Guild Wars 2

I’m curious as to the intent behind the trait Deceptive Evasion (Master Trait slot X in Dueling). Is this trait intended to fulfill its name and deceive your opponent by forcing a target-drop? Currently, this trait does NOT remove the enemy’s target-lock on you.

I’ve spent hundreds of hours in WvWvW fighting Mesmers with this trait (and using this trait myself), and know first hand that this trait does not force a drop of target-lock.

A response from A.Net regarding the intent of this skill would truly be helpful. Is it simply a Clone-battery skill to empower Shatter builds? That is how it currently plays.

target loss would be great, i just hope this skill never gets nerfed because if it does, there will be no reason to play as a mes for me personally and if there’s no reason to play mes, there’s none to play gw2 as a whole so yeah…

the trait is used for clone generation in shatter builds. not for target dropping.

Having targetting drop every time a mesmer dodges would be infuriating, but a random chance to switch targetting to the clone – that I could handle.

Generating lots of clones fast. That’s what it’s for.

@Jayblah, this trait one of the core mecanism in any shatter build. Its also the main reason why the vigour buff is so extremly strong for shatter mesmers, more dodges = more clones = more dmg and defensive shatters + more might.

/Osicat

I’m aware. I mentioned that in my initial post. I want to know what A.Net’s intent is given the name. It’s currently not “deceptive” at all, except in PvE against AI.

Not just for shatter builds, for suicide condition builds, or for cripple/ranged solo PVE setups. As well.

Put bluntly, clone production helps us in all ways, defensively and offensively, especially depending on how you trait it. In PvP.

As far as it not being deceptive, you’re reading too litterally into the name, and that is asenine. This is already a highly powerful trait as it stands, let’s not buff it further or kill it.

Instead, we should be getting better traits in the other 3 lines of our builds that need some attention.

We aren’t suffering when it comes to clone production with or without D.E.. Dropping target would be fantastic, and fall in line with A.Net’s “tricky” philosophy for our class.

My main wish is that an A.Net dev addresses the question. Hey, one can dream right?

Jayblah.4682:

We aren’t suffering when it comes to clone production with or without D.E.. Dropping target would be fantastic, and fall in line with A.Net’s “tricky” philosophy for our class.

My main wish is that an A.Net dev addresses the question. Hey, one can dream right?

without DE, you can only make 2 illusions on average every 10 seconds with most weapon sets, without blowing cd’s on utilities. meaning in a fight, you can’t realistically ever get a 3x mind wrack off without DE.

also means you can only shatter once every 10 seconds or so, regardless of how you look at it, it’ll be a huge nerf to the class as a whole if they somehow reduced the clone generation rate on the trait.

There is a point at which we become a bit too strong.
I really want to keep us out of thief territory.
I really like the mesmer. I like how we have so many major and minor traits that flow so easily (and powerfully) into basic gameplay. DE is honestly one of the reasons I started playing mesmer, and it usually accomplishes most of what I need.

I don’t want to feel like I have a huge advantage over others. I don’t want to be able to out-DPS a warrior or thief. I want to feel it was my skill at deception that let me get the kill. If I wanted a class that is easy to slaughter with, I’d roll a thief.

Psychophant, Mesmer adjustments do not exist in a vaccume. Thief will always be easyplay to kill everyone because its skills are a First Order Operator, meaning they give the most performance for the initial skill.

Even with powerful traits, Mesmer requires a great deal of set up and execution to work properly. Deceptive evasion is just one ingredient, though it is a key one in any build that goes through illusions quickly for whatever reason.

Also, if you don’t want to be in thief territory, then you chose the wrong profession to begin with. Thieves and Mesmers are different sides of the same aesthetic coin, down even to sharing the same patron deity. These classes are inevitably going to be relate-able to one another, and detestable to players who hate slippery professions.

If anything, builds aside from shatter and condition specs need improvement. There are a lot of bugged or just ineffective traits and trait paths within mesmer that just don’t have a pourpose or serve a function, Mantras being our key note in this.

Secondly, this is ignoring any and all buffs provided to other Professions, some of which this patch were pretty good, and will likely be improving more as time goes on. This means there should be absolutely no reason why Mesmer itself cannot also improve.

I’m of the mind that Harmonious Mantras should be moved from a 30 trait to a 20 trait to start. As well as some other shuffling around of Mantra traits to make them more convenient on the bar to operate. I also think that the mantras themselves should be looked at, they just seem to primarily be tacked on and do not have a general working theme.

As far as ‘being able to out dps’ Thats Irrelevant argument. Every class should have the ability to do sizeable damage in this game, to the point where it can be on par with one another. Meaning, sometimes, yes, you should be out dpsing a thief or a Warrior circumstantially. It depends on how you’re building against what.

Ideally, there should be no class that completely dominates in any one of the trifecta of support, dps, and control. They should all work to varying effectiveness depending on the circumstance for each class.

So let’s not talk about “I don’t wanna preform well” in any of these circumstances. It’s foolish.

A target drop on a passive, roll-based ability? That would be insane, especially with the Vigor that Mesmer has access to. Its like a free mini-stealth every few seconds without any utility slot needed, no specific weapon or combo, just one single trait (and not even a Grandmaster trait).

A free clone is already great as it is. Any build aside from a Phantasm build will benefit from a free clone, whether it be in the form of an extra distraction, a meat shield to block a projectile, or shatter-fodder (especially keeping in mind that shattering is not build-specific, any Mesmer can shatter for 4 different effects, though obviously shatter builds benefit more). Its probably the best “on roll” ability in the game, at least IMO. Great adaptability, useful at any range.

It is a clone generator, and obviously our best one in most shatter builds.
I’m fine with that. Do not touch please.

Answer: The name has little to no relevance to the mechanic. And hey, that’s ok.

I wouldn’t mind if mirror images dropped the target.

^Even though off topic :P

Ummm I think it only drops target and AI reselects for PvE…?

IMO – our rate of set up vs burst could use some work.
We do about as much burst as any warrior or thief thanks to our recent buffs, and in some cases before (although it was a pain to get a mind wrack off while they have vaulnerbility pre 14/12)

But warriors have good over all tankyness more and “defensive skill verity”

And theifs just go invis get distance then attack again while you can’t even see or target.

Mesmers get clones – which really don’t do anything except
1. confuse low rank ppl.
2. Shatter fodder.
3. … Not much else? Oh I know something to die in AoE and by direct attacks cuz ya know dogging shatters isn’t super effective and easy as pie?

We have cloaks on 30+ sec cool downs and they don’t last very long and then we’re nothing but a theif who can’t cloak and require set up to do Dmg. With mobility skills on a high c/ d

I personally think dropping target on clone creation for all pvp scinerios wouldn’t be broken at all.

And if after testing numbers turn out dropping clone on every clone creation is OP the. Maybe a chance on all?.(tho ppl hate random numbers) Or only on specific moves. Including dueling X.

What would be nice with this trait is that clone would be linked to your target and if you don’t have any the closest one. It would give us a better control over the clones it generates. When it’s a 1v1, it’s not really a problem but when there are several ennemies it can be.

I think it´s okay that the oponent doesnt lose target.
Instead I wish for the clones produced on dodge to target my target instead of a random enemy nearby

The purpose of Deceptive Evasion is to kill small animals that are overly populated, like rabbits or owls. Your enemy will then be confused as to why you are suddenly attacking a small animal in the middle of an intense fight.

Cero.5132:

I think it´s okay that the oponent doesnt lose target.
Instead I wish for the clones produced on dodge to target my target instead of a random enemy nearby

on the flip side, having a random target means you are able to daze multiple targets with F3 without the grandmaster trait.

wads.5730:

Cero.5132:

I think it´s okay that the oponent doesnt lose target.
Instead I wish for the clones produced on dodge to target my target instead of a random enemy nearby

on the flip side, having a random target means you are able to daze multiple targets with F3 without the grandmaster trait.

Huh, that´s a point I haven´t thought about yet, to be honest.
But then I think it´s too situational and random to be used specificly. But that´s an other discussion.

wads.5730:

Cero.5132:

I think it´s okay that the oponent doesnt lose target.
Instead I wish for the clones produced on dodge to target my target instead of a random enemy nearby

on the flip side, having a random target means you are able to daze multiple targets with F3 without the grandmaster trait.

You could still do it by targeting another ennemy to set a dodge clone on it. The way it is now just prevents you from having control over your clones and it’s quite a pity.

Dropping target lock on dodge would be insane.
I really hope they never do this, that would be way too good. Im happy with the trait the way it is for my mesmer.

Simply put, it would be way too strong. However, to everyone that thinks clones are pretty weak, try a heavy stealth build that just dumps clones everywhere to get one shot and blow up. Been running clone factory with random condition and confusion on clone death, it’s tons of fun I gotta say.

Current build is running 68% chance to crit with 19k health, Phantasmal Fury (so they have 88% crit chance), nearly 2.2k armor, and like 757 Condition Damage. It doesn’t kill fast, but it really is annoying to play against and every time they think they have you pinned down you disappear.