Guild Wars 2

I don’t normally post on the mesmer forum, which is surprising as I really like the profession. I have a few builds on the back burner waiting for the right time to open them up and bring them out to the community. One build that I REALLY REALLY like just can’t function in any practical situation, but the concept just sounds so fun that can can resist making this suggestion. As this suggestion would effect the mesmer the most, I’ll post it here.

To start, the mesmer has some very interesting chaos using random conditions and boons. I really like this idea, and I enjoyed it from launch. The problem is that it isn’t always that practical. You often would rather get burning then a poison in some situations or vis versa, but there isn’t a catalyst to really support a build that takes advantage of short burst and somewhat random condition application.

In Guild Wars 1 there was a hex called Fragility. What this did was it would deal damage when a new condition would be applied, or a old condition was removed/fell off. GW2 has something like this in the forum of Phantasmal Warlock, but it only triggers a few seconds and cares about number of conditions and not if they are applied or fall off.

A condition that functions like Fragility would allow for new condition builds to pop up in the meta game, and increase the diversity of condition builds. This would help take off the pressure that bleeding has on most professions and get players something interesting to play with.

The 2 professions that I think should have a condition like this would be the mesmer(obviously) and the engineer. These 2 professions would benefit the most from a condition like this. As their conditions tend to be shorter duration and harder to sustain.

Please consider this idea. I know I’ve posted it before. But I have a serious craving for this build and I think it would be a good idea.

So you want to take the condition meta currently in play, and add even more conditoins, and more dps to it?

And you want this idea to be supported.

Got it.

Ross Biddle.2367:

So you want to take the condition meta currently in play, and add even more conditoins, and more dps to it?

And you want this idea to be supported.

Got it.

What condition meta? You mean fighting feverishly for bleed stacks? because that is what it is. And in PvP, there is SO much cleansing and even some IMMUNITY, I want diversity in this game, and every update feels like they are actually removing build diversity from the game.

“Its too hard. Its too complicated. I can’t remember 12 conditions… Why are their so many numbers!” Pokemon is a more complicated game then GW2 will ever be and that is for children. A few more conditions isn’t going to harm anything.

Lily.1935:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So you want to take the condition meta currently in play, and add even more conditoins, and more dps to it?

And you want this idea to be supported.

Got it.

What condition meta? You mean fighting feverishly for bleed stacks? because that is what it is. And in PvP, there is SO much cleansing and even some IMMUNITY, I want diversity in this game, and every update feels like they are actually removing build diversity from the game.

“Its too hard. Its too complicated. I can’t remember 12 conditions… Why are their so many numbers!” Pokemon is a more complicated game then GW2 will ever be and that is for children. A few more conditions isn’t going to harm anything.

I remember back when nobody ran condi cleansing because the meta was power/crit glass cannons. Confusion was the only condition than was feared and thus cried about (nobody could cleanse since they didn’t come equipped). Why do you think there’s so much cleansing now? People aren’t building for it for no reason. Condition meta leads to cleanse meta. The latter doesn’t exist without the former. What do you think furthering the number of conditions, and the total amount of dps from conditions is going to do? Further the anti condi meta.

There’s nothing wrong with that btw. It’s just… adding another condition and more dps? What’s really changing here.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lily.1935:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So you want to take the condition meta currently in play, and add even more conditoins, and more dps to it?

And you want this idea to be supported.

Got it.

What condition meta? You mean fighting feverishly for bleed stacks? because that is what it is. And in PvP, there is SO much cleansing and even some IMMUNITY, I want diversity in this game, and every update feels like they are actually removing build diversity from the game.

“Its too hard. Its too complicated. I can’t remember 12 conditions… Why are their so many numbers!” Pokemon is a more complicated game then GW2 will ever be and that is for children. A few more conditions isn’t going to harm anything.

I remember back when nobody ran condi cleansing because the meta was power/crit glass cannons. Confusion was the only condition than was feared and thus cried about (nobody could cleanse since they didn’t come equipped). Why do you think there’s so much cleansing now? People aren’t building for it for no reason. Condition meta leads to cleanse meta. The latter doesn’t exist without the former. What do you think furthering the number of conditions, and the total amount of dps from conditions is going to do? Further the anti condi meta.

There’s nothing wrong with that btw. It’s just… adding another condition and more dps? What’s really changing here.

build diversity. Which is sorely needed in the game.

Wooow that gave me an Idea:

Let’s see what it’d be when the warlock’s behaviour would be changed completely:

Behaviour:
Make him apply a debuff named “Fragility” (NOT A CONDITION). The phantasm applies debuff that lasts 4s every 6s with a dodgeable attack.
Fragility: Whenever the enemy is inflicted with a new condition or looses a whole stack of a condition (doesn’t work when dropping bleeds (e.g. from 2stacks to 1 stack) ) the warlock is forced to attack with a powerbased attack.

Visuals:
I’d make the debuff with an animated link between phantasm and foe.

that would be ok with me.. the problem with mesmer is that it cant reliably inflict high stacks of any condition.. and the only way to get ok-ish stacks of bleeding is thru pistol and sharper images.. which happens to be a power spec (i dont get that our best condition applying method is in the duelist line)

the problem is that staff is too slow and conditions too short to do anything.. adding something that would hurt the enemy based on new conditions would help mesmers and engis (the 2 classes with the hardest time applying conditions) definatly dont give it to necros though (cus then theyd be even more OP than they already are)

You can stack plenty of Bleeds with the GS clones and Sharper Images as well. Easier to create those than waiting around for a Phantasm. Engineer’s does not have a hard time applying conditions, saying that is almost like not knowing what a profession is capable of. They even put up faster Confusion than Mesmers are able to do, they got Burns, Cripples, Bleeds, Poison, etc. and can quickly apply them. The Mesmer also doesn’t suffer if built for Conditions for that matter. I just don’t like Conditions, and don’t tend to run with these in mind myself. I find the game to be way too much Condition Wars already, where conditions are doing as much damage as direct power, but additionally allowing you to build yourself into a bunker. It’s poor design.

Also keep in mind that shorter duration conditions, when they can be applied often, is a good thing. If you can have a Burn that ticks for 1 second and deals 4000 damage, or a Burn that ticks for 5 seconds (focusing a bit more on duration and not all on damage) and deals 4000 damage, the 1 second Burn wins. The longer a condition lasts, the more chance of it being cleansed, rendering it less effective.

only… all conditions are the same….. mesmer burning isnt any more powerful than guardian burning..,. and they get much more of it.

i would prefer longer durations… sure it can be cleansed.. but if it isnt it keeps going…

the biggest problem is that condition mesmers rely on the enemy killing themselves..

if they enemy refuses to fight back.. the mesmer cant win.

Adrianna.3092:

that would be ok with me.. the problem with mesmer is that it cant reliably inflict high stacks of any condition.. and the only way to get ok-ish stacks of bleeding is thru pistol and sharper images.. which happens to be a power spec (i dont get that our best condition applying method is in the duelist line)

the problem is that staff is too slow and conditions too short to do anything.. adding something that would hurt the enemy based on new conditions would help mesmers and engis (the 2 classes with the hardest time applying conditions) definatly dont give it to necros though (cus then theyd be even more OP than they already are)

the necromancer has enough sustain condition damage that I wouldn’t suggest giving it to them. The Necromancer is very well off when it comes to damage, Direct or condition. I will never say the necro is OP though. Not with being straight up walled by some professions, poor mobility, and little to no defensive abilities.

Absconditus.6804:

You can stack plenty of Bleeds with the GS clones and Sharper Images as well. Easier to create those than waiting around for a Phantasm. Engineer’s does not have a hard time applying conditions, saying that is almost like not knowing what a profession is capable of. They even put up faster Confusion than Mesmers are able to do, they got Burns, Cripples, Bleeds, Poison, etc. and can quickly apply them. The Mesmer also doesn’t suffer if built for Conditions for that matter. I just don’t like Conditions, and don’t tend to run with these in mind myself. I find the game to be way too much Condition Wars already, where conditions are doing as much damage as direct power, but additionally allowing you to build yourself into a bunker. It’s poor design.

Also keep in mind that shorter duration conditions, when they can be applied often, is a good thing. If you can have a Burn that ticks for 1 second and deals 4000 damage, or a Burn that ticks for 5 seconds (focusing a bit more on duration and not all on damage) and deals 4000 damage, the 1 second Burn wins. The longer a condition lasts, the more chance of it being cleansed, rendering it less effective.

You don’t like conditions, I love conditions. And many people agree with you and many agree with me. Also, Like I’ve said, I’ve made this suggestion before. I also suggested it with a boon that reduces condition damage. Because the way to counter conditions shouldn’t be COMPLETE IMMUNITY TO THEM. I’m looking at you Elementalist.

Lily.1935:

Absconditus.6804:

You can stack plenty of Bleeds with the GS clones and Sharper Images as well. Easier to create those than waiting around for a Phantasm. Engineer’s does not have a hard time applying conditions, saying that is almost like not knowing what a profession is capable of. They even put up faster Confusion than Mesmers are able to do, they got Burns, Cripples, Bleeds, Poison, etc. and can quickly apply them. The Mesmer also doesn’t suffer if built for Conditions for that matter. I just don’t like Conditions, and don’t tend to run with these in mind myself. I find the game to be way too much Condition Wars already, where conditions are doing as much damage as direct power, but additionally allowing you to build yourself into a bunker. It’s poor design.

Also keep in mind that shorter duration conditions, when they can be applied often, is a good thing. If you can have a Burn that ticks for 1 second and deals 4000 damage, or a Burn that ticks for 5 seconds (focusing a bit more on duration and not all on damage) and deals 4000 damage, the 1 second Burn wins. The longer a condition lasts, the more chance of it being cleansed, rendering it less effective.

You don’t like conditions, I love conditions. And many people agree with you and many agree with me. Also, Like I’ve said, I’ve made this suggestion before. I also suggested it with a boon that reduces condition damage. Because the way to counter conditions shouldn’t be COMPLETE IMMUNITY TO THEM. I’m looking at you Elementalist.

Ha.
Hahaha.
Hahahahahaha.
If you are complaining about not being able to do 2k damage (which is the practical maximum) and then keep them from regaining it on a light armor class, you have build problems.

That being said, I think DS needs to be changed to something different as well, like reflecting projectiles while under the effect of an aura or something more diamondy and less annoying to both parties.

Lily.1935:

Absconditus.6804:

You can stack plenty of Bleeds with the GS clones and Sharper Images as well. Easier to create those than waiting around for a Phantasm. Engineer’s does not have a hard time applying conditions, saying that is almost like not knowing what a profession is capable of. They even put up faster Confusion than Mesmers are able to do, they got Burns, Cripples, Bleeds, Poison, etc. and can quickly apply them. The Mesmer also doesn’t suffer if built for Conditions for that matter. I just don’t like Conditions, and don’t tend to run with these in mind myself. I find the game to be way too much Condition Wars already, where conditions are doing as much damage as direct power, but additionally allowing you to build yourself into a bunker. It’s poor design.

Also keep in mind that shorter duration conditions, when they can be applied often, is a good thing. If you can have a Burn that ticks for 1 second and deals 4000 damage, or a Burn that ticks for 5 seconds (focusing a bit more on duration and not all on damage) and deals 4000 damage, the 1 second Burn wins. The longer a condition lasts, the more chance of it being cleansed, rendering it less effective.

You don’t like conditions, I love conditions. And many people agree with you and many agree with me. Also, Like I’ve said, I’ve made this suggestion before. I also suggested it with a boon that reduces condition damage. Because the way to counter conditions shouldn’t be COMPLETE IMMUNITY TO THEM. I’m looking at you Elementalist.

I actually do like conditions, I phrased it a bit poorly, I mean that I don’t like to use them myself, or to build into using them, but they do make the game more interesting. What I don’t like is how you can basically go into full Dire with Condition Damage, Vitality and Toughness, and still maintain damage that is comparable to—and in ways better than—that of say a glassier cannon who focuses on Power, Precision and Critical Damage. Easy fix? Make Toughness reduce damage on conditions as well, as in your clothing are wrapped tightly around your body to prevent excessive bleeding, not enough poison got through to properly damage you, etc.—I do not see why there needs to be a boon that can be stripped for reducing condition damage, although they could just as well make Protection affect conditions too. Toughness is a permanent decrease to physical damage, there should be one for conditions too.

If someone goes into any form of an invulnerable state (e.g., Distortion, Endure Pain, Renewed Focus, Mist Form, etc.), conditions still gets to deal damage too. Whoever is not doing conditions however, they’re locked out of damaging these individuals for this time period. I find the way it’s implemented, with the amount of damage it does (that can’t be mitigated—Vitality is not a mitigation, it doesn’t change the damage you take), to be unbalanced, that’s what I don’t like about conditions.

Absconditus.6804:

Lily.1935:

Absconditus.6804:

You can stack plenty of Bleeds with the GS clones and Sharper Images as well. Easier to create those than waiting around for a Phantasm. Engineer’s does not have a hard time applying conditions, saying that is almost like not knowing what a profession is capable of. They even put up faster Confusion than Mesmers are able to do, they got Burns, Cripples, Bleeds, Poison, etc. and can quickly apply them. The Mesmer also doesn’t suffer if built for Conditions for that matter. I just don’t like Conditions, and don’t tend to run with these in mind myself. I find the game to be way too much Condition Wars already, where conditions are doing as much damage as direct power, but additionally allowing you to build yourself into a bunker. It’s poor design.

Also keep in mind that shorter duration conditions, when they can be applied often, is a good thing. If you can have a Burn that ticks for 1 second and deals 4000 damage, or a Burn that ticks for 5 seconds (focusing a bit more on duration and not all on damage) and deals 4000 damage, the 1 second Burn wins. The longer a condition lasts, the more chance of it being cleansed, rendering it less effective.

You don’t like conditions, I love conditions. And many people agree with you and many agree with me. Also, Like I’ve said, I’ve made this suggestion before. I also suggested it with a boon that reduces condition damage. Because the way to counter conditions shouldn’t be COMPLETE IMMUNITY TO THEM. I’m looking at you Elementalist.

I actually do like conditions, I phrased it a bit poorly, I mean that I don’t like to use them myself, or to build into using them, but they do make the game more interesting. What I don’t like is how you can basically go into full Dire with Condition Damage, Vitality and Toughness, and still maintain damage that is comparable to—and in ways better than—that of say a glassier cannon who focuses on Power, Precision and Critical Damage. Easy fix? Make Toughness reduce damage on conditions as well, as in your clothing are wrapped tightly around your body to prevent excessive bleeding, not enough poison got through to properly damage you, etc.—I do not see why there needs to be a boon that can be stripped for reducing condition damage, although they could just as well make Protection affect conditions too. Toughness is a permanent decrease to physical damage, there should be one for conditions too.

If someone goes into any form of an invulnerable state (e.g., Distortion, Endure Pain, Renewed Focus, Mist Form, etc.), conditions still gets to deal damage too. Whoever is not doing conditions however, they’re locked out of damaging these individuals for this time period. I find the way it’s implemented, with the amount of damage it does (that can’t be mitigated—Vitality is not a mitigation, it doesn’t change the damage you take), to be unbalanced, that’s what I don’t like about conditions.

actually, most condition builds that need to maximize their damage need 3 stats in order to do so. Condition damage, condition duration and precision. Since a large majority of them us traits and sigils to apply more bleeds they are split as much. using a defensive condition build they lose about 10 stacks of bleed in order to do so. Dire is a really good armor set, but it does reduce damage.

And NO! Condition damage should NOT be effected by Toughness. Health is to Conditions as toughness is to physical damage. If you are having a problem with conditions, run more cleansing and have more health. If we did make conditions effected by armor, then I would highly suggest that conditions should be able to critical. Considering they cannot. You think conditions are bad now? Just wait until the necromancer can now critical off of bleeds and runs 0/30/0/10/30 and gets a good 100% crit chance while stacking 25 bleeds.