Guild Wars 2

DeceiverX.8361:

Or you know, you either catch them off guard or bait their dodges and defenses like you’re supposed to when playing burst anything.

Sure, but you can do that on almost any class while specced for burst and accomplish a similar effect. Mesmers definitely don’t have a monopoly on high burst damage in this game.

DeceiverX.8361:

Azukas.1426:

SPNKr.6208:

Fay.2357:

Overall I think you’re correct, but something you may have neglected to consider is that a shiro revenant is as effective if not more effective than a thief at chasing down and applying heavy pressure to a mesmer. There’s a reason you still see nobody running power mesmer. It’s simply too fragile to match up to a lot of the meta classes, not just thief.

So, there’s still pretty heavy restrictions on what can and can’t be run as a mesmer, thief just isn’t the limiting factor anymore.

As irrelevant as Azukas’ response to this post of yours, pyro, I have to disagree as well. I’m among the small handful of people who ran power shatter this season, up to mid-diamond before I got stuck. The limiting factor was very much still thieves.

Your points on stealth and sustained-dps are correct but the most difficult part about facing a thief is their ability to teleport AWAY from you, allowing them to reset at any point and return at their leisure. This is something revenants can’t do, and I’ve found that I have far less trouble with power revenants than I do with a good thief.

As a power mesmer vs thief it really comes down to personal skill I feel, and what build the both of you are running. Now we’ve all faced those dirty thieves who are just stupid good at their class. Afterwards even I found myself saying “#@$%^ hard counter BS”. Though I did learn to replay them fights in my head to find out where my errors were, and in most instances those players just capitalized on my mistakes.

I remember fighting this one thief around July of last year, and he whipped my kitten good. I literally had no shot. I gave the ole @$(&%#( response, but then I sat and thought about our fights in the match. I realized somethings. Every time I went stealth he KNEW where I was. It was uncanny and alarming. He’d stealth and I’d respond with my own stealth to bleed out his resources. Then BAM I’d eat a Backstab after 2 seconds of being in stealth. He also dodged most of my mantras like he had some 6th sense. Crazy kitten man crazy kitten.

Now I fight revenants and I find that their reveal doesn’t matter that much to me cause stealthing at range is the norm. They can’t really get away from me, and their big hitting skills are easily countered by the fact we kitten out extra targets + other active defenses.

This is the big thing. Mesmer loses a lot of potential against the thief and not so much the revenant because of target-breaking with stealth. Shatters, GS skills, moa, etc., all have pretty much no use when they can’t select a target. The rev absolutely applies better pressure than the thief, and is why it’s taken primarily as the premiere +1 class now, however nothing currently still counters the mesmer as well as a more-or-less meta D/P thief.

As far as tracking stealth goes, it’s a skill that often comes when playing as a stealth class. It is for this reason the most common suggestion people make when it comes to learning how to beat a thief is to simply play as one for a while. Common movement patterns in how people handle being in stealth begin to emerge, making stealth play predictable the more and more you play with it and play against it. This is my biggest argument about why I think PU as a trait is overpowered; it removes the predictability of stealth in many cases, potentially punishing really good play or rewarding poor play.

If the boons were ordered specifically and the randomness removed, the mesmer would still get its benefits and could combo knowing the boon order, but opponents could counterplay the trait better through really skilled play both by tracking stealthed movements and keeping track of boon timers, which at this level should always be rewarded with the expected result happening.

The mesmer in its current state needs a lot of work. Innate burst is problematic for balance reasons, especially when the damage isn’t acquired through damage modifiers. I think the thief is well-designed in this regard, for to get damage on the thief, one must invest heavily into it, often at the cost of defenses and utility. Simply buffing the mesmer is just out of the question, however, because those who have played WvW know well that a full defensive trait configuration running ridiculous amounts of chain blocks/invulns can still 100-0 warriors, since shatter burst is just so high baseline. With this, the mesmer has little room for growth, and over-dependence on shatter and powerful niche utilities makes the class feel unrewarding in many aspects of play. I’m not an expert mesmer or frankly in a position to really talk numbers at the moment, so I’m unsure what a good solution may be exactly, but the current class model isn’t sustainable unless either the sPvP/WvW stat disparity is removed (and I favor WvW stats (still with inaccessibility to certain gear configurations like dire/perplexity/trapper runes etc.) in sPvP since WvW is also PvE and many more builds are viable in WvW), or the class as a whole gets re-worked with multi-format balance and scaling in mind.

Feels like you’re going off on a little of a tangent here. It’s ok we all do it at times. Though I have to look at why you are bringing up WvW in this PvP thread. Also why bring up PU as well since it’s not in use in PvP.

As for meta DP daredevil thief I feel it in no way counters meta mesmer. In fact we could even say since June 23rd it didn’t counter mesmer.

Forgive me if I’m a bit confused as to the point of your post because I don’t see mesmer needing a ton of things over the 3 hurting classes.

Fay.2357:

A rev, on the other hand, has the passive taunt bs that’s liable to let them autoattack away 50% of your health if you have the audacity to try and cc them.

As a side note, this has to be one of the most annoying passive gameplay elements. Not to mention that you can get the bug unable to move or use skills at the same time.

I wish Anet would delete all of these passive proc traits across the classes and replace them with interesting choices – but I guess that would be too much work…

Curunen.8729:

Fay.2357:

A rev, on the other hand, has the passive taunt bs that’s liable to let them autoattack away 50% of your health if you have the audacity to try and cc them.

As a side note, this has to be one of the most annoying passive gameplay elements. Not to mention that you can get the bug unable to move or use skills at the same time.

I wish Anet would delete all of these passive proc traits across the classes and replace them with interesting choices – but I guess that would be too much work…

I agree with the eye for an eye, it’s just too much in a trait. Protection and a 3s CC on a kitten CD requiring no user interaction. Though I think they really need to sort taunt out in general as it’s probably one of the strongest forms of CC in the game atm.

That’s without mentioning the amount of times that it bugs out your character making you stuck unable to move, use skills and have to /dance your way out of it. Had that happen when fighting a ranger, only reason he could get away and survive was because I spent 4s unable to do anything every 15s due to beastly warden.

Yeah, having to /sit or whatever your way out of the rev’s passive taunt and ranger’s pet taunt is awful and often leads to you losing a lot of health if not being killed.

That’s one other reason I like mainhand sword because blurred frenzy fixes this bug allowing you to move again, and it’s a lot easier than having to type an emote in chat…

Silverkey.2078:

Azukas.1426:

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Yes sure, we are not in the worst place, like guardian, thief or warrior. But saying mesmer is fine and needs nothing is just a joke.

I wouldn’t put too much merit into the OP’s position on this. He used the exact same “How many of this class in PVP teams during tournament?” premise for nerfing Revenants.

Obtena.7952:

Silverkey.2078:

Azukas.1426:

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Yes sure, we are not in the worst place, like guardian, thief or warrior. But saying mesmer is fine and needs nothing is just a joke.

I wouldn’t put too much merit into the OP’s position on this. He used the exact same “How many of this class in PVP teams during tournament?” premise for nerfing Revenants.

Yet I’m right beyond a shadow of doubt.

It’s ok to not like the truth and you’re welcome to your opinion. Yet when facts are facts it’s time to listen.

Thanks

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Silverkey.2078:

Azukas.1426:

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Yes sure, we are not in the worst place, like guardian, thief or warrior. But saying mesmer is fine and needs nothing is just a joke.

I wouldn’t put too much merit into the OP’s position on this. He used the exact same “How many of this class in PVP teams during tournament?” premise for nerfing Revenants.

Yet I’m right beyond a shadow of doubt.

It’s ok to not like the truth and you’re welcome to your opinion. Yet when facts are facts it’s time to listen.

Thanks

Obviously the topic in question has no vital importance, so this sort of unique attitude has also no vital importance. I hope very much though that you are never placed in a position where listening to others, considering information and making objective decisions are vitally important, both for your sake and for those who would be depending on you.

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Silverkey.2078:

Azukas.1426:

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Yes sure, we are not in the worst place, like guardian, thief or warrior. But saying mesmer is fine and needs nothing is just a joke.

I wouldn’t put too much merit into the OP’s position on this. He used the exact same “How many of this class in PVP teams during tournament?” premise for nerfing Revenants.

Yet I’m right beyond a shadow of doubt.

It’s ok to not like the truth and you’re welcome to your opinion. Yet when facts are facts it’s time to listen.

Thanks

If Rev’s are so OP’ed like you claim because they were stacked in PVP tournaments … where are all the OP’ed Rev teams? Why did some teams defeat Mesmer moa combos?

No, I think what you do is make bad correlations. Just like the Rev isn’t OP’ed because it was stacked in PVP, neither is the Mesmer meta. People win because of skill and knowledge of themselves and their enemies, not because they play meta or stack classes.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Silverkey.2078:

Azukas.1426:

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Yes sure, we are not in the worst place, like guardian, thief or warrior. But saying mesmer is fine and needs nothing is just a joke.

I wouldn’t put too much merit into the OP’s position on this. He used the exact same “How many of this class in PVP teams during tournament?” premise for nerfing Revenants.

Yet I’m right beyond a shadow of doubt.

It’s ok to not like the truth and you’re welcome to your opinion. Yet when facts are facts it’s time to listen.

Thanks

Obviously the topic in question has no vital importance, so this sort of unique attitude has also no vital importance. I hope very much though that you are never placed in a position where listening to others, considering information and making objective decisions are vitally important, both for your sake and for those who would be depending on you.

If you only knew what I do for a living you’d prolly eat those words lol.

Either way it doesn’t matter we’ve already seen what your goals are.

Have fun in BnS

Obtena.7952:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Silverkey.2078:

Azukas.1426:

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Yes sure, we are not in the worst place, like guardian, thief or warrior. But saying mesmer is fine and needs nothing is just a joke.

I wouldn’t put too much merit into the OP’s position on this. He used the exact same “How many of this class in PVP teams during tournament?” premise for nerfing Revenants.

Yet I’m right beyond a shadow of doubt.

It’s ok to not like the truth and you’re welcome to your opinion. Yet when facts are facts it’s time to listen.

Thanks

If Rev’s are so OP’ed like you claim because they were stacked in PVP tournaments … where are all the OP’ed Rev teams? Why did some teams defeat Mesmer moa combos?

No, I think what you do is make bad correlations. Just like the Rev isn’t OP’ed because it was stacked in PVP, neither is the Mesmer meta. People win because of skill and knowledge of themselves and their enemies, not because they play meta or stack classes.

I’m not sure if are up to date with the current events.

Also you might want to check where the reasoning of a profession being stack means it is over performing comes from.

Here’s a hint it begins with A and ends with T

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Silverkey.2078:

Azukas.1426:

More teams ran mesmer than teams that did not. The best teams ran mesmer, and i’m willing to bet week 2 will see most teams copying the composition that the last NA game ran.

As a mesmer main I can honestly say Anet did a great job with my class in terms of nerfing/balancing. We remain in the meta and not super OP. We can contribute in all aspects of a match. We as a class are FINE and need nothing.

If you can’t see this then you should look at the 3 classes that are actually hurting at this time.

Yes sure, we are not in the worst place, like guardian, thief or warrior. But saying mesmer is fine and needs nothing is just a joke.

I wouldn’t put too much merit into the OP’s position on this. He used the exact same “How many of this class in PVP teams during tournament?” premise for nerfing Revenants.

Yet I’m right beyond a shadow of doubt.

It’s ok to not like the truth and you’re welcome to your opinion. Yet when facts are facts it’s time to listen.

Thanks

If Rev’s are so OP’ed like you claim because they were stacked in PVP tournaments … where are all the OP’ed Rev teams? Why did some teams defeat Mesmer moa combos?

No, I think what you do is make bad correlations. Just like the Rev isn’t OP’ed because it was stacked in PVP, neither is the Mesmer meta. People win because of skill and knowledge of themselves and their enemies, not because they play meta or stack classes.

I’m not sure if are up to date with the current events.

Also you might want to check where the reasoning of a profession being stack means it is over performing comes from.

Here’s a hint it begins with A and ends with T

“A revenanT”

i think the mes sub forum is the most vocal in terms of qq over nerfs.

just an observation.

Stand The Wall.6987:

i think the mes sub forum is the most vocal in terms of qq over nerfs.

just an observation.

lol

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Daishi.6027:

Although I agree ChronoBunk (bunks in general even) along with old turret engine needed to be toned down. I don’t think anyone ever complained about clone death. And glamor was only decent in WvW and was silly since you could counter it really easily.

I’m guessing you weren’t there for the making of the video that killed glamour. How many mesmers you think it took to kill an entire map blob?

Research it and then get back to me because anet killed it before pvp felt it. Also confusion damage was different in pvp vs pve.

Back then zergs didn’t have condition removal. Not our fault that they were just mindless blobs that wrecked themselves on confusion. Sounds like you’re salty cause you got killed that way back then.

Finally found the video

Took me awhile, but this video got glamour nerfed..

Stand The Wall.6987:

i think the mes sub forum is the most vocal in terms of qq over nerfs.

just an observation.

You must not have visited the thief forum when they had posts about having their characters commit suicide or the ranger forum ever. The mesmer forum is actually one of the better ones as far as qq. Its problem is that it often has mesmers proposing their own nerfs for the class. And of course, more people come here to complain about mesmers than they do for any other class. Except maybe thief, people still complain about its stealth.

My only real aggravation is the fact that PvP balance adjustments effect PvE. PvE playing mesmers are effected by the so-called balancing made what appears to be solely based upon PvP results.

Wish Anet would totally separate all traits and skills between PvP and PvE so one doesn’t effect the other.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Daishi.6027:

Although I agree ChronoBunk (bunks in general even) along with old turret engine needed to be toned down. I don’t think anyone ever complained about clone death. And glamor was only decent in WvW and was silly since you could counter it really easily.

I’m guessing you weren’t there for the making of the video that killed glamour. How many mesmers you think it took to kill an entire map blob?

Research it and then get back to me because anet killed it before pvp felt it. Also confusion damage was different in pvp vs pve.

Back then zergs didn’t have condition removal. Not our fault that they were just mindless blobs that wrecked themselves on confusion. Sounds like you’re salty cause you got killed that way back then.

Finally found the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS9W0R25ZK4

Took me awhile, but this video got glamour nerfed..

(because the mod deleted my post because another post got deleted I guess I’ll write this post again)

Nothing about that video is inconsistent with what I wrote. I know why glamour got nerfed, but the reasons were awful and it was a stupid decision. Even if confusion was back to its old strength, even if we had all the glamour traits back the way we used to, using a glamour build in WvW today would be marginally effective at best. The way WvW is played and the composition of the groups would make it both difficult to use at all, and would result in confusion being cleansed nearly instantly.

4 mesmers killed a map blob and the entire time the commentary just highlights how absurd it all is

Azukas.1426:

4 mesmers killed a map blob and the entire time the commentary just highlights how absurd it all is

Yeah, cause the map blob decided to run back and forth through a bunch of glamours while spamming skills and never use a single group cleanse.

I’m not entirely sure what’s difficult to understand about this. 4 mesmers killed a bunch of garbage players with an easy to avoid mechanic because all of those players were absolute garbage. It wasn’t overpowered, it was just strong against stupid people.

Azukas.1426:

4 mesmers killed a map blob and the entire time the commentary just highlights how absurd it all is

Didn’t the TUTORIAL level teach you that red circles are bad? 5 necros could do the same kitten thing with only staff marks. Not a single person dodged in that video and instead beelined toward the champ, your point is moot.

I’m seeing at least 10 uplevels in that blob…probably did miss the tutorial.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

4 mesmers killed a map blob and the entire time the commentary just highlights how absurd it all is

Yeah, cause the map blob decided to run back and forth through a bunch of glamours while spamming skills and never use a single group cleanse.

I’m not entirely sure what’s difficult to understand about this. 4 mesmers killed a bunch of garbage players with an easy to avoid mechanic because all of those players were absolute garbage. It wasn’t overpowered, it was just strong against stupid people.

Oh, there’s that “skilled players win games” thing again. I’m so glad some people substitute calls for nerfing with recognizing that being good at something matters.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

4 mesmers killed a map blob and the entire time the commentary just highlights how absurd it all is

Yeah, cause the map blob decided to run back and forth through a bunch of glamours while spamming skills and never use a single group cleanse.

I’m not entirely sure what’s difficult to understand about this. 4 mesmers killed a bunch of garbage players with an easy to avoid mechanic because all of those players were absolute garbage. It wasn’t overpowered, it was just strong against stupid people.

Didn’t notice the portals huh?

Either way you can’t defend that with a straight face….

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

4 mesmers killed a map blob and the entire time the commentary just highlights how absurd it all is

Yeah, cause the map blob decided to run back and forth through a bunch of glamours while spamming skills and never use a single group cleanse.

I’m not entirely sure what’s difficult to understand about this. 4 mesmers killed a bunch of garbage players with an easy to avoid mechanic because all of those players were absolute garbage. It wasn’t overpowered, it was just strong against stupid people.

Didn’t notice the portals huh?

Either way you can’t defend that with a straight face….

So again by your own definition of logic. Just fix the issue with portal not gut, forget gut how about obliterate a whole build. We have been trying desperately for you to see this. Yet this logic has bounced off you. Sort of like pre school. I’m rubber your glue whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

4 mesmers killed a map blob and the entire time the commentary just highlights how absurd it all is

Yeah, cause the map blob decided to run back and forth through a bunch of glamours while spamming skills and never use a single group cleanse.

I’m not entirely sure what’s difficult to understand about this. 4 mesmers killed a bunch of garbage players with an easy to avoid mechanic because all of those players were absolute garbage. It wasn’t overpowered, it was just strong against stupid people.

Didn’t notice the portals huh?

Either way you can’t defend that with a straight face….

Maybe if you had thought to bring a single condition removal, your zergs wouldn’t have gotten smushed by a one trick pony.

That’s the only explanation I can find for the incredible ineffectiveness of logic here. You must have been on the receiving side of a lot of glamour smack downs back then. Maybe try not holding down 1?

Azukas.1426:

Finally found the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS9W0R25ZK4

Took me awhile, but this video got glamour nerfed..

I can’t believe we used to die to stuff like that

I remember putting portals at choke points and then staff eles in zergs would die to like 4 stacks of confusion because nobody paid any attention to anything. I remember people complaining about it in chat on my server and when told about condition cleansing they would get irritated that they had to allocate part of their build to removing conditions. The game was still pretty young and very few people (including myself) knew how to play in WvW

People still complain about having to bring condition removal.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

4 mesmers killed a map blob and the entire time the commentary just highlights how absurd it all is

Yeah, cause the map blob decided to run back and forth through a bunch of glamours while spamming skills and never use a single group cleanse.

I’m not entirely sure what’s difficult to understand about this. 4 mesmers killed a bunch of garbage players with an easy to avoid mechanic because all of those players were absolute garbage. It wasn’t overpowered, it was just strong against stupid people.

Didn’t notice the portals huh?

Either way you can’t defend that with a straight face….

Maybe if you had thought to bring a single condition removal, your zergs wouldn’t have gotten smushed by a one trick pony.

That’s the only explanation I can find for the incredible ineffectiveness of logic here. You must have been on the receiving side of a lot of glamour smack downs back then. Maybe try not holding down 1?

Oh no I was an abuser of glamours not a victim lol. The people in that video were actually pioneers in WvW.

Granted that was back when WvW was actually good lol

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I’m seeing at least 10 uplevels in that blob…probably did miss the tutorial.

This is what I first noticed. WvW was totally different then, and I don’t think it’s an accurate measure of the class itself/the glamour kit being that OP. Upon reaching 80 and gearing up, I recall an instance of winning a 1v13 on my glass cannon thief. The players were worse and weren’t as well-geared, despite being an uplevel back in the day being less punishing than now since traits were acquired much earlier.

That said, my first guild did run five mesmers out of only fifteen people for what was the most insane portal play I’ve witnessed (LONG LIVE THE PENTAPORTAL!) , and glamour was absolutely bonkers.

As far as glamour goes, again, gutted for dueling. Still the most powerful mesmer build in group play WvW and is frequently sought-after.

I mentioned WvW, Azukas, because if you just buff the mesmer as it is now for the sake of PvP, it becomes wildly overpowered in WvW. Strength in all formats typically affects balance adjustments, which is why the thief and warrior are not buffed despite their fairly blatant under-performance in sPvP, and why of all things, the thief received an AA damage increase as a “balance” measure and the warrior got QoL love on the rifle. Since the thief was sub-par at everything due to the revenant taking all of its roles, ANet decided for Raiding’s sake to buff the thief’s damage to make the class at least have some purpose in some format, and gave the rifle love because it was medicore in WvW, pretty terrible in sPvP, and useless in raids. All three modes are considered while balancing, and this is why the game isn’t balanced in any format. Unifying stats to PvE levels in sPvP would enable ANet to balance everything for higher stats and take scaling into account, and thus could balance all the formats at once. Seeing as there’s around 60% less damage in sPvP than in PvE and WvW for “competitive reasons,” the game won’t be balanced properly and asking for changes will have no yields so long as a build is useful or strong in one format.

DeceiverX.8361:

As far as glamour goes, again, gutted for dueling. Still the most powerful mesmer build in group play WvW and is frequently sought-after.

That’s awfully disingenuous. Nobody cares about a glamour build, they just want veil and portal on demand like they always have. You could be naked with no weapons or traits and still be just as useful as long as you veil in front and portal when told.

A PvP thread turned WvW thread.

Fay.2357:

DeceiverX.8361:

As far as glamour goes, again, gutted for dueling. Still the most powerful mesmer build in group play WvW and is frequently sought-after.

That’s awfully disingenuous. Nobody cares about a glamour build, they just want veil and portal on demand like they always have. You could be naked with no weapons or traits and still be just as useful as long as you veil in front and portal when told.

Not really. A lot of commanders explicitly tell mesmers to run glamour builds, because all of the skills are conducive to group fighting (as necro wells are), and TE is a very powerful effect to give frontline forces. Null Field and Feedback are way better to have for the front line than say, MoP, and Portal is typically a slot-out-while fighting; slot-in-for-surprise skill since it has little value in fights with 800-100 people engaged, particularly with pirate ship.

Fay.2357:

DeceiverX.8361:

As far as glamour goes, again, gutted for dueling. Still the most powerful mesmer build in group play WvW and is frequently sought-after.

That’s awfully disingenuous. Nobody cares about a glamour build, they just want veil and portal on demand like they always have. You could be naked with no weapons or traits and still be just as useful as long as you veil in front and portal when told.

QFT

phokus.8934:

A PvP thread turned WvW thread.

Yeah need to get back on track after showing how needed the glamour nerf was.

Either mesmer meta 2016

C’mon guys let’s keep this clean and get this going like the adults we are.

Thanks

Being reduced to a portal and moa bot isn’t anything to celebrate. If people think this is progress I despair.

Vague Memory.2817:

Being reduced to a portal and moa bot isn’t anything to celebrate. If people think this is progress I despair.

Yet the pro scene pretty much deems mesmer S class.

We’re prolly going to get nerfed. So just get ready for it

Vague Memory.2817:

Being reduced to a portal and moa bot isn’t anything to celebrate. If people think this is progress I despair.

Yup, the pro scene only tells us one thing; It’s not the class that’s the problem, it’s the moa/portal. Anyone that mistakes that as a good thing or as a statement about the rank for Mesmer as a PVP class doesn’t have a clue.

Well another week of pro league and Mesmer being God tier has been solidified

Gratz boys we ad still on top of the world

Look we know you can’t tell the difference between pro league using portal and the random troll cleric mesmer that keeps kicking your kitten in hot join but we don’t need an update everytime it happens.

Levetty.1279:

Look we know you can’t tell the difference between pro league using portal and the random troll cleric mesmer that keeps kicking your kitten in hot join but we don’t need an update everytime it happens.

Expressing exuberance for having arguably the strongest class in the game is a natural reaction. This is more so special because we just got nuked with the nerf bat last patch.

Join me in the gaiety!!

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

Look we know you can’t tell the difference between pro league using portal and the random troll cleric mesmer that keeps kicking your kitten in hot join but we don’t need an update everytime it happens.

Expressing exuberance for having arguably the strongest class in the game is a natural reaction. This is more so special because we just got nuked with the nerf bat last patch.

Join me in the gaiety!!

Arguably the strongest class implies that one is capable of discussion about it. Since that description obviously doesn’t fit, you should probably stay away from that turn of phrase.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

Look we know you can’t tell the difference between pro league using portal and the random troll cleric mesmer that keeps kicking your kitten in hot join but we don’t need an update everytime it happens.

Expressing exuberance for having arguably the strongest class in the game is a natural reaction. This is more so special because we just got nuked with the nerf bat last patch.

Join me in the gaiety!!

Arguably the strongest class implies that one is capable of discussion about it. Since that description obviously doesn’t fit, you should probably stay away from that turn of phrase.

Yet the pros and shout casters agree with me. The only ones who don’t are the players who play mesmer at a low level.

The pros and shout casters think Mesmer is arguably the strongest class in the game? Must be nice for them to wallow in their own ignorance while living in that bubble. Good think we have such a small percentage of people with such an irrelevant opinion for the majority of the remaining non-pros and non-shoutcasters. I would be worried if more regular types were thinking this, it might actually be believable.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

Look we know you can’t tell the difference between pro league using portal and the random troll cleric mesmer that keeps kicking your kitten in hot join but we don’t need an update everytime it happens.

Expressing exuberance for having arguably the strongest class in the game is a natural reaction. This is more so special because we just got nuked with the nerf bat last patch.

Join me in the gaiety!!

Arguably the strongest class implies that one is capable of discussion about it. Since that description obviously doesn’t fit, you should probably stay away from that turn of phrase.

Yet the pros and shout casters agree with me. The only ones who don’t are the players who play mesmer at a low level.

“pros and shout casters agree with me. The only one who don’t are the players who play mesme at a low level”

I disagree with you
Starting a tread that mesmer is meta after the no class stacking rule is up
Ignore that the only working build right now that is the mercenary condi build
Ignore that clones are easily kill in aoe or even auto attack

Mesmer is OP, yeah right

Azukas.1426:

Yet the pros and shout casters agree with me. The only ones who don’t are the players who play mesmer at a low level.

All 18 of them. Reeeeaaaaaally statistically relevant sample size you got there!

Sorry to say this but as far as class balance goes, eSports flat out doesn’t matter. There’s factually no eSports in GW2, there’s no way to obtain any meaningful data from it. I wish ANet would just give up on it because it is just sad at this point.

If there were no stacking rule mesmer would be replaced by another rev.

Ananeos.4587:

If there were no stacking rule mesmer would be replaced by another rev.

I honestly don’t know about that now that these teams are playing with mesmers. The kit they bring is just too good to pass up. Also condi shatter will beat all meta classes 1v1. This can guarantee you the need to 2v1 a mesmer on sides.

p.s. To the posters who disagree with me. I’m sorry but the truth is the truth. Since June 23rd 2015 we mesmers have had it easy, and we have been one of the best classes in the game. This is not debatable and is fact. You might have a different experience but that’s because of your skill level…not the class.

Thank You

Azukas.1426:

Since June 23rd 2015 we mesmers have had it easy, and we have been one of the best classes in the game. This is not debatable and is fact

Yes, totally not debatable. So, let me see, I play:

• Raid, as DPS
• Open World
• WvW zerg

Your point was?

Have you considered that sPvP is probably a minorit game mode, from all we can infer? Why would it’s balance even matter? Who cares, if it means you don’t base balance on what players actually play?

At least look at the well-played modes, that probably means open world performance, for balance decisions and overall power scaling. If you want to balance based on who has it easy or not.

I’m not saying that things are terrible (they are, but not on a mesmer-only level), but that basing balance considerations on a play mode which is irrelevant is a stupid idea, ignoring ofc that it plays a format which is again irrelevant because the majority of the game uses a different one (or different ones).