It deals a lot of pain with super-charged phantasms.
It has awesome group-healing (note the super-low cooldown on 9).
It has decent debuff removal (light field from 4 and Disenchanter from 7. Switch disenchanter for Phantasmal Warden in fights without conditions).
Plus it has the notoriously wanted Warden’s Feedback (focus skills reflect projectiles). You can switch 7 for ‘Feedback’ bubble if you want even more reflection.
What do you think?
With the highly flexible skill slot 7 you can get:
a) additional boon and condition removal (P. Disenchanter, but its damage is low)
b) extreme tankyness and the beefiest phantasm ever with the P. Defender
c) another Mantra for even more healing and for example stability or condition removal
d) Feedback to frighten enemy ranged mobs even more.
The 2nd weapon Greatsword is obviously meant to give you another short-cooldown phantasm with a lot of DPS. You can switch it for other weapons and their phantasms if you want to exchange damage output for utility. (however note that cripple is really useful, too)
@Jerem
Will do.
@Miku
It’s not supposed to master anything, it’s supposed to bring 4 decent capabilities to every fight and then you can still exchange stuff to boost any of the 4 even more.
For open world PvE, most anything is fine, and this is a decent enough setup. But Restorative Mantras is not a particularly large amount of healing and forces you out of DPS for a few seconds when you use it. No one is going to notice the healing, even if you stack full clerics gear.
Oh really? That’s sad. As I said this was only theorycrafting and I’d have thought that 500 HP/s or more on everyone are nice. Depends of course on how often you use your other skills…
If the healing is not really noticable then, of course, more damage-oriented builds are better. Thanks for the info.
Keep in mind you have greatsword, which is a solo weapon which keeps you away from your team (in order to get ~any~ DPS on it), so often you won’t even be close enough to use it.
And even then… well, consider a full zerker ele with 10k hp. A 2k heal is rather small, even for a small hp pool like this— and most things are just going to one-hit the ele anyway, so you don’t even get a chance to heal. A warrior with 18k hp won’t down from one hit usually, but the heal is only 1/10 his health— he’s getting a same size heal passively with no input with Heal Signet anyway. And builds with even more vitality are going to notice this even less, since it’s a fractionally smaller amount of their hp. Call it unfortunate if you want, but it’s just the way it is— healing isn’t terribly useful in PvE (and water + blast is the most effective method if you really do need healing).
Healing is sometimes useful in pve if you aren’t running with “meta” groups, but restorative mantras is hard to support with simply because your team won’t even notice – there’s no effect telling them something is happening. Try not to get angry if they keep running away. On the other hand it can boost your own survivability rather substantially at the cost of a utility slot.
As for forcing you out of DPS, recharging mantra of pain is slightly more single-target DPS than max range greatsword autoattack* and gives you the healing on top. If you take harmonious mantras, it’s slightly more single target DPS than sword autoattack*. That’s not such a bad trade. It’s a good way to get used to a full melee build because you can back briefly out to recharge if you’re taking too much damage.
Your build doesn’t have many mantra traits but I think that’s fine. It does have a few odd issues:
No stun breaks
Glamour trait but no glamours, could take phantasm health or menders purity.
Between signet of the ether, phantasmal disenchanter and IC you’ll be overwriting phantasms. Switching to the healing mantra with menders purity could free up your condition removal utilities for other things.
It’s not a meta build simply because the healing trait pulls points and utilities away from damage, but the most important thing is having fun with it… so does it pass there?
*These numbers were calculated a while ago so I’m not 100% sure they’re right/haven’t changed, if anyone disagrees I can check again.
People always add this addendum of ‘if you aren’t running in meta groups’ when they post suboptimal builds. Honestly, you can use meta builds and get by just fine in pugs.
If you’re not in a meta group, optimal might be different. Sometimes that even means healing is useful. If you’re in a group that stacks a lot but tends to die too fast, it becomes pretty obvious. Similarly if you enjoy a particular build or are better at playing with it, that’s important too.
If you’re not in a meta group, optimal might be different. Sometimes that even means healing is useful. If you’re in a group that stacks a lot but tends to die too fast, it becomes pretty obvious. Similarly if you enjoy a particular build or are better at playing with it, that’s important too.
Water field + blast is a significantly stronger heal than Restorative Mantras, though. Healing can be useful in some situations, sure— but RM is very rarely a good heal.
You can consider the heal on Shatter if this one is AoE, i’m not sure. And if you still want to support, take Vigor on Shatter, that one is good support to subpar builds or to those that do not have vigor (Ele/War/Thief come in mind).
Water field + blast is a significantly stronger heal than Restorative Mantras, though. Healing can be useful in some situations, sure— but RM is very rarely a good heal.
Restorative mantras starts at 2600, whereas a water blast does 1320, so it’s about 2 blasts. It has downsides like the delay, but isn’t reliant on multiple skills, has a far lower cooldown than any water field and can’t be messed up by light fields or feedback etc. So it’s quite different, but you haven’t convinced me it’s worse overall… except for the aforementioned “no-one can see it” thing.
I wouldn’t suggest the shatter skills miku mentioned, not so great with phantasms and I think it only has decent numbers with illusionary persona, otherwise it’s about 1-1.5k per shatter (not per clone)
Water field + blast is a significantly stronger heal than Restorative Mantras, though. Healing can be useful in some situations, sure— but RM is very rarely a good heal.
Restorative mantras starts at 2600, whereas a water blast does 1320, so it’s about 2 blasts. It has downsides like the delay, but isn’t reliant on multiple skills, has a far lower cooldown than any water field and can’t be messed up by light fields or feedback etc. So it’s quite different, but you haven’t convinced me it’s worse overall… except for the aforementioned “no-one can see it” thing.
I wouldn’t suggest the shatter skills miku mentioned, not so great with phantasms and I think it only has decent numbers with illusionary persona, otherwise it’s about 1-1.5k per shatter (not per clone)
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. RM doesn’t scale well with healing power, while water+blast does. You can get appreciable healing with water because of that, while 2600 is pretty close to the maximum for RM. And 2600 is a lot.
Water field + blast is a significantly stronger heal than Restorative Mantras, though. Healing can be useful in some situations, sure— but RM is very rarely a good heal.
Restorative mantras starts at 2600, whereas a water blast does 1320, so it’s about 2 blasts. It has downsides like the delay, but isn’t reliant on multiple skills, has a far lower cooldown than any water field and can’t be messed up by light fields or feedback etc. So it’s quite different, but you haven’t convinced me it’s worse overall… except for the aforementioned “no-one can see it” thing.
I wouldn’t suggest the shatter skills miku mentioned, not so great with phantasms and I think it only has decent numbers with illusionary persona, otherwise it’s about 1-1.5k per shatter (not per clone)
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. RM doesn’t scale well with healing power, while water+blast does. You can get appreciable healing with water because of that, while 2600 is pretty close to the maximum for RM. And 2600 is a lot.
Uh….no. Healing power scaling means less than nothing, because if somebody is running heal power in PvE, they’ve made a terrible mistake.
Water field + blast is a significantly stronger heal than Restorative Mantras, though. Healing can be useful in some situations, sure— but RM is very rarely a good heal.
Restorative mantras starts at 2600, whereas a water blast does 1320, so it’s about 2 blasts. It has downsides like the delay, but isn’t reliant on multiple skills, has a far lower cooldown than any water field and can’t be messed up by light fields or feedback etc. So it’s quite different, but you haven’t convinced me it’s worse overall… except for the aforementioned “no-one can see it” thing.
I wouldn’t suggest the shatter skills miku mentioned, not so great with phantasms and I think it only has decent numbers with illusionary persona, otherwise it’s about 1-1.5k per shatter (not per clone)
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. RM doesn’t scale well with healing power, while water+blast does. You can get appreciable healing with water because of that, while 2600 is pretty close to the maximum for RM. And 2600 is a lot.
Uh….no. Healing power scaling means less than nothing, because if somebody is running heal power in PvE, they’ve made a terrible mistake.
I guess I"m not being particularly coherent
My point is just that no matter what, RM cannot provide a significant heal. I concede that water + blast is also a useless heal.
Water field + blast is a significantly stronger heal than Restorative Mantras, though. Healing can be useful in some situations, sure— but RM is very rarely a good heal.
Restorative mantras starts at 2600, whereas a water blast does 1320, so it’s about 2 blasts. It has downsides like the delay, but isn’t reliant on multiple skills, has a far lower cooldown than any water field and can’t be messed up by light fields or feedback etc. So it’s quite different, but you haven’t convinced me it’s worse overall… except for the aforementioned “no-one can see it” thing.
I wouldn’t suggest the shatter skills miku mentioned, not so great with phantasms and I think it only has decent numbers with illusionary persona, otherwise it’s about 1-1.5k per shatter (not per clone)
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. RM doesn’t scale well with healing power, while water+blast does. You can get appreciable healing with water because of that, while 2600 is pretty close to the maximum for RM. And 2600 is a lot.
Uh….no. Healing power scaling means less than nothing, because if somebody is running heal power in PvE, they’ve made a terrible mistake.
I guess I"m not being particularly coherent
My point is just that no matter what, RM cannot provide a significant heal. I concede that water + blast is also a useless heal.
Well, a 2600 aoe heal is absolutely significant. Restorative mantras provides the best sustained healing in the game. Can it burst heal like waters and blasts in an organized wvw group? No, but it can maintain a high rate of overall healing…at the cost of doing anything else unfortunately.
I’m of the opinion that blasted water heals are far from useless. On many all zerk dungeon runs with my ranger I’ve blasted that warhorn on healing spring to give the party one last bit of health we need to take the boss down. Should I have to in a run like that? No, but it’s extremely handy when needed.
