Guild Wars 2

Hmm… maybe I’m not searching far enough but I don’t think people are talking about the other kind of PU. What do people think of the PU power mesmer after the patch comes out?

Condition PU mesmers have been hit significantly. First and foremost, the chance of getting defensive boons are about 60%. Getting a specific defensive boon is now 20% thanks to the addition of might and swiftness. Second, the clone death traits (dissipations) have been hit pretty hard and I understand from what I read that much of the condition damage mesmers inflict lie on those clone deaths.

But while people debate furiously about the PU nerf, I haven’t seen much talk or any talk about those who use power PU.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8ansISZaWsGOqB3aGJ1YMdMX/CJHIgS+R3A-TJBBABA8EAKrMQAXEgB3fAA

This is an example of the power PU that I’m talking about. Basically, it’s PU but more invested in power. While clone deaths may not mean much to a power PU, maybe the added might and swiftness give the power PU a new concoctive taste. Swiftness gives mesmers the ability to run away if the PU fight doesn’t go well and might may give us more damage. Your thoughts?

I guess power PU options don’t get much attention ‘cause they simply don’t have the same ability to hide in stealth like the condition variation. Condition PU can allow their clones to do condition damage while they stay hidden, but the power version simply can’t do this and has to actively apply damage, which means stealthing is a net loss damage wise.

Maybe a phantasm version but then you won’t get all the good phantasm traits, and damage takes a nerf that way.

I played a power PU version for a few weeks a few months ago, and while the play style is more fun, it is far less effective. That is probably why you don’t hear too much about it, it is simply far less popular.

Anyhow, I see the power version as getting a bit more offense, a bit less defense and the bleed nerf on DD to be irrelevant.

This is the build I use except with Arcane thievery, berserker amulet, and with traveler runes. I agree, this won’t be a nerf to this particular build. Granted the might and swiftness aren’t all that great, but regardless you aren’t going to notice too much of a difference. I may actually do away with traveler runes because of the swiftness. But we will have to see.

dandamanno.4136:

I guess power PU options don’t get much attention ‘cause they simply don’t have the same ability to hide in stealth like the condition variation. Condition PU can allow their clones to do condition damage while they stay hidden, but the power version simply can’t do this and has to actively apply damage, which means stealthing is a net loss damage wise

Maybe a phantasm version but then you won’t get all the good phantasm traits, and damage takes a nerf that way.

I played a power PU version for a few weeks a few months ago, and while the play style is more fun, it is far less effective. That is probably why you don’t hear too much about it, it is simply far less popular.

Anyhow, I see the power version as getting a bit more offense, a bit less defense and the bleed nerf on DD to be irrelevant.

This is a phantasm build and you do take the phantasm traits. Interrupting to get might is the key to this build otherwise your damage is going to be pretty crappy. It’s also easy to hide in stealth when your phantasms are out or just summon them from stealth. Although again you need to time interrupts well which is why I take arcane thievery to steal stability when I need to.

Edit…. I just noticed the linked build does not take bountiful interruption. You need to run this or you are really missing out.

Also, we haven’t really seen what the might and swiftness stacks/duration will be. (have we?)

If it’s 1 stack of might for 5 seconds, and/or swiftness for 5 seconds then this is really just a total nerf.

Andraus.3874:

dandamanno.4136:

I guess power PU options don’t get much attention ‘cause they simply don’t have the same ability to hide in stealth like the condition variation. Condition PU can allow their clones to do condition damage while they stay hidden, but the power version simply can’t do this and has to actively apply damage, which means stealthing is a net loss damage wise.

Maybe a phantasm version but then you won’t get all the good phantasm traits, and damage takes a nerf that way.

I played a power PU version for a few weeks a few months ago, and while the play style is more fun, it is far less effective. That is probably why you don’t hear too much about it, it is simply far less popular.

Anyhow, I see the power version as getting a bit more offense, a bit less defense and the bleed nerf on DD to be irrelevant.

This is a phantasm build and you do take the phantasm traits. Interrupting to get might is the key to this build otherwise your damage is going to be pretty crappy. It’s also easy to hide in stealth when your phantasms are out or just summon them from stealth. Although again you need to time interrupts well which is why I take arcane thievery to steal stability when I need to.

Without IC, Phantasmal Strength, and compounding power it is missing alot of damage modifiers, but ok, I get it.

dandamanno.4136:

Also, we haven’t really seen what the might and swiftness stacks/duration will be. (have we?)

If it’s 1 stack of might for 5 seconds, and/or swiftness for 5 seconds then this is really just a total nerf.

Yeah I’m very curious about this as well.

Please remove the might from PU before that patch comes live.

I play (a different variant of) power PU and I too am waiting to see how much might/swiftness we are going to get…. Seriously though diluting the defensive utility of PU really puts a cramp in my build cause I never need might or swiftness…

It better be at least 5 stacks (175 pow/conditdmg) if they even plan on making it usuable at all… I bet it will end up as 3….

I think the sword 3 buff cancels out the pu nerf for me as power pu. I still think condi pu is better off because secpter AA effectively mean condi mesmers do not need bleed anymore . The extra bounce from staff clone AA more than make up for clone death nerf imo.

Mogar.9216:

I think the sword 3 buff cancels out the pu nerf for me as power pu. I still think condi pu is better off because secpter AA effectively mean condi mesmers do not need bleed anymore . The extra bounce from staff clone AA more than make up for clone death nerf imo.

Why do that? Condit PU can have torment/poison or torment/bleed for more damage. I’m certain they already out-damage pow PU. The torment and whatever stacks of might are just the icing on the cake. :/

blakdoxa.7520:

Mogar.9216:

I think the sword 3 buff cancels out the pu nerf for me as power pu. I still think condi pu is better off because secpter AA effectively mean condi mesmers do not need bleed anymore . The extra bounce from staff clone AA more than make up for clone death nerf imo.

Why do that? Condit PU can have torment/poison or torment/bleed for more damage. I’m certain they already out-damage pow PU. The torment and whatever stacks of might are just the icing on the cake. :/

I’m not saying don’t use bleed. I’m saying they do not need to rely on bleed as a main source of damage anymore since you can now consistently keep torment on your enemy as well as confusion .

This is the power PU phantasm build I use today. It’s really fun for me for roaming in WvW.

The PU change is not a huge deal – a little less defense and a little more might/swiftness.

The buffs on scepter and GS #3 skill seems like they will more than make up for the loss. Net buff as far as I can see.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAR7ansISZa2oGupB3aGJ1IM996LJHCK5XIA-T1iIABkt/QPKp+6KA4n6DFqCjOKT2RpAAPEgF0IsluA6UCGAABgV+chLchrzCBYeBA-w

This is my power PU at the moment (http://goo.gl/O6GknI) and, as you can see, I’m running Knight + Zerk which means I have “enough” defense, so the changes on PU won’t affect me so much and could actually help me depending on the stacks of might it’ll give us, swiftness though won’t be really useful because of my Traveler Runes.

I’ve seen dropping traveler/speed runes for the PU swiftness mentioned a few times now. This doesn’t add up for me.

The PU swiftness is only 3 sec long with a 1/5 chance of getting it. So you’re running to your next fight in WvW or sPvP popping all your stealth for the chance of getting 3 sec swiftness, and when you do get into a fight all of your stealth skills are in cd (i.e no PU). Pity as it would be nice to try other rune sets, but I think I’ll stay with traveller’s.

Seriously, Im a massive mesmer player and I play lots of condi pu builds, and here’s my thoughts:

Couldn’t give a kitten , I am very slow as condi pu, and need the addition swiftness boost. the might will also grant additional condi dmg, so that is also helpful. Seriously, stop QQing, we are getting a massive scepter buff, now scepter clone auto spam will be lethal.

dandamanno.4136:

I guess power PU options don’t get much attention ‘cause they simply don’t have the same ability to hide in stealth like the condition variation. Condition PU can allow their clones to do condition damage while they stay hidden, but the power version simply can’t do this and has to actively apply damage, which means stealthing is a net loss damage wise.

Maybe a phantasm version but then you won’t get all the good phantasm traits, and damage takes a nerf that way.

I played a power PU version for a few weeks a few months ago, and while the play style is more fun, it is far less effective. That is probably why you don’t hear too much about it, it is simply far less popular.

Anyhow, I see the power version as getting a bit more offense, a bit less defense and the bleed nerf on DD to be irrelevant.

Um, wrong. Try a 4/4/6/0/0 zerker or soldier pu build. Bring out your phants when you are in stealth, they will be doing masses amounts of damage while the enemy can not hit you.

Furthermore, this change isn’t really that big, so its nothing for pu condi/power to yay or nay about.

It will be weaker, particularly if you’re running it in WvW with traveler runes (swiftness then pointless) and it’s 1 dinky stack of might for 5s.

The defense of power PU I’ve always clung to in WvW is that 1) most players run even trashier condi builds 2) maybe mesmers should have a power build with some sustain? The way the traiting is setup now, you can’t get any sort of boon sustain with a mesmer unless you do a split in chaos and inspiration that doesn’t make much sense and leaves you with pointless GM trait options…basically a phantasm AI build in all but name only.

I wish there were better options in adapt chaos and BD was frankly a much better GM trait.

Being using a power PU (http://goo.gl/XVeVnN) for quite a lot. I expect some nerfs, as I also run clone death traits, but I won’t see a huge drop.

Also I’ll try 0/4/6/0/4 with IE, but I might not see huge drops, as I’ll lose vulnerability stacks and phantasm damage.

Henrik.7560:

dandamanno.4136:

I guess power PU options don’t get much attention ‘cause they simply don’t have the same ability to hide in stealth like the condition variation. Condition PU can allow their clones to do condition damage while they stay hidden, but the power version simply can’t do this and has to actively apply damage, which means stealthing is a net loss damage wise.

Maybe a phantasm version but then you won’t get all the good phantasm traits, and damage takes a nerf that way.

I played a power PU version for a few weeks a few months ago, and while the play style is more fun, it is far less effective. That is probably why you don’t hear too much about it, it is simply far less popular.

Anyhow, I see the power version as getting a bit more offense, a bit less defense and the bleed nerf on DD to be irrelevant.

Um, wrong. Try a 4/4/6/0/0 zerker or soldier pu build. Bring out your phants when you are in stealth, they will be doing masses amounts of damage while the enemy can not hit you.

Furthermore, this change isn’t really that big, so its nothing for pu condi/power to yay or nay about.

Of course I used the 44600 build with power PU. And it is less effective than a condi PU due to gearing and AoE conditions that actually have some oomph to them. With berzerker you can do good damage but it will be about 20-25% less damage without the phantasm traits I mentioned.

My point was there is a reason people complain about condi PU and not power PU. And the reason is because of trait spread the power PU build is more self limited (some might say balanced) compared to the condition version. You get PU for added defense, but give up really strong damage modifier traits.

Anet inadvertently nerfed power PU, in an effort to limit PU condi qq’ing because they wanted to add more torment. That’s what has happened.

I would think this nerf hurts PPU much more than it does CPU, mainly because PPU needs PU for the defensive boons more than Conditions variants do.

4s of stealth with 1boon per s

5 boons to pick from

we aren’t sure at this time if anet has made all the boons equally random, or some more “equal” than others. testing will have to be done after the patch to see if everything is working correctly or not.

Basicly the nerf ends up meaning that everyone gets less defense and Anet thinks mesmers will Love more swiftness and that everyone loves might.

CPU will be a little less forgiving but still hearty enough to let even bad players skate by with some luck.

PPU will also be less forgiving which is bad because this was already the less forgiving of the two to begin with.

there’s now a chance you wont get regen or prot or aegis when you want/need it in a fight. so there is now a greater chance of that 20k Warrior GS connecting and destroying your face.

Vague Memory.2817:

Anet inadvertently nerfed power PU, in an effort to limit PU condi qq’ing because they wanted to add more torment. That’s what has happened.

This all the way.

Swish.2463:

I would think this nerf hurts PPU much more than it does CPU, mainly because PPU needs PU for the defensive boons more than Conditions variants do.

4s of stealth with 1boon per s

5 boons to pick from

we aren’t sure at this time if anet has made all the boons equally random, or some more “equal” than others. testing will have to be done after the patch to see if everything is working correctly or not.

Basicly the nerf ends up meaning that everyone gets less defense and Anet thinks mesmers will Love more swiftness and that everyone loves might.

CPU will be a little less forgiving but still hearty enough to let even bad players skate by with some luck.

PPU will also be less forgiving which is bad because this was already the less forgiving of the two to begin with.

there’s now a chance you wont get regen or prot or aegis when you want/need it in a fight. so there is now a greater chance of that 20k Warrior GS connecting and destroying your face.

CPU allows room for mistakes due to how tough it already is combined with stealth. PPU (being the much more active playstyle) is less forgiving..and will be even more so after the patch due to the might/swiftness screwing with PU.

I play a slight PPU variant that attempts to stack on as much survivability as I can… I should be able to survive but I’ll be relying less on PU and more on (post-nerf) Chaos Armor…

I don’t think that the change to PU on its own will actually hit power PU builds harder than condi PU builds. However, condi PU builds are simply stronger than power PU builds and therefore have an easier time dealing with the nerf. Additionally, the condi PU builds will gain some form of compensation through the Scepter change. There are no significant improvements for power PU builds unless you count IE for GS. I doubt this will be enough, though.

Xaylin.1860:

There are no significant improvements for power PU builds unless you count IE for GS. I doubt this will be enough, though.

I don’t agree with that last part. There are lots of goodies for power oriented builds such as the iLeap fix, the boost to GS #3, and the offensive Mantras becoming AoE. All of these have potential uses for PPU builds as well.

I agree that PPU takes a bigger defensive hit for sure, but that’s just the nature of Power vs. Condie and has a lot to do with issues outside of the PU nerf. I think PU will still be worth taking for a Power build, and certainly for a Condie build, but it won’t be quite as obvious a choice as before.

That is actually good for build diversity. You can’t always only buff everything, sometimes it’s easier and more effective to nerf OPd things, and I agree with this nerf; as long as it’s tied to boosts to weaker aspects of the profession, and clearly it is. I think we’ll be seeing more use of non-PU Condie builds, more people using Power Shatter, Mantra-focused builds, and maybe even Condie Shatter.

I’m not convinced that MtD is worth it yet, but equally I’m not convinced it’s still as worthless as it was either. It has the “potential” to do a lot more damage overall then IP can provide a power shatter build, and you get to be a lot tougher in such a build too. Of course IP has a lot of utility aspects too, so we’ll just have to see how this pans out. In competitive play it’s probably not that great, but in sPvP and WvW it could provide a refreshing build alternative.

Xaylin.1860:

There are no significant improvements for power PU builds unless you count IE for GS. I doubt this will be enough, though.

IE already works and has worked for the longest time on GS.. i have no idea why people dont already know this..

So no, you can’t count IE for GS on a PPU.

Swish.2463:

IE already works and has worked for the longest time on GS.. i have no idea why people dont already know this..

So no, you can’t count IE for GS on a PPU.

Jeez… you’re pretty cranky lately. No reason to get hooked up on one small part of an argument which still holds true.

Yes, you are right about GS. My sincere apologies. I guess I was a bit tired since I’m pretty aware of the ways IE is bugged right now. I was actually thinking about my old power PU build which used Sw/T and Staff and not GS.

Windwalker.7421:

I don’t agree with that last part. There are lots of goodies for power oriented builds such as the iLeap fix, the boost to GS #3, and the offensive Mantras becoming AoE. All of these have potential uses for PPU builds as well.

As you said it yourself, the change to iLeap is more of a fix rather than an improvement. It basically reinstates the status pre Clone fix (unless they bug something… again) which made this skill unbearably unreliable. It is not like power PU builds could compete with condi PU builds back then. They won’t now. I believe one of the main reasons is because of MH Sword having taken such a hit in the past.

GS#3 is nice for ranged power builds but not necessarily specifically for power PU builds. It’s similar with offensive Mantras. Which kind of power PU builds would actually benefit from them? Most builds might pick the defensive or supportive ones. But not really the offensive ones.

Windwalker.7421:

That is actually good for build diversity. You can’t always only buff everything, sometimes it’s easier and more effective to nerf OPd things, and I agree with this nerf.

Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not asking for buffs for power PU builds. I’m also totally fine with the PU change (well… not so much with that Might part …). But Mesmers could need other meaningful defensive capabilities outside of stealth. People can’t expect Mesmers to fight straight forward – probably not the right word for Mesmers – when their defenses are just not potent enough without stealth.