Guild Wars 2

And Mesmer is Meta!!!!

So far watching that 1st game mesmers are a playing a HUGE part!!!

Let’s see how the rest of the games pan out, but I don’t think we’re going to see too much variation.

Judging a season by the first game is pretty naive.

And eSports yay…

Azukas.1426:

And Mesmer is Meta!!!!

So far watching that 1st game mesmers are a playing a HUGE part!!!

Let’s see how the rest of the games pan out, but I don’t think we’re going to see too much variation.

Mostly by moa and portal as always . Tempest is imbalance to a point where moa could be really really important for a match .

And mes is good for 1v1 most meta build now .

No shocker about mesmer being in a pro league comp. Every pro league mesmer streamer (even non-mesmer mains) have been playing this spec for weeks. Expect to see a lot more of it until we get nerfed again.

skcamow.3527:

No shocker about mesmer being in a pro league comp. Every pro league mesmer streamer (even non-mesmer mains) have been playing this spec for weeks. Expect to see a lot more of it until we get nerfed again.

After last balance patch all I read here was that the sky is falling to which I said no.

Feels good to be correct yet again j must say

Azukas.1426:

skcamow.3527:

No shocker about mesmer being in a pro league comp. Every pro league mesmer streamer (even non-mesmer mains) have been playing this spec for weeks. Expect to see a lot more of it until we get nerfed again.

After last balance patch all I read here was that the sky is falling to which I said no.

Feels good to be correct yet again j must say

People complained that mesmer got overnerfed. And it is the case:

• they nerfed alacrity: “AWtEW” out of the meta
• they nerfed chaos armor/“chaotic dampening” and “Bountiful Disillusionment”: the chaos line is out of the meta
• they nerfed temporal enchantement: out of the meta
• they nerfed quickness rez: “seize the moment” out of the meta
• they did not do anything to save power shatter: still out of the meta

The problem is that they had a chance to keep 3 mesmer builds alive (power, condi and bunker), but instead only kept condi which is anyway really just a portal/moa bot (since reaper is otherwise a better condi build in any possible ways).

In summary, a-net has build a system which could support a lot of build variation, but, as usual, is not able to balance so that those variations are reasonably similar in efficiency.

Rare to see a roamer as utility bot tbh, but that’s where we are atm. Condi shatter was never really buffed since HoT, yet people use it because it provide the survival that power shatter severely falls behind since HoT introduction.

Condi shatter is alright in 1v1, but it is hilariously inefficient in team fight, so moa and portal are essentially used to generate number advantages in those scenarios. Unlike traditional tank/bruiser/roamer combat etc, these two skills are highly dependent on team synergies so it’ll be a pain in the kitten to balance them. As long as they exist, mesmer will always have a place in pro league meta, no matter how the remainder segments of the build look subpar compare to other meta builds.

I’d argue that we’re pretty much placed at low priority list for build diversity until they find a way to make these 2 skills both useful for high end and casual players.

Aslong as portal exists I doubt that Mes ever will leave the meta. I’m not a pro pvp player tough so tell me – if Moa really that big of a deal?

Guess we don’t need to nerf Revenant now we don’t have stacked PVP teams of them ><

Xyonon.3987:

Aslong as portal exists I doubt that Mes ever will leave the meta. I’m not a pro pvp player tough so tell me – if Moa really that big of a deal?

This meta, like the previous, is a meta of sustained team fights. Getting the first kill is very difficult, but then the fight can snowball.

Because of the amount of active defenses/sustain that some builds can get (tempest, scrapper, etc…) Moa can really make a large difference, and can allow this first kill.

So yes, moa is strong.

I’d rather like moa to be reworked … I think it’s a skill lacking creativity in it’s desing – i mean – a mighty mesmer, master of illusions … gonna make u a chicken T_T why not a curse like skill that forces you randomly to cast skills? or temporary friendly fire? idk, something better than just … “you are now 10s a chicken” and if you miss it “you are now 90s (180s) without elite” …

oh and thanks for the explaination silverkey !

It is not surprising after they eliminated double rev composition by strict rule.
Mesmer turns out to be the most SAFE choice after rev since portal provides a lot of options.

But your should rather feel lucky instead of being joyful. Don’t forget our power spec is completely trash now. I do like the current condie meta spec but being over joyful can be dangerous.

After all, it is just the 5th best spec in the meta and lucky to get a place because of the no-stacking rule.

Exciton.8942:

Don’t forget our power spec is completely trash now.

I can’t disagree that power Mesmer isn’t all too good right now, but I definitely don’t think it’s trash. It has potent burst if set up correctly and good ranged pressure. It’s all I play in PvP and I feel like I do quite well with it.

Ok after the 1st week of pro league I can honestly say w/out a doubt Mesmer is Meta.

Lots of mesmers being played and actually deciding matches. Great to see IMHO.

Step.1285:

Exciton.8942:

Don’t forget our power spec is completely trash now.

I can’t disagree that power Mesmer isn’t all too good right now, but I definitely don’t think it’s trash. It has potent burst if set up correctly and good ranged pressure. It’s all I play in PvP and I feel like I do quite well with it.

I tested all power shatter build before season. Maybe I am exaggerating but to put in perspective, i think it is warrior level. Yeah, you can have some burst and contribute if you rotate well but you are outgunned by basically anything.

I dueled my friend’s necro many times with both my power and condie shatter spec(we are both average but were able to make into legend division with relative ease this season). The difference is night and day.

its sad that people need “pro playurs” to show them how broken mesmers are but maybe at least now mesmer mains will stop yelling that mesmer is little short from being unviable

Lexander.4579:

its sad that people need “pro playurs” to show them how broken mesmers are but maybe at least now mesmer mains will stop yelling that mesmer is little short from being unviable

It’s sad you think this way. If you have read this thread the only reason Mesmer is taken are for 2 skills. Give those 2 skills to anyone and the same thing happens. Also since we have those 2 said skills it seems we are balanced rather poorly. Honestly all classes should have a transform/portal type spell then we would see the true disparity in classes. Having those skills gives us an identity but with a high cost. Imo

Exciton.8942:

I tested all power shatter build before season. Maybe I am exaggerating but to put in perspective, i think it is warrior level. Yeah, you can have some burst and contribute if you rotate well but you are outgunned by basically anything.

I dueled my friend’s necro many times with both my power and condie shatter spec(we are both average but were able to make into legend division with relative ease this season). The difference is night and day.

Personally I’ve had a lot more luck with power shatter. I don’t have as much experience with condition shatter, but from my experience it just felt lacklustre in teamfights and quite good in a 1v1 assuming your enemy doesn’t have decent condition removal.

I do think that in the right hands, condition Mesmer can be more potent, but personally I find power Shatter still quite good. It plays like a Thief with a lot of roaming and singling out enemies in teamfights, but comes with a lot more CC, survivability, and duelling potential. I also find that the interrupt playstyle with Power Block is far more suited to a more bursty build.

Of course, I’m in Ruby and I’m not an extremely active PvPer, so take all that with a grain of salt. I should also add that it’s rather difficult to play and has to work harder or take more risks to achieve the same reward that another class can receive much more easily. But I think it’s far from completely worthless. It has its merits.

denis.9487:

Lexander.4579:

its sad that people need “pro playurs” to show them how broken mesmers are but maybe at least now mesmer mains will stop yelling that mesmer is little short from being unviable

It’s sad you think this way. If you have read this thread the only reason Mesmer is taken are for 2 skills. Give those 2 skills to anyone and the same thing happens. Also since we have those 2 said skills it seems we are balanced rather poorly. Honestly all classes should have a transform/portal type spell then we would see the true disparity in classes. Having those skills gives us an identity but with a high cost. Imo

this is what i’ve always been saying, removing those skills would allow to make mesmers a more interesting and interactive class, but mesmer mains always kept coming with some excuses that those skills absolutely must be kept

Don’t fool yourself. If mesmer doesn’t have moa or portal you’ll simply complain about other stuff. You make an appearance in every mesmer thread to spread false information, and you clearly hate the “interesting and interactive” elements of mesmer. Even to the point of making a post that said “clones instantly begin following you giving away your location, same goes to teleport skills” is b/s just around 2 hours ago.

Mesmer shouldn’t be defined by 2 skills only, but just removing those 2 skills straight away will simply wipe mesmer from this tournament. Base mesmer traits and skills will need to be buffed while adjusting those 2 skills. This kind of extensive rework will probably take another year or so.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Don’t fool yourself. If mesmer doesn’t have moa or portal you’ll simply complain about other stuff. You make an appearance in every mesmer thread to spread false information, and you clearly hate the “interesting and interactive” elements of mesmer. Even to the point of making a post that said “clones instantly begin following you giving away your location, same goes to teleport skills” is b/s just around 2 hours ago.

Mesmer shouldn’t be defined by 2 skills only, but just removing those 2 skills straight away will simply wipe mesmer from this tournament. Base mesmer traits and skills will need to be buffed while adjusting those 2 skills. This kind of extensive rework will probably take another year or so.

since you began stalking my posts you could pay attention that i didnt say those skills should be simply removed, i said they should be removed in order to buff mesmer’s other abilities

and ye clones being glued to player and making any sort of skill jukes pointless is bad design and at least in spvp they should have some sort of leash range beyond which they cant follow the target

Lexander.4579:

its sad that people need “pro playurs” to show them how broken mesmers are but maybe at least now mesmer mains will stop yelling that mesmer is little short from being unviable

Yeah there are times where I’m ashamed to main a mesmer after reading some of the stuff that is said.

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

Not every team was using a mesmer (and they still won)
Don’t forget that, they are only allowed to have 1 profession per team. That means, that they can’t have a power rev and a condi rev in their team.

So, which five out of seven professions(warrior not viable, and guard hard countered by the tempest) are you using?

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

Imagine that … you win because you know how and when to counter your opponents effects. Sounds almost like skill determines how well you do as opposed to what is meta and not. Such a novel approach to playing a game. Oh wait, no it’s not .. .that’s how any good game works. I guess that’s why those guys are pro’s and mostly everyone else isn’t.

People are too stupid to tell the difference between a good spec, a healthy class and 2 strong utilities.

Once again proving GW2 PvP players are some of the stupidest people to play games.

Oh what a shocker…

/sarcasm

messiah.1908:

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.

Well, both yes and no. The new meta build has something else going for it too – the new amulet is perfect for the build – but that isn’t either really tied to the class as much as that it is tied to those stats and the runes. People have been attempting builds similar to that one since HoT launched but it hasn’t really been viable until january when those stats became available (and only in sPvP).

So to a degree it’s a moa-portal meta and before people picked up on mercenary’s it was certainly nothing but a moa-portal meta but the build can handle itself a bit better now and add things to the team with some sustain and fair pressure. So now it’s more of a moa-portal-mercenary-condirune meta, on top of the new class stacking rules, but you’re kind of right in how it’s still not really about the class (as demonstrated by the class outside of the specific meta in the build’s specific mode where those isolated rules apply).

Subversion.2580:

messiah.1908:

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.

Well, both yes and no. The new meta build has something else going for it too – the new amulet is perfect for the build – but that isn’t either really tied to the class as much as that it is tied to those stats and the runes. People have been attempting builds similar to that one since HoT launched but it hasn’t really been viable until january when those stats became available (and only in sPvP).

So to a degree it’s a moa-portal meta and before people picked up on mercenary’s it was certainly nothing but a moa-portal meta but the build can handle itself a bit better now and add things to the team with some sustain and fair pressure. So now it’s more of a moa-portal-mercenary-condirune meta, on top of the new class stacking rules, but you’re kind of right in how it’s still not really about the class (as demonstrated by the class outside of the specific meta in the build’s specific mode where those isolated rules apply).

condi mesmer was before the patch good in 1v1 (i know i played it). not the mercenary buff the build rather the lack of high vitality gave the build a second chance
but drop the portal and moa and see how many gonna use mesmer….as in team fight without moa the mesmer ability to do great pressure with conditions while ele and ranger engi cleanse them can shut down the mesmer so he will stuck in far/close point rotating. and if so you will see probably ranger, engi, ele, necro, rev team

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Azukas.1426:

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Yes sure, we are not in the worst place, like guardian, thief or warrior. But saying mesmer is fine and needs nothing is just a joke.

First, I haven’t enjoyed PvP as much as before since HoT. I just don’t enjoy the CC, condi, invulnerability, boon orgy, healing etc… which can be spammed every second. Those are not fun mechanics. All elite specs and a few core specs need a big nerf hammer to those stupidities.

Then, could a-net actually try to give the build diversity their system is made for? Why do we bother having 6 trait lines, 54 non-minor traits, about 50 skills, etc… per class if only one or 2 builds are viable? The gap in efficiency between meta and non-meta builds have just widened with the power creep. I don’t pretend that it is easy to balance everything so that all classes have access to a few meta or near-meta builds for all game modes, but I really feel that after 3-4 years, we should have reached this stage.

So for mesmer, I am not happy with having condi chrono as only option. I liked core-power shatter, I liked bunker chrono, I liked the old condi mesmer. I want to be able to play those without being a burden for my team. And this statement is valid for all classes, I like power reaper, I like bunker guard, yet I can’t play them.

It’s not a joke because there are more pressing matters.

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Great job?

Please explain to me why the following changes = great job.

1. Alacrity gets gutted. Now alacrity-related traits are useless even if you go for full support. For the whole chrono line, the only usefull traits left are illusion spamming ones. That’s why condie becomes meta since it benefits a lot from more illusions.

2. Well of precog made completely useless. Long CD/long cast time/useless support effect. It will never appear on any decent player’s utility bar

3. Scepter trait buff. Most ppl still don’t use it even in a condie build. The trait buff is meaningless.

So I don’t understand how you can consider Anet’s balance patch did a good job on shaping out mesmer.

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Great job?

Please explain to me why the following changes = great job.

1. Alacrity gets gutted. Now alacrity-related traits are useless even if you go for full support. For the whole chrono line, the only usefull traits left are illusion spamming ones. That’s why condie becomes meta since it benefits a lot from more illusions.

2. Well of precog made completely useless. Long CD/long cast time/useless support effect. It will never appear on any decent player’s utility bar

3. Scepter trait buff. Most ppl still don’t use it even in a condie build. The trait buff is meaningless.

So I don’t understand how you can consider Anet’s balance patch did a good job on shaping out mesmer.

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right.

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there.

3. Small buffs to see if they pan out is the proper way to go about things. Could you imagine if they just threw a huge power creep at scepter with Condi mesmer being as good as it is now? I think they understood this thus went with a slight buff on scepter to see how it pans out.

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things.

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Great job?

Please explain to me why the following changes = great job.

1. Alacrity gets gutted. Now alacrity-related traits are useless even if you go for full support. For the whole chrono line, the only usefull traits left are illusion spamming ones. That’s why condie becomes meta since it benefits a lot from more illusions.

2. Well of precog made completely useless. Long CD/long cast time/useless support effect. It will never appear on any decent player’s utility bar

3. Scepter trait buff. Most ppl still don’t use it even in a condie build. The trait buff is meaningless.

So I don’t understand how you can consider Anet’s balance patch did a good job on shaping out mesmer.

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right.

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there.

3. Small buffs to see if they pan out is the proper way to go about things. Could you imagine if they just threw a huge power creep at scepter with Condi mesmer being as good as it is now? I think they understood this thus went with a slight buff on scepter to see how it pans out.

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things.

You hardly provide an argument sir. You simply claim something is cancer w/o provide any reasoning. How come those two are?!!!!!!

And let’s look at reality now. Alacrity improvement is worthless. Precog well is useless. Why do you think useless skills/traits are good thing?

If you don’t agree, provide a build that take advantage of alacrity or precog well and show me your success.

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

such a skill like well of precognition shouldnt have existed altogether so the decision to wipe that skill out was largely overdue but correct

alacrity is too good even now, while already being a unique class mechanic inaccessible to other classes the strength of it was ridiculously overtuned so you can reliably say it was a justified nerf

right now alacrity is not being a problem but i expect it to resurface as a problem once more if mesmer gets buffed in any way because alacrity in its own enhances the entire skill set of the class

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

You have a way to use “absolute” statements as if they were self-given. But they are not.

No the bunker build did not need to die. It needed a nerf, sure, but support builds should have a place in the game. I don’t enjoy a 5-bruiser team, I don’t find it fun. Yet that is what gw2 is converging to again. Everybody runs paladin or mercenary, everybody can heal, everybody can CC, everybody can damage, this is just ridiculous. I like playing support, which is why I ran bunker chrono since BWE1 (at a time where it was not nearly as effective as when finally released). But now, I just cannot justify playing the build because despite my attempts, it just does not provide enough support to justify using it.

The reason this build was “cancer” is because of the too high personal survivability and the too easy rez. The amulet change and the end of quickness rez already removed an important part of the usefulness of the build. Precog needed to be changed, but not the way it was done.

We don’t provide much on-demand healing, alacrity (and to a lesser extent quickness) was our saving grace, but they are a bit too weak right now (partly because they are hard to share properly).

I don’t want OP builds, I want build diversity. There are only 9 classes in this game, if they don’t provide some diversity, this makes the game rather poor.

Silverkey.2078:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

You have a way to use “absolute” statements as if they were self-given. But they are not.

No the bunker build did not need to die. It needed a nerf, sure, but support builds should have a place in the game. I don’t enjoy a 5-bruiser team, I don’t find it fun. Yet that is what gw2 is converging to again. Everybody runs paladin or mercenary, everybody can heal, everybody can CC, everybody can damage, this is just ridiculous. I like playing support, which is why I ran bunker chrono since BWE1 (at a time where it was not nearly as effective as when finally released). But now, I just cannot justify playing the build because despite my attempts, it just does not provide enough support to justify using it.

The reason this build was “cancer” is because of the too high personal survivability and the too easy rez. The amulet change and the end of quickness rez already removed an important part of the usefulness of the build. Precog needed to be changed, but not the way it was done.

We don’t provide much on-demand healing, alacrity (and to a lesser extent quickness) was our saving grace, but they are a bit too weak right now (partly because they are hard to share properly).

I don’t want OP builds, I want build diversity. There are only 9 classes in this game, if they don’t provide some diversity, this makes the game rather poor.

1st: The overwhelming majority of players and dev team are on my side in regards to bunker mes. So yes it is an absolute and what I say is FACT. If it were not I’d be in the minority w/out dev support like you.

2nd: Thank you for clearing it all up. You are upset because anet took away your God mode. I can understand your frustrations that you are going through. It gets better trust me. If you want to take this to PM so we don’t litter a thread with this I’m willing to help you.

Have a nice day

Azukas.1426:

Silverkey.2078:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

You have a way to use “absolute” statements as if they were self-given. But they are not.

No the bunker build did not need to die. It needed a nerf, sure, but support builds should have a place in the game. I don’t enjoy a 5-bruiser team, I don’t find it fun. Yet that is what gw2 is converging to again. Everybody runs paladin or mercenary, everybody can heal, everybody can CC, everybody can damage, this is just ridiculous. I like playing support, which is why I ran bunker chrono since BWE1 (at a time where it was not nearly as effective as when finally released). But now, I just cannot justify playing the build because despite my attempts, it just does not provide enough support to justify using it.

The reason this build was “cancer” is because of the too high personal survivability and the too easy rez. The amulet change and the end of quickness rez already removed an important part of the usefulness of the build. Precog needed to be changed, but not the way it was done.

We don’t provide much on-demand healing, alacrity (and to a lesser extent quickness) was our saving grace, but they are a bit too weak right now (partly because they are hard to share properly).

I don’t want OP builds, I want build diversity. There are only 9 classes in this game, if they don’t provide some diversity, this makes the game rather poor.

1st: The overwhelming majority of players and dev team are on my side in regards to bunker mes. So yes it is an absolute and what I say is FACT. If it were not I’d be in the minority w/out dev support like you.

2nd: Thank you for clearing it all up. You are upset because anet took away your God mode. I can understand your frustrations that you are going through. It gets better trust me. If you want to take this to PM so we don’t litter a thread with this I’m willing to help you.

Have a nice day

If you agree with the devs that does not give you a free pass to claim an absolute. He didn’t ask for god mode. He asked to simply shave instead of axe. Something we all have asked many times.

Azukas.1426:

Silverkey.2078:

You have a way to use “absolute” statements as if they were self-given. But they are not.

No the bunker build did not need to die. It needed a nerf, sure, but support builds should have a place in the game. I don’t enjoy a 5-bruiser team, I don’t find it fun. Yet that is what gw2 is converging to again. Everybody runs paladin or mercenary, everybody can heal, everybody can CC, everybody can damage, this is just ridiculous. I like playing support, which is why I ran bunker chrono since BWE1 (at a time where it was not nearly as effective as when finally released). But now, I just cannot justify playing the build because despite my attempts, it just does not provide enough support to justify using it.

The reason this build was “cancer” is because of the too high personal survivability and the too easy rez. The amulet change and the end of quickness rez already removed an important part of the usefulness of the build. Precog needed to be changed, but not the way it was done.

We don’t provide much on-demand healing, alacrity (and to a lesser extent quickness) was our saving grace, but they are a bit too weak right now (partly because they are hard to share properly).

I don’t want OP builds, I want build diversity. There are only 9 classes in this game, if they don’t provide some diversity, this makes the game rather poor.

1st: The overwhelming majority of players and dev team are on my side in regards to bunker mes. So yes it is an absolute and what I say is FACT. If it were not I’d be in the minority w/out dev support like you.

No they are not. Everybody agreed the build was OP, me first. Very few (if any) said the build should disappear.

2nd: Thank you for clearing it all up. You are upset because anet took away your God mode. I can understand your frustrations that you are going through. It gets better trust me. If you want to take this to PM so we don’t litter a thread with this I’m willing to help you.

Thanks for the condescending tone. I understand it, there are two categories of people in a debate, those who use facts and reasons, and those who use emotions.

In this case, I just want to note that you’re simply wrong.

I have been suggesting nerf to chronomancer since BWE3. That is when precog and continuous block were added to it. At this time, I already realized that being able to chain block, evades, blur etc… was stupid. I suggested among others a reduced block duration and reduced alacrity and that precog was probably too strong. While my analysis was not perfect at the time (since it was only after a short beta), I think the elements I called “too strong” were indeed too strong.

So I am obviously not the one who wants to play an OP profession.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/BWE3-Chronomancer-Feedback-Thread/page/4#post5575210

Azukas.1426:

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

The best teams ran MoA and Portal. The reason a Mesmer was attached to them was because they never gave Portal to other classes like they hinted at years back.

Azukas.1426:

We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

Pretty sure we need the devs to remember that the class is played outside a mode that only a small subset of a small subset of the game population plays.

Azukas.1426:

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

I would gladly swap scepter for thieves auto attack damage, Mantras for Guardians Traps (or meditations they can choose) and Moa and Portal for Warrior’s…in fact Warrior’s we don’t want anything just please take that monkey paw.

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right.

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there.

Examples of things PvP players have dubbed Cancer

Alacrity
Condies
Condi cleanses
Bunkers
Roamers
Pets
Any stat combination at one point or another
Shoutbow
Mesmers existing
Strong specs that are easy to play
Strong specs that are very hard to play
2 Mesmers or Revs in the same team
PU

Examples of things PvP players haven’t dubbed cancer

5 ele teams
Thief Stealth

and people wonder why GW2 PvP is considered a joke

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

Azukas.1426:

There were no over nerfs to mesmers.

Power shatter disagrees.

But they were not meta anyway so it’s ok?

Besides only reason why condi shatter thrives is due to it having more application and sustained preassure than power, a synergistic line that compensates for the alacrity nerf, and life isn’t threatened by a gust of wind thanks to Mercenaries.

All which matters little since it boils down to moa and portal driving viability, since why bother when you can take any thing else?

Yes mesmer is meta this time, but that does not make it op or even strong. Mes is like building dark archons in broodwar, and crying mind control OP.

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

You need to ask yourself this simple question.

When has Arenanet ever killed a build off?

The damage chronobunker did to the game was why it got rightfully gutted. Doesn’t matter about the collateral damage because the whole health of the game is more important.

But we are still meta and everyone here owes anet an apology.