Guild Wars 2

Hi!

I dont usually post on the forums but I thought I might share some of the ideas I have been pondering on regarding improvements to the greatsword. So, lets take a look at the gratsword. For me its not as great as it could be. I want to love it but in its current state i just… cant.

Outside of the staff the greatsword is the only good ranged option mesmers have but as I said before, its not all that great. gs #1 is a good auto attack. it travels fast and does good amount of damage. Gs #2 is good, you throw your sword and it summons an illusion which uses gs #1 to attack.

Gs #3: Ho boy… dont even get me started on this one. its an awful, awful skill. so, you crouch down to stab your sword through the ground at your opponent and you cant move during the entire animation of the skill. Not only does that make you voulnerable during those few seconds it takes to use the skill but it also has a miniscule radius. I suppose the only redeeming factor to this skill is the power scaling. The scaling is really good but otherwise a very boring, bad and uninspiring skill to use.

Gs #4: Its a really strong skill. I cant really complain about this one. I like it.

Gs #5: only ever useable in pvp and even then it probably isnt enough to keep your opponent away from you for very long.

So, lets get down to business! How to improve the weapon in question. Im only going to focus on the improvement of the gs #3 and #5 skills here but I would love to see some feedback on the suggestions. Im not going to include any numbers or things of that nature as these are only suggestions on a conceptual level.

Gs #3: blade explosion: throw an illusionary sword at your target, exploding on impact and randomly applying vulnerability, bleeding or cripple to foes and randomly applying retaliation, fury or might to allies in a 240 yard radius. Possibly ground targeted or just thrown at the target enemy(the latter one making abit more sense imo).

Now, this skill might only have the application of conditions application to enemies and no boons on allies as it might be a tad op if it did both(not sure if it would, it depends on the cooldown and duration if this stuff but keep in mind, this post is only conceptual, no numbers included!).

the idea behind this skill makes sense to me because most of the greatsword skills seem to be based around throwing your weapon at enemies.

Gs #3: Illusionary retreat(for lack of a better name): roll backwards while planting illusionary blades on the ground, crippling, chilling or immobalizing foes who run over them.

This one is abit iffy… it might suffer from the same lack of usefulness in pve as illusionary wave does but im putting it out there just as a suggestion. The reason behind this idea is to have something which permits you to maintain your distance to your foe(s). Keeping in line with the randomness of boons and conditions these three seemed to be the most appropriate for keeping your distance although mesmers currently do not have access to chill in their condition repertoire.

Gs #5: Sword guard: illusionary blades envelop your body, forming a protective barrier for a short time. applying protection, retaliation or stability and crippling or chilling foes who attack you.

Gs #5: blade barrier: Illusionary blades swirl around you, granting protection or retaliation to you.

Detonate blade barrier: detonate your barrier, inflicting cripple or imobalize on your foes and granting might or fury to allies in a 240 yard radius. This one is sort of the same as the above suggestion but with abit more itility attached to it.

Well, those are my current suggestions. I will try to think of other ideas, possibly for other weapons and post them here if I find them interesting enough.

Greatsword is fine where it is in my opinion. It’s a solid offensive choice in pvp and doesn’t need any changes there. In pve I hear it can be lacking but instead of changing greatsword I would rather get a short bow available for mesmer.

Also I’m not trying to bring you down but your suggested changes make greatsword just a staff that does more damage.

Hmmm… now that you mention it… some of those skills are too much like the staff ones… back to the drawing board! But seriously, gs 3 is still absolutely awful

great-sword for Mesmers is very solid weapon with very little need of improvment.

the only issue i think is skill 3. its just so week. 1 boon? extremely small radius(is there something smaller?) and totally week -mediocre damage.

there needs to be improvement in functionality or damage to this skill.
such as changing the functionality so the boon is stolen. or perhaps in addition to the boon being ripped a condition we have could be transfered over to the target.

or maybe keeping the skill as is but increasing the aoe by 150-200% normal size.

I wouldn’t change great sword #5 to much fun trying to throw people off cliff in edge of mist. but ya i have to agree that #3 does need improved maybe add distortion to character while they preform the stab in the ground, would solve vulnerability problem.

I don’t understand the complaints about Illusionary Wave; it’s excellent for creating much-needed distance and potentially several interrupts giving it good synergy with the Illusions of Vulnerability trait.

Mind Stab would be fine if it stripped more than one boon and the target mark wasn’t so deceptive to its true radius.

The only thing I don’t really like is the auto attack, it does pitiful damage unless you’re far away from your target which is a rare occurrence for this class.

Jackums.3496:

GS #5 is fine. It’s the Shadow Refuge counter.

The only GS skill that I feel requires a buff is #3. Make it a blast finisher. That’ll be enough.

Agree 100%. GS 5 is perfect as is and it is #1 skill against thieves.
I don’t like GS 1 scaling up or down with distance especially when fighting smart war or guard. They stick on you as a glue as soon as see GS.
I newer use 3 in any 1v1.

How about the basic attack? I don’t know if its just me but i find it to be one of the weakest autoattacks only guardian staff is weaker and condition weapons.
I feel like izerker die too fast to make up for the damage on skill 1.

tom.7468:

How about the basic attack? I don’t know if its just me but i find it to be one of the weakest autoattacks only guardian staff is weaker and condition weapons.
I feel like izerker die too fast to make up for the damage on skill 1.

Really interesting comparison there, I do feel that our GS’s auto-attack is a different version of guardian staff’s auto. Both can hit multiple targets and can’t be reflected. However, one focus on distant yet narrow targets while the other hit close target in cone range. I believe that’s why our GS has low damage auto just as guardian one. Problem I have with it though is enemy, player or mobs, usually don’t stand so close together, which makes its area damage minimal.

In my opinion damage depending on range isn’t too bad though. Ranger’s long bow is also affected by distance. They shoot each arrow 0.4s faster with higher single attacks. But those can be reflected and mesmer GS have x3 damage.

The real problem I have with greatsword is #3. It has little synergy with the rest of the skill and are very situational. It only removes one boon which players can easily recover in WvW/PvP.

Maybe alter it slightly so we can use ground-targeting travel like Tazza, with significantly less range and non-stun breaker for balance reasons. Maybe too beneficial to be true but 12s cd is quite long. Or some sort of evasion skill like sword #2.

GS#3 needs to be redesigned, I understand the idea behind it but it just doesn’t feel natural with the flow of this weapon and the single boon strip with long reuse doesnt have a huge impact in pvp.

Replacement Idea:

GS#3 – Illusory Reciprocation
Type: Channeled Block – 3s, Reuse 15s. Successful Block Discharges a Mirror Blade towards the target.
Elective Riposte Skill: Mind Stab for 314 damage centered on the Mesmer with the radius expanded to that of a chaos storm. Using the elective riposte triggers a blast finisher should the user be in a combo field when they trigger it.

I think this would gel really well given that this skill can scale up in power if the user has traited illusory elasticity (also making this point spread in illusions more attractive for a GS user). Also the only other blast finisher is with the torch in the domination line so having a blast finisher with the GS seems appropriate. Finally we are just creatively reusing skills already available to the mesmer (counter mirror blade / block / revamped mind stab aoe) so there is limited infringement on other classes.

I sincerely hope that the devs read this post and consider reworking the current GS#3 skill.

BTW GS#5 is perfect as is in both pvp and pve. Pvp benefit is obvious, but pve with the right traits is devastating (multi interrupt + BI/CI is hackery).

Skill 1 is bad because it motivates you to have maximum distance while Skill 2 rewards being close with 6 stacks of might (at least in 1v1 situtations).
Skill 3 should simply be a regular target skill not ground-targeted

Every time I see a mesmer use GS #5 in PvE, I wish there was friendly fire in this game …

CptAurellian.9537:

Every time I see a mesmer use GS #5 in PvE, I wish there was friendly fire in this game …

Most people are not running a BI/CI build or know when it is appropriate to use it…

Only thing I don’t like with the GS is the autoattack’s damage variance. If there must be a reward depending on range, it should be in another way, like a boon or whatever, rather than raw damage. So if you end up close-range through map design or a quick opponent, it can be mitigated through having access to the right buff (from a friend or whatever), and if not the loss isn’t as big. And if you do need the range, you aren’t punished as much from being way out there by still gaining an important boon or two.

CptAurellian.9537:

Every time I see a mesmer use GS #5 in PvE, I wish there was friendly fire in this game …

This.

Kaschuba.3915:

Skill 1 is bad because it motivates you to have maximum distance while Skill 2 rewards being close with 6 stacks of might (at least in 1v1 situtations).
Skill 3 should simply be a regular target skill not ground-targeted

It was in the beta but that changed that for launch. So obviously anet decided they wanted it to be ground targeted.

Really i’m fine with all the skills, the greatsword is a good weapon if used correctly but obviously meant for Pvp/WvW.

medohgeuh.4650:

I don’t understand the complaints about Illusionary Wave; it’s excellent for creating much-needed distance and potentially several interrupts giving it good synergy with the Illusions of Vulnerability trait.

Mind Stab would be fine if it stripped more than one boon and the target mark wasn’t so deceptive to its true radius.

The only thing I don’t really like is the auto attack, it does pitiful damage unless you’re far away from your target which is a rare occurrence for this class.

That actually doesnt sound bad(the mind stab thingy). it would be awesome if it had a larger radius because i suppose thats a big gripe of mine(and possibly many others) the radius is tiny, making it hard to hit anything reliably. Maybe it could rip a boon from your target and transfer it to you and/or nearby allies?

also, since alot of the attacks of the greatsword are based around throwing the weapon at your enemy. What about making mind stab a thrown attack which impales the target and rips the boon that way instead?

Also, what about making mind stab a thrown attack instead which impales the target, thereby removing one of the boons? Its called mind stab after all Might aswell stab someone with it.

Also, maybe Gs 5 could be a ranged wave attack. the Skill would generate a wave which would just travel forward and knockback or knock down targets it hits? I mean, it would be nice to be able to maintain the distance i allready have without having to use this skill when my enemies are allready glued to my face.

I agree with the others stating that skill #3 is the only problem. Since it is a “skillshot,” I would prefer for it to, convert 3 boons into daze (prehaps 1 sec default and then .5 for every boon afterwards) and have a blast finisher. That would give it a lot more usage in pve while, with #5, making it the go-to weapon for interrupt builds.

Kaschuba.3915:

Skill 3 should simply be a regular target skill not ground-targeted

Pls no. Mesmers are already useless fighting stealth.

Diego Vargas.3058:

CptAurellian.9537:

Every time I see a mesmer use GS #5 in PvE, I wish there was friendly fire in this game …

Most people are not running a BI/CI build or know when it is appropriate to use it…

If they knew when it’s appropriate to use it, they wouldn’t run such a build in PvE. They wouldn’t even run that weapon, since it does not offer any advantage to the alternatives.

CptAurellian.9537:

Diego Vargas.3058:

CptAurellian.9537:

Every time I see a mesmer use GS #5 in PvE, I wish there was friendly fire in this game …

Most people are not running a BI/CI build or know when it is appropriate to use it…

If they knew when it’s appropriate to use it, they wouldn’t run such a build in PvE. They wouldn’t even run that weapon, since it does not offer any advantage to the alternatives.

As a main mesmer anytime I see anybody doing anything wrong for mesmer I cry a little inside.

Skill 5 is still there in PvE, I might as well use it though if the mob is close enough. Theres not a advantage not to.

I think I would vote for not changing the greatsword. Possibly the only change to make would be to add a blast finisher to #3.

I think each skill has nice capabilities that can be applied well, and you have decisions with the skills. Do you try to line up targets for the piercing damage on the auto-attack? Do you try to catch the bounce on Mirror Blade or use it to hit something else? As someone pointed out, skill #3 is the one you can use to guess where the thief is.

Illusionary Wave is tricky because, I’m typically using it for the interrupt in PVE. I want to stop a skill, and I want the might stacks from bountiful interruption. I know that it works against a lot of the “stack many enemies and spin around with a sword” strategy that is common in PVE, so I try to push the enemies into walls when possible. When I’m playing with my warrior friend, I try to use voice chat to let him know the push is coming. But I’m sure it’s annoying for most players when their target moves. Still, I wouldn’t want to change it.

Im well aware that greatsword is a weapon better suited for pvp. Just by looking at the skills and their functionality it should be obvious to most players that greatsword shines in pvp situations. The question is, why should it only be viable in pvp? Why cant it be viable in both pvp/pve?

Also, the reason I would want it changed is because mesmer lacks good ranged options. Sure, there is the pistol but there isnt anything really good to combo that with. Scepter can probably be allright in some circumstances but it still doesnt feel right even though I have personally tried to like it.

Mesmer is also very much pigeonholed into melee considering the lack of good ranged options. Its not that I dislike melee combat but I always pictured my mesmer to do ranged combat and attack from a distance.

Dont get me wrong, gs works better in pvp but im more of a pve player and I dont have all that many options if I want to play ranged. Dont get me wrong, staff is an excellent ranged weapon but sometimes its nice to lay down the hurt on your unsuspecting victims

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

CptAurellian.9537:

Diego Vargas.3058:

CptAurellian.9537:

Every time I see a mesmer use GS #5 in PvE, I wish there was friendly fire in this game …

Most people are not running a BI/CI build or know when it is appropriate to use it…

If they knew when it’s appropriate to use it, they wouldn’t run such a build in PvE. They wouldn’t even run that weapon, since it does not offer any advantage to the alternatives.

As a main mesmer anytime I see anybody doing anything wrong for mesmer I cry a little inside.

Skill 5 is still there in PvE, I might as well use it though if the mob is close enough. Theres not a advantage not to.

It pushes the enemy away from your allies and their AOEs.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

CptAurellian.9537:

Diego Vargas.3058:

CptAurellian.9537:

Every time I see a mesmer use GS #5 in PvE, I wish there was friendly fire in this game …

Most people are not running a BI/CI build or know when it is appropriate to use it…

If they knew when it’s appropriate to use it, they wouldn’t run such a build in PvE. They wouldn’t even run that weapon, since it does not offer any advantage to the alternatives.

As a main mesmer anytime I see anybody doing anything wrong for mesmer I cry a little inside.

Skill 5 is still there in PvE, I might as well use it though if the mob is close enough. Theres not a advantage not to.

It pushes the enemy away from your allies and their AOEs.

Or it can push a group of enemies into a wall so AOEs are more efficient. It can also interrupt some attacks like graveling pounces and bandit twirls. It’s useful for putting distance between the party and enemies when running past trash mobs that aggro or defending NPCs.

Lilium.4270:

Mesmer is also very much pigeonholed into melee considering the lack of good ranged options. Its not that I dislike melee combat but I always pictured my mesmer to do ranged combat and attack from a distance.

Are you talking PvE or PvP here?

In PvE, everyone is pigeonholed into melee combat. That’s just the way PvE efficiency works.

In PvP, Greatsword is a fantastic weapon, no complaints.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Lilium.4270:

Mesmer is also very much pigeonholed into melee considering the lack of good ranged options. Its not that I dislike melee combat but I always pictured my mesmer to do ranged combat and attack from a distance.

Are you talking PvE or PvP here?

In PvE, everyone is pigeonholed into melee combat. That’s just the way PvE efficiency works.

In PvP, Greatsword is a fantastic weapon, no complaints.

Im talking purely pve, I dont have any pvp experience in this game. Although I would imagine greatsword being decent in pvp

The only thing that is worse then my english in PvE.
Is Greatsword 1….
Rewarding maxrange with more dmg, is a nogo in the current state of guild wars 2 combat mechanics.
2-4 are nice, 5 is…ok

Confusion/Vulnerability/Torment are ok if u are far away from your target. But not dmg. Not in this game. Nochance to make this weapon viable in PvE without changing GS 1 dmg.

Illusionary Wave isn’t a bad skill just because some players don’t understand its usage. As I said, it’s a perfectly viable attack in all game modes when used for interruption purposes and space creation which is what it was clearly designed for.

CptAurellian.9537:

Every time I see a mesmer use GS #5 in PvE, I wish there was friendly fire in this game …

Yeah sure, mesmers… because engineer and rangers with 15s knockback are not annoying at all.

FLiP.7680:

CptAurellian.9537:

Every time I see a mesmer use GS #5 in PvE, I wish there was friendly fire in this game …

Yeah sure, mesmers… because engineer and rangers with 15s knockback are not annoying at all.

Well, if a ranger is using pbs, that means they’re using longbow….so the problem is sorta pre-empted.

Way back in beta, the greatsword used to be a single target weapon designed around creating distance. As Anet shifted it to perform an AoE based role, a lot of its old mechanics became a liability. Improving it would actually be fairly easy…

1) Make the autoattack hit foes nearby your target rather than using the unreliable two-guys-between-you-and-foe mechanic. Same damage output, much cleaner use. The animation already has the sizzling energy anyway. Remove the damage by distance bonus and give it a decent default rate.

2) Rather than bounce, Mirror Blade should fly out and back, like Path of Scars, striking all foes in its path. It should create a clone at your target like normal, and grant you might for each foe struck when it returns and you “catch” it.

3) Give Mind Stab a real AoE radius. 240 should probably suffice. Stab the blade into the ground and create a rippling curtain of multiple phantom blades.

Berzerker and IWave are lovely as is.

This would result in a practial and reliable AoE weapon. The autoattack would be good for blasting into a pack of foes, Mirror Blade would be a fantastic opener to tag mobs and grant reliable might no matter the distance, and Mind Stab would reliably hit multiple things.

Add a mainhand pistol to fulfill the role of “single target ranged power weapon” and it’s all good.

I’d rather Greatsword be transformed into a melee weapon, as the Mesmer lacks 2 handed melee option.

And the Mesmer gets either rifle or pistol mainhand for ranged options.

One observation around pve and melee range – the Molten Alliance protectors seem to be designed to counter this. Maybe this mechanic has been in the game for a while, but I had never noticed it before. If you haven’t seen it, the protectors make a ring of fire on the ground. Everything inside that ring gets a fire shield that negates damage. You have to pull the mobs out of the ring to damage them.

So greatsword is handy for that. Maybe Anet will use this approach in other places to reduce the “stacking is the best tactic” advantage that melee has today

eldenbri.1059:

One observation around pve and melee range – the Molten Alliance protectors seem to be designed to counter this. Maybe this mechanic has been in the game for a while, but I had never noticed it before. If you haven’t seen it, the protectors make a ring of fire on the ground. Everything inside that ring gets a fire shield that negates damage. You have to pull the mobs out of the ring to damage them.

So greatsword is handy for that. Maybe Anet will use this approach in other places to reduce the “stacking is the best tactic” advantage that melee has today

I mean, sure. Focus still does the job better. If you’re talking open world events…then greatsword has always been a strong weapon.

FLiP.7680:

Yeah sure, mesmers… because engineer and rangers with 15s knockback are not annoying at all.

Huntards are just as bad (or even worse) and there are not enough engineers to notice them. But since this is a mesmer thread, there is no reason to mention them.