Guild Wars 2

Before this patch I had been trying to find a viable sPvP condition-based build with good survivability (similar to the Immortal mesmer, or such like that). I had it, then lost it with the patch. I tweaked a few things and have come up with a decent condition based build again, and I’m wondering if 1) torment is even worth it, and 2) if this even comes close to comparing to let’s say, a shatter build, or other such A+ PvP mesmer builds.

I’m using 0/25(IV, X)/0/20(IV, VII)/25(II, V), with full runes of the undead. I’m using Sw/T and Sc/Sw as my weapons with Sigils of Earth on mainhand and sigils of energy on the offhands. Carrion amulet with a rabid jewel for my trinket. Critics welcome, help wanted!

To make life easier here’s a link to the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRArc8flwzSqHTzgGb9IyJFQn0hmx2ddlZwbXIA-TwAgyCpIaS1krJTTymsNN+YVx+jZFA

I don’t like hybrid builds. I don’t see a purpose in investing in multiple offensive stats that don’t “stack” with each other. The result is you don’t have the DPS of a “pure” build while having the same or worse survivability.

Torment is worth it. This build specifically is inferior to a Shatter build, or a pure Condition build.

I find it’d be better a 0/20/0/20/30 or a 20/30/0/20/0. With new changes, having illusion celerity but not illusionary persona is quite rare. Also, as best illusions traits are +20, having less is not worth, so or you go for 30 or you better forget about illusions line.

I’ve never like torch, less if there’s no torch trait neither prismatic understanding. Without this traits, torch has no chance competing against other OH weapons.

Also, I’d go for Rabid instead of carrion. Having some precision can make a difference with perma vigor and lots of bleedings.

Then, mesmer has better utilities than signet of domination. Go for decoy, signet of inspiration, arcane thievery… kitten for a 2s of stun, when having diversion and sword #4, is quite useless.

And finally, sigils share internal cooldown, so if one is activated, neither of both will activate until cooldown is finished.

@Embolism
I’ve been trying to find a full condition build, but all the ones I seem to come up with just aren’t really any good. I really liked the Immortal Mesmer, I tweaked it a bit to my liking, but I loved the playstyle of that. I’m trying to find a condition damage build with similar survivability, and I really can’t. The only reason I really run the hybrid is because it has better survivability than a full condition damage build. And honestly, I do pretty well with this build in hotjoins, and even do decent in tPvP. I mainly traited for surviving and confusion buffs (since it is total kitten without it these days), and it makes every clone I create explode in a deadly combination of conditions. I’d classify it as more of a shatter build than a condition damage build, because a good portion of my conditions come from death of my clones. If you haven’t tried it, give it a shot, tweak it around a bit and let me know what you think. Its really not as inferior to other builds as you may think.

@Ansau
The 25 in dueling really works well for a constant confusion uptime, so I don’t want to get rid of that. I’ve been toying with multiple utilities and the condition damage buff from SoD’s passive is really nice, and the stun can make or break teamfights if I land it on a gaurdian or ele at the right time. Also been toying with sigils, what do you think would be a better set up with those? I never liked the torch much either, but I’ve seen mesmers use it with incredible results, and been trying to create a viable build using it for a while, I’m not gonna give up on it now. This build is quite different from a stealth build I’d run, so PU wouldn’t really be something I’d want to use at least in this build. I’d save that for maybe a DPS based build, or something similar to the Immortal Mesmer utilizing a lot of stealth. I use this build for sPvP as I said before, so gear stats don’t come into play unless you were talking about trinkets. In that case, the reason I go with carrion is for the health and power bonus. iSwordsman and iMage both scale well with power (to my knowledge), and I’d rather go with more health than more armor, just as a personal preference. I’m definitely going to try out a rabid amulet tonight instead of the carrion, and let you know what I think.

To both of you, try this build out, tweak it, do whatever, and let me know if you find something along the same lines that works better for you. Always looking for new ways to improve this build, I’ve been working on it for a while!

Please explain what exactly do you mean as a condi hybrid build; i.e what do you want to do in TPvP? More condi damage in team fights and less of a close holder or good amount of condi damage and more of a close holder?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR7flwzyqnTzoGZ9IxJFRH6oec9s7dSKa9rB-TgAAzCpI+S9lrJzXyvsfB

If you would like me to explain everything I did with that let me know.

PS: I will look into it later since that is the first thing that came up in my mind reading your post.

Hybrid by definition is carrion or rampager amulet with a significant investment in power.

If you want to use sword and scepter your best bet is likely carrion amulet, shattering like a s.o.b.

Try 10-20-0-0-10 (30), sigils of energy, 2 lyssa, and 4 nightmare a base and decide for yourself whether or not you like it. I tried 30-20-10-0-10 and found it ok.

djtool.8372:

Hybrid by definition is carrion or rampager amulet with a significant investment in power.

If you want to use sword and scepter your best bet is likely carrion amulet, shattering like a s.o.b.

Try 10-20-0-0-10 (30), sigils of energy, 2 lyssa, and 4 nightmare a base and decide for yourself whether or not you like it. I tried 30-20-10-0-10 and found it ok.

Why would he be using sword scepter as condi when he could get

confusion + blind + burning + torment (3.3 damage) from scepter torch not to mention removing condis by Cleansing Conflagration with 20% reduced cooldown from torch skills?

Not trying to sound a smart kitten just wondering why would any mesmer not play with scepter and torch and spec it the way it should be spec post-patch.

If he keeps his loadout he has a scepter and he has a torch, why do they need to be grouped together?

TheKidHenry.5732:

To make life easier here’s a link to the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRArc8flwzSqHTzgGb9IyJFQn0hmx2ddlZwbXIA-TwAgyCpIaS1krJTTymsNN+YVx+jZFA

I think it looks solid and was theorycrafting something like this last week.

There’s a few things I’d change. First, I’d swap the carrion jewel for a rabid one. Toughness is more valuable than vit and precision is more valuable for bleeds. I might also take mirror heal over ether. I like reflection and it triggers your mender’s purity more often. Finally, iDefender is less usefull these days. I’d probably swap it for Decoy.

I’m using scepter/torch in a 20/20/30/0/0 and to answer the question of why they’re grouped together it is this. It’s the only way to get scepter 3 to hit anyone. The wind up is so long on it, unless you fire it from stealth, everyone knows to dodge. So the short cd from torch lets ya use scepter 3 and land it more often. On top of that, if done right, they’ll have burn, blind, confusion and bleed on them. Follow that up with scepter block and now they have torment. That’s enough for them to blow a cleanse. Rinse and repeat. It’s a fun setup that keeps you very active.

At Op. I played around with it a bit more.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR7flwzyqnTzoGZ9IxJFRH6oec9s7dSKa9rB-TgAAzCpI+S9lrJzXyvsfB

In terms of stats I think it looks solid.

So if you struggle to land scep 3 why not save your shatters to use after they’ve expended their dodges. Or use it after their dodges. I guess I just disagree with torch being tied to scepter. In a vacuum i’d rather use pistol.

Considering the op’s loadout and intentions i would think you need that torch explosion to land its burning damage I prefer closing in with torch, sword3 into 2 myself. Sounds like a solid way to open the fight as you’ll last long enough to get to use torch 4 again.

This is exactly the case. I tried scepter/torch for a while after the patch. It’s a frustrating combo that doesn’t work well. You usually need to be visible to block… On the other hand, the sword/torch combo is excellent. I use that in my current build going 4 > 3 > 3 > 2 (then mind wrack) with excellent effect.

I’ve yet to try scepter/sword, but the double block is intriguing. I assume you’d block first with the scepter, then either block or daze with your sword, and then channel confusing images (or just swap weapons at this point and start that combo series).

Another consideration here might be to go with divinity runes to have a slightly more balanced build given the weakness of condition damage.

The two players above me are right. Other mesmers told me the same thing. Its combo doesn’t work well or it is frustrating to work.

djtool.8372:

So if you struggle to land scep 3 why not save your shatters to use after they’ve expended their dodges. Or use it after their dodges. I guess I just disagree with torch being tied to scepter. In a vacuum i’d rather use pistol.

Considering the op’s loadout and intentions i would think you need that torch explosion to land its burning damage I prefer closing in with torch, sword3 into 2 myself. Sounds like a solid way to open the fight as you’ll last long enough to get to use torch 4 again.

It works perfect for what my build is. I merely answered a question to why sc/t would be grouped. For op, I’m sorry but I think sceptor, unless built to use for a specific porpose, is just awful. Paired with torch in your build, that has no cd bonus’s isn’t a good idea. I am also of the mindset of hybrids being, meh, at most everything. In tpvp or spvp, as I’m sure you know, you need to be able to take or hold points. Hybrid just can’t do it. Mesmer condition builds are not outstanding in there current state so gearing for them needs to be a priority, ie: rabid gear.
I know its a lot of critiquing and not much return here, so please take it all with a grain of salt. If you like your build and it works for you. Use it.
As I haven’t tried the build though I’ll give it a shot later this week.

Have you tried this build with a staff? I think it would have a lot more control and survivability.

I’ve tried with a staff, I like it quite a bit. But I love the Sw/T combo, and like everyone else said, its pretty much the only viable way to use a torch IMO. The reason I’ve been toying with Scepter is because of torment, seeing if it is worth it. I also love the sword as an offhand, and the double blocks can do wonders for surviving, especially since one dazes, and dazes/interrupts can be traited to do some pretty cool things too.

I’m really having a hard time with this, and toying between precision and power, as to which would be better for this type of build, using mostly condition damage with a tad of pure damage, and sicne its coming mainly from phantasms im thinking of going more into precision, since I’d be using the iSwordsman most, and the bleeds and such can stack up. I’ll post a link to what I’ve been working with (if it doesn’t suck these next few games)