Guild Wars 2

GW2 Mesmer Community,

Recently, I have accomplished the PvP rank of Phoenix (Dragon soon!), have accumulated over 1200+hrs of play time as a Mesmer, which spans over the course of the last 517 days (@ time of this posting; mostly all spent in PvP). I have studied/played builds based off Osicat, Supercutie, and a handful of others that were kind enough to share their thoughts, builds, wisdom, and skill knowledge (shout out to guild OMFG) with me/us – either via videos, posts (like this one!), or in-game. If not for other Mesmers sharing their insights, I can honestly say that I wouldn’t be half the Mesmer I am today. In fact, I’m convinced I would have retired from playing one altogether in PVP because of how frustrated I would get PvPing as a Mesmer!

Thankfully, my determination, patience, and love for the Mesmer class kept me at perfecting how to play one better, smarter, and with more calculated efficiency! Think like a Mesmer, act like a Mesmer, manipulate and control as a Mesmer! And so, after a lot of trial and error, research, play testing builds, theory-crafting potential builds, and taking all I’ve learned in the countless hours I’ve invested in PvP, I’m thrilled and excited to announce that I’ve created a devastating sPvP/tPvP build that I’ve aptly named, “CBT Overload 1.0” (aka, “The Punisher”)!

What is “CBT Overload 1.0?” (aka “The Punisher”)

This Mesmer build throws a lot of HEAVY spike damage around at your opponent in a very brief amount of time (aka “Spike”), OR it can be used to cause mayhem, confusion, and sustainable DOT (damage over-time) if given the opportunity to leave clones/phantoms up. It utilizes various powerful conditions, utilities, and benefits from the anticipated ignorance of the enemy player’s behavior/actions to facilitate their quick demise.

You can find the build here: CBT Overload 1.0 – aka The Punisher

Pros/Advantages:

“CBT Overload 1.0” brings a lot of functionality, durability, and offensive/defensive capabilities to the table. I’ve based it off the strategies I’ve acquired from playing a variety of PU and Shatter Mesmer builds. The basic concept is this:

• Hit as hard as a GS + Shatter build + have the added bonus of layering on several conditions + while retaining the ability to remove boons and stealth out of sight to reposition or further confuse your opponent.

• Be able to hold a position defensively, not just assault one! Mesmer bunker? Unheard of? Not anymore. This build punishes thieves and solo roamers for trying that tactic REAL QUICK!

Here’s what tests have yielded for me (I have screen-shots) when testing it against Chieftain/Svanir:

• 200-2.0k+ damage per tick = confusion ( C )
• 200-1.5k+ damage per tick = bleeds (B)
• 200-1.5k+ damage per tick = torment (T)
• 200-1.5k+ damage per hit = skills 1-5
• 200-800+ damage per hit/tick = poison/burn/etc
• 5-25 stacks of vulnerability
• etc, etc etc….

As you can see, the math doesn’t lie, and I encourage you to test this build for yourself! Also, now you see where I came up w/ the CBT part of this build’s name.

Cons/Disadvantages

Like every other build, there is always a drawback, but in designing this build I wanted as few as possible (don’t we all?), and so far I’ve only pin-pointed a few:

• Mobility (you are not using Blink in this build!!); however, if you really want the mobility you could opt the armor Rune Of The Krait for Rune Of The Traveler. However, in doing so, you are dropping your potential bleed dmg output from 1,405 to 1,097 (based off Staff #1 skill), not to mention the redux in other condition damage based skills. You’re condition damage would be 1344 vs. 1491. In most circumstances, it just doesn’t justify the loss of this potential damage output for mobilities sake – especially since this build tends to be extremely durable and effective, even in 2 on 1 situations (when played extremely WELL!).

• Furthermore… Rune Of The Krait ALSO fires off bleeding, torment, and poison (for 8 seconds) when you use your elite skill! It’s up to you, but I strongly encourage you to stick with Rune Of The Krait vs. Traveler, and understand that you won’t need to be TOO concern with retreating/needing that +25% perma speed a lot because you’re going to put your enemies on the defensive REAL QUICK!

• Condition removals: your enemy would have to have a lot of condition removals, and since you’ll be applying and reapplying your conditions fairly often (via main skills, shatters, and/or clones/phantasms), it tends to be a mute point. Basically, you can out perform their ability to remove them effectively – not to mention you’ll be removing 3 boons every time you max shatter successfully!

• Zerg-trains: you are a Mesmer, and while it’s amusing to feel “god-like” when you get very experienced with this build, the reality check is you’re not, and you need to back off when faced w/ over-whelming odds. In the end, we Mesmers are forever SQUISHY.

• Timing…is everything when playing a Mesmer. Meaning, if you burn your skills too quickly, or you’re not paying attention to what your opponent is/isn’t doing, then you can find yourself without an OUT. Shatter SPIKEing is encouraged w/ this build (it drives up your CBT stacks), but if you’re opponent is playing defensively or trying to catch you off guard, then don’t be afraid to leave your clones up – and casually shatter them when your skill timers are resetting (with clones/phants up, they will help stack upon crit-ing or when being killed).

• Condition Builds: You are going to have to watch out for opponents that, like you, have opt for a lot of conditions to do their dirty work. You need to think quickly, work quickly, and burn them down faster than they can you. If you let them stack on you – you’re dead. Don’t get over-zealous, use your stealth/clones to your advantage, and spike when the moment is right.

Utility Skills

You’re not going to have Blink. Let me repeat that – no BLINK! This was very difficult for me to get use to at first, especially when so many builds have it, but trust me – in most circumstances you’ll never need it, and you’ll learn quickly that there is LIFE after BLINK for us Mesmers!

• Reflect: Funny. I use to ignore this skill altogether. I thought it was practically worthless. And then ANET decided to buff up rangers to a ridiculously annoying level…thieves were one thing (and I’ve learned to over-come them), but Rangers…hates them! (Ironic too because my main in GW1 was a ranger – ha! LOL). And, one other fact, it was my frustration with rangers that really spurred on the creation of this build because I was fed up w/ losing to their “eazy-button” tactics. Now, I hunt them….mmm. And, Reflect isn’t just for those pesky Rangers either! It’s very effective at causing disorientation on a cap point, forcing someone out of their defensive position, and is a very nasty, dirty, devious surprise when someone isn’t paying attention or already starting a range burst of their own!! I was so so very wrong in doubting this utility skill, and it has become an invaluable tool in my kitten nal to control and manipulate a situation to my advantage (not to mention it compliments this build’s max potential damage output very well – especially when timed properly with shatter spiking bursts)!

• Mirror Images: This is why you’ve sacrificed Blink!! This baby here + a weapon skill or dodge roll later, and you have 3 clones/phantoms ready to rush in and cause mayhem, hell, and destruction against your opponent. Bring tissues. They’ll need one for the pain endured, and you’ll need one for your tears of joy. Seriously though, don’t under-estimate this utility! It’s one of the main “bread and butter” pieces of this build, and I cannot image this build being nearly effective w/o bringing it! Let me repeat this: BRING THIS WITH YOU! It’s part of your spike AND creating defense diversions!

• Decoy: Time to go? Your 2 on 1 just turned into a zerg? Yep, time to go! Between this utility skill + torch #4 skill (The Prestige), this is your way out of most sticky situations. And, of course, as a last resort, you also have Mass Invisibility too.

• ALT SKILL: You can swap out Confusing Cry for Master Of Misdirection. I have, and I still do. It really depends what I’m up against, or how I want to play. Remember, you’re main focus here is to stack, stack, and stack! So, when you consider a 33% increase on your confusion duration, that may not sound like a lot at first, but it’s definitely going to drive up your confusion damage per tick. Mmm! On the other hand, retaliation for 5 seconds upon using your F2 skill (Cry Of Frustration) is layering your over-all SPIKE per tick damage output, isn’t tied into condition removal, and basically is the option best suited for someone who doesn’t want to “put all their eggs into one basket.” You have to keep in mind that the core of this build is all about layering multiple various outputs for damage, and retaliation facilitates that end concept I had in mind.

Final Thoughts

• Decoy, while designed to be a primary defensive tool (remember, it breaks stuns!), it can also increase your clone/phantom output too. This is completely situational based, and you need to learn when and where to use it offensively vs. defensively. Just remember what I mentioned earlier: don’t leave yourself without an out and burn through your skills too quickly!

• I strongly encourage upcoming Mesmers to READ the tactics/builds/etc. that Osicat and Supercutie took the time to write and share w/ our Mesmer community. Their builds taught me how to move, play, and time a mesmer better. And, the tactics you grasp by playing as a PU mesmer, and then as a Shatter mesmer, become invaluable when you move into a build like mine. Think like a PU defensively, but offensively SPIKE like the Shatter nightmare you’ve become!

• I hope my Mesmer doesn’t run into you running my build. Heh.

• Thank you for reading my 1st build ever publically shared with the GW2 community. I wasn’t going to share it, to be honest (mainly because I’ve no desire to face off against it!), but after ridding myself of that selfish notion, I recalled how I got this far in the 1st place: because of other Mesmers that took the time to share their worth of knowledge so that we may all be better Mesmers for it!

And with that said, enjoy! Feel free to PM/email me in-game @: Syric.1936 (aka Sylvena Variel; JQ server), with any comments, questions, and/or constructive criticism. Or, alternatively, post here and I’ll reply when I have a moment! CHEERS!

Credit

Thanks goes out to Osicat, SuperCutie, the entire OMFG all Mesmer guild, and to all the other Mesmers I’ve met along the way or whom taken the time to post their own builds/videos! THANK YOU!

<3 Mesmer 4 Life! <3

Warm Regards,
Syric (aka Sylvena Variel)
Jade Quarry

Thank you for sharing! Really appreciate the effort you put in!

Teutos.8620:

Thank you for sharing! Really appreciate the effort you put in!

Thank you for recognizing all the energy and time I invested into bringing this build into reality! And, I hope you try it out (not against me of course! lol) and enjoy it as much as I do! Cheers!

As someone that plays Condi-Shatter/MTD, I’ll give my quick thoughts:

1) Good work in putting the time and effort into describing the build.

2) This build is Condi-Shatter/MTD, not “the punisher”. The 44006 is one of the most common setups here, and merely replacing a few traits and utility with less effective ones doesn’t really change the core build.

3) While Feedback will help you vs. LB Rangers, its going to cost you vs literally every other relatively common class/build in the game. You have no condi removal whatsoever, and play a build that does best at outlasting others and being in ‘relatively’ close quarters. (If your opponent see’s 3 clones running at them from 1200 range and fails to dodge, you could likely beat that player with a 00000 build). Ironically, Vs. Rangers was a big design of the build, but condi rangers will hard counter you more than a Thief counters Shatter mesmer.

3) Phantasmal Fury on a condi build with Mage/Warlock. There are much better options, and if you wanted the retaliation you can get the retaliation on block trait.

4) Some people (and I have before) confuse Confusing Cry (retaliation on CoF) with Master of Misdirection (increase confusion duration). Was that your intent here? If you are looking for retaliation, which actually isn’t terrible in a condi build due to the amount of hits you can take, I’d suggest just running Dueling3 and Illusions5. You can keep up decent retaliation with Dueling3, Scepter2, and Staff5.

Overall its a fairly effective build, but its “been done”, if you will.

Edit: I read your note on Confusing Cry, and fair enough. If you are going that route I’d also take Retaliatory Shield to get permanent uptime on retaliation. Phant Fury really does nothing for this build.

So aside from the obvious stuff that alanis mentioned about this being just basically a run-of-the-mill maim build…

Syric.1936:

Also, now you see where I came up w/ the CBT part of this build’s name.

Plausible deniability is good, but don’t think you’re actually fooling us

Anyone else tired of “Mysterious Phantasmal Punishing Immortal kitten Kicker 1.2.c Beta” stuff? I blame Osicat for starting that nonsense.

4,4,0,0,6 was post after the patch by me and others who tested the mtd trait
i think the punisher is good name
i play it bit different with great success in low-mid tpvp
i play with 0,4,4,0,6 with dd trait for more conditions cover as my clones will die

ranger is easy to handle if you see them coming
tip:
use #2 block , blink to them and MI and shatter for 11 torment stack and confusion while they pew pew and use stealth to re position and staff clone for more bleed and burning dmg
use moa – far far better to shut down any player and turn the fight from 3v3 to 3v2 for 10 sec. also the condition will take the out fast in 10 sec

here is my tutorial and few ranger fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAsQEXbi15k&list=PLiT59SEZLaifPQmI9HNXyFepPEL39q-yV&index=2

Will probably run better and be more interesting whenever Sinister Armor hits sPvP.

Until then it looks interesting , but lets stop trying to name our builds, thats such a 2012 thing to do..

We’ve got Shatter builds, Phantasm builds, and PU builds, Clone death and Condition and Interrupt/Lockdown builds.. And so many builds that are just 1 trait off from one another that trying to Name and claim originality… would just make it confusing

Swish.2463:

Will probably run better and be more interesting whenever Sinister Armor hits sPvP.

Until then it looks interesting , but lets stop trying to name our builds, thats such a 2012 thing to do..

We’ve got Shatter builds, Phantasm builds, and PU builds, Clone death and Condition and Interrupt/Lockdown builds.. And so many builds that are just 1 trait off from one another that trying to Name and claim originality… would just make it confusing

This is pretty true, the only truly unique builds are the ones that no longer exist due to various anet nerfbats…

You guys are being too kitten him. Anyone willing to take the time to explain a build is always helpful in my books

Mogar.9216:

You guys are being too kitten him. Anyone willing to take the time to explain a build is always helpful in my books

i always happy to see ppl posting new build and tutorials
but mtd was introduce long ago and basically few build posted around it
4,4,0,0,6
0,4,4,0,6
0,4,0,4,6
2,4,2,0,6
0,4,2,2,6
0,6,2,0,6
so basically x,4,x,x,6 with staff + scepter/torch

what i really like OP to do is to post tpvp matches with it and defend it as useful in tpvp high tier ( as i still try)

Wheres the vids

Mogar.9216:

You guys are being too kitten him. Anyone willing to take the time to explain a build is always helpful in my books

I agree on this, but my first thought was the same, “wtf this a regular MtD build… with Phantasmal Fury, why?” I guess he has been busy PVP and working on this build instead of hanging around here and probably missed a lot of poeple already posted about this OR belives his small changes to the build really makes a difference, if that’s the case prove it.

OP, to save you from the Forum Fury (pun intended) I suggest you change the name of the build to not be something of your own since A LOT of people have made similar builds, even days before the trait was implemented. If you reference the other builds and say it’s a new version no one, well at least not EVERYONE will F1 your kitten .

You did a great job explaining everything though and nice formatting if that is of any comfort, I really mean it, it’s properly done, just some months late.

This is actually good! I like it!

Though as for the name, it’s more of “torturer” or “sadistic” than “punisher” lol The last time I played a condishatter build, I utterly destroyed a Guardian with 12 stacks of torment! xD

A few things in mind and a few more options:

1) I would have Sigil of Energy on both weapons. Weapon swap gives me vigor, which gives me increased endurance rate, which also gives me more time to dodge and spawn more clones at my disposal.
2) Phantasm Fury may have little to no place in such a condition build. My best advice is to have Desperate Decoy in to give yourself more survivability and more clones.
3) I didn’t think you would give yourself traits in the Domination line so that you can give out vulnerability. I actually endorse that. My attempts at a condishatter build have been 0/4/4/0/6 or 0/4/2/2/6 with points at the Chaos line so that I get the clone death traits.
4) I have personal ire against Feedback, even if you’re facing against ranged opponents like a ranger and an engineer. I may see that you want a third set of Chaos Shield from your Staff 2 leap animation (from the Chaos Storm skill plus the Staff 2 leap animation and the Staff 4 skill itself) as well as reflects, but I think that there’s simply better options against opponents. Feedback targets certain oppponents such as a ranger and finds its limited use against others sadly.

But this is good! I actually like it!

Thanks a lot for you build post. “Punisher” is a fantastic name for the 4/4/0/0/6 maim setup due to its soft lockdown capabilities in torment/confusion. In my version, I maximize their duration as much as nearly possible with Master of Misdirection and Nightmare Runes. The core difference between our builds is that my build focuses on more boon strip to directly counter the cele meta against engis and eles (not go good against cele war though). When I don’t call it “Dominator”, I nick name it “Maim The Meta” XD

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpRttpxQNcrNCrBh6rkmfSyEEgS2hrB-TJRHwAC3fIZZABnCAAPBAA

My only critique for your build is the lack of condition clear. As a condi build, the whole idea is to out-sustain your enemy, and you may be lacking it here here, especially if you are hit by an enemy dps & condi duo.

I disagree with someone who said Feedback is only good against Rangers. It’s actually highly effective against thieves, warriors and other Mesmers. You’d be surprised how many attacks actually reflect.

OK, last critique, but you should also get rid of phantasmal fury. It’s only good in dps builds and condi builds utilizing iDuelist. Anyway, good job again!!! I’ve never used Mirror Images with maim, but I imagine it would be pretty gruesome! lol

Woah. Reading responses now… Why is everyone hating on him for his lack of originality?

Yes, it’s super obvious that this is nothing new, but you know, just because you think something doesn’t mean you need to say it. Commenting on the obvious lack of originality adds nothing to this discussion. lawl

Also, when builds like this are posted, it’s helpful to point the OP out to other discussion on similar topics. Here’s a link to get your juices flowing!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Maim-The-Disillusioned-Impressions/page/3#post4592497

MailMail.6534:

Woah. Reading responses now… Why is everyone hating on him for his lack of originality?

Yes, it’s super obvious that this is nothing new, but you know, just because you think something doesn’t mean you need to say it. Commenting on the obvious lack of originality adds nothing to this discussion. lawl

Also, when builds like this are posted, it’s helpful to point the OP out to other discussion on similar topics. Here’s a link to get your juices flowing!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Maim-The-Disillusioned-Impressions/page/3#post4592497

Thats why I avoid posting builds in the forums.

Swish.2463:

Will probably run better and be more interesting whenever Sinister Armor hits sPvP.

Until then it looks interesting , but lets stop trying to name our builds, thats such a 2012 thing to do..

We’ve got Shatter builds, Phantasm builds, and PU builds, Clone death and Condition and Interrupt/Lockdown builds.. And so many builds that are just 1 trait off from one another that trying to Name and claim originality… would just make it confusing

Best reason to give them a name is so the thread is easily locatable in the forums, or via a google search. Eventually all discoveries boil down to a number loadout with gear, weapon, and rune choice. That or a single grandmaster trait to summerise the build via theme- CS, CI, PU, IP, Maim, Glamor. :p

As to the build itself, it’s clearly a condition build but you’ve maxed out on retaliation uptime. That further dumbs down your condition side, and is weak to boot. If I were you I’d just stick with the retal the iMage provides and focus all those traits on condition based choices. You’ll be surprised how well an iMage keeps retal flying around. Especially now that the iMage attacks that little bit faster.

I disagree with everyone posting here.

Good job, no condi clear its all good if it was you. Seeing you play with that build on opposing team made me think otherwise. Your pseudo agressive shatter approach fits the build perfectly, retal also works well since we take it as a seperate condition (bec pf the ’tick" when they hit you)

This is a crtique from someone who knows how well you play.

The best thing i can say is, keep up with builds like this, some people maybsee something out of the norm like retal, well if it works for you, its great but you cant expect them the build to work for them, you need to test a build extensively before it gets disproved.

And anyone bashing the naming, dont be a jerk, names make a build unique on its own way, so making that part as your own. I mean what the fak is wrong with naming a build?

Okay if this was the case, can i please patent my 4/4/6 CI traitspread???

StickerHappy.8052:

And anyone bashing the naming, dont be a jerk, names make a build unique on its own way, so making that part as your own. I mean what the fak is wrong with naming a build?

That’s sorta the point though. A name implies uniqueness, it implies that this is something new that hasn’t been seen before. It implies that it’s a special build that has enough relevance on its own to hold a name.

The build posted here fits none of those conditions. It’s not a unique build, it’s not something new that hasn’t been seen before. It’s not special or significantly relevant. Slapping on a name without those conditions conveys either a sense of bloated self-importance or pure lack of knowledge/understanding about what is currently being used and explored in the game.

By all means, post detailed playstyle guides, advice, instructions, w/e…but when you post a build and name it as your own, you’d better expect people to balk unless it’s something that truly can be counted as special and yours.

Edit: Let me be a little more clear with what I mean, just in case I wasn’t clear enough.

Syric.1936:

I’m thrilled and excited to announce that I’ve created a devastating sPvP/tPvP build

This is the bit that people are balking at. That sentence portrays this build as new, unique, meta-changing, objectively important, etc, etc. It’s none of those things, it’s simply another maim build.

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

And anyone bashing the naming, dont be a jerk, names make a build unique on its own way, so making that part as your own. I mean what the fak is wrong with naming a build?

That’s sorta the point though. A name implies uniqueness, it implies that this is something new that hasn’t been seen before. It implies that it’s a special build that has enough relevance on its own to hold a name.

The build posted here fits none of those conditions. It’s not a unique build, it’s not something new that hasn’t been seen before. It’s not special or significantly relevant. Slapping on a name without those conditions conveys either a sense of bloated self-importance or pure lack of knowledge/understanding about what is currently being used and explored in the game.

By all means, post detailed playstyle guides, advice, instructions, w/e…but when you post a build and name it as your own, you’d better expect people to balk unless it’s something that truly can be counted as special and yours.

Edit: Let me be a little more clear with what I mean, just in case I wasn’t clear enough.

Syric.1936:

I’m thrilled and excited to announce that I’ve created a devastating sPvP/tPvP build

This is the bit that people are balking at. That sentence portrays this build as new, unique, meta-changing, objectively important, etc, etc. It’s none of those things, it’s simply another maim build.

Okay point taken, but since he has the retal part in there, so it makes it kinda unique right?

Ps. Go to sleep pyro lol

StickerHappy.8052:

Okay point taken, but since he has the retal part in there, so it makes it kinda unique right?
Ps. Go to sleep pyro lol

No, because people take retal in condi builds, though typically the block retaliation trait (which, frankly, he should have taken over PF). I had a long discussion last night about that trait in OMFG. (retal on block)

You people are ridiculous. I can’t roll my eyes hard enough.

#Support4Syric! Keep maiming the meta with your CBT Overload build!

StickerHappy.8052:

And anyone bashing the naming, dont be a jerk, names make a build unique on its own way, so making that part as your own. I mean what the fak is wrong with naming a build?

To me, naming builds just creates a kittening contest between different egos laying claim to sets of traits (see: this thread). It’s particularly narcissistic when they start versioning their builds each time they change a sigil or an adept trait.

That said, guides are always welcome, and I agree we’ve been a little harsh on Syric.

To: Everyone,

Thank you for your feedback! Wow! Here’s my thoughts on most points shared:

- I have had my doubts on which was more effective to this build: Phantom Fury vs. Retaliation Shield, and I appreciate everyone’s feedback on this! I’ve used both, but thanks to your feedback I defer to the experience of others, and have added this recommended change to my OP build.

- Master Of Misdirection (33% confusion duration increase) vs. Confusing Cry (5 sec of Retaliation) remains up in the air for me. I’ve noticed some REALLY good reflected damage when Retaliation is up, but the 33% increase w/ confusion is what pushes my confusion damage up to 1.5k+ vs. 600-1.4k. Anyone have more data on this one? Thoughts? Opinions?

- Originally, I did not believe this build would hold up without condition removal. However, time and time again in sPvP, I simply don’t require it nearly as often as I once did when using GS Shatter or the now nerfed PU bleed/burn builds of yesterday. In my testing thus far, I believe one important factor for this is due to the over-whelming OVERLOAD in damage you are presenting your opponent. In less than 5-7 seconds, I have stacks of confusion, torment, bleed, burn, vulnerability, poison, etc. on you. What do you do? Condition cleanse? Ok. I’m prepared for that. Here comes my 2nd wave at you. Now what? Oh…and here’s a 3rd and 4th wave too. Meanwhile, most condition wipe timers are still on cool-down. Who’s dead? Not me. So, while in most circumstances, it’s advised to bring condition removal, in this build – even against condition necro/ranger, I’ve survived and/or go down w/ them in most worst case scenarios. This build encourages and often rewards AN OFFENSE approach to your opponent, as most spike builds do. “Burn” them fast and they’re more concerned w/ heals/condition cleanse etc than attacking you. And that, perhaps, is the key advantage to not needing a lot of condition cleanse for yourself right there. Also, factor in w/ this build you do have “some” armor (not 900 like full berserk, but 1500 ish), and you want your clones to be targeted- not you – so like most Mesmers, you want them to waste skills on them – not you – to avoid conditions/hits/etc.

- My build is time tested in sPvP. In highly organized tPvP, I have concerns, and GS shatter might be the best solution for those highly competitive matches. However, there are too many factors and variables to consider and be weighted here – what’s best isn’t the real question though vs. what’s the BEST build against that particular team. Proof? I don’t do videos, but I’ll get some screen shots of damage output and post them soon for you.

- Some feel I have displayed a narcissistic behavior, or ego, for posting my build and naming it. Huh?! O_o ?! If I were as egotistical and narcissistic as some would consider, then why would I take the time to make my original post? Wouldn’t my ego be better served by just posting, “I have this great amazing build, and you’ll never see it,” rather then put the time into a giving back to the community that aided my development so much? Honestly, you need to consider that some of us don’t come across every single post, build, etc. What’s new to me might very well be old to you, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s new and exciting for me. Tell ya what: find my a post of the build I shared, and I’ll gladly change the name to whatever that person named it. Win-win enough for ya?

- I named my build and posted it because for all the builds I have played, I personally had NOT come across any other “maim” builds. Granted, I’m often playing in-game and spend VERY little time on these Forums, so if my build echos other builds already shared and posted, then I definitely missed them. In any event, my build was a customized version of the GS shatter build I was using, and after seeing how others post their builds (w/ unique names), I followed their example.

its ok syric you can post builds and ideas even if they have posted b4.

i have been posted mine before the patch and after in November and didnt get good result from the community in the tpvp arena. also posted it in the metabattle site and after its got 4.2 points the admin put it again in testing till now)

regarding the build:
for me its the best conditions build in the game. its far better then any other class and build
why?
as you mention above
burning, bleed, poison, vulnerability, torment, confusion
with staff you can play as pu and with 3 clones alone you can proc 10-15 bleed , burning which do 2.2k dps
with scepter torch you can play kittenter and do 15 torment and confusion which does 3k dps

i play in low-mid tier in tpvp and my results for me are very good
i can hold far or close against thieves/engis/ele (s/d thieves can be tricky)
i can go mid and put pressure aoe with shatter to force the enemy to cleanse use utilities early in the fight
i can moa important target and take it in 10 sec (as they tend to run so doable dmg from torment)

sure some compositions are harder like shouts warriors and bunker guard with ele as they can sustain longer so it really depends on my group comp but in 1v1 i can win them so i go to far or close

why i got bad community response ?
conditions dont work in tpvp – i asked what about necro or engi – they got good cc and aoe heal. its true but they got less condi pressure …
your clone tend to die b4 shatter – its true so learn to shatter at the right moment or let your staff clones do dmg

i find that if i run with dmg dealer like power mesmer or thief or guardian we can do wonder even in 2v3 as my pressure is aoe which put my enemy on panic button while the dmg dealer do its thing.
also the same if i run with bunker support build – i do dmg while he protect me

i dont run with condi cleanse unless i see 2 engi /or any 2 other condi class

my counters:
s/d thieves
condi spec ranger then necro then engi
if you get targeted in mid (like any other class)

this build best against the cele meta as it shut down them even if not killed

Syric.1936:

- Master Of Misdirection (33% confusion duration increase) vs. Confusing Cry (5 sec of Retaliation) remains up in the air for me. I’ve noticed some REALLY good reflected damage when Retaliation is up, but the 33% increase w/ confusion is what pushes my confusion damage up to 1.5k+ vs. 600-1.4k. Anyone have more data on this one? Thoughts? Opinions?

Honestly, retaliation isn’t that good on a single target. It’s just not. The amount of damage you obtain from retaliation is incredibly low compared to everything else, it’s only significant on a very few types of attacks, and it requires you to get hit multiple times in a reasonably squishy build. Master of misdirection is more worth it.

Syric.1936:

- Originally, I did not believe this build would hold up without condition removal.
-snip-

Basically, you’re making the gamble that many other offensive shatter builds make: My pressure is strong enough that I can force people into playing defensively and/or kill people before condition removal is a problem. Personally, I’m not willing to make that gamble, and so I run with condition removal in every build I use. That being said, it’s not an uncommon gamble to make, and it often works out just fine. You simply need to keep the fact in mind that you don’t have condition removal, and so if you get blindsided by any heavy condie class (think an engineer unloading a bunch of nades rapidly, or a necro smacking you with a signet of spite ++) you will simply keel over and die.

Syric.1936:

- Some feel I have displayed a narcissistic behavior, or ego, for posting my build and naming it.

You appear to be referencing my previous post. Let’s review that for a moment.

Fay.2357:

A name implies uniqueness, it implies that this is something new that hasn’t been seen before. It implies that it’s a special build that has enough relevance on its own to hold a name.

And

Fay.2357:

Slapping on a name without those conditions conveys either a sense of bloated self-importance or pure lack of knowledge/understanding about what is currently being used and explored in the game.

So, note that there’s two options given. One is the sense of bloated self-importance, the other is simply a lack of knowledge/understanding about what is currently being used an explored in this game.

Based on what you’ve said, I’m concluding that it’s the latter. You’re simply unaware that maim builds are very popular currently. Lots of people run them in game, lots of people theorycraft about them on the forums, lots of time and energy has been spent exploring them. That makes the build that you’ve posted nothing new, unique, special, or otherwise worthwhile naming and claiming.

As I also said, a good guide/set of advice/playstyle instructions is absolutely welcomed and appreciated, and this post contains that. Just keep in mind that this build itself is nothing new, and if you look around on the forums you’ll find immense amounts of discussion on exceedingly similar builds.

Syric.1936:

Tell ya what: find my a post of the build I shared, and I’ll gladly change the name to whatever that person named it. Win-win enough for ya?

That’s not really the point. Quite honestly, the era of named builds is pretty much over, as far as I’m concerned. Every facet of this class has been explored, tested, and explored again. While I won’t discount the possibility, however small, that there’s some unique build/playstyle out there that I and others haven’t thought of/considered/tested…it’s very very close to being the case. When there’s nothing new and unique, there’s no real reason to tag ideas with names.

Fay.2357:

Syric.1936:

- Master Of Misdirection (33% confusion duration increase) vs. Confusing Cry (5 sec of Retaliation) remains up in the air for me. I’ve noticed some REALLY good reflected damage when Retaliation is up, but the 33% increase w/ confusion is what pushes my confusion damage up to 1.5k+ vs. 600-1.4k. Anyone have more data on this one? Thoughts? Opinions?

Honestly, retaliation isn’t that good on a single target. It’s just not. The amount of damage you obtain from retaliation is incredibly low compared to everything else, it’s only significant on a very few types of attacks, and it requires you to get hit multiple times in a reasonably squishy build. Master of misdirection is more worth it.

Hmm….

I certainly appreciate your opinion on retaliation, even if I currently remain on the fence about it vs. a 33% increase on confusion. Basically, it’s a numbers game, and it’s difficult for me to add up which out-performs the other.

For the sake of the argument/discussion, I’ve noted that retaliation can toss out low #s of 200dmg, or spike off for over 700-1k if crit/squishy. Now, even at 200dmg, that supplements my build by adding to the torment/bleed/confusion/etc stacks already slamming the opponent. It’s one more “tick” that’s adding up to the overall “damage-over-time” I’m causing my opponent, which increases the pressure and spike I’ve dealt them.

Now, on the flip-side, I’ve noticed when using Master Of Misdirection (33% increase on confusion), this has caused some great results in damage output. Typically, I can see confusion dmg increased from 500-1k (normally) to over 1.5k+ (only when Master Of Misdirection is in use). Upfront, more dmg potential, but confusion has to land to stack, whereas retaliation fires off when they attack me.

Ultimately, I think you may be right. Overall dmg output potential may favor MoM, but I’m still testing for a final opinion/recommendation on this aspect of the build. Does anyone else have input to add to this argument/debate – to perhaps swing it one way or the other?

messiah.1908:

i dont run with condi cleanse unless i see 2 engi /or any 2 other condi class

my counters:
s/d thieves
condi spec ranger then necro then engi
if you get targeted in mid (like any other class)

this build best against the cele meta as it shut down them even if not killed

Tyvm for your feedback! I’ve come to the conclusion that conditions against me are pretty much irrelevant because they never should stack on me to begin with – this build should play with a PU mindset, and when executed correctly your opponent really shouldn’t be able to land too many conditions on you.

Now, before I get flamed on my perspective, let me just add this: any class, slammed with enough conditions, is doomed to go down – that’s game design. Even with condition removals, I find conditioning applying out-performs condition cleaning, and ultimately if I’m applying burn, poison, bleed, confusion, torment, etc faster than you can remove it all, well then I’m going to win that fight. And, if I’m up against a condition applying counter-part, it really comes down to who does what faster/smarter.

For example: Up against a condition ranger? I’ll use the map to my advantage, go in close, then use my stealth/distance (Staff #2) to break off , reset, heal ,etc.

For example: Condition necro? Clones up, stealth, create confusion with more clones, and avoid getting too close. Let the clones die off and cause the necro some hurt. If pressure comes in from them, again, I break off, or waste their time by creating a “catch me if you can” game w/ them. Ultimately though, I’ll use my clones/shatter to slap on TORMENT + other conditions and watch their health tick away to 0.

Every fight is different. I don’t use the above strategies for every circumstance, but I can honestly say that I use to believe condition removal was AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY. Now? I no longer have that opinion. My build/skills selected each have a purpose, timing, and create a synergy that makes this build so effective – remove one of the pieces, and it’s just not as good. For example, remove Mirror Images, and now you’ve just cut potential spike/shatter damage by (I estimate) at least 25% – if not more. Trade out Reflect for say, Null Field, and ok – you have some condition removal now – but what’s going to stop that Ranger/what-ever range weapon/class for mopping you up w/ distance attacks/skills? What’s going to happen when Null Fields done and conditions are reapplied to you?

It’s a personal preference, but when you play this build right, conditions are no longer an issue. Play with a PU defensive mindset, watch where you’re placing yourself on the map, and whatever you do – don’t back down from the opponent. This build rewards an aggressive stance, as long as you leave youself w/ defensive outs (dodge, stealth, staff #2 for blinking backwards n’ away (or check out how you can use that skill to blink forward!).

Also, one more note: don’t forget you’re COMBO setup. Reflect + Staff #2 (when standing in the REFLECT BUBBLE) = Chaos Armor / Staff #4 = Chaos Armor / Staff #5 (chaos storm) + then using Staff #2 (while standing in Chaos Storm) = Chaos Armor

This is an invaluable part of your defensive/armor/boon strategy. USE IT!

OP, just a couple notes. Retaliation doesn’t crit, and master of misdirection isn’t a 33% damage increase on confusion (amazing if it was). It’s 33% longer duration for your confusion applications.

Syric.1936:

For the sake of the argument/discussion, I’ve noted that retaliation can toss out low #s of 200dmg, or spike off for over 700-1k if crit/squishy.

No you haven’t. Retaliation returns a flat amount of damage per hit. This amount is determined by your power and nothing else. Your build has 1126 power, producing a retaliation damage per hit of 186. This will increase if you have might, but generally you’ll see it between 186 and 200ish. There is nothing else that can affect the amount it returns.

Syric.1936:

Now, even at 200dmg, that supplements my build by adding to the torment/bleed/confusion/etc stacks already slamming the opponent. It’s one more “tick” that’s adding up to the overall “damage-over-time” I’m causing my opponent, which increases the pressure and spike I’ve dealt them.

Sure, retaliation does damage, but that’s a silly argument to make. Your autoattack also does damage…but that’s not why you use it, you use it for the torment/bleeding/burning.
There’s a very few cases where retaliation damage becomes noticable. Rapid multi-hit attacks can proc significant retaliation damage. This is basically blurred frenzy, pistol whip, 100b, whirling wrath, flamethrower, unload, the pistol stealth attack. Of these, nobody uses flamethrower, unload, or the pistol stealth attack. If you eat a full pistol whip, 100b, or whirling wrath, the damage you took from those will be 10x what you returned with retaliation. So basically, there’s one skill in the game that will return significant amounts of retaliation without also killing you: blurred frenzy. Doesn’t seem worth it to me.

Syric.1936:

Now, on the flip-side, I’ve noticed when using Master Of Misdirection (33% increase on confusion), this has caused some great results in damage output. Typically, I can see confusion dmg increased from 500-1k (normally) to over 1.5k+ (only when Master Of Misdirection is in use). Upfront, more dmg potential, but confusion has to land to stack, whereas retaliation fires off when they attack me.

Master of misdirection (as skcamow said) increases the duration of confusion by 33%. It says this quite clearly on the tooltip, so you may want to pay a bit more attention to the traits you’re taking. It can potentially cause higher confusion hits if you use that increased duration to stack more confusion, but generally it’s just going to cause more confusion hits due to that duration increase.