Guild Wars 2

Let me just preempt this thread by saying that I main Mesmer in sPvP, so my goal with this thread is not cry “waaah, I died to a chronomancer, nerf pls”, I’m making this suggestion because I think that it could be a good way to both balance out chronomancer without destroying the great flow that the class has now, and also clean up the makeshift looking UI.

So, at the moment, Chronomancer has to give up very little in comparison to base mesmer. It feels like a lot of the elite specs have this issue right now, but the current state of the UI for chronomancer really seems to highlight this to me. Right now Chronomancer can more or less do anything that base mesmer can do, but slightly more effectively or with additional options. I think that one of the best ways to make the chronomancer feel more distinct from base mesmer would be to simply replace a shatter with continuum split.

as for which shatter:

-Mind Wrack should remain untouched as it is arguably the “basic” shatter.

-Cry of Frustration is probably the least useful shatter since the confusion nerf, so i wouldn’t mind it being removed, but I’m not sure that this really changes the dynamic of the class enough

-Diversion should also stay, as it is one of the core interrupts for any lockdown build, and removing it from base mesmer would destroy pretty much any possible “lockdown chronomancer” builds

-Distortion is a great defensive cooldown, and I think that switching this out for continuum split would actually make chronomancer feel like a very distinctive class compared to the base class. On the other hand, if chronomancer is meant to be a more defensive elite spec, then it doesn’t make sense to remove a defensive cooldown from the class

Basically, this all depends on what sort of vision the devs have for the chronomancer. I’m not sure exactly which shatter i would switch out, but I think that instead of nerfing traits or utility skills, the chronomancer should simply lose a base profession skill.

Thoughts?

Give us 4 empty F keys that we can assign whichever shatters we want to each, then I’d be ok with this.

Also, re-balance the cooldowns on the shatters (wtf CoF???).

Let me point out the flaw in your whole argument. It’s right at the start so no one will miss it.

• Flaw: The assumption/assertion that Chronomancer should have to “give something up” as compared to base Mesmer.

Forgetting, of course, that the Chrono line is 1 of 6 trait lines that upon taking, means giving up one of the other 5 lines.

This is not insignificant.

There’s no precedent for dropping Distortion, or any other shatter for that matter.

Let’s do this for all the elites:

Warriors should have to give up their main hand weapon to use Berserker.
Necros can pick one of the new reapershroud skills in their death shroud.
Engineers can’t use toolkit skills as Scrappers.
Elementalists can’t use fire as Tempests.
Guardians can only have 2 virtues as Dragonhunters.
Thieves can only steal gunk as Daredevils.
Revenants can’t weapon swap as Heralds.
Rangers get 2 pets as Druids.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Let me point out the flaw in your whole argument. It’s right at the start so no one will miss it.

• Flaw: The assumption/assertion that Chronomancer should have to “give something up” as compared to base Mesmer.

Forgetting, of course, that the Chrono line is 1 of 6 trait lines that upon taking, means giving up one of the other 5 lines.

This is not insignificant.

There’s no precedent for dropping Distortion, or any other shatter for that matter.

When Anet introduced specializations, I really thought that they would change their mechanics in a meaningful way, meaning there would be some drawbacks to getting new mechanics. For example, the Dragonhunter looses his old virtues to get the new ones.

When it was said that mesmers would get a new shatter, I was certain it would replace Distorsion. And as a mesmer main, I liked the idea. Frankly, the chronomancer is amazing, shield is amazing, wells are slightly OP, but really fun. It’s just that Continuum Split is so strong, that I fear that heavy nerfs will be made to all those things that give flavor to the traitline (especially alacrity), if Anet intends to keep it as it is.

I would like to see Anet bringing balance to the chronomancien by replacing Distorsion instead of other nerfs. Because frankly, this traitline is so strong there is no reason not to take it in ANY build, and that’s not healthy.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Let me point out the flaw in your whole argument. It’s right at the start so no one will miss it.

• Flaw: The assumption/assertion that Chronomancer should have to “give something up” as compared to base Mesmer.

Forgetting, of course, that the Chrono line is 1 of 6 trait lines that upon taking, means giving up one of the other 5 lines.

This is not insignificant.

There’s no precedent for dropping Distortion, or any other shatter for that matter.

You might not agree with me, but the assertion that chrono should have to give up something compared to the base class is not a “flaw” in my argument, it is simply an assertion that you disagree with.

If you disagree with it tell me why, instead of dismissing it out of hand as a “flaw”.

As for the “no precedent”, look at reaper, they lose access to all of their old death shroud skills and gain a new set. Look at dragonhunter, they gain an entire new set of virtues. There is absolutely precedent for a class losing access to previous class mechanics to gain new ones.

Sorel.4870:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Let me point out the flaw in your whole argument. It’s right at the start so no one will miss it.

• Flaw: The assumption/assertion that Chronomancer should have to “give something up” as compared to base Mesmer.

Forgetting, of course, that the Chrono line is 1 of 6 trait lines that upon taking, means giving up one of the other 5 lines.

This is not insignificant.

There’s no precedent for dropping Distortion, or any other shatter for that matter.

When Anet introduced specializations, I really thought that they would change their mechanics in a meaningful way, meaning there would be some drawbacks to getting new mechanics. For example, the Dragonhunter looses his old virtues to get the new ones.

When it was said that mesmers would get a new shatter, I was certain it would replace Distorsion. And as a mesmer main, I liked the idea. Frankly, the chronomancer is amazing, shield is amazing, wells are slightly OP, but really fun. It’s just that Continuum Split is so strong, that I fear that heavy nerfs will be made to all those things that give flavor to the traitline (especially alacrity), if Anet intends to keep it as it is.

I would like to see Anet bringing balance to the chronomancien by replacing Distorsion instead of other nerfs. Because frankly, this traitline is so strong there is no reason not to take it in ANY build, and that’s not healthy.

Anet was pretty open and honest about their understanding that giving Mesmer an offhand shield only was akin to robery (especialy given its a non damaging Phant -_-u). Where’as other classes came through with many multiple new skills, Mesmer did not. So part of their effort to make up for that we got a new shatter, with an interesting and unique new functionality.

Dropping it in place of distortion is culling the active number of new skills we get, and it’s a bad one at that. Especially if you’re not going to run shield for those channeled blocks to mitigate damage.

Distortion is an integral part of the mesmer design regardless of new chronomancer features. Is this not obvious to everybody? One extra shatter, continuium split at that, is not impacting things in the way you think it does that much.

DaShi.1368:

Let’s do this for all the elites:

Warriors should have to give up their main hand weapon to use Berserker.
Necros can pick one of the new reapershroud skills in their death shroud.
Engineers can’t use toolkit skills as Scrappers.
Elementalists can’t use fire as Tempests.
Guardians can only have 2 virtues as Dragonhunters.
Thieves can only steal gunk as Daredevils.
Revenants can’t weapon swap as Heralds.
Rangers get 2 pets as Druids.

Some of these make very little sense in my opinion, as they don’t actually parallel the new things that the elite specializations receive. For example:

Warrior – What if instead of taking away the mainhand (what?) warriors could simply use ONLY primal burst skills, and lost the ability to use burst skills outside of berserk form. i’m not advocating that, but it provides a more direct parallel where what they gain is some different form of what they gave up.

Necro – Reaper is actually (IMO) fantastically balanced in this way, and a great example of what i mean. When you have the reaper traitline slotted, you lose access to your old death shroud skills in favor of a more reaper themed set of skills. Nobody complains about losing the old death shroud because the reaper death shroud skills are very different, and just as good. However, it provides a reason to stick with base necro, because the standard death shroud skills are already quite strong (life blast anybody?).

Engi – i haven’t really played around with scrapper, so I’m not sure how to comment on this

Elementalist – Elementalists are another one where they already have to give something up, when you overload an attunement, that attunement’s recharge is increased. This is a great balance mechanism that changes the way the class plays. Standard ele relies a lot on swapping attunements constantly while tempest benefits from staying in one for a period of time.

Guardian – Have you even played dragonhunter? because they already have their virtues replaced by a new set. In other words, they lose access to their old virtues.

Thief – Not really a big thief player, so I can’t really comment here, but only stealing gunk is both arbitrary and totally unwarranted.

Revenant – This is another one that gains something and basically doesn’t give much up. I haven’t played enough of the class to speak to its balance, but I agree that Herald could maybe use a second look.

Ranger – perhaps druids would lose access to the special skill of their pets, making druid a more support focused class that relies less on pets.

No.

While every other class attained more than 2 weapons skills along with better or new functionality to their class mechanic (except for warrior who gets berserk and a new skill per main hand) Mes gained this one persistent cool skill… And you want to take away another shatter in it’s place?

(Excluding the mandatory line and equal number of gained utilites/heal/elite)

Polismassa.6740:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Let me point out the flaw in your whole argument. It’s right at the start so no one will miss it.

• Flaw: The assumption/assertion that Chronomancer should have to “give something up” as compared to base Mesmer.

Forgetting, of course, that the Chrono line is 1 of 6 trait lines that upon taking, means giving up one of the other 5 lines.

This is not insignificant.

There’s no precedent for dropping Distortion, or any other shatter for that matter.

You might not agree with me, but the assertion that chrono should have to give up something compared to the base class is not a “flaw” in my argument, it is simply an assertion that you disagree with.

If you disagree with it tell me why, instead of dismissing it out of hand as a “flaw”.

The claim that there’s a problem is yours. Ergo the burden of proof is on you.

The only reason you gave for making this change was “to make Chronomancer and Mesmer feel more distinct (from one another)”. This implies that Chronomancer does not feel more distinct (or distinct enough) from Mesmer. Only Chrono feels incredibly distinct from Mesmer without even considering your change -_-u.

Why exactly do you feel the Mesmer “should” give up something for Continuum Shift when most elite specs don’t? Let’s take a look.

.

Berserker: Berserk mode changes burst skills, but outside of Berserk mode you retain your normal burst skills.

Dragonhunter: Virtues are different, but the passives are the same and the actives mostly build on existing functionality. Only real drawback is they have cast times.

Herald: An always available Facet, no drawback.

Druid: Celestial Avatar replaces your weapon skills but, again, while not active you suffer no drawbacks.

Daredevil: extra dodge and dodge effects. No drawback.

Scrapper: better ressing/stomping. No drawback.

Tempest: using Overloads increases attunement CD, but you can just as easily ignore them and suffer no drawbacks.

Reaper: Completely changes your Death Shroud. You can consider this a drawback maybe, but given the melee is the Reaper’s thing I think every Reaper would prefer Reaper Shroud over Death Shroud.

.

Aside from Dragonhunter and Reaper no Elite spec takes away from the core profession, and even with DH and Reaper there’s a much stronger argument for them being upgrades rather than drawbacks (apart from DH’s cast time on Virtues, which IMO should be removed).

Ross Biddle.2367:

The claim that there’s a problem is yours. Ergo the burden of proof is on you.

I agree that the burden of proof for any claim is on me, however disagreeing with an assertion that I make does not make that assertion a “flaw” in my argument. A flaw would be if I had some logical inconsistency that made it illogical, not simply that you disagree with it.

Ross Biddle.2367:

The only reason you gave for making this change was “to make Chronomancer and Mesmer feel more distinct (from one another)”. This implies that Chronomancer does not feel more distinct (or distinct enough) from Mesmer. Only Chrono feels incredibly distinct from Mesmer without even considering your change -_-u.

Chronomancer feels very distinct from mesmer in that it feels distinctly Stronger (In my opinion). I would like to see the chronomancer spec fall closer in line with the base mesmer spec so that there continues to be a reason to run both specs, instead of everyone just switching to chronomancer.

Do you believe that elite specializations should all be much stronger than their base counterparts? I was under the impression that they were supposed to be more of a horizontal change that allowed each class to do some things better while doing other things worse. If the elite specialization does not give anything up, then it becomes a direct upgrade to the base class, and the base class becomes more or less obsolete, this can only be bad for build diversity, and the game as a whole.

Now, I don’t intend to beg the question here. I don’t know for absolute certain that chrono is actually much stronger than base mesmer, and maybe it isn’t. I simply proposed one possible change that I feel could make the specialization more of a horizontal change, as opposed to a vertical one.

Embolism.8106:

Why exactly do you feel the Mesmer “should” give up something for Continuum Shift when most elite specs don’t? Let’s take a look.

.

Berserker: Berserk mode changes burst skills, but outside of Berserk mode you retain your normal burst skills.

Dragonhunter: Virtues are different, but the passives are the same and the actives mostly build on existing functionality. Only real drawback is they have cast times.

Revenant: An always available Facet, no drawback.

Druid: Celestial Avatar replaces your weapon skills but, again, while not active you suffer no drawbacks.

Daredevil: extra dodge and dodge effects. No drawback.

Scrapper: better ressing/stomping. No drawback.

Tempest: using Overloads increases attunement CD, but you can just as easily ignore them and suffer no drawbacks.

Reaper: Completely changes your Death Shroud. You can consider this a drawback maybe, but given the melee is the Reaper’s thing I think every Reaper would prefer Reaper Shroud over Death Shroud.

.

Aside from Dragonhunter and Reaper no Elite spec takes away from the core profession, and even with DH and Reaper there’s a much stronger argument for them being upgrades rather than drawbacks (apart from DH’s cast time on Virtues, which IMO should be removed).

The reason I feel that mesmers should give something up to take continuum shift is because I thought that chronomancer felt extremely strong during the beta. In addition, The current placement for the continuum shift icon on the skill bar feels very out of place.

This is purely a suggestion, and maybe you disagree, but I don’t think that there’s a lack of precedent here. As mentioned, both reaper and dragonhunter lose previous profession skills to use the new ones. This makes the elite specializations more of a horizontal shift in the way the class plays, where they become better at certain things and worse at others (reaper is much stronger in close quarters, but becomes weaker at range).

Polismassa.6740:

Now, I don’t intend to beg the question here. I don’t know for absolute certain that chrono is actually much stronger than base mesmer, and maybe it isn’t. I simply proposed one possible change that I feel could make the specialization more of a horizontal change, as opposed to a vertical one.

All professions give up 1 line in place of their current. That is as side grade.

Majority of these builds have unique effects players are not used to, but default mesmer can kill chrono as well as any of the other elite specs.

Polismassa.6740:

Embolism.8106:

Why exactly do you feel the Mesmer “should” give up something for Continuum Shift when most elite specs don’t? Let’s take a look.

.

Berserker: Berserk mode changes burst skills, but outside of Berserk mode you retain your normal burst skills.

Dragonhunter: Virtues are different, but the passives are the same and the actives mostly build on existing functionality. Only real drawback is they have cast times.

Revenant: An always available Facet, no drawback.

Druid: Celestial Avatar replaces your weapon skills but, again, while not active you suffer no drawbacks.

Daredevil: extra dodge and dodge effects. No drawback.

Scrapper: better ressing/stomping. No drawback.

Tempest: using Overloads increases attunement CD, but you can just as easily ignore them and suffer no drawbacks.

Reaper: Completely changes your Death Shroud. You can consider this a drawback maybe, but given the melee is the Reaper’s thing I think every Reaper would prefer Reaper Shroud over Death Shroud.

.

Aside from Dragonhunter and Reaper no Elite spec takes away from the core profession, and even with DH and Reaper there’s a much stronger argument for them being upgrades rather than drawbacks (apart from DH’s cast time on Virtues, which IMO should be removed).

The reason I feel that mesmers should give something up to take continuum shift is because I thought that chronomancer felt extremely strong during the beta. In addition, The current placement for the continuum shift icon on the skill bar feels very out of place.

This is purely a suggestion, and maybe you disagree, but I don’t think that there’s a lack of precedent here. As mentioned, both reaper and dragonhunter lose previous profession skills to use the new ones. This makes the elite specializations more of a horizontal shift in the way the class plays, where they become better at certain things and worse at others (reaper is much stronger in close quarters, but becomes weaker at range).

Reaper and DH gain different (upgraded) versions of existing skills. Continuum Shift is not a different version of an existing Shatter skill. They’re apples and oranges.

Now, if you’re suggesting reworking Continuum Shift’s functionality into Distortion (on Distortion’s CD of course), I might be inclined to agree.

Embolism.8106:

Reaper and DH gain different (upgraded) versions of existing skills. Continuum Shift is not a different version of an existing Shatter skill. They’re apples and oranges.

Now, if you’re suggesting reworking Continuum Shift’s functionality into Distortion (on Distortion’s CD of course), I might be inclined to agree.

That sounds like a fine suggestion. I’m not trying to say that things wouldn’t need tweaking, I simply think that it would be an interesting balance method of balance to swap out a shatter. I would agree however that there needs to be some trait inheritance so that any trait that affects whatever shatter is replaced, would affect continuum shift so as to prevent completely breaking builds.

Also, while 4 of the 5 reaper shroud skills are direct modifications of base death shroud skills, the #5 skill (Executioner’s Scythe) is completely unrelated to the base #5 skill (Tainted Shackles). Therefore it’s not entirely true that no class receives a complete skill replacement.

Nearly every Elite Specialization gets a new F* utility, without sacrificing the old, so why should ours be merged into/replace an existing one? On the subject of the UI, yes, that can do with a bit of a makeover perhaps, but I don’t mind how it looks as-is. There’s bigger issues with how our numerous in-game buffs will go in a conga line all the way to the right side of the screen, disappearing under the mini-map—if you got enough of them—when talking about the aesthetics of the UI that is. That affects every player, regardless of their profession (unless you run the game at 4K, I guess, never tried that).

The balance to our Continuum Shift, is its destructibility, you can counter it by targeting the Continuum Rift placed in the world. Players are not used to spotting it, nor to take it out, yet. This will come with time. Our counter to this again, is to make use of clever placement, lockdown and so on forth (all with their own counters). We got a rather short period of time to make use of it however, so we can’t exactly drop it around a corner, run for a few seconds and then do our skills. By its very design, it’ll often be placed in sight for the enemy to focus. If they don’t deal with it, that’s not our fault, is it?

I don’t see any reason as to why we need to sacrifice more than one of our Trait lines. Taking Chronomancer over our other preexisting lines, comes with certain sacrifices. Let’s not pretend it doesn’t. While our new line gives something for everyone, it also is taking the place of something else. And with us being a profession incredibly reliant on our Traits, more so than most other professions, it’s not without sacrifice that you pick up Chronomancer.

I think people tend to forget that Mesmer, is a relatively difficult profession to get into. A difficult profession to master. Most players acknowledge this. It’s a profession that require some skill to play. In turn, this means that the average Mesmer you will be facing, is inherently a relatively skilled player, maybe more so than your average player of another profession. When every Mesmer you face, is inherently relatively skilled, this can create a skewed perception of the professions “power” to someone playing a different profession. Thus, we face the “QQ”, complaints and nerf requests at a steady rate.

If Anet really makes us mesmers give up a shatter just because we use the Chrono line… I might have to quit the game LOL. Hopefully Anet stops catering to whiners like this.

XeonJab.7529:

If Anet really makes us mesmers give up a shatter just because we use the Chrono line… I might have to quit the game LOL. Hopefully Anet stops catering to whiners like this.

“Here, have a shield. Oh, but we’re taking Distortion. Thxbye.” ~Anet.

-_-u

Well I’d never take Chrono if we lost either F3 or F4.

Continuum Split is nice but not as necessary as the other shatters.

Remember the old times when Anet said Chrono gets OH shield but also something amazing to compensate while other elite classes get new shiny 2h weapon???
So if we treat this statement as a rule of thumb.

Lets rewind the clock … to look at the class main mechanics of each profession (associated with F keys) as they were revealed, shall we?

Chronomancer (got OH)- retain all shatters, get a new shatter (no trade-off, got bonus stuff)

Dragonhunter (got 2H)- virtues replaced by new version (forced trade-off)

Reaper (got 2H)- death shroud replaced by reaper shroud (forced trade-off)

Herald (got OH)- Glint to be replaced one of 2 legends (trade-off, but optional, u might choose not to equip Glint as a Herald)

Tempest (got OH)- retain all attunements, overloads added (no trade-off, got bonus stuff)

Berserker (got OH)- berserker mode added on top of normal adrenaline mechanic (no trade-off)

Daredevil (got 2H)- no change to Steal mechanic (no trade-off)

Scrapper (got 2H)- no change to Toolbelt mechanic (no trade-off)

Druid (got 2H)- no change to Pet commands, added Celestial Avatar form (no trade-off, got bonus stuff)

So the rule of thumb breaks down when we get to the last 3 elite specs (thief, engy, and ranger), especially Druid gets 2H and bonus stuff for their main mechanic.
Does this mean the druid is completely OP and top of the food chain now? Not really.
Quantity wise, it looks unfair but the fact is, balance is more about quality.

Both Reaper and Dragonhunter got a forced trade-off but ended up totally opposite atm. Reaper is one of the best (if not the best) designed elite, while Dragonhunter still has a long way to go and needs lots of work to “please the crowd”.

tl;dr Number of new skills/toys doesn’t dictate how better a particular elite spec is compared to others. It’s their quality and synergy with the base class itself that plays a more decisive role.

As for why Chronomancer feels much stronger than baseline Mesmer?
Sorry my friend, this is just an illusion. Why?

Chronomancer delivers us quite a bag of new unique tricks that our enemies haven’t adapted to yet (Continuum Shift surely one of them). Same can be said to other elite specs I guess but mesmers have been all about misdirection and frankly arguably the least noob-friendly class to fight against.

After all, people have learned to fight as/against mesmers for 3 years. Chronomancers have just been … like a few months???

I’d prefer to just get a UI rearrangement when taking Chronomancer. The 3 icons for illusions should just condense when choosing Chronomancer and F5 can then be shoved into its rightful place.

keenlam.4753:

Remember the old times when Anet said Chrono gets OH shield but also something amazing to compensate while other elite classes get new shiny 2h weapon???
So if we treat this statement as a rule of thumb.

Lets rewind the clock … to look at the class main mechanics of each profession (associated with F keys) as they were revealed, shall we?

Chronomancer (got OH)- retain all shatters, get a new shatter (no trade-off, got bonus stuff)

Dragonhunter (got 2H)- virtues replaced by new version (forced trade-off)

Reaper (got 2H)- death shroud replaced by reaper shroud (forced trade-off)

Herald (got OH)- Glint to be replaced one of 2 legends (trade-off, but optional, u might choose not to equip Glint as a Herald)

Tempest (got OH)- retain all attunements, overloads added (no trade-off, got bonus stuff)

Berserker (got OH)- berserker mode added on top of normal adrenaline mechanic (no trade-off)

Daredevil (got 2H)- no change to Steal mechanic (no trade-off)

Scrapper (got 2H)- no change to Toolbelt mechanic (no trade-off)

Druid (got 2H)- no change to Pet commands, added Celestial Avatar form (no trade-off, got bonus stuff)

So the rule of thumb breaks down when we get to the last 3 elite specs (thief, engy, and ranger), especially Druid gets 2H and bonus stuff for their main mechanic.
Does this mean the druid is completely OP and top of the food chain now? Not really.
Quantity wise, it looks unfair but the fact is, balance is more about quality.

Both Reaper and Dragonhunter got a forced trade-off but ended up totally opposite atm. Reaper is one of the best (if not the best) designed elite, while Dragonhunter still has a long way to go and needs lots of work to “please the crowd”.

---

tl;dr Number of new skills/toys doesn’t dictate how better a particular elite spec is compared to others. It’s their quality and synergy with the base class itself that plays a more decisive role.

This makes sense, and I can see the pattern here. To be clear, how do you think continuum shift stacked up against most of the new stuff that each elite spec got?

Personally right now, when I play my mesmer (in sPvP) I feel like i’m just teleporting around the map winning fights everywhere. This is especially apparent when you matched with a lot of new players because it feels like mesmer is probably the only class capable of pretty much carrying a team to victory if you are good enough. Portal allows you to basically be in two places at once, and even with base mesmer, there’s no class that you can’t beat in a 1v1. the tradeoff for that is that mesmer is not really capable of holding a point, even in a 1v1, we often lose the point in exchange for eventually killing the enemy.

To me it feels like chronomancer does everything that base mesmer does, we retain all of our mobility, have just as much (if not more) burst, and then chrono adds the ability to be incredibly strong on points as well with powerful wells, and a very potent block skill which (in contrast to an invuln like distortion) still allows you to hold cap on a point.

First of all, Continuum Shift is very COMPLEX skill/mechanic. I remember, not sure if it was Ross Biddle or anyone else, created a whole thread dedicated to explain all the stuff about it for us mesmers. Imagine an average player who doesn’t even main mesmers and not willing to spend much time learning about it. So here lies the problem I think. Other new stuff other elite specs got are by far more straightforward.

As for your 2nd point, a lot of us have taken the blame on Alacrity thus far. I keep my neutral stance atm since everything is still changing like crazy… cough Gravity Well… cough.

keenlam.4753:

First of all, Continuum Shift is very COMPLEX skill/mechanic. I remember, not sure if it was Ross Biddle or anyone else, created a whole thread dedicated to explain all the stuff about it for us mesmers. Imagine an average player who doesn’t even main mesmers and not willing to spend much time learning about it. So here lies the problem I think. Other new stuff other elite specs got are by far more straightforward.

As for your 2nd point, a lot of us have taken the blame on Alacrity thus far. I keep my neutral stance atm since everything is still changing like crazy… cough Gravity Well… cough.

Maybe you’re right, that the issue with chronomancer lies elsewhere.

However, I personally think that continuum shift’s complexity, while it might completely turn some players off of the class, will allow top players to do things that we as a community haven’t even considered yet. I think that continuum split could be one of the coolest, most versatile mechanics in the game, and I doubt we’ve even really scratched the surface of what it can really do. it’s mainly for this reason that I feel people are underestimating it compared to other shatters.

Agree 100%. Chronomancer should be a trade, not a straight up buff.

EvesDesire.2596:

Agree 100%. Chronomancer should be a trade, not a straight up buff.

Okay. So….what is Tempest trading?

keenlam.4753:

First of all, Continuum Shift is very COMPLEX skill/mechanic. I remember, not sure if it was Ross Biddle or anyone else, created a whole thread dedicated to explain all the stuff about it for us mesmers. Imagine an average player who doesn’t even main mesmers and not willing to spend much time learning about it. So here lies the problem I think. Other new stuff other elite specs got are by far more straightforward.

As for your 2nd point, a lot of us have taken the blame on Alacrity thus far. I keep my neutral stance atm since everything is still changing like crazy… cough Gravity Well… cough.

Wasn’t me. I’ve only been in BW3.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

EvesDesire.2596:

Agree 100%. Chronomancer should be a trade, not a straight up buff.

Okay. So….what is Tempest trading?

I would argue that the profession mechanic that tempests gain is less impactful than continuum shift, and has less synergy with the rest of their skills. In addition, Whenever a tempest uses one of the new overload skills, it increases the recharge on that attunement. Current meta elementalist builds all rely on swapping attunements nearly constantly to gain the benefits that it provides, but a tempest can’t do this quite as effectively if they make use of overloads.

Now obviously if you decide to spec tempest without even using the overloads, there’s no downside, but you also gain nothing extra, so it balances out.

Polismassa.6740:

I would argue that the profession mechanic that tempests gain is less impactful than continuum shift, and has less synergy with the rest of their skills. In addition, Whenever a tempest uses one of the new overload skills, it increases the recharge on that attunement. Current meta elementalist builds all rely on swapping attunements nearly constantly to gain the benefits that it provides, but a tempest can’t do this quite as effectively if they make use of overloads.

Now obviously if you decide to spec tempest without even using the overloads, there’s no downside, but you also gain nothing extra, so it balances out.

I would argue that the profession mechanic that chronomancers gain is only more impactful than overload until they buff it, and has less synergy with the rest of their traits. In addition, whenever a chronomancer uses Continuum Split, it shatters its current illusion set, which it could have used on another shatter. Current meta mesmer builds Current top mesmer builds all rely on getting illusions up to gain the benefits of their shatters, but a chronomancer can’t do this quite as effectively if they make use of Continuum Split.

Now obviously if you decide to spec chronomancer without even using continuum split, there’s no downside, but you gain nothing extra, so it balances out.

Not to mention in PvP/WvW, using Continuum Shift comes with a risk, the risk that your enemies will kill your rift and burst you to smithereens when you’re pulled back.

It is far, far too early to talk about balancing for Continuum Shift when the majority of players don’t even try to kill the rift.

Ross Biddle.2367:

keenlam.4753:

First of all, Continuum Shift is very COMPLEX skill/mechanic. I remember, not sure if it was Ross Biddle or anyone else, created a whole thread dedicated to explain all the stuff about it for us mesmers. Imagine an average player who doesn’t even main mesmers and not willing to spend much time learning about it. So here lies the problem I think. Other new stuff other elite specs got are by far more straightforward.

As for your 2nd point, a lot of us have taken the blame on Alacrity thus far. I keep my neutral stance atm since everything is still changing like crazy… cough Gravity Well… cough.

Wasn’t me. I’ve only been in BW3.

My bad. I looked it up again. It was Necrotize. Here’s the link to that thread. There might be some minor changes since it was from BWE1 I believe.