Guild Wars 2

Kaiyanwan.8521:

And eSports yay…

Agreed. Wish we’d get actual GW2 stuff instead.

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

You need to ask yourself this simple question.

When has Arenanet ever killed a build off?

The damage chronobunker did to the game was why it got rightfully gutted. Doesn’t matter about the collateral damage because the whole health of the game is more important.

But we are still meta and everyone here owes anet an apology.

Hahahahaha and here I was going to abstain from this conversation with trolls. But then you had to ask this. I mean seriously? Just think about what you just asked. Once you do you’ll realize turret engi was destroyed, glamour Mesmer nuked, clone death condi Mesmer are just a few.

And please. The new class stacking rule and the fact we have portal is the only reason we are in the scene at the moment. It’s not hard to realize. So no, I nor anyone else, owes Anet or any of the other cry babies that can’t l2p and have to have things dumbed down an apology.

Step.1285:

Exciton.8942:

I tested all power shatter build before season. Maybe I am exaggerating but to put in perspective, i think it is warrior level. Yeah, you can have some burst and contribute if you rotate well but you are outgunned by basically anything.

I dueled my friend’s necro many times with both my power and condie shatter spec(we are both average but were able to make into legend division with relative ease this season). The difference is night and day.

Personally I’ve had a lot more luck with power shatter. I don’t have as much experience with condition shatter, but from my experience it just felt lacklustre in teamfights and quite good in a 1v1 assuming your enemy doesn’t have decent condition removal.

I do think that in the right hands, condition Mesmer can be more potent, but personally I find power Shatter still quite good. It plays like a Thief with a lot of roaming and singling out enemies in teamfights, but comes with a lot more CC, survivability, and duelling potential. I also find that the interrupt playstyle with Power Block is far more suited to a more bursty build.

Of course, I’m in Ruby and I’m not an extremely active PvPer, so take all that with a grain of salt. I should also add that it’s rather difficult to play and has to work harder or take more risks to achieve the same reward that another class can receive much more easily. But I think it’s far from completely worthless. It has its merits.

Power Shatter is terribad. You are a moabot and portalbot with nothing else to bring.

Quadox.7834:

Power Shatter is terribad. You are a moabot and portalbot with nothing else to bring.

Basically, the way I interpret it, power shatter does not work compare to condi for many reasons, but at least those:

• You cannot play bruiser since we have very little sustained damage, you are forced to play marauder. On the other hand, condi shatter can spam clones and shatter to actually get decent damage and thus still work with the bruiser mercenary amulet. Also in general, because the way condi damage scales, mercenary has higher damage output that paladin.
• in the same principle, there are so many evades/blocks/invulnerabilities that one burst every 10s (or more) does not work (likely to be fully negated). Again, sustained damage is better.
• You currently need chronomancer for continuum split and inspiration to survive condis (playing without condi cleanse is simply not an option anymore), leaving only 1 line. Power needs domination to get some damage output while condi need illusion. The missing ingredient is dueling, especially for DE, but for condi shatter, this is not a problem since chronomancy allows you a lot of clones which is all you need (shatter spam). On the other hand power shatter requires on-demand clone instead of just clone spam, so dueling is still needed. Also, dueling brings great defensive tools (blind, vigor) that chrono does not bring and which are essential with a marauder amulet (not as much with a mercenary).
• in general, the roaming role is dead because of the overall tankiness of every build. You cannot burst someone down fast enough, so you just get into permanent team fights (or small skirmishes) which do not favor power shatter very much.

Jace al Thor.6745:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

You need to ask yourself this simple question.

When has Arenanet ever killed a build off?

The damage chronobunker did to the game was why it got rightfully gutted. Doesn’t matter about the collateral damage because the whole health of the game is more important.

But we are still meta and everyone here owes anet an apology.

Hahahahaha and here I was going to abstain from this conversation with trolls. But then you had to ask this. I mean seriously? Just think about what you just asked. Once you do you’ll realize turret engi was destroyed, glamour Mesmer nuked, clone death condi Mesmer are just a few.

And please. The new class stacking rule and the fact we have portal is the only reason we are in the scene at the moment. It’s not hard to realize. So no, I nor anyone else, owes Anet or any of the other cry babies that can’t l2p and have to have things dumbed down an apology.

Thank you for just solidifying my point. Those builds were gutted as well for a reason, and quite frankly I supported it wholeheartedly then and still do now. As for clone death mesmer….that wasn’t a build. It was a trait that got knifed rightfully so. You could go to any class in the game and the same thing happened to em all.

I also highlighted the statement that shows exactly where you stand. Again if you want I offer the opportunity to PM me about the loss of god mode to you as well. It’s best to take it to PMs than have it junk up a perfectly good thread.

Have a good day and g’luck in blade and soul

Although I agree ChronoBunk (bunks in general even) along with old turret engine needed to be toned down. I don’t think anyone ever complained about clone death. And glamor was only decent in WvW and was silly since you could counter it really easily.

Daishi.6027:

I don’t think anyone ever complained about clone death.

Uh…you clearly must not have been around much when clone death was a thing. We had a thread posted basically once every other day whining about clone death builds.

Daishi.6027:

Although I agree ChronoBunk (bunks in general even) along with old turret engine needed to be toned down. I don’t think anyone ever complained about clone death. And glamor was only decent in WvW and was silly since you could counter it really easily.

I’m guessing you weren’t there for the making of the video that killed glamour. How many mesmers you think it took to kill an entire map blob?

Research it and then get back to me because anet killed it before pvp felt it. Also confusion damage was different in pvp vs pve.

Azukas.1426:

Daishi.6027:

Although I agree ChronoBunk (bunks in general even) along with old turret engine needed to be toned down. I don’t think anyone ever complained about clone death. And glamor was only decent in WvW and was silly since you could counter it really easily.

I’m guessing you weren’t there for the making of the video that killed glamour. How many mesmers you think it took to kill an entire map blob?

Research it and then get back to me because anet killed it before pvp felt it. Also confusion damage was different in pvp vs pve.

Back then zergs didn’t have condition removal. Not our fault that they were just mindless blobs that wrecked themselves on confusion. Sounds like you’re salty cause you got killed that way back then.

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

You need to ask yourself this simple question.

When has Arenanet ever killed a build off?

The damage chronobunker did to the game was why it got rightfully gutted. Doesn’t matter about the collateral damage because the whole health of the game is more important.

But we are still meta and everyone here owes anet an apology.

lol at ‘we are meta’ kinda mentality.

Did you forget the season 1 final where the scene is dominated by double rev composition? Mes are meta only because ESL enforced a no-stacking rule. If mes were better choice, why should Misha(a top tier mes) reroll necro?

Also, you keep ignoring the difference between nerf and over-nerf. To me, nerf something ppl don’t like out-of-meta is enough. To nerf something so that it will never be played in any builds is over-nerf.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Daishi.6027:

Although I agree ChronoBunk (bunks in general even) along with old turret engine needed to be toned down. I don’t think anyone ever complained about clone death. And glamor was only decent in WvW and was silly since you could counter it really easily.

I’m guessing you weren’t there for the making of the video that killed glamour. How many mesmers you think it took to kill an entire map blob?

Research it and then get back to me because anet killed it before pvp felt it. Also confusion damage was different in pvp vs pve.

Back then zergs didn’t have condition removal. Not our fault that they were just mindless blobs that wrecked themselves on confusion. Sounds like you’re salty cause you got killed that way back then.

I was on the side using glamour mesmers lol.

See once again you just very upset whenever anet nerfs mesmers. Doesn’t matter if what mesmers have is broken OP…..nope as long as you are winning with little effort you seem to be happy.

That’s fine if that’s that you are about, but please don’t argue against proper balance changes while throwing fits. You are starting to have people’s view of you change.

Again you can PM me anytime if you need to so we can clear up this thread.

Thanks Again!

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

You need to ask yourself this simple question.

When has Arenanet ever killed a build off?

The damage chronobunker did to the game was why it got rightfully gutted. Doesn’t matter about the collateral damage because the whole health of the game is more important.

But we are still meta and everyone here owes anet an apology.

lol at ‘we are meta’ kinda mentality.

Did you forget the season 1 final where the scene is dominated by double rev composition? Mes are meta only because ESL enforced a no-stacking rule. If mes were better choice, why should Misha(a top tier mes) reroll necro?

Also, you keep ignoring the difference between nerf and over-nerf. To me, nerf something ppl don’t like out-of-meta is enough. To nerf something so that it will never be played in any builds is over-nerf.

Revs are a different story, and this thread is about Mesmers being meta regardless of the “sky is falling” crowd!!!!

So rejoice!!!!

As for over nerf. Nope I expected it and applaud Anet for it. There has never been a more cancerous loathed meta in the history of GW2. At the core of that was the chronobunker. It needed to die and be killed w/out mercy. It was done, and the game is better for it.

So no matter what you say, do, or feel I AM right in this. This isn’t a debatable…it is fact. I do hope in the future that anet can work what was nerfed back into the game. I just feel the complete nuking of the build until a balanced rework was the right course of action.

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

You need to ask yourself this simple question.

When has Arenanet ever killed a build off?

The damage chronobunker did to the game was why it got rightfully gutted. Doesn’t matter about the collateral damage because the whole health of the game is more important.

But we are still meta and everyone here owes anet an apology.

lol at ‘we are meta’ kinda mentality.

Did you forget the season 1 final where the scene is dominated by double rev composition? Mes are meta only because ESL enforced a no-stacking rule. If mes were better choice, why should Misha(a top tier mes) reroll necro?

Also, you keep ignoring the difference between nerf and over-nerf. To me, nerf something ppl don’t like out-of-meta is enough. To nerf something so that it will never be played in any builds is over-nerf.

Revs are a different story, and this thread is about Mesmers being meta regardless of the “sky is falling” crowd!!!!

So rejoice!!!!

As for over nerf. Nope I expected it and applaud Anet for it. There has never been a more cancerous loathed meta in the history of GW2. At the core of that was the chronobunker. It needed to die and be killed w/out mercy. It was done, and the game is better for it.

So no matter what you say, do, or feel I AM right in this. This isn’t a debatable…it is fact. I do hope in the future that anet can work what was nerfed back into the game. I just feel the complete nuking of the build until a balanced rework was the right course of action.

Some posts back you claim that the small buff to scepter is in relation to condition damage. Yet you applaud massive nerfs. Your theory is to totally destroy then slowly build up. How about eliminate the whole middle step. Start nerfing slowly.

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

You need to ask yourself this simple question.

When has Arenanet ever killed a build off?

The damage chronobunker did to the game was why it got rightfully gutted. Doesn’t matter about the collateral damage because the whole health of the game is more important.

But we are still meta and everyone here owes anet an apology.

lol at ‘we are meta’ kinda mentality.

Did you forget the season 1 final where the scene is dominated by double rev composition? Mes are meta only because ESL enforced a no-stacking rule. If mes were better choice, why should Misha(a top tier mes) reroll necro?

Also, you keep ignoring the difference between nerf and over-nerf. To me, nerf something ppl don’t like out-of-meta is enough. To nerf something so that it will never be played in any builds is over-nerf.

Revs are a different story, and this thread is about Mesmers being meta regardless of the “sky is falling” crowd!!!!

So rejoice!!!!

As for over nerf. Nope I expected it and applaud Anet for it. There has never been a more cancerous loathed meta in the history of GW2. At the core of that was the chronobunker. It needed to die and be killed w/out mercy. It was done, and the game is better for it.

So no matter what you say, do, or feel I AM right in this. This isn’t a debatable…it is fact. I do hope in the future that anet can work what was nerfed back into the game. I just feel the complete nuking of the build until a balanced rework was the right course of action.

Why what your believe is a fact, is always correct? While views from other sides are all wrong and even need to apologize.

Hopefully you will never be in a position to judge the future of mankind.

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Great job?

Please explain to me why the following changes = great job.

1. Alacrity gets gutted. Now alacrity-related traits are useless even if you go for full support. For the whole chrono line, the only usefull traits left are illusion spamming ones. That’s why condie becomes meta since it benefits a lot from more illusions.

2. Well of precog made completely useless. Long CD/long cast time/useless support effect. It will never appear on any decent player’s utility bar

3. Scepter trait buff. Most ppl still don’t use it even in a condie build. The trait buff is meaningless.

So I don’t understand how you can consider Anet’s balance patch did a good job on shaping out mesmer.

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right.

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there.

3. Small buffs to see if they pan out is the proper way to go about things. Could you imagine if they just threw a huge power creep at scepter with Condi mesmer being as good as it is now? I think they understood this thus went with a slight buff on scepter to see how it pans out.

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things.

Read your own post on 3. If that’s the case then nerfing should be done the same way.

Nothing is ever “fine” until every single trait and every single weapon and utility skill are equally (but not identically) viable for each class, to be able to use the maximum variety of builds possible.

Therefore no, it is currently not fine and never will be, but is on a continuous process of change.

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

You need to ask yourself this simple question.

When has Arenanet ever killed a build off?

The damage chronobunker did to the game was why it got rightfully gutted. Doesn’t matter about the collateral damage because the whole health of the game is more important.

But we are still meta and everyone here owes anet an apology.

lol at ‘we are meta’ kinda mentality.

Did you forget the season 1 final where the scene is dominated by double rev composition? Mes are meta only because ESL enforced a no-stacking rule. If mes were better choice, why should Misha(a top tier mes) reroll necro?

Also, you keep ignoring the difference between nerf and over-nerf. To me, nerf something ppl don’t like out-of-meta is enough. To nerf something so that it will never be played in any builds is over-nerf.

Revs are a different story, and this thread is about Mesmers being meta regardless of the “sky is falling” crowd!!!!

So rejoice!!!!

As for over nerf. Nope I expected it and applaud Anet for it. There has never been a more cancerous loathed meta in the history of GW2. At the core of that was the chronobunker. It needed to die and be killed w/out mercy. It was done, and the game is better for it.

So no matter what you say, do, or feel I AM right in this. This isn’t a debatable…it is fact. I do hope in the future that anet can work what was nerfed back into the game. I just feel the complete nuking of the build until a balanced rework was the right course of action.

Some posts back you claim that the small buff to scepter is in relation to condition damage. Yet you applaud massive nerfs. Your theory is to totally destroy then slowly build up. How about eliminate the whole middle step. Start nerfing slowly.

Yes I do because they were the proper changes to be made for mesmers. If mesmers were woefully under powered then I’d support nerfs to the OP things in the game to bring them up. Power creep doesn’t work and mesmers are a prime example of its failure.

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right. [citation needed]

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there. [citation needed]

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things. [citation needed]

https://youtu.be/_X9bH3udBsI

So would you like to try and explain how what they did to well of precognition was justfied?

Was precog too strong? Of course it was. Was the series of nerfs they slapped it with justified? Obviously not. The skill barely performs a function now, it’s incredibly weak.

You’ve also failed to justify the alacrity nerf. Alacrity was nerfed due to PvE considerations, not PvP. You may want to touch up on your history there.

Through all the nerfs our mesmers are still in the meta. A meta which is leaps and bounds better than that cancer we were forced to sit through last season.

There were no over nerfs to mesmers. The bunker build had to die. There was no other way, and the fact that anet kept us in the meta post mortem is a testament to how well thought out the nerf was. One could even argue that mesmer was so broken OP that even after a drubbing with the nerf bat we are still very strong.

Food for thought

There ARE absolutely other ways rather than completely killing off skills and mechanics. It is just Anet being super lazy on this matter. Even if they don’t nerf precog well and alacrity. Bunker mes would be out of meta(not completely dead) because of quickness/slow change and removal of bunker amulets.

Also, I am not even asking a viable build comparable to the current clone spaming condie mes. I am simply asking for so-so alternatives I can sometimes play for fun. Why is clone spaming the only way to play chrono? Current iteration of such skills/traits don’t provide any value as an alternative.

There is a difference between nerfs and over-nerfs.

You need to ask yourself this simple question.

When has Arenanet ever killed a build off?

The damage chronobunker did to the game was why it got rightfully gutted. Doesn’t matter about the collateral damage because the whole health of the game is more important.

But we are still meta and everyone here owes anet an apology.

lol at ‘we are meta’ kinda mentality.

Did you forget the season 1 final where the scene is dominated by double rev composition? Mes are meta only because ESL enforced a no-stacking rule. If mes were better choice, why should Misha(a top tier mes) reroll necro?

Also, you keep ignoring the difference between nerf and over-nerf. To me, nerf something ppl don’t like out-of-meta is enough. To nerf something so that it will never be played in any builds is over-nerf.

Revs are a different story, and this thread is about Mesmers being meta regardless of the “sky is falling” crowd!!!!

So rejoice!!!!

As for over nerf. Nope I expected it and applaud Anet for it. There has never been a more cancerous loathed meta in the history of GW2. At the core of that was the chronobunker. It needed to die and be killed w/out mercy. It was done, and the game is better for it.

So no matter what you say, do, or feel I AM right in this. This isn’t a debatable…it is fact. I do hope in the future that anet can work what was nerfed back into the game. I just feel the complete nuking of the build until a balanced rework was the right course of action.

Why what your believe is a fact, is always correct? While views from other sides are all wrong and even need to apologize.

Hopefully you will never be in a position to judge the future of mankind.

Obviously after doing what I said gave us,a much better meta while keeping mesmers in it. That along with behind my line of thinking we have the majority of the player base, the entire pro league, and Arenanet devs.

Do you need more clarification?

So everyone who was on these forums running Anet’s name through the mud does in fact OWE them an apology

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Great job?

Please explain to me why the following changes = great job.

1. Alacrity gets gutted. Now alacrity-related traits are useless even if you go for full support. For the whole chrono line, the only usefull traits left are illusion spamming ones. That’s why condie becomes meta since it benefits a lot from more illusions.

2. Well of precog made completely useless. Long CD/long cast time/useless support effect. It will never appear on any decent player’s utility bar

3. Scepter trait buff. Most ppl still don’t use it even in a condie build. The trait buff is meaningless.

So I don’t understand how you can consider Anet’s balance patch did a good job on shaping out mesmer.

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right.

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there.

3. Small buffs to see if they pan out is the proper way to go about things. Could you imagine if they just threw a huge power creep at scepter with Condi mesmer being as good as it is now? I think they understood this thus went with a slight buff on scepter to see how it pans out.

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things.

Read your own post on 3. If that’s the case then nerfing should be done the same way.

Normally shaves is best…unfortunately the situation of last season needed called for the severity of that action.

As a mesmer I understand and support their decision. We should all be glad we got to ride that gravy train for so long.

Azukas.1426:

Thank you for the well thought out reply. I do have to confess about liking some of your points specially the all users one….there is just one problem with it.

You are wrong.

Ooh ooh I can do this too!

See, there’s just one problem with your reply.

You are wrong.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Thank you for the well thought out reply. I do have to confess about liking some of your points specially the all users one….there is just one problem with it.

You are wrong.

Ooh ooh I can do this too!

See, there’s just one problem with your reply.

You are wrong.

We can all do that Fay!
I’m right and he is wrong. Yup I did it too.

I mean at this point we might as well reduce this to personal attacks since you have made it perfectly clear you won’t have any reasonable or logical comments to make. Of course, other than we owe Anet an apology. Which we don’t. If anything they owe us one for refusing to acknowledge they’ve messed up and won’t take any advice from the player base.

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Great job?

Please explain to me why the following changes = great job.

1. Alacrity gets gutted. Now alacrity-related traits are useless even if you go for full support. For the whole chrono line, the only usefull traits left are illusion spamming ones. That’s why condie becomes meta since it benefits a lot from more illusions.

2. Well of precog made completely useless. Long CD/long cast time/useless support effect. It will never appear on any decent player’s utility bar

3. Scepter trait buff. Most ppl still don’t use it even in a condie build. The trait buff is meaningless.

So I don’t understand how you can consider Anet’s balance patch did a good job on shaping out mesmer.

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right.

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there.

3. Small buffs to see if they pan out is the proper way to go about things. Could you imagine if they just threw a huge power creep at scepter with Condi mesmer being as good as it is now? I think they understood this thus went with a slight buff on scepter to see how it pans out.

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things.

Read your own post on 3. If that’s the case then nerfing should be done the same way.

Normally shaves is best…unfortunately the situation of last season needed called for the severity of that action.

As a mesmer I understand and support their decision. We should all be glad we got to ride that gravy train for so long.

If we just follow logic even the logic you posted in your own response is to buff slow. So then nerfing surely must follow the same logical path. But at this point logic is long gone like chronobunker.

i didnt read it all. and also took a break form this game

but you fail to see the truth
anet claim this game wont be like any other holy trinity

the fact is it become exactly the same

ele – healer
rev – dmg
ranger – support/ sustain
necro – condi dmg /boon removal
mesmer – condi dmg
engi – bruiser

you aint see ele as dmg
you aint see (now) mesmer and support
you aint see engi as dmg or support
you aint ranger as dmg

you basically dont see build diversity anymore so we got holy trinity in some way. which makes some classes to be out of the meta

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Thank you for the well thought out reply. I do have to confess about liking some of your points specially the all users one….there is just one problem with it.

You are wrong.

Ooh ooh I can do this too!

See, there’s just one problem with your reply.

You are wrong.

Why would one type out a long reply when that person is predicting an infraction?

Might as well wait for a post that isn’t going to be deleted right?

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

i see still some ppl understand it all wrong

its not mesmer meta. as atm mesmer is being used as portal and moa bot.
if they gave thief little bit sustain or more ability to handle 1v1 better he could easily take this role
also you saw good rotations just shut down mesmer portal. and if being ignored mesmer rotation was shutting down the enemy team. you could see how mesmer usually got the first place in points as he mostly decap/cap/ contest points.
now rotation.
for every class and build there is some degree of counter build
watching the stream and comp scepter over sword is much better as you cant stack 2 necro and i didnt see guards.
thus memser could easily take down any ele as the ele need to watch out for shatters and weapon skills as well. sword hardly being utilize in the right way.
also you saw how pro players can handle versus moa ppl so complain about.
mesmer atm taking the part of thief with decaping points. and also with good sustain on point and good 1v1 . if thief could be great in 1v1 (not good as he doesnt have sustain) i think we could see thief instead of mesmer
if any nurf will come to moa or portal mesmer will be out of meta thus its not mesmer meta rather portalmoa meta.

some teams fail to pressure the mesmer but when they do the enemy fell apart.

So which pro team are you on?

Mesmer is meta and the only way a thief could take our spot is if they get some serious power creep

again its not mesmer meta rather moa and portal meta. without portal and or moa mesmer would not have been chosen.
you saw teams without mesmer which also won versus the mesmer team as they knew how to counter the rotations. you saw how tempest could easily survive and support his fellow teammates and also evade the moa dmg…

its like ele needed for their support cleanse and heals
engi for their sustain on a point
ranger for their sustain and res and bit dmg
necro for their condi skills on a point
rev for its dmg
mesmer for their moa and portal mainly (as if team just 1v1 unless its engi they bit fail with rotations

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Great job?

Please explain to me why the following changes = great job.

1. Alacrity gets gutted. Now alacrity-related traits are useless even if you go for full support. For the whole chrono line, the only usefull traits left are illusion spamming ones. That’s why condie becomes meta since it benefits a lot from more illusions.

2. Well of precog made completely useless. Long CD/long cast time/useless support effect. It will never appear on any decent player’s utility bar

3. Scepter trait buff. Most ppl still don’t use it even in a condie build. The trait buff is meaningless.

So I don’t understand how you can consider Anet’s balance patch did a good job on shaping out mesmer.

1. Alacrity was cancer. I applaud anet for doing what was right.

2. Once again going with the theme of cancer we once again arrive there.

3. Small buffs to see if they pan out is the proper way to go about things. Could you imagine if they just threw a huge power creep at scepter with Condi mesmer being as good as it is now? I think they understood this thus went with a slight buff on scepter to see how it pans out.

I’m sorry if you disagree with the changes, but it was needed in the grand scheme of things.

Read your own post on 3. If that’s the case then nerfing should be done the same way.

Normally shaves is best…unfortunately the situation of last season needed called for the severity of that action.

As a mesmer I understand and support their decision. We should all be glad we got to ride that gravy train for so long.

If we just follow logic even the logic you posted in your own response is to buff slow. So then nerfing surely must follow the same logical path. But at this point logic is long gone like chronobunker.

We’re you in the twitch chats during pro league watching the embarrassment that was called season 1?

If you were you’d understand why they did what they did.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Thank you for the well thought out reply. I do have to confess about liking some of your points specially the all users one….there is just one problem with it.

You are wrong.

Ooh ooh I can do this too!

See, there’s just one problem with your reply.

You are wrong.

Why would one type out a long reply when that person is predicting an infraction?

Might as well wait for a post that isn’t going to be deleted right?

Predicting an infraction and get one must be truth. Just like nerfing a whole build instead of shaving then claiming magical insight or agreeing is truth.

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Thank you for the well thought out reply. I do have to confess about liking some of your points specially the all users one….there is just one problem with it.

You are wrong.

Ooh ooh I can do this too!

See, there’s just one problem with your reply.

You are wrong.

Why would one type out a long reply when that person is predicting an infraction?

Might as well wait for a post that isn’t going to be deleted right?

Predicting an infraction and get one must be truth. Just like nerfing a whole build instead of shaving then claiming magical insight or agreeing is truth.

I’m not going to put in a ton of effort into something that will be deleted. Honestly not worth anyone’s time, but I did respond with something that he could respond to.

…I don’t even. I think my brain is melting due to the ignorance in this thread. Why did I ever think it’s a good idea to quickly check the Mesmer forums before going to sleep…

Chronology of events:

1. Mesmer never really was meta
2. Mesmer gets nerfed again and again and again
3. HoT gets introduced. Mesmer finally is meta, with a build that is really strong (maybe a bit too strong), but actually not nearly as good as other classes if it wasn’t for portal and moa.
4. Mesmer gets nerfed by a huge margin. Other classes are (sometimes) a little bit shaved from. If they are even touched.
5. Mesmer gets nerfed again.
6. Mesmer gets nerfed again. Nobody would ever think Mesmer is really viable; especially not in high-level play.
7. Tournament starts that disallows class-stacking. So now the teams start thinking which class to pick instead of just going double-something… and decide to chose portal and moa. That’s the ONLY reason for why you see Mesmers.
8. Person pops up and goes like “amagawd Mesmer meta, anet was right, everyone is stupid and I’m right because I’m right and can’t possibly be wrong; all the logical and obvious arguments don’t matter cause my word is law and I’m always right”.
9. I feel like smashing my head onto my desk until it’s a bloody pulp. But since I’d like to keep being alive and such, and I’m also not into pain… I decide to write this post instead. Like, I won’t get enough sleep anymore, but ya… still the better option out of the two.

if you didnt see pro playurs playing mesmer it doesnt mean mesmer wasnt dominating in sPvP, mesmer has always been one of the strongest classes but required playing better than average in order to be used to the full extent

“Meta” as in, all of 50 players and 500 viewers, the majority of the game after all, might consider it to be important? Kinda cute.

Can we please axe sPvP? The legendary fiasco showed that there’s really not enough dev manpower around, and sPvP is so tiny and so unfitting to the rest of the game, just get rid of it.

Lexander.4579:

if you didnt see pro playurs playing mesmer it doesnt mean mesmer wasnt dominating in sPvP, mesmer has always been one of the strongest classes but required playing better than average in order to be used to the full extent

I am not sure if this guy is trolling or trying to starting a flame war or not.

First is his word: “playurs” not players
Second is “mesmer has always been on of the strongest classes”

On the first note, it might be because of a simple spelling mistake but the second quote is pure ignorant, if mesmer is always that strong why don’t we see them more in tournament in the past? or have you been living in a bizarro earth for the last 3 years?

Hlord.5940:

Lexander.4579:

if you didnt see pro playurs playing mesmer it doesnt mean mesmer wasnt dominating in sPvP, mesmer has always been one of the strongest classes but required playing better than average in order to be used to the full extent

I am not sure if this guy is trolling or trying to starting a flame war or not.

First is his word: “playurs” not players
Second is “mesmer has always been on of the strongest classes”

On the first note, it might be because of a simple spelling mistake but the second quote is pure ignorant, if mesmer is always that strong why don’t we see them more in tournament in the past? or have you been living in a bizarro earth for the last 3 years?

because clearly gw2 pro playurs are not pro enough to realize the strength of mesmer’s portals and moa shutdowns and only now they are getting somewhere near understanding of the value of those 2 skills while at the same time mesmer is just as good in combat as any other class

Carighan.6758:

“Meta” as in, all of 50 players and 500 viewers, the majority of the game after all, might consider it to be important? Kinda cute.

Can we please axe sPvP? The legendary fiasco showed that there’s really not enough dev manpower around, and sPvP is so tiny and so unfitting to the rest of the game, just get rid of it.

I’m sorry if you thought this was a PvE thread but it isnt. This is about PvP and we really don’t need this type of attitude in this thread. You are more than welcome to post your opinions on the subject matter just please don’t disrespect others choice of gameplay

Thanks.

I rarely if ever agree with Azukas. It isn’t doom and gloom, and the bunker mesmer meta was absolutely atrocious and yes that build in its entire concept absolutely deserved the ax based on almost unanimous player feedback.

I’m big into theory. I’ll leave this snippet I made day 1 of the alacrity nerfs here:

… the format rewards and puts emphasis on Chronomancers and mesmers, because they shut down a lot of other builds; they can burst harder than any other spec and offer a lot of team mobility and control of a fight, which depending on target prioritization, can swing the success of a fight massively. Since sPvP is taking a turn for offensive stats and removing pretty much the entire concept of the pure bunker tank, mesmers/chronomancers may potentially have a dramatic presence in high-skill groups for point control and counter-burst.

The mesmer is in a really awkward state. It has a profound impact on every single format and is almost always able to be useful, however none of its builds which are useful and very powerful among the game modes are very engaging to play, for their power comes from their relatively extreme utility of a few skills and wildly inconsistent performance between formats due to the nature of stat scaling and the math behind the class. Its only sense of power comes from 1v1 encounters, and the results here are very inconsistent between formats, for in WvW the class is much stronger relative to others than it is in sPvP.

Further, the thief is effectively no longer used in the format, so there is more leniency for mesmers in the competitive scene at the moment. My predictions are that as the meta evolves to include mesmers more as a counter to the unstoppable boon-heavy builds such as the scrapper and tempest (and to an extent reaper), if these overpowered builds are left unchecked, team wins on the competitive level will become more about team composition over mechanical skill more than they ever were, with counter-picking on the mesmer/thief level being the biggest deciding factors.

Both the mesmer and thief need substantial work to become competitive high-skill classes with the capacity to swing matches in their favor while not being overpowered, however this must also come paired with substantial nerfs to boons and sheer damage/sustain nerfs to tempest, revenant, and scrapper.

DeceiverX.8361:

I rarely if ever agree with Azukas. It isn’t doom and gloom, and the bunker mesmer meta was absolutely atrocious and yes that build in its entire concept absolutely deserved the ax based on almost unanimous player feedback.

I’m big into theory. I’ll leave this snippet I made day 1 of the alacrity nerfs here:

… the format rewards and puts emphasis on Chronomancers and mesmers, because they shut down a lot of other builds; they can burst harder than any other spec and offer a lot of team mobility and control of a fight, which depending on target prioritization, can swing the success of a fight massively. Since sPvP is taking a turn for offensive stats and removing pretty much the entire concept of the pure bunker tank, mesmers/chronomancers may potentially have a dramatic presence in high-skill groups for point control and counter-burst.

The mesmer is in a really awkward state. It has a profound impact on every single format and is almost always able to be useful, however none of its builds which are useful and very powerful among the game modes are very engaging to play, for their power comes from their relatively extreme utility of a few skills and wildly inconsistent performance between formats due to the nature of stat scaling and the math behind the class. Its only sense of power comes from 1v1 encounters, and the results here are very inconsistent between formats, for in WvW the class is much stronger relative to others than it is in sPvP.

Further, the thief is effectively no longer used in the format, so there is more leniency for mesmers in the competitive scene at the moment. My predictions are that as the meta evolves to include mesmers more as a counter to the unstoppable boon-heavy builds such as the scrapper and tempest (and to an extent reaper), if these overpowered builds are left unchecked, team wins on the competitive level will become more about team composition over mechanical skill more than they ever were, with counter-picking on the mesmer/thief level being the biggest deciding factors.

Both the mesmer and thief need substantial work to become competitive high-skill classes with the capacity to swing matches in their favor while not being overpowered, however this must also come paired with substantial nerfs to boons and sheer damage/sustain nerfs to tempest, revenant, and scrapper.

Overall I think you’re correct, but something you may have neglected to consider is that a shiro revenant is as effective if not more effective than a thief at chasing down and applying heavy pressure to a mesmer. There’s a reason you still see nobody running power mesmer. It’s simply too fragile to match up to a lot of the meta classes, not just thief.

So, there’s still pretty heavy restrictions on what can and can’t be run as a mesmer, thief just isn’t the limiting factor anymore.

I’ve really only been playing pvp for these past two seasons, but I’ve come to enjoy it.

For me, playing up through ruby, nobody has seemed unhappy that I was on the team as a mesmer, I’ve been able to play whatever mesmer build I want (after the bunker nerfs), and I’ve been able to have fun and be effective in both 1v1 and team fights. That seems pretty good in the grand scheme of things.

I’m playing a condi shatter build that is a little different than most (it’s one of Messiah’s variants). I always use gravity well instead of moa, and I only bring portal when I’m playing with my son because he has a slow necro.

Whether mesmer is “meta” or not doesn’t really matter to me. Hopefully there are builds and roles that a mesmer can fill at my level of pvp going forward because it’s been fun to get to this point.

Fay.2357:

DeceiverX.8361:

I rarely if ever agree with Azukas. It isn’t doom and gloom, and the bunker mesmer meta was absolutely atrocious and yes that build in its entire concept absolutely deserved the ax based on almost unanimous player feedback.

I’m big into theory. I’ll leave this snippet I made day 1 of the alacrity nerfs here:

… the format rewards and puts emphasis on Chronomancers and mesmers, because they shut down a lot of other builds; they can burst harder than any other spec and offer a lot of team mobility and control of a fight, which depending on target prioritization, can swing the success of a fight massively. Since sPvP is taking a turn for offensive stats and removing pretty much the entire concept of the pure bunker tank, mesmers/chronomancers may potentially have a dramatic presence in high-skill groups for point control and counter-burst.

The mesmer is in a really awkward state. It has a profound impact on every single format and is almost always able to be useful, however none of its builds which are useful and very powerful among the game modes are very engaging to play, for their power comes from their relatively extreme utility of a few skills and wildly inconsistent performance between formats due to the nature of stat scaling and the math behind the class. Its only sense of power comes from 1v1 encounters, and the results here are very inconsistent between formats, for in WvW the class is much stronger relative to others than it is in sPvP.

Further, the thief is effectively no longer used in the format, so there is more leniency for mesmers in the competitive scene at the moment. My predictions are that as the meta evolves to include mesmers more as a counter to the unstoppable boon-heavy builds such as the scrapper and tempest (and to an extent reaper), if these overpowered builds are left unchecked, team wins on the competitive level will become more about team composition over mechanical skill more than they ever were, with counter-picking on the mesmer/thief level being the biggest deciding factors.

Both the mesmer and thief need substantial work to become competitive high-skill classes with the capacity to swing matches in their favor while not being overpowered, however this must also come paired with substantial nerfs to boons and sheer damage/sustain nerfs to tempest, revenant, and scrapper.

Overall I think you’re correct, but something you may have neglected to consider is that a shiro revenant is as effective if not more effective than a thief at chasing down and applying heavy pressure to a mesmer. There’s a reason you still see nobody running power mesmer. It’s simply too fragile to match up to a lot of the meta classes, not just thief.

So, there’s still pretty heavy restrictions on what can and can’t be run as a mesmer, thief just isn’t the limiting factor anymore.

Revs do not counter like a thief did at one point. Even power shatter has many tools to keep this from happening.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

DeceiverX.8361:

I rarely if ever agree with Azukas. It isn’t doom and gloom, and the bunker mesmer meta was absolutely atrocious and yes that build in its entire concept absolutely deserved the ax based on almost unanimous player feedback.

I’m big into theory. I’ll leave this snippet I made day 1 of the alacrity nerfs here:

… the format rewards and puts emphasis on Chronomancers and mesmers, because they shut down a lot of other builds; they can burst harder than any other spec and offer a lot of team mobility and control of a fight, which depending on target prioritization, can swing the success of a fight massively. Since sPvP is taking a turn for offensive stats and removing pretty much the entire concept of the pure bunker tank, mesmers/chronomancers may potentially have a dramatic presence in high-skill groups for point control and counter-burst.

The mesmer is in a really awkward state. It has a profound impact on every single format and is almost always able to be useful, however none of its builds which are useful and very powerful among the game modes are very engaging to play, for their power comes from their relatively extreme utility of a few skills and wildly inconsistent performance between formats due to the nature of stat scaling and the math behind the class. Its only sense of power comes from 1v1 encounters, and the results here are very inconsistent between formats, for in WvW the class is much stronger relative to others than it is in sPvP.

Further, the thief is effectively no longer used in the format, so there is more leniency for mesmers in the competitive scene at the moment. My predictions are that as the meta evolves to include mesmers more as a counter to the unstoppable boon-heavy builds such as the scrapper and tempest (and to an extent reaper), if these overpowered builds are left unchecked, team wins on the competitive level will become more about team composition over mechanical skill more than they ever were, with counter-picking on the mesmer/thief level being the biggest deciding factors.

Both the mesmer and thief need substantial work to become competitive high-skill classes with the capacity to swing matches in their favor while not being overpowered, however this must also come paired with substantial nerfs to boons and sheer damage/sustain nerfs to tempest, revenant, and scrapper.

Overall I think you’re correct, but something you may have neglected to consider is that a shiro revenant is as effective if not more effective than a thief at chasing down and applying heavy pressure to a mesmer. There’s a reason you still see nobody running power mesmer. It’s simply too fragile to match up to a lot of the meta classes, not just thief.

So, there’s still pretty heavy restrictions on what can and can’t be run as a mesmer, thief just isn’t the limiting factor anymore.

Revs do not counter like a thief did at one point. Even power shatter has many tools to keep this from happening.

They absolutely do.

Thieves countered mesmer for a couple main reasons. Firstly, they could easily outstealth mesmer, meaning the defensive advantage of stealth was not applicable when fighting a thief. Secondly, thief did far better sustained damage with similar potential burst, meaning that in a straight fight, thief would kill the mesmer. Thirdly, thief had mobility better than mesmer, meaning the mesmer couldn’t use mobility to avoid the thief.

Revenants have all this and more. Herald has a low cooldown aoe reveal, completely nullifying the capability of the mesmer to stealth. This is arguably even more punishing than just being outstealthed like thieves used to. Revenants don’t have the burst that thieves do, but they have insane sustained damage with sword and quickness on-demand. In a straight fight, the mesmer dies very fast. Lastly, between shiro teleport and unrelenting assault, the revenant is far harder to escape from than even the most persistent thief.

So please, do explain more about how power shatter actually has all these great defensive tools and that’s why we see them being played now…oh wait.

Lexander.4579:

…
because clearly gw2 pro playurs are not pro enough to realize the strength of mesmer’s portals and moa shutdowns and only now they are getting somewhere near understanding of the value of those 2 skills while at the same time mesmer is just as good in combat as any other class

This is just ridiculous, your reason is that portal and moa is some kind of a new thing, even thou it’s been there from the begining? portal has been used in pvp, wvw and even in pve (mainly jumping puzzle). It’s even in the mesmer trailer!
For moa, we already have complains about it ages ago until some one point out that it come with build in evade, and skill 2 for running away. Its a long casting time and long cd skill. The use was always the same: to shut down a single target.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

DeceiverX.8361:

I rarely if ever agree with Azukas. It isn’t doom and gloom, and the bunker mesmer meta was absolutely atrocious and yes that build in its entire concept absolutely deserved the ax based on almost unanimous player feedback.

I’m big into theory. I’ll leave this snippet I made day 1 of the alacrity nerfs here:

… the format rewards and puts emphasis on Chronomancers and mesmers, because they shut down a lot of other builds; they can burst harder than any other spec and offer a lot of team mobility and control of a fight, which depending on target prioritization, can swing the success of a fight massively. Since sPvP is taking a turn for offensive stats and removing pretty much the entire concept of the pure bunker tank, mesmers/chronomancers may potentially have a dramatic presence in high-skill groups for point control and counter-burst.

The mesmer is in a really awkward state. It has a profound impact on every single format and is almost always able to be useful, however none of its builds which are useful and very powerful among the game modes are very engaging to play, for their power comes from their relatively extreme utility of a few skills and wildly inconsistent performance between formats due to the nature of stat scaling and the math behind the class. Its only sense of power comes from 1v1 encounters, and the results here are very inconsistent between formats, for in WvW the class is much stronger relative to others than it is in sPvP.

Further, the thief is effectively no longer used in the format, so there is more leniency for mesmers in the competitive scene at the moment. My predictions are that as the meta evolves to include mesmers more as a counter to the unstoppable boon-heavy builds such as the scrapper and tempest (and to an extent reaper), if these overpowered builds are left unchecked, team wins on the competitive level will become more about team composition over mechanical skill more than they ever were, with counter-picking on the mesmer/thief level being the biggest deciding factors.

Both the mesmer and thief need substantial work to become competitive high-skill classes with the capacity to swing matches in their favor while not being overpowered, however this must also come paired with substantial nerfs to boons and sheer damage/sustain nerfs to tempest, revenant, and scrapper.

Overall I think you’re correct, but something you may have neglected to consider is that a shiro revenant is as effective if not more effective than a thief at chasing down and applying heavy pressure to a mesmer. There’s a reason you still see nobody running power mesmer. It’s simply too fragile to match up to a lot of the meta classes, not just thief.

So, there’s still pretty heavy restrictions on what can and can’t be run as a mesmer, thief just isn’t the limiting factor anymore.

Revs do not counter like a thief did at one point. Even power shatter has many tools to keep this from happening.

They absolutely do.

Thieves countered mesmer for a couple main reasons. Firstly, they could easily outstealth mesmer, meaning the defensive advantage of stealth was not applicable when fighting a thief. Secondly, thief did far better sustained damage with similar potential burst, meaning that in a straight fight, thief would kill the mesmer. Thirdly, thief had mobility better than mesmer, meaning the mesmer couldn’t use mobility to avoid the thief.

Revenants have all this and more. Herald has a low cooldown aoe reveal, completely nullifying the capability of the mesmer to stealth. This is arguably even more punishing than just being outstealthed like thieves used to. Revenants don’t have the burst that thieves do, but they have insane sustained damage with sword and quickness on-demand. In a straight fight, the mesmer dies very fast. Lastly, between shiro teleport and unrelenting assault, the revenant is far harder to escape from than even the most persistent thief.

So please, do explain more about how power shatter actually has all these great defensive tools and that’s why we see them being played now…oh wait.

If you are losing to a rev on condi shatter we need to evaluate your gameplay to help you. Upload a video please so we can help.

The only real hard counter thief had over us was S/D thief and that only was power shatter running certain utilities. This out stealthing talk in a PvP thread honestly has no merit considering thieves don’t abuse stealth in PvP. Also it’s to be noted that it’s been over a year now since that hard counter was in place.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

DeceiverX.8361:

I rarely if ever agree with Azukas. It isn’t doom and gloom, and the bunker mesmer meta was absolutely atrocious and yes that build in its entire concept absolutely deserved the ax based on almost unanimous player feedback.

I’m big into theory. I’ll leave this snippet I made day 1 of the alacrity nerfs here:

… the format rewards and puts emphasis on Chronomancers and mesmers, because they shut down a lot of other builds; they can burst harder than any other spec and offer a lot of team mobility and control of a fight, which depending on target prioritization, can swing the success of a fight massively. Since sPvP is taking a turn for offensive stats and removing pretty much the entire concept of the pure bunker tank, mesmers/chronomancers may potentially have a dramatic presence in high-skill groups for point control and counter-burst.

The mesmer is in a really awkward state. It has a profound impact on every single format and is almost always able to be useful, however none of its builds which are useful and very powerful among the game modes are very engaging to play, for their power comes from their relatively extreme utility of a few skills and wildly inconsistent performance between formats due to the nature of stat scaling and the math behind the class. Its only sense of power comes from 1v1 encounters, and the results here are very inconsistent between formats, for in WvW the class is much stronger relative to others than it is in sPvP.

Further, the thief is effectively no longer used in the format, so there is more leniency for mesmers in the competitive scene at the moment. My predictions are that as the meta evolves to include mesmers more as a counter to the unstoppable boon-heavy builds such as the scrapper and tempest (and to an extent reaper), if these overpowered builds are left unchecked, team wins on the competitive level will become more about team composition over mechanical skill more than they ever were, with counter-picking on the mesmer/thief level being the biggest deciding factors.

Both the mesmer and thief need substantial work to become competitive high-skill classes with the capacity to swing matches in their favor while not being overpowered, however this must also come paired with substantial nerfs to boons and sheer damage/sustain nerfs to tempest, revenant, and scrapper.

Overall I think you’re correct, but something you may have neglected to consider is that a shiro revenant is as effective if not more effective than a thief at chasing down and applying heavy pressure to a mesmer. There’s a reason you still see nobody running power mesmer. It’s simply too fragile to match up to a lot of the meta classes, not just thief.

So, there’s still pretty heavy restrictions on what can and can’t be run as a mesmer, thief just isn’t the limiting factor anymore.

Revs do not counter like a thief did at one point. Even power shatter has many tools to keep this from happening.

They absolutely do.

Thieves countered mesmer for a couple main reasons. Firstly, they could easily outstealth mesmer, meaning the defensive advantage of stealth was not applicable when fighting a thief. Secondly, thief did far better sustained damage with similar potential burst, meaning that in a straight fight, thief would kill the mesmer. Thirdly, thief had mobility better than mesmer, meaning the mesmer couldn’t use mobility to avoid the thief.

Revenants have all this and more. Herald has a low cooldown aoe reveal, completely nullifying the capability of the mesmer to stealth. This is arguably even more punishing than just being outstealthed like thieves used to. Revenants don’t have the burst that thieves do, but they have insane sustained damage with sword and quickness on-demand. In a straight fight, the mesmer dies very fast. Lastly, between shiro teleport and unrelenting assault, the revenant is far harder to escape from than even the most persistent thief.

So please, do explain more about how power shatter actually has all these great defensive tools and that’s why we see them being played now…oh wait.

If you are losing to a rev on condi shatter we need to evaluate your gameplay to help you. Upload a video please so we can help.

I…don’t even know what to say. Mind going back and reading the posts you replied to? At least make a good faith effort to have an honest discussion, seriously.

Fay.2357:

Overall I think you’re correct, but something you may have neglected to consider is that a shiro revenant is as effective if not more effective than a thief at chasing down and applying heavy pressure to a mesmer. There’s a reason you still see nobody running power mesmer. It’s simply too fragile to match up to a lot of the meta classes, not just thief.

So, there’s still pretty heavy restrictions on what can and can’t be run as a mesmer, thief just isn’t the limiting factor anymore.

As irrelevant as Azukas’ response to this post of yours, pyro, I have to disagree as well. I’m among the small handful of people who ran power shatter this season, up to mid-diamond before I got stuck. The limiting factor was very much still thieves.

Your points on stealth and sustained-dps are correct but the most difficult part about facing a thief is their ability to teleport AWAY from you, allowing them to reset at any point and return at their leisure. This is something revenants can’t do, and I’ve found that I have far less trouble with power revenants than I do with a good thief.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

DeceiverX.8361:

I rarely if ever agree with Azukas. It isn’t doom and gloom, and the bunker mesmer meta was absolutely atrocious and yes that build in its entire concept absolutely deserved the ax based on almost unanimous player feedback.

I’m big into theory. I’ll leave this snippet I made day 1 of the alacrity nerfs here:

… the format rewards and puts emphasis on Chronomancers and mesmers, because they shut down a lot of other builds; they can burst harder than any other spec and offer a lot of team mobility and control of a fight, which depending on target prioritization, can swing the success of a fight massively. Since sPvP is taking a turn for offensive stats and removing pretty much the entire concept of the pure bunker tank, mesmers/chronomancers may potentially have a dramatic presence in high-skill groups for point control and counter-burst.

The mesmer is in a really awkward state. It has a profound impact on every single format and is almost always able to be useful, however none of its builds which are useful and very powerful among the game modes are very engaging to play, for their power comes from their relatively extreme utility of a few skills and wildly inconsistent performance between formats due to the nature of stat scaling and the math behind the class. Its only sense of power comes from 1v1 encounters, and the results here are very inconsistent between formats, for in WvW the class is much stronger relative to others than it is in sPvP.

Further, the thief is effectively no longer used in the format, so there is more leniency for mesmers in the competitive scene at the moment. My predictions are that as the meta evolves to include mesmers more as a counter to the unstoppable boon-heavy builds such as the scrapper and tempest (and to an extent reaper), if these overpowered builds are left unchecked, team wins on the competitive level will become more about team composition over mechanical skill more than they ever were, with counter-picking on the mesmer/thief level being the biggest deciding factors.

Both the mesmer and thief need substantial work to become competitive high-skill classes with the capacity to swing matches in their favor while not being overpowered, however this must also come paired with substantial nerfs to boons and sheer damage/sustain nerfs to tempest, revenant, and scrapper.

Overall I think you’re correct, but something you may have neglected to consider is that a shiro revenant is as effective if not more effective than a thief at chasing down and applying heavy pressure to a mesmer. There’s a reason you still see nobody running power mesmer. It’s simply too fragile to match up to a lot of the meta classes, not just thief.

So, there’s still pretty heavy restrictions on what can and can’t be run as a mesmer, thief just isn’t the limiting factor anymore.

Revs do not counter like a thief did at one point. Even power shatter has many tools to keep this from happening.

They absolutely do.

Thieves countered mesmer for a couple main reasons. Firstly, they could easily outstealth mesmer, meaning the defensive advantage of stealth was not applicable when fighting a thief. Secondly, thief did far better sustained damage with similar potential burst, meaning that in a straight fight, thief would kill the mesmer. Thirdly, thief had mobility better than mesmer, meaning the mesmer couldn’t use mobility to avoid the thief.

Revenants have all this and more. Herald has a low cooldown aoe reveal, completely nullifying the capability of the mesmer to stealth. This is arguably even more punishing than just being outstealthed like thieves used to. Revenants don’t have the burst that thieves do, but they have insane sustained damage with sword and quickness on-demand. In a straight fight, the mesmer dies very fast. Lastly, between shiro teleport and unrelenting assault, the revenant is far harder to escape from than even the most persistent thief.

So please, do explain more about how power shatter actually has all these great defensive tools and that’s why we see them being played now…oh wait.

If you are losing to a rev on condi shatter we need to evaluate your gameplay to help you. Upload a video please so we can help.

I…don’t even know what to say. Mind going back and reading the posts you replied to? At least make a good faith effort to have an honest discussion, seriously.

There was no Chronomancer line back then and since that time Mesmers have more defensive tools to deal with the problems of the past. Just by that logic we know that Power Shatter is more equipped to deal with it’s counters.

I never said Power Shatter wasn’t at a disadvantage vs Revenant. I said they are no where near at the disadvantage that they were against S/D thieves back in the day.

The reason I left this part out was I assumed you just didn’t read my post right and was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

according to what fay.2357 says he probably didnt play gw2 since the release of HoT

SPNKr.6208:

Fay.2357:

Overall I think you’re correct, but something you may have neglected to consider is that a shiro revenant is as effective if not more effective than a thief at chasing down and applying heavy pressure to a mesmer. There’s a reason you still see nobody running power mesmer. It’s simply too fragile to match up to a lot of the meta classes, not just thief.

So, there’s still pretty heavy restrictions on what can and can’t be run as a mesmer, thief just isn’t the limiting factor anymore.

As irrelevant as Azukas’ response to this post of yours, pyro, I have to disagree as well. I’m among the small handful of people who ran power shatter this season, up to mid-diamond before I got stuck. The limiting factor was very much still thieves.

Your points on stealth and sustained-dps are correct but the most difficult part about facing a thief is their ability to teleport AWAY from you, allowing them to reset at any point and return at their leisure. This is something revenants can’t do, and I’ve found that I have far less trouble with power revenants than I do with a good thief.

As a power mesmer vs thief it really comes down to personal skill I feel, and what build the both of you are running. Now we’ve all faced those dirty thieves who are just stupid good at their class. Afterwards even I found myself saying “#@$%^ hard counter BS”. Though I did learn to replay them fights in my head to find out where my errors were, and in most instances those players just capitalized on my mistakes.

I remember fighting this one thief around July of last year, and he whipped my kitten good. I literally had no shot. I gave the ole @$(&%#( response, but then I sat and thought about our fights in the match. I realized somethings. Every time I went stealth he KNEW where I was. It was uncanny and alarming. He’d stealth and I’d respond with my own stealth to bleed out his resources. Then BAM I’d eat a Backstab after 2 seconds of being in stealth. He also dodged most of my mantras like he had some 6th sense. Crazy kitten man crazy kitten.

Now I fight revenants and I find that their reveal doesn’t matter that much to me cause stealthing at range is the norm. They can’t really get away from me, and their big hitting skills are easily countered by the fact we kitten out extra targets + other active defenses.

fact it guys. some of you can play power shatter yes good for you. but it handle poorly versus good team. the dmg is rather low compare to thief and rev. thief can counter you and same good rev (agree with Pyro) . rev has more dodge than you , disengage and engage and good one can know how to utilize it to counter power mesmer

now condi mesmer is counter to power builds cause of mercenery with higher vitality and toughness. while with rabid amulet you were weak against conditions and some burst dmg (which got buff more) and carrion which was weak versus power builds condi mesmer had bit hard time before.

Azukas.1426:

SPNKr.6208:

Fay.2357:

Overall I think you’re correct, but something you may have neglected to consider is that a shiro revenant is as effective if not more effective than a thief at chasing down and applying heavy pressure to a mesmer. There’s a reason you still see nobody running power mesmer. It’s simply too fragile to match up to a lot of the meta classes, not just thief.

So, there’s still pretty heavy restrictions on what can and can’t be run as a mesmer, thief just isn’t the limiting factor anymore.

As irrelevant as Azukas’ response to this post of yours, pyro, I have to disagree as well. I’m among the small handful of people who ran power shatter this season, up to mid-diamond before I got stuck. The limiting factor was very much still thieves.

Your points on stealth and sustained-dps are correct but the most difficult part about facing a thief is their ability to teleport AWAY from you, allowing them to reset at any point and return at their leisure. This is something revenants can’t do, and I’ve found that I have far less trouble with power revenants than I do with a good thief.

As a power mesmer vs thief it really comes down to personal skill I feel, and what build the both of you are running. Now we’ve all faced those dirty thieves who are just stupid good at their class. Afterwards even I found myself saying “#@$%^ hard counter BS”. Though I did learn to replay them fights in my head to find out where my errors were, and in most instances those players just capitalized on my mistakes.

I remember fighting this one thief around July of last year, and he whipped my kitten good. I literally had no shot. I gave the ole @$(&%#( response, but then I sat and thought about our fights in the match. I realized somethings. Every time I went stealth he KNEW where I was. It was uncanny and alarming. He’d stealth and I’d respond with my own stealth to bleed out his resources. Then BAM I’d eat a Backstab after 2 seconds of being in stealth. He also dodged most of my mantras like he had some 6th sense. Crazy kitten man crazy kitten.

Now I fight revenants and I find that their reveal doesn’t matter that much to me cause stealthing at range is the norm. They can’t really get away from me, and their big hitting skills are easily countered by the fact we kitten out extra targets + other active defenses.

This is the big thing. Mesmer loses a lot of potential against the thief and not so much the revenant because of target-breaking with stealth. Shatters, GS skills, moa, etc., all have pretty much no use when they can’t select a target. The rev absolutely applies better pressure than the thief, and is why it’s taken primarily as the premiere +1 class now, however nothing currently still counters the mesmer as well as a more-or-less meta D/P thief.

As far as tracking stealth goes, it’s a skill that often comes when playing as a stealth class. It is for this reason the most common suggestion people make when it comes to learning how to beat a thief is to simply play as one for a while. Common movement patterns in how people handle being in stealth begin to emerge, making stealth play predictable the more and more you play with it and play against it. This is my biggest argument about why I think PU as a trait is overpowered; it removes the predictability of stealth in many cases, potentially punishing really good play or rewarding poor play.

If the boons were ordered specifically and the randomness removed, the mesmer would still get its benefits and could combo knowing the boon order, but opponents could counterplay the trait better through really skilled play both by tracking stealthed movements and keeping track of boon timers, which at this level should always be rewarded with the expected result happening.

The mesmer in its current state needs a lot of work. Innate burst is problematic for balance reasons, especially when the damage isn’t acquired through damage modifiers. I think the thief is well-designed in this regard, for to get damage on the thief, one must invest heavily into it, often at the cost of defenses and utility. Simply buffing the mesmer is just out of the question, however, because those who have played WvW know well that a full defensive trait configuration running ridiculous amounts of chain blocks/invulns can still 100-0 warriors, since shatter burst is just so high baseline. With this, the mesmer has little room for growth, and over-dependence on shatter and powerful niche utilities makes the class feel unrewarding in many aspects of play. I’m not an expert mesmer or frankly in a position to really talk numbers at the moment, so I’m unsure what a good solution may be exactly, but the current class model isn’t sustainable unless either the sPvP/WvW stat disparity is removed (and I favor WvW stats (still with inaccessibility to certain gear configurations like dire/perplexity/trapper runes etc.) in sPvP since WvW is also PvE and many more builds are viable in WvW), or the class as a whole gets re-worked with multi-format balance and scaling in mind.

@Lexander: If you could keep your contributions to a minimum, that would be perfect, thanks.

@SPNKr: Revs certainly can disengage like a thief, but it does take more situational awareness for them to do so. If they have that awareness though, shiro porting to a distant target is a more effective instant disengage than almost anything a thief has.

@SPNKr and Azukas and DecieverX: One substantial thing that the rev has over thief when fighting Chronomancer in particular is their innate/passive defenses to cc. Thief is just as vulnerable to being cc-locked and burst as it always has been and chrono has picked up some potent cc. A rev, on the other hand, has the passive taunt bs that’s liable to let them autoattack away 50% of your health if you have the audacity to try and cc them. The stability on dodge also gives them enormous defense to the offensive control that power Mesmer really relies on to stay alive.

@DecieverX: Saying a Mesmer can 100-0 a warrior in a defensive setup is like saying a warrior can 100-0 a Mesmer…if they politely stand and eat a full 100b+arcing slice. Yeah, it’s mathematically possible to do, but it’s not something that actually occurs unless you’re fighting scrubs.

Or you know, you either catch them off guard or bait their dodges and defenses like you’re supposed to when playing burst anything.

Fay.2357:

@Lexander: If you could keep your contributions to a minimum, that would be perfect, thanks.

@SPNKr: Revs certainly can disengage like a thief, but it does take more situational awareness for them to do so. If they have that awareness though, shiro porting to a distant target is a more effective instant disengage than almost anything a thief has.

@SPNKr and Azukas and DecieverX: One substantial thing that the rev has over thief when fighting Chronomancer in particular is their innate/passive defenses to cc. Thief is just as vulnerable to being cc-locked and burst as it always has been and chrono has picked up some potent cc. A rev, on the other hand, has the passive taunt bs that’s liable to let them autoattack away 50% of your health if you have the audacity to try and cc them. The stability on dodge also gives them enormous defense to the offensive control that power Mesmer really relies on to stay alive.

@DecieverX: Saying a Mesmer can 100-0 a warrior in a defensive setup is like saying a warrior can 100-0 a Mesmer…if they politely stand and eat a full 100b+arcing slice. Yeah, it’s mathematically possible to do, but it’s not something that actually occurs unless you’re fighting scrubs.

have you ever agreed with anyone on something except of mesmer needing huge buffs