Guild Wars 2

Seriously, please look into this.

If your target is out of range, obstructed or if we are effected by certain conditions ie; Blind etc, make the skills not usable…..or at least block them with a message on the screen.

Sick to death of being hindered by cool down timers because one of the above. This goes for all skills that require a target to cast.

If your target is out of range, don’t cast an ability.

If you are blinded, don’t cast an ability with a cooldown.

If you don’t have LoS on a target, don’t cast an ability.

alanis.6094:

If your target is out of range, don’t cast an ability.

If you are blinded, don’t cast an ability with a cooldown.

If you don’t have LoS on a target, don’t cast an ability.

Blanket statements simply don’t cut it.

Trivial things can block your view, like a plank of wood that is 2 inches thick. A chest that you are taller then and can see over the top off, but for some reason, your magic cannot cast over the top….then you have chaotic fights going on in built up areas, jungles and forests.

Please stop trying to argue against this with such poor situational activities.

Mesmers are not the only class to be hindered by a cool down applied to a failed skill execution. Every class in the game is.

I for one do not play the game while staring at my hot bar, I prefer to enjoy the sceanry and key bind, however, this is besides the point. The point is, skills should not be able to be executed if we fall under certain conditions, range issues or obstructed.

It is simply a frustrating mechanic which doesn’t quite work as intended as I pointed out.

I have yet to get a lot of experience summoning Phantasms since the latest patch, but my initial guess was that they are now going to bug out and fail as much as Illusionary Leap and Arcane Thievery do. It would be nice to not be punished so harshly for having a tiny bump in your path blocking the skill… those two abilities are already annoying enough to try to work around their buggy behaviour.. and if this is how Phantasms are going to work as well… then kitten

Getting LoS messages for things that shouldn’t count as LoS should obviously be treated as a bug.

To suggest range and blind should be treated like a LoS bug is silly.

Casting while out of range, no los etc and having skills go on cooldown is an inbuilt skill check designed to punish unskilled players who just want to spam buttons. One of my fav features in gw2.

It’s pretty annoying too in Orr DEs when you go to cast Phantasmal Beserker (or one of the other very few AoE options) on a group of enemies and then your target dies before the cast is complete. You get no AoE and the skill goes on cool down, preventing you from casting it on something else. This wouldn’t be so frustrating if we had other viable AoE options to turn to, but as Mesmers alas we do not. Now LoS is going to be an issue…

I can’t see them ever completely removing it. The combat in this game is intended to be skill-based, not just hitting your number keys and hoping for the best. It’s about strategically using your skills when appropriate and taking into consideration things like range and positioning. There should be some downside to using a skill incorrectly.

That said, I do wish it wouldn’t go into full recharge, especially when you have skills that tend to bug out if you are on a slope or have random objects in your way. It’s especially punishing to Mesmers since most of our damage output relies on our illusions, and our autoattacks tend to be weaker compared to other classes.

Either that, or I have played other MMOs that will display the range of your target, which would be fairly useful since saying something has a range of “600” is really arbitrary. Some other MMOs have also made is so your skills will be tinted red if your target is out of range.

Cantatus.4065:

I can’t see them ever completely removing it. The combat in this game is intended to be skill-based, not just hitting your number keys and hoping for the best. It’s about strategically using your skills when appropriate and taking into consideration things like range and positioning. There should be some downside to using a skill incorrectly.

That said, I do wish it wouldn’t go into full recharge, especially when you have skills that tend to bug out if you are on a slope or have random objects in your way. It’s especially punishing to Mesmers since most of our damage output relies on our illusions, and our autoattacks tend to be weaker compared to other classes.

Either that, or I have played other MMOs that will display the range of your target, which would be fairly useful since saying something has a range of “600” is really arbitrary. Some other MMOs have also made is so your skills will be tinted red if your target is out of range.

I was in danger of completely disagreeing with you until I got to your second paragraph. I was never really a huge abuser of the LoS “bug” before this patch because it didn’t get me many kills anyways, but the fact that LoS doesn’t always work correctly in situations where you clearly have LoS makes me feel like this change is introducing more problems than it is fixing. That is not something you want to start doing in your patches.

Also I don’t think it’s really ANet’s intention to punish players “just hitting the number keys and hoping for the best.” If that is true then why don’t AoE’s go on cooldown after you attempt to cast them beyond their range? I agree that the game is skill based. There are mechanics in place that clearly demonstrate that. I just don’t think that this is one of those instances where ANet is in the right.

ANET didn’t really put any thought it to these nerfs. The cooldown on failure is ridiculous. The damage nerf borderline stupidity. The LOS issue, well, just turned mesmer’s in to siege controllers. I can’t believe the QQ about berserkers not needing LOS actually got them changed, considering one or two hits kills them. Once again ANET pandering to QQ of other classes.

Houdii.2563:

Casting while out of range, no los etc and having skills go on cooldown is an inbuilt skill check designed to punish unskilled players who just want to spam buttons. One of my fav features in gw2.

It goes beyond spamming, it is downright rediculous when you are strafing and a bush or some peice of ruins obstructs your view when you can clearly see over the top of it.

It is pretty simple, it needs to not put skills on cool down if one of those 3 things occur with skill execution.

Zamiel.2130:

I can’t believe the QQ about berserkers not needing LOS actually got them changed, considering one or two hits kills them

Well to be honest… I was amazed by how many people would let 2 or 3 phantasms beat on them over and over again… and I can believe that a substantial amount of them would be the type to whine and kitten about something being so terribly OP because they don’t have the attention span to figure out what the hell is happening.

As a compromise they could make it so on a failed use, the skill only gets a fraction of its cool down, say 25%. Though I would prefer that a failed skill just gets a one or two second cool down before you can try again.

I would really really really love it if other professions also get a random ~15% of their AE / Defensive / Utility abilities affected by Block/Invul/Dodge next patch, to you know, have some parity.

See how other people think about this patch, with them constantly commenting how much of a L2P issue this is, I guess they’d have no problem adapting, right?

LOL you know other classes need to deal with these issues.

Xom.9264:

LOL you know other classes need to deal with these issues.

No they don’t, that is exactly the point. Other classes’ AE / utility / defensive skills work even if the target is blocking / dodging, since well, they’re not attacks.
Our utility/AE skills are now counted as single target attacks, making it possible to block an AE ability outright (the ability is never placed nor processed).

And this is not how it works for other classes.

Xom.9264:

LOL you know other classes need to deal with these issues.

LOL it is amusing that you feel need to comment on a thread in MESMER forum when you are so clueless about the class play.
Let me educate you. On my thief I use a ability called infiltrator strike(Sword 1) this ports me ahead to my target and does a bit of dmg and roots person. If person is invul I am blind etc I still port forward but the dmg is not applied and so is my return portal I can use. So imagine if a blind/invul caused all 3 of these abilities of it to fail. That is what is happening with the mesmers.

Im all for a spam check but the UI shld be tweaked. The thin red line under each skill icon is pretty weak. Simple solution is to make the skill icon change a shade when youre out of range. LOS mechanic on the other hand is fine (ie no CD reset) but the bugs shld be fixed.

Volatility.6729:

Im all for a spam check but the UI shld be tweaked. The thin red line under each skill icon is pretty weak. Simple solution is to make the skill icon change a shade when youre out of range. LOS mechanic on the other hand is fine (ie no CD reset) but the bugs shld be fixed.

This is fine if your a button clicker and stare at your hot bar all the time.

I am a key binder and I never look at my hot bar. But again, this goes beyond clicking when parts of the environment can obstruct your view for no reason because thier x and y axis is all messed up on the engine.

Don’t even get me started on fighting on ramps…..my favorite is when you can hit mobs with your auto attack skill, but get obstructed on Illusion/Clone summoning…..

alanis.6094:

If your target is out of range, don’t cast an ability.

If you are blinded, don’t cast an ability with a cooldown.

If you don’t have LoS on a target, don’t cast an ability.

Totally agree with this, I really like how you actually have to think when to cast phantasms now. Before you could just cast them with your eyes closed. Now it actually requires some skill.

@Nilvio

Nilvio.7941:

alanis.6094:

If your target is out of range, don’t cast an ability.

If you are blinded, don’t cast an ability with a cooldown.

If you don’t have LoS on a target, don’t cast an ability.

Totally agree with this, I really like how you actually have to think when to cast phantasms now. Before you could just cast them with your eyes closed. Now it actually requires some skill.

@Nilvio

I’m also against removing the cooldown on failed skills, but phantasms are more than “an attack”.

They really need to find other ways to make the utility aspect currently shackled to phantasms available regardless of block, dodge, or blind, because as it is now, obstruction, block, dodge, or blind negates THREE separate and important abilities tied to the phantasm, not just the attack.

Raksha.8049:

Volatility.6729:

Im all for a spam check but the UI shld be tweaked. The thin red line under each skill icon is pretty weak. Simple solution is to make the skill icon change a shade when youre out of range. LOS mechanic on the other hand is fine (ie no CD reset) but the bugs shld be fixed.

This is fine if your a button clicker and stare at your hot bar all the time.

I am a key binder and I never look at my hot bar. But again, this goes beyond clicking when parts of the environment can obstruct your view for no reason because thier x and y axis is all messed up on the engine.

Don’t even get me started on fighting on ramps…..my favorite is when you can hit mobs with your auto attack skill, but get obstructed on Illusion/Clone summoning…..

LOL? Looking at your hotbar for CD timers / range indicators has nothing to do with being a clicker. I have enough of a IRL field of vision to see everything that goes on my screen. Unless you’re a MIT black jack card counter and can remember 15+ CD timers in your head you must be playing the game incredibly inefficiently, especially when range is concerned, by overcompensating for “feel”, so please stop trolling.

alanis.6094:

If your target is out of range, don’t cast an ability.

If you are blinded, don’t cast an ability with a cooldown.

If you don’t have LoS on a target, don’t cast an ability.

A hundred times this. Welcome to mortality Mesmers, you now know what it feels to play by the rules.

RhysSebastian.7651:

A hundred times this. Welcome to mortality Mesmers, you now know what it feels to play by the rules.

Easy for an unhittable Rogue to say, I suppose.
I wonder how you’d feel when your defensive ability is being blocked.

Carighan.6758:

RhysSebastian.7651:

A hundred times this. Welcome to mortality Mesmers, you now know what it feels to play by the rules.

Easy for an unhittable Rogue to say, I suppose.
I wonder how you’d feel when your defensive ability is being blocked.

Wrong again, Im a necromancer. I understand your guys pain, and yes they should fix the responsiveness of the issues associated with ranged combat. However, if you friendly mesmers look from the other side of the pool. It is sort of nice to see that they are working on bringing you guys to the level of Elementalist, Necromancer, Engineer, and Ranger.

Volatility.6729:

Raksha.8049:

Volatility.6729:

Im all for a spam check but the UI shld be tweaked. The thin red line under each skill icon is pretty weak. Simple solution is to make the skill icon change a shade when youre out of range. LOS mechanic on the other hand is fine (ie no CD reset) but the bugs shld be fixed.

This is fine if your a button clicker and stare at your hot bar all the time.

I am a key binder and I never look at my hot bar. But again, this goes beyond clicking when parts of the environment can obstruct your view for no reason because thier x and y axis is all messed up on the engine.

Don’t even get me started on fighting on ramps…..my favorite is when you can hit mobs with your auto attack skill, but get obstructed on Illusion/Clone summoning…..

LOL? Looking at your hotbar for CD timers / range indicators has nothing to do with being a clicker. I have enough of a IRL field of vision to see everything that goes on my screen. Unless you’re a MIT black jack card counter and can remember 15+ CD timers in your head you must be playing the game incredibly inefficiently, especially when range is concerned, by overcompensating for “feel”, so please stop trolling.

A certain degree of perception of time goes along way,, couple that with casting your skills 5000+ times and I would be LOLing at you for still having the need to look at your hot bar to know where your reuse counters are, just saying.

Besides that, nothing you are talking about is on topic with the thread, so please, refrain from trolling.

At the very least, if they aren’t going to fix the LoS, they should give (all classes) the ability to check LoS to account for the buggy behaviour. The game knows if the attack will be obstructed or not, perhaps if there could be some indication to the player when this is before firing off your ability… perhaps your selected target could turn a shade of red when it is obstructed… although depending on how bad the LoS is, that could be a bit embarrassing for the coders when the targeted enemy constantly tells you it is obstructed then not, on seemingly open ground.

AoE skills like Chaos Storm will simply not trigger if there’s no LoS. No cooldown at all, you just get that little red message on screen.
Phantasms should be the same, but then they have to fix all the LoS bugs so we can actually cast them.

When that’s done, I think blocks/blinds/dodges/invulnerability shouldn’t prevent the summon but should negate the initial phantasm attack. Or, if it prevents the summon, then don’t use the full cooldown.