Guild Wars 2

It’s time to roll PU condtion/power based braindead builds in wvw?

I like how there are basically two states of builds for most players in this game:

• Wins more than average, i.e., “balanced” if it’s my own class, “overpowered” if it’s on someone else’.
• RIP.

That’s it. Because middle-ground is where no one wants to be.

I play a full zerk shatter mesmer and I was expecting the crit dmg nerf to really hit that build, but I have to gladly admit that full zerk shatter is still viable, while we can feel that our damage has been reduced , I can also feel that other people damage went down.

This lead to a slow paced fight feeling but well gotta adapt to what the game has become.

I dueled many people in wvw since patch and it’s still a good build, damage are still good and the build mechanic didn’t changed so it’s ok for me.

What worry me the most is the fact that with the dps loss we’re no more able to kill people before they flee or to kill slow ones at the bus tail fast enough before being spotted.
Due to our low chasing mobility we NEED to kill them before they flee ,but now that part is kinda gone, and we have to rely on other people wanting to fight till the end even more than before, or else we’re juste some guys running after people that get out of range in no time.

I won my duels because everyone is willing to fight to try their class after patch but I wasn’t able to kill fast enough the ones that wanted to flee , they were able to disengage before reaching the critical 10%-15%hp (glassy ones included).

ps : all that is from solo roaming perspective.

Another point to throw on the long list of why this Ferocity change was poorly thought out and not needed.

iNtEnTiOnS.9562:

It’s time to roll PU condtion/power based braindead builds in wvw?

Um, I’m running 20/20/0/0/30 shatter build and doing amazing with it.
Strength rune.
Berserker jewelry
Sword/focus (energy/generosity sigil)
Greatsword (energy/battle)
I’m oneshotting cheese builds like spirit ranger.

KarinaCO.6948:

iNtEnTiOnS.9562:

It’s time to roll PU condtion/power based braindead builds in wvw?

I’m oneshotting cheese builds like spirit ranger.

This is a joke right? Plz tell me you’re joking? right?? ?? ???? ?? ? ??

SPvP was not affected. So yes, shatter is still “viable”. (it’s still subpar compared to other builds) It’s actually my go to build.

However in WvW is another story…

It’s very viable in WvW, boon strip shatter mesmer is amazing for any guild group and should be a staple in any group comp. Zip in and out stripping massive boons better than any other class and delivering decent burst damage, dazes etc. I would say shatter is still the most viable build for guild groups, for roaming/pugs maybe not. For those who say otherwise need to learn how to play mesmer.

I only use shatter for damage purpose. I know very well that a shatter build can be traited for boon stripping too but sadly I have not tried it yet.

I enjoy shatter mainly because of its hectic (or perhaps tactical) appoach and it is of course unique to mesmer. So may I ask what other variant builds that is based upon a shatter build set up?

Levetty.1279:

Another point to throw on the long list of why this Ferocity change was poorly thought out and not needed.

Actually it’s good. A shatter mes will have an easier time surviving vs power/crit burst. Meanwhile Anet can start increasing the damage on particular class features where needed, i.e. shatters, or blurred frenzy, etc.

I do think power shatter needs some help. With the vigor nerf and ferocity, power shatter mesmer is taking a lot of hits with no compensation. Perhaps move vigorous revelation from inspiration to illusions, since shatter works horrible in that trait line and there isn’t a must have major adept trait in illusions. Perhaps swap that to confounding power since confounding power can form better synergy with phantasm builds.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I do think power shatter needs some help. With the vigor nerf and ferocity, power shatter mesmer is taking a lot of hits with no compensation. Perhaps move vigorous revelation from inspiration to illusions, since shatter works horrible in that trait line and there isn’t a must have major adept trait in illusions. Perhaps swap that to confounding power since confounding power can form better synergy with phantasm builds.

Just saying, the vigor and ferocity changes hit all classes not just us. Of course shatter mesmers feel it pretty good, but I’ve hardly had a problem bursting people in the past and I doubt this will be the difference. The whole point of them changing Critical Infusion was so that we wouldn’t have access to permanent uptime of vigor without really giving anything up for it stats wise. So switching Compounding Power and Vigorous Revelation would completely defeat the purpose of this nerf. There isn’t much you can really change about power shatter builds without making them more powerful than they should be. They still do good burst to squishy people, and mediocre burst to tanky ones. I’m not sure what else could be done to make us better without breaking something else.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Levetty.1279:

Another point to throw on the long list of why this Ferocity change was poorly thought out and not needed.

Actually it’s good. A shatter mes will have an easier time surviving vs power/crit burst. Meanwhile Anet can start increasing the damage on particular class features where needed, i.e. shatters, or blurred frenzy, etc.

But the top builds (condition damage) got even harder to kill.

I also run a 20/20/0/0/30 build after update. I am actually really loving it. The torment is fun. There is still some work to be done for us mesmers but I am having fun with what we have. Have a great day everyone!

CrazyDuck.4610:

It’s very viable in WvW, boon strip shatter mesmer is amazing for any guild group and should be a staple in any group comp. Zip in and out stripping massive boons better than any other class and delivering decent burst damage, dazes etc. I would say shatter is still the most viable build for guild groups, for roaming/pugs maybe not. For those who say otherwise need to learn how to play mesmer.

This x1000. I don’t understand people saying that power shatter isn’t viable in wvw. For me, it’s our most effective group build. And despite the recent vigor/crit dmg nerf, I’m still bursting squishies really fast.

GS/Staff Shatter was working ok in tpvp right before the patch, although needed organised team to take full advantage of portal, usually thief in same team and had very high skill cap. It is a bit stronger now, as we have 2 extra sigils and thief/warrior being hit harder by lyssa nerf. Only issue is condi specs seem to have got even stronger with this patch.

Jackums.3496:

Shatter is “viable” in tPvP. With a good team, twice the effort and half the reward.
Shatter is “viable” in WvW. With a good group, and very low solo roaming survivability.

I know there are plenty of people that want to look at the brighter side of things (ignorance is bliss, and all), but acknowledging the issue is more likely to get something done about it, and there is an issue. Shatter is mediocre in tPvP, and the Mesmer overall is easily one of the bottom two professions in this meta. Shatter is also terrible for WvW roaming without a good group. It’s in a relatively bad place right now.

While I agree with your tPvP opinion, I highly disagree with the WvW one. I solo roam and small group with a power shatter build and have no problem at all. Watching Vashury, Wing and Alissah’s videos comfort me in my opinion. Btw take a look at last Vash video on his channel. He’s dueling a condi PU build… naked. Shatter is definitly “terrible”.

Nausicca.6038:

Jackums.3496:

Shatter is “viable” in tPvP. With a good team, twice the effort and half the reward.
Shatter is “viable” in WvW. With a good group, and very low solo roaming survivability.

I know there are plenty of people that want to look at the brighter side of things (ignorance is bliss, and all), but acknowledging the issue is more likely to get something done about it, and there is an issue. Shatter is mediocre in tPvP, and the Mesmer overall is easily one of the bottom two professions in this meta. Shatter is also terrible for WvW roaming without a good group. It’s in a relatively bad place right now.

While I agree with your tPvP opinion, I highly disagree with the WvW one. I solo roam and small group with a power shatter build and have no problem at all. Watching Vashury, Wing and Alissah’s videos comfort me in my opinion. Btw take a look at last Vash video on his channel. He’s dueling a condi PU build… naked. Shatter is definitly “terrible”.

You forget that skill matters. Vashury is an incredible player, so he can achieve success with a build that is objectively less effective.

Recursivision.2367:

Shatter builds were previously one of the best burst damage specs in the game. They are still one of the best burst damage specs in the game. Adjust sigils and runes as necessary.

Excellent at bursting down crowd controlled or ambushed squishies.
Rather terrible at dealing with most other things, being too low of damage to seriously threaten bunkers or balanced specs, reliance on pathing/ai mechanics, and fairly predictable timing windows.

The strength of shatter was/continues to be small group aoe damage with boon removal. Is one decent to have in a small groups in wvw? Yeah. Is it handy for mid fights? Generally. Is it going to force people off a point by itself? Less often.

Raunchy.6891:

Just saying, the vigor and ferocity changes hit all classes not just us. Of course shatter mesmers feel it pretty good, but I’ve hardly had a problem bursting people in the past and I doubt this will be the difference. The whole point of them changing Critical Infusion was so that we wouldn’t have access to permanent uptime of vigor without really giving anything up for it stats wise. So switching Compounding Power and Vigorous Revelation would completely defeat the purpose of this nerf. There isn’t much you can really change about power shatter builds without making them more powerful than they should be. They still do good burst to squishy people, and mediocre burst to tanky ones. I’m not sure what else could be done to make us better without breaking something else.

The reason why I suggested this is for specific changes to shatter mesmers. It is great in bursting but hard to sustain damage compares to other builds. Especially when sustain damage become essential following ferocity. Each burst has a long gap of 11.5s and we’re usually down to one phantasm, few weapon skills and auto-attack to sustain it, leaving so much space for opponent to fully recover. Hardly an ideal situation when looking at other builds and professions. It is sad to see power shatter limited to squishy opponents just like us and hard to counter condition tanks and high regen opponents, both of which is quite frequent in WvW.

While phantasm builds get buffed and PU build remained as powerful as before, it’s hard to uplevel shatter and encourage players to play it. Changing VR and CP will address shatter specifically and not ALL mesmers will get long time vigor. Plus this vigor is to be obtained by actively shattering and situations may demand us to hold off from that. Vigor nerf hits shatter mesmer harder than the rest of the professions because we use DE clones for both offensive and defensive play. You can argue that we use weapon skills instead but again this leaves us with limited sustain damage after the burst. Putting VR into illusions won’t make power shatter more powerful, all it does is return us to pre-patch with additional restriction. Regardless of the patch, shatter mesmer already give up sustain damage when doing burst, asking us to give up more is quite disheartening.

Of course I do not mean to say power shatter is no longer viable in WvW or PvP, as a matter of fact I never said such a thing. But given the recent changes power shatter has become harder to play while it is already a hard build pre-patch. Something needs to be done on power shatter or it’ll become more like a “pro-only” build.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

The reason why I suggested this is for specific changes to shatter mesmers. It is great in bursting but hard to sustain damage compares to other builds. Especially when sustain damage become essential following ferocity. Each burst has a long gap of 11.5s and we’re usually down to one phantasm, few weapon skills and auto-attack to sustain it, leaving so much space for opponent to fully recover. Hardly an ideal situation when looking at other builds and professions. It is sad to see power shatter limited to squishy opponents just like us and hard to counter condition tanks and high regen opponents, both of which is quite frequent in WvW.

While phantasm builds get buffed and PU build remained as powerful as before, it’s hard to uplevel shatter and encourage players to play it.

I mean that’s how burst classes work though. You do your burst then pressure with phantasms and weapon skills. You’re not going to tell me that blurred frenzy, pistol phantasm, Zerker phantasm, sword phantasm, or mirror blade don’t do enough damage to pressure someone after we burst. I’m not saying it’s easy, but playing shatter hasn’t been easy for a long time.

Also I don’t recall phantasm builds getting any kind of buff. The only thing we got that could be considered a buff is to our condition shatter builds.

RIP is a bit extreme.

I have finally had a chance to play and certainly noticed the reduction in burst damage. However it’s still possible to play, although a bit harder – just tweaking stats at the moment.

Unfortunalely I am feeling pushed to use the GS.

Still playing 20/20/0/0/30 (or 4/4/0/0/6) with quite some success. ArenaNet might throw as many obstacles in my way as they want, i won’t stop using this most iconic and (for me) fun to play mesmer build.

And yes, i’m using GS, as i did pre-patch. Currently using Energy + Accuracy on both sets, pushing me to 56% critchance without using precision food.