition build.
Condition damage is the best way to get damage out of the staff.
The bounce trait + staff clones = a lot of conditions. Medium sized stacks of bleeding with good burn uptime.
Mirror image is a lot of fun for the staff (also for the trident).
The Sword+Pistol/Staff synergy doesn’t happen until level 40 when you pick up Sharper Images. Then your iDuelist becomes a bleed machine and you’ll actually benefit from the condition damage.
Until you hit 40, you can still run Sword+Pistol/Staff but gear for power instead. You’ll get more out of the Sword+Pistol combo and your iWarlock will hit like a truck.
I’ve been using Sword/Pistol + Staff since lv 8 I guess.
Ideally, I’d have 3 weapon sets on-the-go: Sword/Pistol, Scepter/Focus and Staff
But I don’t, so I preferred S/P over Sc/F for personal reasons, for I believe Sc/F to be more ‘synergetic’ with Staff.
How I play: Open with Staff, dish conditions and boons, when foes get to close range, switch to S/P and start playing like a Thief. I find it amusing.
I have used a GS sw/p build and staff sw/p build for most of my mesmer life with a condition/shatter build and there are 2 ways I initiate//end a fight.
GS :
1) Duelist
2) Stealth Decoy
3) Illusion leap while running at them and making sure you are in range
4) Illusion leap again to lock them in place
5) cry of frustration at the same time (duelist should have blown its wad by now)
6) switch to staff and hit 5
7) hit mirror images
8) hit 2 for the free chaos armor
9) mind stack switch back to sw/p and finish them off
or
start with sw/p
1) Duelist
2) immediately switch to GS
3) feedback and Beresford at the same time for confusion stacks
4) Throw the GS through bubble creating your third clone and causing more confusion
5) switch back while running toward enemy cry of frustration for more confusion
6) blurred frenzy so they take massive damage from confusion but do no damage to you
some of those fights don’t make it through a of the steps even at level 80
Posting from my phone is a bad idea with autocorrect lol Beresford is berserker
@OP:
Condition damage also doesn’t scale with the Illusionary Warlock, or the initial purple Blob of whatever that stuff is (is it made of kitten souls?) from Winds of Chaos, and Chaos Storm. Those still scale with Power.
So you’re hoping that you get some Burning off of spamming your one skill by stacking condition damage. Hoping.
Personally, I found great synergy with the staff and the one-handed sword, by treating them both like Power Weapons. I use the Sword primarily, and swap to my staff when I need to drop Chaos Storm or Chaos Armor (or chain Chaos Armor on myself via all the combo fields).
If I get a second or two of burning, great. But that alone isn’t really worth gearing for Condition Damage.
You’re pretty much dead wrong. The majority of a staffs damage comes from conditions. The auto attack can put vulnerability, bleed, or burns on the foe, which means is more likely that not to put a damage dealing condition on, and staff 5 is likely to put at least 1 stack of poison on the foe. Considering the clones of the staff also add conditions(and may add extra bleed in a sharper images build), no weapon gains more from condition damage than a staff.
It is true greatsword clones can stack bleeds very vast, but sword clones are not too far behind(their attacks are a little slower, but they also stack vulnerability, and hit multiple targets which makes up for it), and iduelist is better than iBeserker for bleeds on a single target, and iwarden is the best bleed phantasm if you are good at using focus4.
Greatsword is great, but I think it gets a lot more out of a power build than a condition build.
sword clones stack nothing when they are busying chasing that trio of risen abominations you are kiting. my first 80 was a ranger, i know full well how bad melee npc ai is in this game against a moving target. greatsword clones are ranged, and do not use projectiles (can’t be reflected by npc’s)
the initial hit from the staff auto attack hits extremely hard with a full power build, about 60% of the full greatsword auto attack. if you have the bouncy trait it can do more than greatsword auto, making any conditions it applies icing.
i’ve had the staff with elasticity stack 10 vulnerability before i saw a bleed or burn. it’s not that reliable.
At first I thought staff was a ranged weapon but the more I played with it the more I realized what a great melee weapon it was.
First, to get the “bounces” from the Winds of chaos you need to be closer than 1200 range (about 600 I think).
Second, staff 4 only works if you are being actively hit, so playing keep away from a melee mob makes no sense if you are planning to use chaos armour.
Third, Chaos storm is at it’s full potentiall only if you and the mob are inside of it.
Traiting heavily down the Chaos line and the Inspiration line (for protection from the regeneration proc from the chaos line) will give you virtually endless Chaos armour if you combine your Glamour skills (and Chaos storm) with staff 2 for the chaos armour combo (using the traits reduced staff CD, and reduced Glamour skills CD) and it adds toughness and vitality to boot.
Your dps will be pretty low this way but you can easily pull 4-5 mobs (including veterans) and slowly whittle away at them all the while safe behind chaos armour and all the boons from WoC and Chaos storm.
This build also seems to meld well with a sword/OH combo as you will be in melee range most of the time.
Yeah this is what I’ve found. For average PvE for me Staff 1 is good as a distance opener/puller, but mostly thereafter I’m nearly constantly in melee range, constantly alternating between Staff and Sword/Focus (rather than Sword/Pistol, which I think is better for bossy or 1v1 PvP type fights), and using Null Field alternating with Chaos Storm for that Chaos Armor buff.
It’s a high risk/high reward playstle. You have to time your Sword 2 and Distortion Shatter to get you out of trouble (my char is a Sylvari, so I also often use the “Take Root” ability also when I get in trouble solo – 4s invulnerability and setup for extra AoE damage).
I think Focus is a bit better for general use than Pistol, because in PvE you’re often drawn into sitautions with multiple mobs, and the Warden is just a great AoE, especially when you have the Light Field from Focus 4 on him (and also when you can use Sword 3 to leap through the field yourself).
That, combined with traited and geared Condition damage and lots of Shattering (with Confusion trait for all Shatters), I find optimal for my playstyle. There’s a little bit of burst in this type of build from the shatters, but mostly it’s a hell of a lot of DoT, and good protection.