Guild Wars 2

Was interested in hearing what people thought about how mesmers did in the recent Tournament of Legends.
I watched 5 or 6 NA matches, only saw 1 Mesmer, mostly used for portal (to great effect when they did though).
On the other hand, I heard Mesmers were used a lot more in the EU tournament.

What can be said about the state of Mesmer pvp balance after seeing “the pros” in this tournament?

EU winner won with a Mesmer.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2471ry/tourney_of_legends_tcg_builds/

Heard some people wondering what the team comp/builds were for the winners of the European TOL, so I went through the vod, and scribbled down what I saw in their games vs CarCrash.

Helseth – Mesmer http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRlknpWtlpxUNcrNipxg6yObOSGQDlMkxB-TJBFwAl2fYxlAoaZAAPBAA

Denshee – Elementalist http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcMKc25wxBd0AiAB5ukqRBlfHTB-TJhIwAAOBAX2f47DAQYZAA

Rom – Warrior http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAT3cjMdUFahHmhwJaghgC9KUCxgpAQ9ZE7dBA-TpBFwAIOCAOuAAl2fwaZgFPAAAHEAA (sometimes axe/sword, sometimes axe/shield, he alters the build).

Sizer – Thief http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsYVl0MpwpVOx7J8PNBNB5dY+SZ0KAdfko0XA-TZBFwACeAAl2fYxRAoaZAAnCAA

Tage – Guardian http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNApeWlsApVo1CxeI8DNhDBldKq/9xuCd4DXFAA-TJBHwALLDA4JA0b/hBnCAA

An interesting thing to note, at least for me, the winning team did not use spirit rangers, condi engineers, minionmancers, or hambow warriors; all of which are generally thought of (at least when I play and read the forums) as cheese or lame builds.

I don’t think it says anything just based off either it means there are possibilities for more changes. Mesmer shatters would be effective to knock might stacks off opponents you can build the mesmer to rip boons that’s another possibility.

Need more time and tournaments to get a really good assessment of every class maybe except Guardian.

No need for a counter, I never gave a position myself. I’m curious about what can be said about the state of mesmers based on the performance of “the pros” in the ToL.
The builds used, how effective they were, how often they were used, what role they fulfilled on the team, etc.
You see a lot of random claims and grumbling going on by hotjoiners and pvp-nobodies on the forums. Now we have a fairly objective and recent “measuring stick” in the form of the ToL to reference and base some discussion on.

For example, in what you posted we see that many of the “cheese builds” that the community often deems “OP” didn’t get used by the tournament winner. That implies that the builds in question aren’t as “OP” as many people would have you think, and the ToL now acts as a somewhat objective measure of that.

My apologies for the counter comment I removed that part of my post.

Sample size is to small still but I think all classes have a place with Necromancers on the outside looking in to find a place now.

Just looking at ToL EU mesmer must work just that NA teams might not be trying them atm but look at TCG’s results and see how well it works.

I am still waiting for a dream of lockdown/interrupt mes being viable in tourneys. Ya know, one that actually takes a lot of talent and skill to play unlike double warrior and bunker comps.

One thing I wonder about Helseth’s spec is why halting strike? I’ve not seen any of the matches (where they recorded?) and I’d like to know if he gets enough interrupts to make up for loosing mental torment.

Neurophen.9738:

One thing I wonder about Helseth’s spec is why halting strike? I’ve not seen any of the matches (where they recorded?) and I’d like to know if he gets enough interrupts to make up for loosing mental torment.

It was proven that if you landed in a fight a interrupt every 10-12 seconds you out dps mental torment. Since helseth is really good at interrupting people it is a better trait for him. Also, gs staff has a lot of aoe interrupts which means more damage in a team fight.

Interesting, thanks.

Mesmers are good for mobility with portal(one of the best tpvp skills)

Neurophen.9738:

One thing I wonder about Helseth’s spec is why halting strike? I’ve not seen any of the matches (where they recorded?) and I’d like to know if he gets enough interrupts to make up for loosing mental torment.

Interrupts oppp lol no they are really strong for any type of counter play. Vs hammer war ele ranger and my favorite d/p thief! I didnt tune in to the tourny but interupting can change the tides of battle, if you interupt an ele after they drop a water field they cant blast it. Try it out its fun and ppl get really annoyed. Only class it doesnt shine against is guard with the block heal

I’ve played lockdown specs thanks.

apparently not if you don’t know the value of interrupting an oppenent.

Uh the internet <3 where everyone assumes the worst of everyone else.

All I asked is does he get enough interrupts to make up for the lower mindwrack burst. Apparently it does, great. Case closed.

Don’t mistake the skill of the player with the viability of the class.

Was there a video record of the match?
Also am guessing he might not have been running solo but always with someone who can really bust.

P.S.
Don’t really play the other classes so don’t know much about their build, traits and skills types. but will you say

Ele = Bust
Mes = CC/sustain damage
War = Bust/tank
Thf = Bust/Support
Gar = Tank/Healer

Will you say that is right from their build?

jefferson.8317:

Don’t mistake the skill of the player with the viability of the class.

Even more than this. In order to effectively run a mesmer, a team needs both an extremely skilled mesmer and the entire team needs to be highly skilled and coordinated. You can have the best mesmer in the game, but if you don’t make use of how they play, if you don’t give them opportunities for burst or make good usage of their portals, you’ll still be better off just grabbing another hambow.

1) Helseth is the best (PvP) Mesmer in the game
2) His team was very effective at body blocking him and allowing him to kite enemies.

Pyroathiest.4168:

jefferson.8317:

Don’t mistake the skill of the player with the viability of the class.

Even more than this. In order to effectively run a mesmer, a team needs both an extremely skilled mesmer and the entire team needs to be highly skilled and coordinated. You can have the best mesmer in the game, but if you don’t make use of how they play, if you don’t give them opportunities for burst or make good usage of their portals, you’ll still be better off just grabbing another hambow.

Rom from TCG addressed hambow and double war comps from the NA ToL and why they didn’t run double War comps. The game for top teams has always been about team work, rotations, and skilled players and less about the builds. Conditions are what pushed mesmer out before, but since almost everything is power now and conditions for necros are nerfed I can’t see why Mesmer’s wouldn’t be viable. Most top engineers are running power anyway not conditions.

Rom.4536:

To be frank, it is a reason why us in TCG does not run double hambow. 1, it is cheesy. But 2, it is not OP. It is surely counterable. I read a few comments here about “because that class or spec didnt reach finals obviously it needs buff or what not” or “look at final teams obviously WAR needs nerf”.

I bet they could have pracced with only 1 WAR also and probably hit the finals anyways.

People seem to be so harsh at judging a mere 10days since a huge patch that made a lot of impact on both gameplay such as theorycraft.

I can tell you already that I didnt see anybody using the most “OP” things yet on ToL NA. We The Civilized Gentlemen didnt find our complete perfected line-up with builds yet. We already noticed a lot of other things that we didnt even use in the EU ToL just a few days after.

I’m simply stating, stop being so drastic in judgement and basing all of your ideas off of this ToL in NA. Some talk about buffs and nerfs like thats the answer to your issues. Its fun how people just cant stand maybe not being as superior as you they think they are. Simply train with mates and become better instead of shoving the NERF-towel into the winners face.

oZii.2864:

Rom from TCG addressed hambow and double war comps from the NA ToL and why they didn’t run double War comps. The game for top teams has always been about team work, rotations, and skilled players and less about the builds. Conditions are what pushed mesmer out before, but since almost everything is power now and conditions for necros are nerfed I can’t see why Mesmer’s wouldn’t be viable. Most top engineers are running power anyway not conditions.

You’re not correct here. Conditions is not what pushed mesmer out. Conditions have always been a problem for shatter builds, but there have also always been ways of dealing with them. What pushed mesmers out is thieves. A shatter mesmer has incredibly few ways to deal with a very skilled s/d or s/p thief. This means that they end up relying on their team to peel for them.

Now, this is where the skill level comes in. You need a highly skilled mesmer to not just flop over and die when assaulted by a good thief. You also need a highly skilled team to know when peeling is necessary, and to execute it effectively.

Conditions have always been dealt with through positioning. You keep the mesmer out of the middle of the skirmish and your condition class has to choose between chasing a mesmer (futile) or actually being useful by pumping conditions into a fight. This isn’t the same case with a thief. You bring a thief specifically to chase down dangerous targets like mesmers. They’re not making a choice between greater effectiveness or chasing a mesmer, that’s the whole reason they are on the team. On top of that, a thief chases effectively, unlike a condition class. Where a mesmer can avoid a condition build indefinitely, a thief will catch the mesmer rapidly and absolutely requires teams to peel.

oZii.2864:

People seem to be so harsh at judging a mere 10days since a huge patch that made a lot of impact on both gameplay such as theorycraft.

I can tell you already that I didnt see anybody using the most “OP” things yet on ToL NA. We The Civilized Gentlemen didnt find our complete perfected line-up with builds yet. We already noticed a lot of other things that we didnt even use in the EU ToL just a few days after.

I’m simply stating, stop being so drastic in judgement and basing all of your ideas off of this ToL in NA. Some talk about buffs and nerfs like thats the answer to your issues. Its fun how people just cant stand maybe not being as superior as you they think they are. Simply train with mates and become better instead of shoving the NERF-towel into the winners face.

For truth, yeah. It was obvious watching NA ToL that people are still discovering the new meta and best builds to use, simply by virtue of the diverse amount of builds being run.

Anet likes to talk about how it takes time for new changes to burn in and the new meta to emerge following a balance patch. Their changes up to this point have never been drastic enough to fully warrant that stance IMO, but in this case it makes sense. I don’t believe the most powerful specs post 4/15 have been found yet and it’s going to take time.

This

Pyroathiest.4168:

jefferson.8317:

Don’t mistake the skill of the player with the viability of the class.

Even more than this. In order to effectively run a mesmer, a team needs both an extremely skilled mesmer and the entire team needs to be highly skilled and coordinated. You can have the best mesmer in the game, but if you don’t make use of how they play, if you don’t give them opportunities for burst or make good usage of their portals, you’ll still be better off just grabbing another hambow.

And this

Pyroathiest.4168:

oZii.2864:

Rom from TCG addressed hambow and double war comps from the NA ToL and why they didn’t run double War comps. The game for top teams has always been about team work, rotations, and skilled players and less about the builds. Conditions are what pushed mesmer out before, but since almost everything is power now and conditions for necros are nerfed I can’t see why Mesmer’s wouldn’t be viable. Most top engineers are running power anyway not conditions.

You’re not correct here. Conditions is not what pushed mesmer out. Conditions have always been a problem for shatter builds, but there have also always been ways of dealing with them. What pushed mesmers out is thieves. A shatter mesmer has incredibly few ways to deal with a very skilled s/d or s/p thief. This means that they end up relying on their team to peel for them.

Now, this is where the skill level comes in. You need a highly skilled mesmer to not just flop over and die when assaulted by a good thief. You also need a highly skilled team to know when peeling is necessary, and to execute it effectively.

Conditions have always been dealt with through positioning. You keep the mesmer out of the middle of the skirmish and your condition class has to choose between chasing a mesmer (futile) or actually being useful by pumping conditions into a fight. This isn’t the same case with a thief. You bring a thief specifically to chase down dangerous targets like mesmers. They’re not making a choice between greater effectiveness or chasing a mesmer, that’s the whole reason they are on the team. On top of that, a thief chases effectively, unlike a condition class. Where a mesmer can avoid a condition build indefinitely, a thief will catch the mesmer rapidly and absolutely requires teams to peel.

On high level tpvp mesmer is in party for 2 reasons:
1) portal (that is the main reason)
2) shattered concentration (high rate boons stripping)

The build who let you take both giving best survability is the shatter build. The ranged hellseth shatter build (staff and gs) add mobility and survability compared to normal shatter build with gs (or staff)\sword+offhand. Ranged shatter build it’s also less predictable than normal shatter build (ileap simply sux and every experienced player know how to deal with it thx to anet and ground issue)

Then you need a well coordinated party to take advantage of portal.
And you need skilled mates to take you alive when thieves becomes too much dangerous. And you need to be skilled to stand alive avoiding, kiting, blinking as much as possible.

On a side note portal is our best friend but it’s also the reason why on high level tpvp every mesmer is a shatter mesmer cause basically we have just 2 utility for us (blink and decoy\nullfield) so it becomes very hard to find a place for mantra of distraction for lockdown