Guild Wars 2

Autoattacks are a huge factor of sustained DPS in PvE. This class has been crippled by PvP balancing from the beginning. Because the class can burst in PvP, its abilities which are mediocre in PvE have suffered.

- Illusions without AoE protection hampers shatter specs in high aoe damage PvE content. Illusions despawn after targets die, meaning the main form of sustained damage, phatasms, have long cd’s for PvP reasons that really hamper PvE play as you can’t have a Phantasm up against different targets.

-PvE damage is entirely focused around a 3 phantasm stacking build, and this build is extremely limited, for the very reason that you only have a couple of cleaving phantasms, one that is completely stationary and doesn’t move. When the usual groups of mobs dies your phantasm ramp up is wasted as illusions are not tied to you as a caster but against the single mob it was summoned against.

- Clones are not really useful in PvE. Is it possible you could make it so in PvE only (not WvW or sPvP), clones would get back the damage they offered in beta?

- Shatters are ill designed for PvE. They are meant to be a form of aoe, but this aoe guts all your sustained damage given you needed to ramp up 3 phantasms to start doing competitive damage and the cooldown of phantasms is longer than the cooldown of mindwrack.

-Mesmers don’t have much access to boons. Signet of Inspirations relies on other people bringing boons, and the passive benefit is really bad at 10 sec cd of a proc for a random boon. The passive should be more beneficial for the average mesmer.

Yeah, mesmers can have access to boons actually, I know, but that is contingent on condition based builds taht are dead on arrival in PvE.

- Blurred Frenzy, Cry of Frustration, and the damage of our autoattacks is really bad in PvE. Relative to the autoattack numbers of thieves and guardians and warriors, our autoattack numbers are extremely weak, and this isn’t even taking a look at the absurdity of the warrior’s mainhand axe autoattack damage.

Even if you compare the mesmer to the ranger’s mainhand autoattacks, which are weaker due to the pet, the mesmer still falls behind.

As a result the mesmer has become little more than a reflection/curtain pull bot with the occasional time warp. His damage and boon contribution to groups in PvE is anemic.

I agree, Mesmer damage is almost too low for pve. You just use Mes for reflection and quickness / portal bot. Otherclasses can do everything else better than him wich is kinda sad. Same goes for pvp. Power based mes are most of the time simply portal bots.

I’d like to see a lower cast time on mantras to help the dps of mantra of pain.
I’d like to see a much no damge reduction on F1 per illusion shattered.
I’d like to see more viable traits for shatter.
I’d like to see F3 being aoe on default.
I’d like to see a damage increase in gs aa, staff aa (power) and scepter aa (power).
I’d like to see sigils working on phantasms (+5% dmg / +7% crit) aswell runes.

I find those changes appropriate. The sigil and ranged aa power dmg buff even long overdue.

Give mes somd dmg love. Please. We are even forced to play zerker in pvp to deal as much dmg as other with cele or def.

Also, Mind Spike is currently doing 10% less dmg that the tooltip claims too. Seems ANet has a vendetta against dps mesmers…

Oh Mesmer PvE thread. I agree with Anet on this one. Don’t care.

:p

Kidding. Good luck with your crusade. P.s. Cronomancer might be your savior.

OP is right about everything.

frifox.5283:

Also, Mind Spike is currently doing 10% less dmg that the tooltip claims too. Seems ANet has a vendetta against dps mesmers…

I hope not lol. I hate the idea of sword+shield so if I have to use those weapons I’ll have a bad case of the sadz.

Xyonon.3987:

I agree, Mesmer damage is almost too low for pve. You just use Mes for reflection and quickness / portal bot. Otherclasses can do everything else better than him wich is kinda sad. Same goes for pvp. Power based mes are most of the time simply portal bots.

I’d like to see a lower cast time on mantras to help the dps of mantra of pain.
I’d like to see a much no damge reduction on F1 per illusion shattered.
I’d like to see more viable traits for shatter.
I’d like to see F3 being aoe on default.
I’d like to see a damage increase in gs aa, staff aa (power) and scepter aa (power).
I’d like to see sigils working on phantasms (+5% dmg / +7% crit) aswell runes.

I find those changes appropriate. The sigil and ranged aa power dmg buff even long overdue.

Give mes somd dmg love. Please. We are even forced to play zerker in pvp to deal as much dmg as other with cele or def.

Lol. This would straight out make mesmer the most OP prof with ease. GS increased auto attack wouldn’t be required as it is already very strong with air and blood/fire procs and no damage reduction on mind wrack would mean pretty much 1 shot on almost anyone. Keep in mind that it’s 33% damage reduction per extra clone, yet deals already +/- 2-3k more damage. I think it’s pretty safe to say you would increase your burst with 20%.

I honestly find sword auto attack the only auto attack to lack damage, then yet again shouldn’t really be bothered using since you don’t wanna be close to your target to spam 1.

PvE and PvP are different stories. But even in PvP I don’t agree with you. You cannot justify the damage to be balanced with others if you count the sigils too. I don’t mind the weak aa in PvP when you play a burstmage, but mind wrack should really burst and not just tickle enemies that aren’t zerk too. Besides the obvious announcement of illusions running toward you makes this skill incredible easy to dodge. Mesmer are forced to play zerk when power, because they deal no damage otherwise. Zerk mesmer means your damage is average, but better don’t get hit as a glass"pistol". The only thing you can burst for a good junk of hp are other zerks – aka other mes / afk thieves.

I got to agree I miss the older Mesmer as well, it looked cooler too when the clones were more active. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nKx_Ukpec)

frifox.5283:

Seems ANet has a vendetta against dps mesmers…

Do not attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

Absconditus.6804:

I got to agree I miss the older Mesmer as well, it looked cooler too when the clones were more active. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nKx_Ukpec)

What on earth? What I just saw looked sublime. It looked…effective. How did we go from THAT, to what we have now? Can anyone who was around in beta shed some more insight for me into how this happened?

Xyonon.3987:

PvE and PvP are different stories. But even in PvP I don’t agree with you. You cannot justify the damage to be balanced with others if you count the sigils too. I don’t mind the weak aa in PvP when you play a burstmage, but mind wrack should really burst and not just tickle enemies that aren’t zerk too. Besides the obvious announcement of illusions running toward you makes this skill incredible easy to dodge. Mesmer are forced to play zerk when power, because they deal no damage otherwise. Zerk mesmer means your damage is average, but better don’t get hit as a glass"pistol". The only thing you can burst for a good junk of hp are other zerks – aka other mes / afk thieves.

I highly disagree with you on our “damage” in pvp. You really have to play a concerto on your keyboard to pull of some crazy bursts however I find one of the best combos is
iZerker+Mirror Blade and blink (at the same time)+1 dodge with a mind wrack…. You don’t pop the clones out so far they run toward your target. Gotta space em some or just pop them right in the targets face…

But a good mesmer can pump out easy 8k damage in 1-2s. A great mesmer can do 10-12k damage in the same amount of time.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Oh Mesmer PvE thread. I agree with Anet on this one. Don’t care.

:p

Kidding. Good luck with your crusade. P.s. Cronomancer might be your savior.

Not with shield it won’t be.

Fay.2357:

frifox.5283:

Seems ANet has a vendetta against dps mesmers…

Do not attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

Most of the time it’s incompetence, but I believe there’s at least one employee intentionally screwing with us. I don’t know how else to explain instances such as the time when iZerker didn’t hit properly and they used the “floaters” excuse, or the time illusions died whenever targets were stealthed, or the time Distortion was changed to an evade.

Then there was the time they seriously considered giving Deceptive Evasion an internal cooldown before forum complaints dissuaded them. It was all in the effort to make clone death traits easier to deal with it for other professions. In the end they resorted to make block, evade and blind work against clone deaths but also felt the need to nerf Debilitating Dissipation on top of that. This whole nonsense probably came from that same person who’s been messing with us since the beginning.

That youtube link … It made me feel sad, really. Those clones were actually strong But I have to agree with ANet – I would not like a class with so much AI damage. Shifting damage to the mesmer itself however would have been optimal, but it rather seems they simply removed the clone dmg.

jportell.2197:

I highly disagree with you on our “damage” in pvp. You really have to play a concerto on your keyboard to pull of some crazy bursts however I find one of the best combos is
iZerker+Mirror Blade and blink (at the same time)+1 dodge with a mind wrack…. You don’t pop the clones out so far they run toward your target. Gotta space em some or just pop them right in the targets face…

But a good mesmer can pump out easy 8k damage in 1-2s. A great mesmer can do 10-12k damage in the same amount of time.

So you use all your skills + your life saver (i know blink shatter deals a good junk of damage, but …) for a 8-12k spike. Great. Now you sit there – next to your target, all GS skills n’ shatter on CD, your dmg is gone, you have to wait, you can’t deal anything more significant (<- !!).

Nothing that is already hit dies from that, unless it’s zerk. And if the target is able to doge in that moment, or block only a few of those shatters (guard, engi, ranger, everyone got block, invuln), then you just became useless.

Look, I know what a mesmer is capable of in pvp, and it’s not enough for the high prize he pays.

Xyonon.3987:

That youtube link … It made me feel sad, really. Those clones were actually strong But I have to agree with ANet – I would not like a class with so much AI damage. Shifting damage to the mesmer itself however would have been optimal, but it rather seems they simply removed the clone dmg.

jportell.2197:

I highly disagree with you on our “damage” in pvp. You really have to play a concerto on your keyboard to pull of some crazy bursts however I find one of the best combos is
iZerker+Mirror Blade and blink (at the same time)+1 dodge with a mind wrack…. You don’t pop the clones out so far they run toward your target. Gotta space em some or just pop them right in the targets face…

But a good mesmer can pump out easy 8k damage in 1-2s. A great mesmer can do 10-12k damage in the same amount of time.

So you use all your skills + your life saver (i know blink shatter deals a good junk of damage, but …) for a 8-12k spike. Great. Now you sit there – next to your target, all GS skills n’ shatter on CD, your dmg is gone, you have to wait, you can’t deal anything more significant (<- !!).

Nothing that is already hit dies from that, unless it’s zerk. And if the target is able to doge in that moment, or block only a few of those shatters (guard, engi, ranger, everyone got block, invuln), then you just became useless.

Look, I know what a mesmer is capable of in pvp, and it’s not enough for the high prize he pays.

That is why you run a staff offhand? Okay you missed your shatter boo hoo. Get two staff clones and a iWarlock up you can do almost 10k damage with one warlock hit… Mesmer isn’t a one trick pony.

Or use the Sword offhand block at the right moment for that matter, either removing the remaining endurance the opponent has, as he/she dodges on the blocked message, or dealing a good amount of damage—while creating another clone ready to be bopped. You may even consider to continue by using Blurred Frenzy and some dodges on your own, then swap back to Greatsword, regaining endurance from a Energy sigil perhaps, maybe even steal some life in the process with Leeching, etc.—I agree, Mesmer isn’t a one trick pony.

As for what happened to our lovely clone AI and damage, complaints did. Just like Confusion was complained about and nerfed. Just like any nerf to pretty much any profession really. Something, players didn’t understand how to counter properly, was complained about in droves, and ArenaNet nerfed it. It’s a shame really that a part of our damage is from paper clones which dies with harsh looks. I think they could do with a bit better AI again, as well as a boost in base health.

Meanwhile, they still haven’t given us a reliable way to Poison our targets, to counter, e.g., the excessive Regeneration that Warriors have gotten with their boosts. Balance at its best through ArenaNet’s team.

Tinfoil hat; They have someone that hates Mesmers, that pulls a lot of strings.

jportell.2197:

That is why you run a staff offhand? Okay you missed your shatter boo hoo. Get two staff clones and a iWarlock up you can do almost 10k damage with one warlock hit… Mesmer isn’t a one trick pony.

That’s a really silly excuse for “kitten he’s right but I have to keep this up” …
Cool now I retread with staff 2, while attacking me the clone probably dies, if not, the 2nd one dies for sure when i retread or dodgeroll again. Until that time the enemy recharges CD too.
And btw – a mesmer that relys on iWarlock to hit is totally desperate. Especially to use that as an argument … no – just no.

Absconditus.6804:

Meanwhile, they still haven’t given us a reliable way to Poison our targets, to counter, e.g., the excessive Regeneration that Warriors have gotten with their boosts. Balance at its best through ArenaNet’s team.

True dat – proper warriors with signet almost won’t die in a 1v1. Thei neither kill you, but you can’t contest as mes against them. How about an utility skill that puts a debuff on the enemy that lasts for a few seconds. Meanwhile you MIMIC all the lifereg the enemy has ;D

Clownmug.8357:

Fay.2357:

frifox.5283:

Seems ANet has a vendetta against dps mesmers…

Do not attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

Most of the time it’s incompetence, but I believe there’s at least one employee intentionally screwing with us.

I can’t discount the possibility of this existing, but I can explain at least one of these.

Clownmug.8357:

I don’t know how else to explain instances such as the time when iZerker didn’t hit properly and they used the “floaters” excuse,

This was a combination of gross incompetence and disgusting arrogance. A certain person is awful at coding, and is responsible for a lot of the skill bugs in this game. This certain person also has two interesting qualities. 1: This person despises anyone telling them that they’re not correct, and 2: This person is usually wrong. This results in this person being foul-tempered, difficult to work with, and generally a pain in the rear.

The iZerker bug was the result of this person forming an uninformed opinion on the matter without testing it or investigating it, and was only fixed after this person was beaten on the head with a virtual mountain of testing data for 2 solid weeks.

Now, the attempted nerfs and such, that’s not a result of a particular dev having a vendetta against mesmers, but is representative of what sort of players the devs are. Unskilled players generally dislike fighting mesmers and don’t understand the mechanics. The devs are unskilled players. You can draw conclusions from this.

Please don’t derail my PvE post with a PvP debate. There are 19379276398276 threads about mesmer PvP please post in those.

Also, no insulting developers in this thread. I prefer when they have the slight chance of bothering to read my threads instead of just clicking something else because there’s a string of posts calling them incompetent/stupid/etc.

I think one solution to confusion in PvE is instead of the measly buffs they’ve given them (buffing it by 33% won’t do anything, you could buff it by 100% and it’d still be weak).

What they can do for confusion in PvE, is make it so when mobs attack you and they are confused, that damage is not applied to you, and instead a % of that damage is applied back to the mob depending on how many stacks there are.

Mesmer, Ranger, and Necromancer suffer as classes because they don’t have access to boons, but they do have access to conditions, and this change would make confusion more competitive with aegis and protection.

Boons in PvE are far more powerful than conditions because boons still work against bosses whereas conditions like weakness and blind, etc don’t work so well.

Zenith.7301:

Please don’t derail my PvE post with a PvP debate. There are 19379276398276 threads about mesmer PvP please post in those.

Most players would prefer the profession remain consistent throughout all game modes. I know I’d be a little annoyed if they only buffed autoattacks for PvE. Also, you said it yourself that the profession is crippled due to PvP balancing.

I’d rather want to see Confusion completely re-worked into one of the old, great, Guild Wars Mesmer skills, Cry of Frustration. Basically, a condition that lasts for x seconds (duration as-is now I guess with traits working as they do), that has no stacks to it, just one, but should the player(s) with Confusion on them use a skill, themselves and nearby targets suffers Daze for 1 second and takes x damage and the condition clears until re-applied. I loved CoF, I don’t really like Confusion all that much as a mechanic. I never found it interesting here. It’s always felt less tactical. Application of Confusion would need to be re-balanced as well of course.

Today I started a fractale run with my mes and after the first fractal I switched to my engineer. The sad truth was because I realized, even at fotm 50, the mesmers utility won’t nearly make up the lack of damage. I don’t know why I should go in there with my mes anymore unless just for fun. The damage is just like not even there and I feel any other class would be more useful.

I know that ANet thinks that the high amount of utility comes in cost of low damage, but there is a difference between low damage and ULTRA LOW damage. Even with 2 swordsmen and one warden our damage is below average and most of the time we won’t even keep those phants up. In PvE we are really kinda … well … trash tier.

I always thought different of the mesmer as I’ve only played the mesmer in my old days. It felt great to reflect and see some “kitten 8k crits on swordsmen” … And then you play other classes and face simple skills like engi bomb aa, war axe aa, fire ele staff 1+2, and you realize how weak you are.

I really hope in HoT we get more damge and smarter enemies so we can make use of our utility. Damage is important on EVERY CLASS, regardless of it’s other abilities. Right now I’m very unhappy with my mes, after playing 3000 hours on him it’s kinda sad …