Guild Wars 2

Hello all,

Just a straight forward question here (nevermind the build, just doing some experiments):
How much does Power influence Crit Damage?

Example: If I were to put 0 trait points into Power, and 30 into Precision (0-30-0-0-0), while equipped with full Berserker’s gears and using the greatsword — vs. — 20 Power and 30 Precision (20-30-0-0-0). Would there be any notable differences in terms of achieving the highest critical damage?

I’d tried using the formula on wiki, but it’s all so confusing as I don’t know which is Base Damage and such. Any help would be appreciated

Thanks!

Power has no influence over the Crit Damage stat. Crit Damage is its own stat. Power determines how hard your original hit (non-crit) would hit.

Precision has no influence over the Crit Damage stat, either. It controls how often you crit, or Crit Rate.

If you’re wondering what Power influences the end result BIG NUMBER, use the damage formulas on wiki.

kerona.3465:

Power has no influence over the Crit Damage stat. Crit Damage is its own stat. Power determines how hard your original hit (non-crit) would hit.

Precision has no influence over the Crit Damage stat, either. It controls how often you crit, or Crit Rate.

If you’re wondering what Power influences the end result BIG NUMBER, use the damage formulas on wiki.

Thanks! I kinda get the picture now. I was just wondering earlier because the Dueling trait line has both Precision and Critical Damage in it. I was curious if adding 20 points into power would somewhat effect my average Crit Damage.

On the wiki page, it states that “Critical hits have a base damage multiplier of 150% to the base damage of the attack.”

Which leads to..

“Base direct damage is given by the following equation:
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)”

Any thoughts on this?

Source:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_hit
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

This base direct damage can then be modified by the following effects:

Critical hits

Power affects critical damage in terms of critical hit damage. The critical damage stat itself is unaffected by Power.

Essentially:
+Power = harder crits
+Crit damage = harder crits

HOWEVER:
+Power != +Crit damage

(It’s like saying Toughness is the same as Vitality as they both increase your total* health [on paper].)

*: I use the word total health very casually here. What I mean to say is that they both increase your survivability and, relatively, decrease the amount of damage you take from every hit, either by the direct damage amount (Toughness) or by the percentage of health lost from your total health (Vitality).

In the end, it’s the dilemma of “attack speed vs damage” or “damage vs damage bonuses”. You’re trying to increase your DPS and trying to find the balance.

Sadly, in GW2 there isn’t that much of a stat “balance” so much as a stat-obsession. Most people run just one type of stat (see: Item Nomenclature). So it turns into what 3 stats you want… or, what purpose do you have for your class?

2 small thoughts.

1500-2k power 500 power is a 33% increace of your total power. The higher your power gets the more you need to gain same %. This mean that when you start climb towards 2k power a % increace in crit dmg and overall dmg is more worth.

Same as if you have wery high crit dmg and power the most valuable stat to gain is precision.

secondly, never trait for stats, trait for traits

/Osicat

Osicat.4139:

secondly, never trait for stats, trait for traits

/Osicat

This. I used to run 20 in Domination as the Vulnerability on Diversion was useful for making Diversion a… useful shatter in PvE, but I swapped it for 10 in Ins and Chaos so I can merge with a change in utilities I ran. It also made me more party oriented.

Specifically, I grabbed Cooldown on Manipulations and Remove Condition on Heal, but I swap the Remove Condition on Heal for grant Vigor to nearby allies on shatter (can easily keep 30s+ perma Vigor up on the whole team if used in conjunction with shatters constantly).

The main reason why I didn’t swap sooner was because I felt like I needed the Power to do more damage.

I’d be more interested to see the skill coefficients for each of our skills. I’ve seen the ones for phantasms but that’s about it. Only then will you know how much power affects your damage.

Osicat.4139:

secondly, never trait for stats, trait for traits

/Osicat

I agree with this in a lot of situations…
Except when crit-damage is involved.

It’s less important with Mesmers since Dueling 20 is in 95% of builds anyway so that 20% crit damage and 200 precision is pretty much built right into the class.
But my general rule of thumb is that percentage increase in your damage (Crit Damage in a DPS build) is a pretty valuable thing.
I have, in previous GC builds, traited to 30 in Dueling for the Crit Damage. If I were still straight GC I would do it again.

1. Skill coefficients are useful for comparing different skills.

2. Doubling your power on a low-coefficient skill will double its damage. Doubling your power on a high-coefficient skill will double its damage. No difference.

3.
average_damage =
weap *
(base_power + power_increment) *
[1 + (base_crit% + precision_increment/21) * (0.5 + base_critdamage% + critdamage%_increment)] /
armor

Plug that into a spreadsheet and fiddle with the numbers. Or just plug in your base values and run it a couple times.

Generally speaking, for raw damage, power > all, UNLESS you have a kittenton of crit damage, and you ALREADY have a ton of power. Then, 10 precision may actually be better than 10 power.

Osicat.4139:

secondly, never trait for stats, trait for traits

/Osicat

I wish I could get this through my thick skull. The major reason I run 10/30 over 20/20 is for the extra 100 precision and 10% crit dmg. Now I could get that from food, but I just love Omnomberry ghosts/pies too much. I like the utility of 20/20 a little better, but I feel like I benefit more from the higher crit chance and damage due to the lifesteal capabilites. The other benefit is w/60% base crit chance + phantasmal fury, my phantasms have 80% chance to crit. This works great w/iSwordsman and iWarlock since I usually spawn them, let them hit once then shatter. This almost guarantees a crit on that first hit, especially once I have some precision stacked.

Osicat.4139:

1500-2k power 500 power is a 33% increace of your total power. The higher your power gets the more you need to gain same %. This mean that when you start climb towards 2k power a % increace in crit dmg and overall dmg is more worth.

Is this documented anywhere on the wiki or just something you discovered in testing on your own? I don’t see anything on the power or damage pages. It would be nice to know where the sweet spot ends and you start dipping into diminishing returns.

There is no sweet spot or hard diminishing returns or softcap.

Damage formula: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

ase direct damage is given by the following equation:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Weapon damage: a uniformly distributed random number taken from within the range listed as “Weapon Strength” on the equipped weapon. The weapon damage used for a skill will typically be that of the weapon associated with that skill; utility and elite skills are typically not affected by weapon damage and use a range based on the player’s level.
Power: The current power as listed on the Hero tab.
Armor: The current armor as listed on the Hero tab. Armor is the sum of defense and Toughness.
Skill coefficient: Every skill as a unique coefficient used to calculate damage inflicted.

It’s a straightforward formula. If you double your power, you double your damage. If you increase your power from 1500 to 2000, that is a 500/1500 = 33% increase.

@skcamow:
EasyMode is pretty spot on. I think what osicat was getting at is that 1500+500 = 2000 power is a 33% increase in your damage, but 2000+500=2500 is only a 25% increase. But +10% crit damage is always going to be +10% times your crit rate, no matter how high you go.

At some point +% crit damage will yield more damage than its equivalent in extra power (which varies for traits vs different types of gear). The ratio is also highly dependent on your crit rate.

Yeah, but you need a ton of power before the marginal diminishing returns results in raw crit damage or precision alone being comparable to power. Although it’s probably a match if you have +100% crit damage and >2k power. In that situation, precision is probably as strong as raw power, maybe stronger.

Luckily, most gear does not set power against precision or crit damage for tradeoffs. It’s usually precision versus toughness or something.

Well its a balance act to get maximum effect out of your gear if you use toughntess crit dmg and power in 4 of your accesesories.

High power, and high crit dmg, now prec is the best stat and easiers to increace, this why you better off with a precision stacking sigil than a power in my oppinion.

/Osicat

Yeah makes sense, just simple math really but I see it’s very good to keep in mind when you’re putting pieces together to maximize your stats, e.g. assuming crit dmg is the same, 2500 power with 30% crit chance is probably not as effective as 2000 power with 60% crit chance.

1.5k power + 500 = 2k power
500/1500 = 33%
(33% More damage from 1,5k Power)
Add another 500 = 2,5k Power .

2,5k Power:
1000/1500 *100 = 66% (66% MOre damage from 1,5k Power).

If u hit for X Damage with 1,5k power. Then with 2,5k Power u will hit 166% X damage.

U can use 500/2000 × 100 = 25% Damage increase. But that mean u compared it from 2k damage. Not 1,5k. If with 2k Power u hit for Y damage. Then with 2,5k Power u will hit for 125% Y Damage.

And also… Power change ur Skill damage modifier. Dunno it will help the Formula or not?
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Nevhie.6079:

U can use 500/2000 × 100 = 25% Damage increase. But that mean u compared it from 2k damage. Not 1,5k. If with 2k Power u hit for Y damage. Then with 2,5k Power u will hit for 125% Y Damage.

The point is to compare the item upgrade/tradeoff you are considering with your original (baseline) configuration. A simple example is “stacking sigil?”. You’re talking +250 power or prec. You’re assuming you have your full suit of whatever normal gear you’re running — everything except the sigil you’re looking at.

So in this case you’d assume 2k or 2.3k or whatever your normal power is. Hell maybe your power is 1500 for some reason and maybe the +250 stacking sigil will be even better.

I went into Heart of the Mists earlier this morning to test my theory, and like many of you have stated, Power does influence the amount of Critical Damage.

Thanks for all the help and replies! Cheers.