(edited by blackbolt.8160)
Power PU Discussion
This PU build is significantly lacking PU.
Did you link the wrong build?
Indeed. That is a rather wierd shatter build. Unless you are completely defensive (ie zerg built), you dont need any points in inspiration. In addition to the above build lacking in PU, its lacking in power as well.
Regarding the PU builds, just take your pick: 4/4/6/0/0 (prestige PU), 2/4/6/2/0 (purity PU), 0/4/6/0/4 (bouncing PU), 0/2/6/6/0 (heavy zerg support PU), 6/2/6/0/0 (poorly synergized mantra PU), 0/2/6/0/6 (another poorly synergized shatter PU) or possibly 0/0/6/2/6 (purity PU with meh shatter).
Anything without 4 points in dueling will completely cripple an offensive power Mesmer in any situation other than zerging. As ironic as it sounds, all offensive power builds basicly rely on confusion to win. That and quick manouvering.
As ironic as it sounds, all offensive power builds basicly rely on confusion to win.
…?
As ironic as it sounds, all offensive power builds basicly rely on confusion to win.
…?
Exactly.
As ironic as it sounds, all offensive power builds basicly rely on confusion to win.
…?
Exactly.
What you said doesn’t sound ironic, it sounds either absolutely false or absolutely misleading.
I play 0/6/6/2/0 with Mender’s Purity and Harmonious Mantras. Because I’m addicted to Mantra of Concentration and having 3 charges of it per cast makes it actually worthwhile.
As ironic as it sounds, all offensive power builds basicly rely on confusion to win. That and quick manouvering.
Err, do you mean bleeding from Sharper Images?
Nemain The Eyeless · [JOY] · Tarnished Coast · http://tcwvw.com
hahaha fail. please see edited build
Your edited build needs weapons and runes and stuff.
Oh, and skills.
Nemain The Eyeless · [JOY] · Tarnished Coast · http://tcwvw.com
(edited by ASP.8093)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJARWlknpRtlpxYNcrNSqxY6UW5FSOQAl8juB-TVSEABQcEAqb/B4eAAAcIAQU9HtUCukyP20F4wFAgUAMJMC-w
and yes, don’t waste utility and trait slots for condie clear. If you do it – you play something wrong with PU mesmer
the way i see it, deceptive is better for the clone death of condi PU. this one uses direct damage
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJARWlknpRtlpxYNcrNSqxY6UW5FSOQAl8juB-TVSEABQcEAqb/B4eAAAcIAQU9HtUCukyP20F4wFAgUAMJMC-w
and yes, don’t waste utility and trait slots for condie clear. If you do it – you play something wrong with PU mesmer
I’m gonna disagree with this, you really need condi clear on every build. One good condi spike from a p/d thief / necro / warrior and you’d be as good as dead. I’d suggest either taking the torch with cleansing conflagration, or menders purity.
Oh and deceptive evasion is amazing even without clone death traits – clones can be used to soak up damage, allow a constant 3-clone heal on ether feast and generally add to the confusion in fights.
Nyiiooxxxxxxxeeeyyyyy
I’ve tried a nearly the same as Anton and it worked pretty well. I took shattered concentrations, Far-Reaching Man. and Debilitating Dissipation instead and played more an hybrid style.
Ansau – Sylvari Mesmer – Exiled Warriors [wE] – Gandara
i7 5775c @ 4.1GHz – 12GB RAM @ 2400MHz – RX 480 @ 1390/2140MHz
i7 5775c @ 4.1GHz – 12GB RAM @ 2400MHz – RX 480 @ 1390/2140MHz
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJARWlknpRtlpxYNcrNSqxY6UW5FSOQAl8juB-TVSEABQcEAqb/B4eAAAcIAQU9HtUCukyP20F4wFAgUAMJMC-w
and yes, don’t waste utility and trait slots for condie clear. If you do it – you play something wrong with PU mesmer
Yeah, you could not be more wrong.
Just taking PU doesn’t give you a free pass on condition removal. Running any build without condition removal will let any condition class melt you at will. Some builds accept this risk and do it anyway for the sake of burst or team utility, but this is not one of those cases.
All PU builds require extra condition removal. I find that an adequate amount is both cleansing conflagration and taking pDisenchanter. If you’re not getting smeared across the ground by condition classes in that build, then you’re not fighting condition classes.
To illustrate this point, you have 16k hp in that build. In my WvW build, 1 single block from my scepter will do 13k damage if allowed to tick for the full duration. This means you die.
(edited by Fay.2357)
As a Power PU mesmer, you need to have a complete different playstyle from Con PU.
Con PU is more about a passive playstyle. You just spam your illusions and start to dance till the enemy kill himself trying to get you. You use your invis all the time just to… like, literally do nothing.
Power PU is more about an aggressive playstyle. You play as any other shatter spec, but you have a great utility tool at your favor: Invisibility + the boons that mesmer doesn’t usually have + time to set up your damage + more reliable escapes that mesmer will never have besides a 90 sec skill (ok, Phase Retreat is very reliable, but some people just don’t want to go staff for the rest of their lives). You may not have all the fast shatter burst damage, but you can maintain pressure in a fight while timing your skills plus your invis to always have the advantage. You just stick on top of your enemy, pressuring him with constant damage and your shatters, while going invis to set up more pressure or just to get yourself out of pressure more easily.
Yeah, any PU build is more forgiving compared to others mesmers builds, but atm I think that it is what Mesmers need more, because being in a team that have to babysit you all the time is just lame.
Analyzing your build, I just see another Phantasm Build mixed with PU. Your Illusions will deal damage to you, while you just sit back with GS spamming 1 and 4, using blink to go even further away, and I presume you will use your torch to only get away from stick situations… Work your build around something more shatter based, not a Phantasm Build.
Also, if you’re going so deep in a amazing trait line that gives you so many utility to synergize with the playstyle you want, why don’t use it? Debilitating Dissipation isn’t just about condition, you can apply Vul and Weakness too! It’s not a bad trait line to consider as you’re going to use invisibility a lot and your enemy will kill every illusion just to find you. And get Deceptive Evasion. This trait is a must have for every build.
@inhearth
Your perception of how condition PU builds optimally play is deeply flawed, but I’ll ignore that for a moment.
Shatter and PU do not mix well. Generally shatter requires one of a couple general setups: IP in illusions or interrupts in chaos. Taking PU means that you can do neither of these things. This results in your shatters being quite weak and unimpactful. Also, delayed shatters due to pathing issues can result in some awkward unstealthing moments.
A phantasm build synergizes somewhat better with a PU build as it doesn’t lose quite as much strength as a shatter build does. You can still pick up a good number of the more important phantasm traits and get your phantasms hitting reasonably hard. That being said, the torch phantasm is horrid and you will be losing both phantasm strength and some phantasm survivability.
Those reasons are why I never run PU power. Condition traits line up beautifully with the standard 20/20/30 of PU, and so you really sacrifice nothing of import in a PU condition build. Aggressive play is still very possible, and even optimal, and it overall has more defense and survivability than a comparable power build.
@inhearth
Your perception of how condition PU builds optimally play is deeply flawed, but I’ll ignore that for a moment.
Shatter and PU do not mix well. Generally shatter requires one of a couple general setups: IP in illusions or interrupts in chaos. Taking PU means that you can do neither of these things. This results in your shatters being quite weak and unimpactful. Also, delayed shatters due to pathing issues can result in some awkward unstealthing moments.
A phantasm build synergizes somewhat better with a PU build as it doesn’t lose quite as much strength as a shatter build does. You can still pick up a good number of the more important phantasm traits and get your phantasms hitting reasonably hard. That being said, the torch phantasm is horrid and you will be losing both phantasm strength and some phantasm survivability.
Those reasons are why I never run PU power. Condition traits line up beautifully with the standard 20/20/30 of PU, and so you really sacrifice nothing of import in a PU condition build. Aggressive play is still very possible, and even optimal, and it overall has more defense and survivability than a comparable power build.
I’ve been wanting to try PU for a while now. If I ask you pyro what makes PU appealing to take it over CI? I know its obvious its boons but CI is also great and makes the gameplay rewarding due to the timing of interrupts. So would you recommend PU for me then?
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
@inhearth and @Fay
Would not a greatsword do enough damage? Blink and stealth skills can keep the opponent at range, and if they get close, there is blurred frenzy then torch stealth.
I submit that maybe deceptive evasion is necessary. I will give up the improved greatsword for it and use shatter every now and then as extra burst.
As for a phantasm variant, maybe something like this could work:
I’d have to lose the stealth from torch in favor of another phantasm from sword off hand. The reduced illusion summoning minor trait might help but not sure if it will have enough stealth to justify even getting PU anymore…
@StickerHappy
I’m currently running an interrupt build. I have problems with classes that can do so much burst up-front you can’t deal with it if you just interrupt 1-2 skills. Maybe i need to work on my kiting without stealth >_<
@Fay
Yup, I know PU will never be like Shatter, I just said that it can be played aggressively like a shatter spec if you use the traits to do so.
Idk, I don’t belive that one spec can be better than another, but different specs can exceed in some points that others can’t, and that is for any clkittenter can be the most (and only) viable build, but it has weakness, and you canalways work around that, right? So, Power PU can be the same. With Shatter, Thiefs eat you in a combo, with Power PU, you can finally make a fight, sometimes a thought one, but at least you can react….
Well, in the end it will always be more about the playstle. I play GW2 for 2 years and I don’t even know how to burst with a thief, but I know how to burst with Power PU.
Also, against a Con Pu you just have to run away, right? Like, I always thought it was like this: if you don’t fight, you don’t win and you don’t lose. Con PU doesn’t has chase capability or damage/cc to kill while someone running…
@blackbolt
Yeah, GS is enough for damage. But idk, I feel that if you want to run PU with a phantasm build, the torch will not fit right because it doesn’t provide a really good damaging phantasm…
So I’ve made a build for you…
You have cleanse and furry on phantasms. Open up with the GS rotation and keep the presure, if the enemy get close go for some sword DPS (the strip boon on AA is really good imo, and the autoatack is good too as you going to have a good amount of toughness and will be able to do some AAs) while your iZerk keeps doing the job, and abuse of invis.
Buuut as I said, the torch really feels out of the build… another offhand would be a lot better than torch even with this last build that you’ve made…
Maybe Fay has a batter feedback, but I really don’t know how it could work well….
(edited by inhearth.2038)
@inhearth and @Fay
Would not a greatsword do enough damage? Blink and stealth skills can keep the opponent at range, and if they get close, there is blurred frenzy then torch stealth.
I submit that maybe deceptive evasion is necessary. I will give up the improved greatsword for it and use shatter every now and then as extra burst.
As for a phantasm variant, maybe something like this could work:
I’d have to lose the stealth from torch in favor of another phantasm from sword off hand. The reduced illusion summoning minor trait might help but not sure if it will have enough stealth to justify even getting PU anymore…
@StickerHappy
I’m currently running an interrupt build. I have problems with classes that can do so much burst up-front you can’t deal with it if you just interrupt 1-2 skills. Maybe i need to work on my kiting without stealth >_<
Hmm. I don’t feel that in any way. Interrupting is really good, I usually waste all my interrupts at the start of the fight haha. anyway. I just can’t play anymore without CI. That’s why i am torn between trying PU or not.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
the way i see it, deceptive is better for the clone death of condi PU. this one uses direct damage
Don’t let me discourage you, play what you want, but to be forward there is no Mesmer spec without DE that’s going to be effective in PvP modes against competent players.
So that’s just blatantly false. Phantasm builds work just fine without DE. In fact, taking DE in a phantasm build is generally counterproductive due to destruction of phantasms.
I run PU power sometimes in WvW (15-20 people) and it works wonders! I use GS and sword/torch myself. You could use pistol if you wanted use phantasms more offensively, but I discourage that in WvW because necro well bomb says hi.
Basically on power PU, your role is to stay alive, veil when needed, and focus targets that aren’t in the middle of a blob. I’ve found that torch helps immensely with this because enemy gank squads are a thing, and cycling the 3 stealths+blink to get away from them is all you need to stay alive. Focus would also be good in theory, but stability and its overall bugginess and a kitten y phantasm kill it for me unless you can take the reflect traits, which I can’t the way I’ve been running PU, but thats possible I guess. I also run centaur runes for a but of extra swiftness in fights when I can’t depend on getting said swiftness from my group, so I didn’t see much of a reason to use focus, unless it gets reworked or buffed considerably in the future.
As power PU I do shatter occasionally to help burst things down, but obviously its not as strong or as often as an actual shatter spec could do, but I do gain a ton of survivability.
Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
1. Does a phantasm build need deceptive evasion?
In my experience no!!! You will be putting out enough clones to make traiting into it worthless. The only build I run DE in is shatter. As Fay said destruction of Phantasm is a real problem.
2. Does a PU build need condition clear?
Yes! a PU build needs condi clear badly, I would suggest not traiting any points into Chaos when facing a condition class in WvW. Instead, trait deep into inspiration to boost your health pool, regeneration, and gain condition clear on heal. I would also suggest picking up cleansing conflagration, phantasmal disenchanter, and even null field. Do not waste a utility slot on arcane thievery, when comparing it to null field, the
cool down is 5 seconds longer and it only cures 3 conditions. Null Field gives you a combo field, rips all boons from enemies, and cures all conditions.
3. Is Torch offhand the best in a Phantasm WvW build?
This one is highly debatable, what I see is people having a issue with torch not having a high damage phantasm attached. You have to remember that running a phantasm build, especially vs stealth classes, your phantasm attacks are not that reliable. A lot of damage will come from your attacks like sword 1 and 2 and GS 1. Torch gives you that extra stealth that allows you to reposition yourself, blast finisher, condi clear, blind, and gain vital CD time will stealthed.
4. How do you handle a thief?
Higher skilled thieves will still be able to put enough pressure on you and burst you down in PU. I have seen on here that shatter builds are thief food, but I would suggest they are the best possible way to defeat thieves. Now here me out, when speccing shatter it will be a burst battle to see who can win. You have to anticipate there attacks with Sword 2 and shatters. You have a higher chance because you will have the burst to take them down or die trying.
If you are running a Pu power build your phantasm damage is very unreliable when thieves keeps stealthing and unstealthing. I have experimented recently with a 00653 build that has had decent success but everything depends upon you pushing them out of SR to win. If they run D/P you have to cleanse the blind before trying to push them out and get lucky they aren’t dodging at the time. What to do when your facing a skilled S/D thief? Run.
(edited by Ayano.5986)
I’ve been wanting to try PU for a while now. If I ask you pyro what makes PU appealing to take it over CI? I know its obvious its boons but CI is also great and makes the gameplay rewarding due to the timing of interrupts. So would you recommend PU for me then?
They’re very different traits. CI is an offensive interrupt trait, while PU is a self-buffing defense trait. CI is inherently unreliable due to the nature of interrupts themselves being unreliable. Good luck landing interrupts on that thief or engie, and have fun stripping through stability on that asuran warrior just to get to try and figure out what’s a jump, what’s a dodge, and what’s an earth shaker. Interrupts are an inherently unreliable mechanic, and so I stay away from anything that relies on them.
PU always works. It always provides strong defense and doesn’t rely on other mechanics to make it work.
@inhearth and @Fay
Would not a greatsword do enough damage? Blink and stealth skills can keep the opponent at range, and if they get close, there is blurred frenzy then torch stealth.
Mesmer has poor damage. This is part of the class design, as our damage is low but we’re able to do damage through other mechanics, such as phantasms or shatters.
None of our weapons do high damage, especially greatsword. Mirror blade is good, but that’s about it. Trying to nuke someone down just by camping greatsword really won’t work. Anyone immobile enough to be unable to gap close to you won’t die, and anyone glassy enough to die will have enough gap closers to get on top of you. You need a primary source of damage that isn’t weapon attacks.
2. Does a PU build need condition clear?
Yes! a PU build needs condi clear badly, I would suggest not traiting any points into Chaos when facing a condition class in WvW. Instead, trait deep into inspiration to boost your health pool, regeneration, and gain condition clear on heal. I would also suggest picking up cleansing conflagration, phantasmal disenchanter, and even null field. Do not waste a utility slot on arcane thievery, when comparing it to null field, the
cool down is 5 seconds longer and it only cures 3 conditions. Null Field gives you a combo field, rips all boons from enemies, and cures all conditions.
PU is 30 points into chaos. Perhaps you meant domination? Regardless, there are multiple ways to deal with conditions. Inspiration traits are one way, but cleansing conflagration combined with strong utility cleanses is also sufficient.
3. Is Torch offhand the best in a Phantasm WvW build?
This one is highly debatable, what I see is people having a issue with torch not having a high damage phantasm attached. You have to remember that running a phantasm build, especially vs stealth classes, your phantasm attacks are not that reliable. A lot of damage will come from your attacks like sword 1 and 2 and GS 1. Torch gives you that extra stealth that allows you to reposition yourself, blast finisher, condi clear, blind, and gain vital CD time will stealthed.
Torch is a strong weapon in any PU build because of the stealth. That said, it’s absolutely a sacrifice because the phantasm is just so incredibly bad. You’re in no way going to be doing a lot of damage with greatsword and sword; greatsword doesn’t do high damage and sword requires you to be autoattacking in melee range. If you’re running a phantasm build, your offense is absolutely phantasms. Phantasms dying quickly vs multiple opponents is an inherent weakness and one of the reasons I don’t run phantasm builds while roaming.
4. How do you handle a thief?
Higher skilled thieves will still be able to put enough pressure on you and burst you down in PU. I have seen on here that shatter builds are thief food, but I would suggest they are the best possible way to defeat thieves. Now here me out, when speccing shatter it will be a burst battle to see who can win. You have to anticipate there attacks with Sword 2 and shatters. You have a higher chance because you will have the burst to take them down or die trying.
If you beat a thief with a shatter build, it means you drastically outplayed the thief. Similarly, while it’s possible for a thief to burst down a PU build, it means you got drastically outplayed by the thief. Assuming equal skill, thieves will tear apart shatter builds, and PU builds will tear apart thieves.
If you are running a Pu power build your phantasm damage is very unreliable when thieves keeps stealthing and unstealthing. I have experimented recently with a 00653 build that has had decent success but everything depends upon you pushing them out of SR to win. If they run D/P you have to cleanse the blind before trying to push them out and get lucky they aren’t dodging at the time. What to do when your facing a skilled S/D thief? Run.
Phantasms are actually extremely effective against rapidly stealthing thieves. They don’t need to retarget after a thief gets revealed, they’ll simply attack instantly. I’ve killed a lot of thieves instantly by getting up 3 sword phantasms that jumped them as they backstabbed me from stealth.
Pushing thieves out of SR isn’t necessary to win in any way, though it does help. Blinds from d/p are most easily cleansed with either persistent aoe like chaos storm or just by an autoattack on the thief. D/p builds are definitely within reason for a good fight against a shatter build though. S/d and s/p thieves are not. They require PU or phantasm builds to handle effectively.
(edited by Fay.2357)
1. You don’t understand my wording as it was probably done badly. Im stating that PU Chaos builds need extra condition clear. Than I give an alternative phantasm build options for facing condition users that doesn’t involve Chaos or PU.
2. You are completely wrong, of course phantasm are a main source of damage, but auto attacks do a huge amount of damage in phantasm builds. It is vital to be attacking with sword, and kiting away GS does do a lot of damage when you get range.
3. If you get beat by a thief in PU you were outplayed. This is a joke of a statement and makes me think you don’t know what your talking about. I don’t know what to say to this.
4. You must be basing your information against bad players, any decent thief in WvW will out sustain you in a Phantasm build and win if you don’t push them out of SR.
A “good” S/D thief is not able to be effectively handled by a PU or phantasm build.
This doesn’t apply to Condi mesmers, and this is where i think you are drawing your falsle information from.
Phantasm might be good against rapidly stealthing thieves if they stay in place and the phantasms are able to “Instantly” attack like you say. But this is never the case in WvW,thieves kite and jump around and your phantasms are left chasing and unable to attack before they re-enter stealth. This is another clear indicator you lack experience with WvW phantasm builds.
5. “Phantasms dying quickly vs multiple opponents is an inherent weakness and one of the reasons I don’t run phantasm builds while roaming.”
Here is the main problem with your post, i don’t think you play or understand phantasm WvW builds at all.
Feel free to post a video proving your points, as i feel like my video does with the points i made. Honestly though, you are way off base and your statements are blatantly wrong and I don’t see a conversation to be had. Just because you talk with authority does not make your points correct.
**"PU builds will tear apart thieves." I am willing to setup this scenario in game and coordinate to make a video proving your point. It doesn’t have to be you specifically dueling a thief, but someone PU you consider skilled. You have my tag. I see you post a lot on the forums and Idk why you wouldn’t be willing to back up your statements.
(edited by Ayano.5986)
@Ayano:
I’d love to see your definition of ‘huge’ damage from those autoattacks. My definition of ‘standard’ damage would be damage that a thief or a warrior could output with autoattacks. No Mesmer weapon can even hope to compare to those two, so I define Mesmer autoattack damage as ‘horribly low’.
I sorta fail to understand your fixation with SR. It’s a strong skill that allows the thief to heal up with SA and set up a difficult to avoid burst. However, it’s not the end of a fight unless they choose to use it to run away. It’s very possible to kill a thief between uses of SR.
Phantasms don’t get fooled by jumping and kiting. Swordsmen leap. Zerkers do a fairly long range whirl. Duelists are ranged attacks. Sure, maybe the iMage and iWarlock attacks can be avoided by walking, and the iWarden is countered by the virtue of the devs, but the strong damage phantasms will hit a kiting thief easily. Can a thief just run away? Yeah, they can, but no build can stop a thief that simply wants to run.
Being on mobile, I didn’t watch the video, but I’m not sure how you can claim that phantasms don’t die instantly against multiple opponents if they’re even halfway decent.
Shatter can match up to d/d and d/p thieves fairly well, because the builds are very similar. They have high burst and low defense options. This means it’s very possible to outburst a thief playing those. Unfortunately, nobody plays those builds anymore. All you see is s/d, s/p, and p/d.
P/d is just a pain, and I think everyone knows why. Shatter builds have no chance of pinning it down, and the generally bad condition removal of a shatter build will cause it to melt. PU condie builds should have strong condition removal and be able to fight p/d effectively, though actually killing one relies on them making a mistake.
S/d and s/p thieves are the primary factor as to why shatter Mesmer isn’t viable in tPvP currently, and all of those reasons apply in wvw as well.
S/d and s/p thieves do high cleaving damage while evading. This means that they simultaneously remove your offensive capability (illusions) while at the same time avoiding counter-attacks. They also have extremely high mobility with almost unlimited access to shadow-steps, making kiting them more or less impossible. They have an instant 1500 range daze on a 20s cd with steal, and many trait it to apply a long duration poison as well, and this means they can easily interrupt important heals/phantasm casts.
Shatter builds have very strong active defense, but very limited amounts of it. Once you’ve used up distortion, you have pretty much no recourse. Blurred frenzy can dodge a few hits, but a good thief will simply walk around blurred frenzy and then burst you. The only way for a shatter Mesmer to beat an s/x thief is to outburst them, but this is nearly impossible due to the cleaving evades I mentioned.
PU condie builds are a very different situation. Condition gear (rabid/dire) gives a lot of toughness, meaning you have far higher innate defense against thieves. You also apply a lot of condition pressure through clone explosions. Clone explosions are unique in that they are undodgeable and unblockable. This means that the cleaving strikes that destroyed all of a shatter mesmer’s offense actually create the condition mesmer’s offense for them. Since the explosions can’t be dodged, the evade portion of the cleaves has no effect. These conditions provide both damage and additional defense. Weakness and cripple make it harder for the thief to do damage, and bleed puts pressure on them.
Another significant factor is the torment block. This is an extremely hard-hitting skill that is easy to proc again due to the thief cleave. While you have to time it to land between evades, this is quite easy to do. Compare this to shatters, which require setup time that the thief destroys as they cleave. Against some thieves with low condition removal, one single round of cleave for condition load and a torment block will almost or completely kill them.
Additionally, you have PU. The higher stealth duration allows you to get a thief off your back for long enough to recover, and the aegis and protection provide a large amount of additional defense that supplements everything else. PU condition builds are really able to counter any builds in the game in a 1v1 situation. Thieves are mentioned a lot simply because of the unique contrast between PU condition and shatter.
While I don’t really play gw2 anymore, I’d be happy to come and trash whatever thief you feel like finding to pit against me. I do post a lot on the forums and I’m always willing to back up my talk, that’s why people still listen.
“I’d love to see your definition of ‘huge’ damage from those autoattacks. "
You are thinking that they do huge amount in ONE hit, i am talking about OVER TIME it adds up to be a huge amount of damage and thus VITAL to the build.
“Phantasms don’t get fooled by jumping and kiting. "
You didn’t read my post, phantasms have to be within a certain distance to attack. And are easily kited around, another example of your inexperience. Thief can kite far enough away without breaking combat to avoid the damage and kite the phantasms.
“but I’m not sure how you can claim that phantasms don’t die instantly against multiple opponents if they’re even halfway decent.”
I never made this claim. Now you are putting words into my mouth to try and prove and irrelevant point. When i quoted yoy the point was you dont PLAY the build which you admitted too. Of course phantasms get destroyed by multiple opponents.
*This is the WORST type of person, one who doesn’t try to actually read the others arguments and just makes the same points over and over. This is shown by all the condition information in the post @ me. I made 0 points about condition, you wasted your time typing it because it is completely not what I was talking about. The topic is titled Power PU.
“PU condie builds”
I will stop you there, we are not discussing PU condtion. Although I believe this is where you draw your false assumptions.You go into great depth about condition build that has NO relevance to the points I am making. ZERO.
“While I don’t really play gw2 anymore, I’d be happy to come and trash whatever thief you feel like finding to pit against me. "
Send me a message in game, we will set it up tomorrow, remember you will be playing Power Pu as this is what the thread is about and what the points I am making refer too. If you are not willing to play power PU than do not make authoritative statements about it.
(edited by Ayano.5986)
I will not be replying to your posts on this thread again. Your arguments have gone Way of base and now are wasting my time.
Please refer back to the post that outlines my points Vs. your points to understand.
My name is Ayano.5986 if you are willing to prove your statement “PU Power builds tear apart thieves”. Remember i will be recording it and posting it on the forums. I highly doubt you will do this and probably will just keep posting your irrelevant information on this thread.
chuckles
If you’d actually read the thread, you’d have seen where I talked about how I highly recommend not doing PU power for several reasons. I find PU power builds rather poor.
Of course, while PU power builds aren’t great, that doesn’t make your statement that shatter builds are your best bet to handle thieves any less amusingly false. PU condition or well played non-PU phantasm builds are the only effective ways to handle thieves, although phantasm builds are significantly riskier (see my overpowered pvp phantasm build for ideas).
At any rate, you can feel free to pm me if I ever bother logging in, and I’ll kill your thieves in a PU condition build. If I feel bored one day, I might even make a comparison video to show you how poor Mesmer autoattacks are…but I’ll probably just keep leveling my Abyss Walker in dragon nest.
You come to a power pu thread, make statements, than back down saying power is bad. My statement regarding shatter is im comparison to the topic thread power pu not condi which you so frequently pointlessly bring up. I can pm you if you ever bother logging in? Trying to back down and save credibility wont work here. If you “always” back up your talk you wouldnt back out like that. I hope ppl see this behavior for what it is, lacking any true substance. I only post again now cause you wimped out. Chuckles, nice man.
This is the Power PU build I’ve been playing
(Gear is what I have, not necessarily what’s ideal. I use cheap food most times because that way I don’t feel bad when I spend half an hour scouting or sneaky-capping an unguarded tower or doing anything else that isn’t constant fights.)
It’s pretty much the stickied OsiCat build. I really like mantras because a lot of WvW fights are uneven, and Mantras give you copious ways to get out of trouble thanks to stability, stun breaks, and condi clearing. PU makes ‘em easy to recast. I sometimes miss Ether Feast as a heal, but I value being able to get out from under an entire group’s burst more than I value sustained 1v1 performance.
Greatsword damage is, indeed, kinda crap without Sigil of Air. (I really wish they’d tune it up a bit, maybe?) I try to mix up shatter and phantasm style play and then lean more heavily on one or the other once I see an enemy react a certain way. I pretty much only use Sword #3 in point-blank range.
Nemain The Eyeless · [JOY] · Tarnished Coast · http://tcwvw.com
I’ve been wanting to try PU for a while now. If I ask you pyro what makes PU appealing to take it over CI? I know its obvious its boons but CI is also great and makes the gameplay rewarding due to the timing of interrupts. So would you recommend PU for me then?
They’re very different traits. CI is an offensive interrupt trait, while PU is a self-buffing defense trait. CI is inherently unreliable due to the nature of interrupts themselves being unreliable. Good luck landing interrupts on that thief or engie, and have fun stripping through stability on that asuran warrior just to get to try and figure out what’s a jump, what’s a dodge, and what’s an earth shaker. Interrupts are an inherently unreliable mechanic, and so I stay away from anything that relies on them.
PU always works. It always provides strong defense and doesn’t rely on other mechanics to make it work.
what if I’m really good at interrupting, would PU still be a better choice? I mean I’ve never tried PU that’s why Im curious.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
I’ve been wanting to try PU for a while now. If I ask you pyro what makes PU appealing to take it over CI? I know its obvious its boons but CI is also great and makes the gameplay rewarding due to the timing of interrupts. So would you recommend PU for me then?
They’re very different traits. CI is an offensive interrupt trait, while PU is a self-buffing defense trait. CI is inherently unreliable due to the nature of interrupts themselves being unreliable. Good luck landing interrupts on that thief or engie, and have fun stripping through stability on that asuran warrior just to get to try and figure out what’s a jump, what’s a dodge, and what’s an earth shaker. Interrupts are an inherently unreliable mechanic, and so I stay away from anything that relies on them.
PU always works. It always provides strong defense and doesn’t rely on other mechanics to make it work.
what if I’m really good at interrupting, would PU still be a better choice? I mean I’ve never tried PU that’s why Im curious.
So if we assume that you’re not worried about all the inherent problems with interrupts, we just come to a case of different, not necessarily better.
Do you want to survive a 1v4? CI isn’t going to make that happen, but PU might. Do you want to load up a nasty lockdown for your thief to jump on someone? PU isn’t going to help, but CI just might. They’re different.
I’ve experimented in pug PVP with this build:
I found the survivability to be alright, and the damage to be steady. So far the classess i have problems with are:
1. Burst thieves. I usually kite them with my cloaks, they go down pretty fast. I’d say is a 50-50.
2. Tanky warriors or guardians. This is where its important to stack might. The good news is they have a hard time taking me down as well.
I’m pretty happy with the build. The clone generation is pretty good as it is with the 4 second cooldown on mirror blade, and i have no problems with condi cleanse.
the way i see it, deceptive is better for the clone death of condi PU. this one uses direct damage
Don’t let me discourage you, play what you want, but to be forward there is no Mesmer spec without DE that’s going to be effective in PvP modes against competent players.
So that’s just blatantly false. Phantasm builds work just fine without DE. In fact, taking DE in a phantasm build is generally counterproductive due to destruction of phantasms.
Not only are phantasm builds simply mediocre right now in PvP modes, but no competent player of equal skill is going to lose to one without Deceptive Evasion. You’ll have absolutely no defense outside of a stealth skill or two. Even power PU phantasm specs without DE aren’t going to be efficient in killing a player with a good build.
Please spec (any build you want) without DE, then go into WvW and duel any other profession with a decent build and good player behind it, and record your win.
Have fun, I called it overpowered for a reason.
the way i see it, deceptive is better for the clone death of condi PU. this one uses direct damage
Don’t let me discourage you, play what you want, but to be forward there is no Mesmer spec without DE that’s going to be effective in PvP modes against competent players.
So that’s just blatantly false. Phantasm builds work just fine without DE. In fact, taking DE in a phantasm build is generally counterproductive due to destruction of phantasms.
Not only are phantasm builds simply mediocre right now in PvP modes, but no competent player of equal skill is going to lose to one without Deceptive Evasion. You’ll have absolutely no defense outside of a stealth skill or two. Even power PU phantasm specs without DE aren’t going to be efficient in killing a player with a good build.
Please spec (any build you want) without DE, then go into WvW and duel any other profession with a decent build and good player behind it, and record your win.
Have fun, I called it overpowered for a reason.
I just randomly saw this linked in another thread. Sure it uses focus instead of pistol, but I’m not sure if having pistol would make it any stronger, but I’m not really sure.
Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
I just randomly saw this linked in another thread. Sure it uses focus instead of pistol, but I’m not sure if having pistol would make it any stronger, but I’m not really sure.
I can’t say I like the build, but on top of that I think the mesmer is playing way too cautiously here. For example, they’re throwing away a ton of damage output by overkiting and not letting Sword #4 and Scepter #2 do their work.
Also, I do think Pistol would help here since it has a much, much easier time tracking moving targets. Warden is pretty much trash outside of PvE.
Nemain The Eyeless · [JOY] · Tarnished Coast · http://tcwvw.com
I just randomly saw this linked in another thread. Sure it uses focus instead of pistol, but I’m not sure if having pistol would make it any stronger, but I’m not really sure.
I can’t say I like the build, but on top of that I think the mesmer is playing way too cautiously here. For example, they’re throwing away a ton of damage output by overkiting and not letting Sword #4 and Scepter #2 do their work.
Also, I do think Pistol would help here since it has a much, much easier time tracking moving targets. Warden is pretty much trash outside of PvE.
Yeah that makes sense. I havent tried a phantasm build outside of PvE before but I might try it just to see how it does. And yeah I just saw that link in a thread about profession balance where a ranger is whining about how much mesmers whine lol.
Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..