Guild Wars 2

Hi! What are pros and cons of power vs condi build in PvP and WvW? I like them both: condi Scepter/Torch + Staf and Power GS + Staf or Sw/x. I just can’t decide … Want to sit in ONE build not changing it every match lol.
I’m not yet lvl 80 btw.
And which one do you think can be more effective: PU power or PU condition build?

Power is burstier (you can 100-0 most glass cannon)
Condi is less bursty but more defensive
Power is meta
Condi is still fairly effective

I used to play Power PU a lot and I loved the surprised factor to burst from stealth, but is just effective on 1v1 fights, PU condi you almost wont lose 1v1 and a 2v1 even 3v1 you have a good chance, because you will kill your opponent over time I’ts also hilarious to watch your opponent trying to flee and dying on conditions (don’t they know the more they run more dmg they take?? LOL). For PvP either Power or Condi are good, for WvW Condi is a lot more reliable especially for surviving zerg bombs.

condi is bad for pvp because it’s weak in 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 fights. It’s great when you are fighting total noobs and win a 1 v 2 or 1 v 3 but you are not going to get away with that as you fight better opponents.
in general mesmer is not a good wear them down class because you will lose the point as you stealth . DD ele does it much better.

Go full berserkers, and signets. Then with a Sword/Sword and Scepter/Torch combo, you’ll tear them up.

With the torch, decoy, and Mass invisibility you have 20 seconds of Invisibilty which gives you sustained boons

Every time you daze, you stun. Every signet will give you distortion. Every evasion blinds the enemy and damages them. Blindness also confuses them slowing their cooldowns.
Some people use pistol and not torch, but I feel the torch has greater overall synergy.
Once you have them blinded and confused, Go to town with the swords and they’ll go down in Seconds.

So pick the traits that give you clones when you dodge, blinds them when you block, and gives you signet distortion if using pistol, or invisibility boons if using torch.

Have fun with the power precision Mesmer Assassin.

Mogar.9216:

condi is bad for pvp because it’s weak in 2 v 2

Yeah, that’s not true.

Mogar.9216:

or 3 v 3 fights.

That’s closer to true.

Mogar.9216:

in general mesmer is not a good wear them down class because you will lose the point as you stealth .

There are plenty of folks who’ve been trying condi mes in higher-tier pvp and having success. The general statement is that using stealth is a situational tradeoff of breathing space for point control. While the better pvpers among them have been eschewing PU for that reason, they seem to do just fine defensively with the 3s from decoy and 3s from The Prestige, and fight for points just fine.

Mogar.9216:

DD ele does it much better.

We’re not in the ele forums, we’re in the mesmer forums, where people who want to play mesmers tend to come. Maybe you got lost?

Sifu.9745:

Hi! What are pros and cons of power vs condi build in PvP and WvW? I like them both: condi Scepter/Torch + Staf and Power GS + Staf or Sw/x. I just can’t decide … Want to sit in ONE build not changing it every match lol.
I’m not yet lvl 80 btw.
And which one do you think can be more effective: PU power or PU condition build?

Our condi application gives moderate pressure at most and with Torch instead of pistol, you’ll be dishing out even less pressure while decapping your own points. The way to go if you’re doing condi in pvp is more of a condi shatter support role. I main one that uses Temporal Enchanter which has excellent sustain and team support. It’s the closest thing to a cele dd ele that I think Mesmer can get.

In terms of dps, there’s lots of builds you can do with a zerk/marauder amulet, and I mean lots. Boon share, signet shatter, PU shatter lock, pure interrupt/lockdown, etc etc. My current favorite dps build is a glamour one actually. Great zerk roamer that can support the team as well.

I don’t wvw so I’ll refrain from giving you advice there.

Yeah, with torch you sacrifice DPS for control. Many any
More stacks of confusion

Derenek.8931:

With the torch, decoy, and Mass invisibility you have 20 seconds of Invisibilty which gives you sustained boons

As another poster noted, the extra invisibility isn’t all that great in sPvP. It’s pretty boss in WvW though. The “sustained boons” aren’t so great though, especially compared to what you can get from CI or BD, the direct competitors to Prismatic Understanding in the Chaos line.

Derenek.8931:

Blindness also confuses them slowing their cooldowns.

Wut.

Derenek.8931:

Some people use pistol and not torch, but I feel the torch has greater overall synergy.

You’re presenting a choice between Torch+Chaos line and Pistol+Dueling line for a zerker crit build. There’s no contest that Dueling has greater synergy with the berserker’s than Chaos, so Pistol has much better “overall synergy”.

Derenek.8931:

and gives you signet distortion if using pistol

Wut.

Domination dueling illusions for Pistol, sacrifice invisibility, gain distortion
Or
Chaos dueling Illusions For torch, lose distortion gain invisibility

Derenek.8931:

Many any
More stacks of confusion

1 stack of confusion on a target from the blind, on about a 16s cooldown if you spend the entire 6s stealthed (which makes your blind+confusion kind of pointless, since you’re not fighting while they’re up).

Also, you’re a berserker build. Your confusion damage is turrible, so it’s really not good control.

Derenek.8931:

Domination dueling illusions for Pistol, sacrifice invisibility, gain distortion
Or
Chaos dueling Illusions For torch, lose distortion gain invisibility

Unfortunately both distorsion and invisibility make you decap…

It’s for the sake of slowing them. Confusion isn’t for the damage, it’s for the control. DPS is important, but controlling the flow of battle is just as important

Also, use sigil of mischief. It adds a free blind

The main benefit to playing Condition Mesmer in PvP is people tend to expect Power Mesmers, so there’s a slight surprise factor. Other than that Condition Mesmers are pretty selfish, another class can do constant pressure better and you’re not contributing the Mesmer’s famed burst; and being survivable isn’t a huge boon when enemies can afford to ignore you and focus on your allies first.

Derenek.8931:

It’s for the sake of slowing them. Confusion isn’t for the damage, it’s for the control. DPS is important, but controlling the flow of battle is just as important

I really feel like you’re trolling.
Damage is the ONLY control that confusion provides. If your confusion doesn’t do much damage when the target attacks, then the target won’t choose not to attack. If your confusion does a lot of damage, then it becomes a form of soft control, which the enemy can either choose to ignore and get punished for it, or choose to voluntarily slow their actions.
Your berserker build has 0 condition damage, and the confusion via Ineptitude is just a single stack. It is virtually impossible for that confusion application to convince a player with any kind of experience to voluntarily restrain his attacks, and so provides no control whatsoever.

Blind is good, but confusion in your build does diddly squat.

BD and CI are way more fun than PU.

BD is also extremely useful – can stab stomp or res using F1 saving things like F4 for other situations.

When a Mesmer confuses you, don’t you notice your screen turn pink and everything slow down?

Derenek.8931:

It’s for the sake of slowing them. Confusion isn’t for the damage, it’s for the control. DPS is important, but controlling the flow of battle is just as important

Since update, confusion it’s also DOT fyi, you can get 2k+ ticks on a good condi build.

Derenek.8931:

When a Mesmer confuses you, don’t you notice your screen turn pink and everything slow down?

That’s daze, and it doesn’t slow things, it prevents you from using skills.

Mogar.9216:

DD ele does it much better.

We’re not in the ele forums, we’re in the mesmer forums, where people who want to play mesmers tend to come. Maybe you got lost?[/quote]

>>>>>>>
I think you know exactly what I’m saying, a DD ele fills the role of a condi mesmer much much better. There is no reason to take a condi mesmer over a DD ele in a team , I believe this is something the op should consider when weighting the pros/cons of the 2 specs.

I don’t think DD ele and condi mesmers are comparable. Condi mesmer are nowhere near as durable as DD ele but burstier. Also condi mesmer can still have portal.

For me it comes down to the fact that I enjoy condi more, because I love the concept of both confusion and torment. I can play it while being reasonable effective and I know my shortcomings come from me more than from my build.

In competitive play it is less effective because there are more often 3v3 or 4v4, but in average tier pug, condi is a very reasonable alternative.

I mainly now started playing condi ever since the most recent patch reducing my dmg output slightly (But not drastically). Condi for pvp has been working fine for me, In large scale fights it takes a it more time to down someone but I’ve had no issue 1v1 or even fighting 2 people at once.

the real full answer is bit complex

you say you are not lvl 80 so you r new to pvp which means higher chance to meet newbies enemies

in general in really depends on your team composition and if you got communication
in hot join i would say go whatever as it usually 4v5 and zergy

power is the safer build with portal (must learn where and when to use it) . it will be hard to 100-0 average player as they will blink , shadow step or block, dodge blind etc but in team fight if you target the same enemy its doable

with condi on the low mid lvl its also good build . and you can do 3v3 and be effective . the amount of pressure you can do to an ele to make him use all his skills to cleanse will leave him so vulnerable for your team to take it out fast.

pros to power:
high burst dmg but need good timing and awarness
portal
good cc with gs and f3 and mantra

cons to power:
if pressure will loose his effectiveness and dps
will probably be the first to be targeted by the enemy team
probably wont go for the res
higher learning curve

pros to condi:
good sustain pressure (6 confusion will back off any thief or mesmer)
good in 1v1
can hold points 1v1 and even 1v2 (not pu)
can res and stomp
can support with null field / feedback, boon share/ time warp
the counter to almost every build

cons to condi:
if you team lack dps than you wont contribute
cannot burst
hard to pressure versus 2 dd ele or guard which cleanse for the team
cannot kill bunker guard or staff ele diamond skin

with my build i use in pvp i often hear my allies said wow what a burst you did on the ele. and i say i am condi hybrid …. i got 20 might stacks with carrion so 2.5k power 1.9k condi…..

but start with power pu (much safer at start)
than go to condi rabid (not pu)
than try carrion condi (hybrid)
than try boon share support with power or hybrid
i love them all

The answer is simple. You will feel utterly useless as condi mesmer if the enemy team has a dd ele or a bunker guardian and you are trying to fight in fights involving those.

So if you REALLY want to use condi, pick your fights. No matter what the condi mesmers on the forums say, you will be dead weight to your team if you try to take down those heavy condi cleanse classes.

serenke.4806:

The answer is simple. You will feel utterly useless as condi mesmer if the enemy team has a dd ele or a bunker guardian and you are trying to fight in fights involving those.

So if you REALLY want to use condi, pick your fights. No matter what the condi mesmers on the forums say, you will be dead weight to your team if you try to take down those heavy condi cleanse classes.

not exactly true

if they have only 1 bunker or 1 dd ele the condi shines as it can push them to use utilities earlier. dont go for 1v1 but in team fight your team may target the zerk while you pressure the dd ele or bunker . it will be sure win

if there are 2 dd ele or 1 bunker 1 dd ele than dont fight there just split to far or close and hold it as you can hold better while doing pressure versus bunker class

if the enemy team got good aoe cleanse than its a risk but never the less while power will pressure to use heal you can pressure to use heal and clease

so its about your team composition and not just you playing condi

serenke.4806:

The answer is simple. You will feel utterly useless as condi mesmer if the enemy team has a dd ele or a bunker guardian and you are trying to fight in fights involving those.

So if you REALLY want to use condi, pick your fights. No matter what the condi mesmers on the forums say, you will be dead weight to your team if you try to take down those heavy condi cleanse classes.

This is hyperbole. Your objective shouldn’t be to focus a DD ele/guardian in the first place. Additionally, their condi clearing does not outpace your condi output in a team fight where there is a focus target.

Yes, DD ele and bunker guardians are difficult match-ups for condi Mesmer (they’re also difficult match ups for power Mesmer. WEIRD, right?). Yes, they make the team fight a bit more challenging. No, you will not be dead weight to your team if you have the right build.

Condi mesmer does a lot more damage when under pressure & has a lot more defense than shatter mesmer. While shatter mesmer does overall more “burst” damage.

That being said in PvP the enemies will often focus on other people (mesmers can kite well) so you won’t have that much pressure so you.

When ur not under pressure in teamfights as a condi mesmer your damage gets reduced by a lot from my experience. ALso in teamfights, 1 decent ele will aoe cleanse your condis, reducing your effectiveness by a lot as well.

For WvW solo roaming or duo roaming i think condi is better though. You’re better at dealing with outnumbered situations. Elementalists are still hard to kill (coz of condi cleanses) but after a while you should be able to wear them down. (Diamon skin eles are a real problem though.

To make it short:
PvP : power shatter
WvW: condi (condi shatter)

Also condi mesmer is hardcountered by signet necromancers. I killed one on necro last night who said after I killed him, “forgot about the signet, won’t happen again”.

It happened again, unfortunetly unblockable marks and instant cast signets and procs are hard to avoid.

In general though I’d prefer to have a power shatter mesmer as a teammate over condi mesmer, as it simply kills faster, and its not a total troll build. Countless has a really nice hybrid sw/p staff celestial mesmer build that takes most of the condi damage trait, and that works out better than pure condi builds for the most part.

Thx for your replies and tips guys

I think i will stay condi for a while, because i’ve found it a bit simplier :P I mean i can’t find much synergy between GS and Sw: while first one requieres me to be as far away from my opponent as possible another one forced me into melee lol. A bit wierd combination. How can you handle it?

Btw is Scepter viable for dungeons? Atleast for easiest ones? I’m not very reach, have about 35 gold and if i buy full exotic gear and weapons with condi stats for WvW i would like to keep that gear for some time for dungeons as well if possible untill i get more money. Or will i be just fine with yellow Power gear in dungeons?
Any GS and Staff build maybe? Or Sw + Staff?

As a Mesmer you never want to stay in melee even if you’re using MH Sword. The idea is to jump into the fray, burst the target, then get out. Mirror Blade and Blurred Frenzy both cater to this style of melee combat, and since Shatters also proc on yourself you want to be in melee range when you use Mind Wrack.

All in all, the famed Mesmer burst is completely melee.

Sceptre is strange. I find that at the moment it’s more of a Power weapon than a Condition weapon. Ether Bolt and Confusing Images both scale very well with Power. Overall though the Sceptre is just too slow: Malicious Sceptre helps but taking a GM skill to make a sub-par weapon bearable isn’t worth it IMO.

In PvE the problem with the Sceptre is Ether Clone will overwrite Phantasms, and Phantasms are king in PvE. You’re better off using MH Sword or GS, or even using Mantra of Pain as your “autoattack”.

Embolism.8106:

As a Mesmer you never want to stay in melee even if you’re using MH Sword. The idea is to jump into the fray, burst the target, then get out. Mirror Blade and Blurred Frenzy both cater to this style of melee combat, and since Shatters also proc on yourself you want to be in melee range when you use Mind Wrack.

All in all, the famed Mesmer burst is completely melee.

Sceptre is strange. I find that at the moment it’s more of a Power weapon than a Condition weapon. Ether Bolt and Confusing Images both scale very well with Power. Overall though the Sceptre is just too slow: Malicious Sceptre helps but taking a GM skill to make a sub-par weapon bearable isn’t worth it IMO.

In PvE the problem with the Sceptre is Ether Clone will overwrite Phantasms, and Phantasms are king in PvE. You’re better off using MH Sword or GS, or even using Mantra of Pain as your “autoattack”.

Note that the attack speed boost from Malicious Sorcery applies to Mantra of Pain. So if you are gonna rely on MoP as your “autoattack”, scepter might actually be worth having. Just don’t let the scepter aa chain finish in pve. Ever.