Guild Wars 2

I don’t understand why mesmer is the one class that needs an entire group to stack 25 stacks of vulnerability to receive a similar modifier a thief has by just having poison or any condition on a target, and the same goes for warrior and elementalist.

You need 25 stacks of vulnerability for a 12.5% boost. The realistic scenario in a solo or pvp setting reduces the bonus of this minor to more likely 10 stacks at most, or a 5% boost. More than likely you’ll be looking at like 5-7 stacks on a constant uptime by yourself.

Why do thieves and elementalists get a minor that gives them a whopping 10% with easy uptime of burning/poison or any condition while the mesmer needs a dedicated group to gain full benefit from his own?

Make it 10% when a target is afflicted by vulnerability, or increase the bonus to 15-20% for the stacking version.

As it is we just have a practically inferior and highly group dependent version of what thieves, eles, and warriors get for free on their own.

I agree, the old 10% when target has vulnerability was better.

To make things different… also we have now 37% more dmg on 25stack vuln target (one of 3 reasons why Mesmer dmg skyrocket.

It should reduce your max hp to 1 to be consistent with the rest of the game.

you might want to check the other minor traits in Domination

Menaka.5092:

you might want to check the other minor traits in Domination

I did, and last I checked in PvE you’re not wanting to shatter anyways so it’s not like 3-6 stacks of vulnerability per mindwrack are great, and bosses with defiance are immune to interrupt mechanics so the dazzling trait doesn’t trigger.

Not like you even have much interrupts to keep up 20+ stacks of vulnerability at 100% uptime for a 10% damage boost (you won’t murder your damage output of phantasms just to use diversion to interrupt, sword interrupt is on a ~10 sec cd and pistol is even longer and the duration from vulnerability applied is less than that) from the minor similar to what thieves get just by autoattacking with dagger for full poison uptime or eles get perma burning on a target for their 10% as well.

This is why I hate PvP/WvW mesmers with a passion. All they base their opinions on is on a mindwrack/mind stab burst combo on targets whose health probably don’t exceed 23k hp and feel entitled to speak about mesmer damage output as if burst and sustained damage is the same thing.

Your initial post was about “a solo or pvp scenario”. In that scenario you can stack 20 vulnerability using Diversion (with Dazzling) on your target with 3 clones and IP and subsequently burst it down with Mind Wrack enjoying a 10% bonus damage from Fragility.

In PVE, applying vulnerability on the target is a group effort and other classes are arguably better than mesmer, but who cares? Everyone in the party will benefit from the vulnerability, and the mesmer will benefit 50% more (37.5% vs 25% damage increase).

Menaka.5092:

Your initial post was about “a solo or pvp scenario”. In that scenario you can stack 20 vulnerability using Diversion (with Dazzling) on your target with 3 clones and IP and subsequently burst it down with Mind Wrack enjoying a 10% bonus damage from Fragility.

In PVE, applying vulnerability on the target is a group effort and other classes are arguably better than mesmer, but who cares? Everyone in the party will benefit from the vulnerability, and the mesmer will benefit 50% more (37.5% vs 25% damage increase).

Solo OR pvp setting. Not just PvP setting. In a PvE group setting I was illustrating the amount of effort involved and group reliance to receive a 12.5% benefit while a thief or ele get 10% just using their own regular attacks, no complications.

And using dazzling, again as I’ve told you, doesn’t work in PvE with mobs that have defiance, and if you’re a phantasm build or anything non-shatter for that matter you’re not sustaining 20+ stacks of vulnerability at a 100% uptime because using Diversion in any place other than shatter pvp buils is DUMB.

Is it really that hard to comprehend. I mean saying mesmers get 37.5% versus others is so unbelievably dumb. That 25% vulnerability comes for EVERYBODY.

Mesmer has compounding power 9%+12.5% fragility. That’s 21.5% damage modifier.

Ele has 10%another 10% from water line10% in fire attunement.20% extra damage to targets below 50% health. Or a 30% damage modifier stacking on top of 25% vulnerability for kitten bonus on top of vulnerability or a 75% bonus to targets below 50% health.

Thief has 10% against a foe with conditions. 12% damage increase from initiative. 20% against foes below 50% health. 17% extra crit damage from traits. So 47% with vulnerability up, or 67% on a foe below 50% health and of course 17% extra crit damage on top of that.

I’m not even counting the far superior autoattack (aka sustained damage) and bread and butter nukes (backstab for thief, which doesn’t destroy his damage, unlike shatter killing phantasms, same goes for ele lava tomb or meteor shower).

So, yeah, please stick to WvW/pvp videos, you clearly haven’t looked at the numbers and how mesmer still ranks lowest in DPS (meaning not just gimmick pvp burst).

9% compounding power + 12.5% fragility + 20% harmonious mantras
→ 47.15% modis.

Also we got stacking ferocity.

Our modis are good as they are, we aren’t supposed to be the main damage class. Also fragility minor is ok too imo, since a) in pt you have those 25 stacks vuln and in b) in pvp you have your F3 + interrupt to get up there very fast.

Xyonon.3987:

9% compounding power + 12.5% fragility + 20% harmonious mantras
-> 47.15% modis.

Also we got stacking ferocity.

Our modis are good as they are, we aren’t supposed to be the main damage class. Also fragility minor is ok too imo, since a) in pt you have those 25 stacks vuln and in b) in pvp you have your F3 + interrupt to get up there very fast.

It’s like we live in LaLa land in these forums. You’re not keeping up 20% modifier in PvE with mantras, you’re bursting with it and then at best you can keep up 12% if you keep casting mantra of pain.

150 ferocity is also far less than 17% extra crit damage from thief.

Your whole point about main damage class is asinine. There’s no support class. Eles bring 25 might stacks and permafury to the group on top of glyph of sandstorm and earth ele. Thieves bring black powder, smoke screen and stealth skips.

It is your entire mentality that has kept out necros and rangers out of PvE meta. Damage is the most valued commodity in a game with no trinity. If as a mesmer you can’t compete in damage, you’ll always be competing with a guardian for a slot as it will still be thief/ele/ele/warrior/x.

Whoa, it’s you that’s living in Lala land. Ele hasn’t brought 25 might since PS warrior happened. Sure they do the fury thing and help with sustained vuln and burst with glyph of storms assuming not needing blind (on a 60s CD). Earth elemental is situational and a brown bear does the same job.

Thief has naturally high modifiers but hey, mesmer has better modifiers than ranger, guard, necro, possibly warrior and engy too. Though we’re not top of everything so I guess that’s your beef? We still have the second most game breaking elite atm and our base damage was buffed nicely.

We also get invuln states folded into out dps options but I guess we skip that just as we skip past the silly high reflect damage we have now if we want it, or the stupid levels of support or the instant recharge on the most powerful skipping tool in the game.

Sure Mesmer has some major failings in PvE but damage modifiers isn’t one of them, it’s the reliance on phantasms and long casts for power damage.

apharma.3741:

Whoa, it’s you that’s living in Lala land. Ele hasn’t brought 25 might since PS warrior happened. Sure they do the fury thing and help with sustained vuln and burst with glyph of storms assuming not needing blind (on a 60s CD). Earth elemental is situational and a brown bear does the same job.

Thief has naturally high modifiers but hey, mesmer has better modifiers than ranger, guard, necro, possibly warrior and engy too. Though we’re not top of everything so I guess that’s your beef? We still have the second most game breaking elite atm and our base damage was buffed nicely.

We also get invuln states folded into out dps options but I guess we skip that just as we skip past the silly high reflect damage we have now if we want it, or the stupid levels of support or the instant recharge on the most powerful skipping tool in the game.

Sure Mesmer has some major failings in PvE but damage modifiers isn’t one of them, it’s the reliance on phantasms and long casts for power damage.

The availability of warriors doesn’t erase the fact eles have fire fields with permanent uptime that the party can abuse if the warrior fails at mightstacking, or the fact that ele is still the main provider of perma fury, boss stuns via ice bow, and pretty much baseline access to field blasts and water fields.

Earth elemental is used pretty much in a large amount of lv50 fractals, and brown bear is garbage because you have to bring a ranger (bad enough) and gut the ranger’s damage as the bear autoattacks do less than a burning tick worth of damage.

Mesmer also doesn’t have better modifiers than warrior with berserker’s power, which is easy 100% uptime and his modifier on bleeding foes, and warrior base numbers for his weapons far surpass mesmer. Engineer far surpasses mesmer in damage while bringing potent utility of its own as well (and far easier vuln stacking).

I don’t want to hear about invuln states, thief pistol whip is virtually the same and warrior post-vigor nerf is the class with the most access to dodges since they forgot to nerf their precious stamina regen signet while nerfing everybody else’s endurance returns. or the fact that whirlwind has a built in evade frame in it as well.

Mesmer is bottom damage alongside necro, even post-changes. I know some of you are fine being a gimmick class that people bring just for the portals and veils, but I’d like a point in this game where people could bring more than one mesmer as they bring more eles or thieves.

But all this talk is verging off topic since a few posts ago considering the whole point is discussing how our minor trait is a more convoluted, group dependent version of what thieves and elementalists get for free through mere autoattacks.

Zenith.7301:

It is your entire mentality that has kept out necros and rangers out of PvE meta. Damage is the most valued commodity in a game with no trinity. If as a mesmer you can’t compete in damage, you’ll always be competing with a guardian for a slot as it will still be thief/ele/ele/warrior/x.

Yes, personal blame! Do it! RAAAAAGE!

Or, you know, you could just admit that single-ability or single-trait class-to-class comparisons are completely bogus and have absolutely no information you can obtain from them.

Carighan.6758:

Zenith.7301:

It is your entire mentality that has kept out necros and rangers out of PvE meta. Damage is the most valued commodity in a game with no trinity. If as a mesmer you can’t compete in damage, you’ll always be competing with a guardian for a slot as it will still be thief/ele/ele/warrior/x.

Yes, personal blame! Do it! RAAAAAGE!

Or, you know, you could just admit that single-ability or single-trait class-to-class comparisons are completely bogus and have absolutely no information you can obtain from them.

Yeah, comparing minor traits that predicate a damage boost upon the presence of a condition across classes is totally apples and oranges.

Especially when the previous version to the patch was a 10% flat when vulnerability was on the mob, just as the ele/thief versions.

Anything else, forum warrior?