Guild Wars 2

Mesmer beating down golem too hard by using torment, lol.
Hope the balance team can come up some better reason behind their nerf hammer. But probably they won’t.
Now I completely lost respect and trust in them now.

+1 I loved the torment =-(

+1

Lyssa is punishing us.

I somewhat agree. They need to change condi damage back so that the stats work different in pvp. People are literally dying in seconds. I love the mantra changes and mantras still aren’t popular which is amazing to me and I prefer it that way. But yea for the most part I agree, let us enjoy condi because is been power only for 3 years

+1

Hopefully they reconsider this.

Confusing Combatants is nerfed, application for confusion on mesmers are back to what we had again.

Engineers, warriors can get 4-5 stacks in one attack or trait. LOL.

Lasted 10 hours. Yaaayyyy. Give me confounding combatants than. Pick one or the other. God forbid I can play condi without using a scepter

To be honest MtD did feel kind of op.
My problem with this though is, why did mesmers get nerfed? Engineers are much worse than MtD and they didn’t get a nerf?

Anet seems to a lot more harsh towards mesmers compared to any other class in my opinion.

Here’s what’s going to happen, condis are going to get a nerf because they’re pretty powerful after the patch…but they won’t rever the MtD nerf.

Good. The damage it provided was simply absurd. Anyone who fails to see this is wilfully ignorant.

I just want to know the rationale as to why MTD was the most pressing concern above all other builds. Can we see some numbers and some actual logic from the devs?

How the kitten did they not see conditions becoming overpowered. Their ignorance astounds me.

In the main forum, they admit that condition is a bit too strong now.
So expect incoming condie nerf but not compensation to maim.

Ok, one way I can see this change working is the Confusion change counteracting the loss in Torment stacks so it’s pretty much the same damage pre-patch. Can someone math this out?

Yeah honestly it was kinda needed. Been playin’ MtD most of the day and it was really strong. I would melt thieves in seconds with 1 scepter block+ a few clone shatters (all the while blinding him faster than he could spam 2 :P ) and even the most condi-cleanse heavy classes like guard and ele couldnt keep up (never saw a shoutbow warr tho, are they extinct now?).

After having played around with the nerfed MtD it’s not such a terrible nerf that its unplayable, its actually still an excellent small skirmish/dueling build. I still believe MtD will never be high end competitive material (especially with how rapidly its getting nerfed lol) but as a solo q build its much better than it ever was.

The biggest problem with playing this build? People attitudes. Every. Single. Person. I 1v1’d and beat raged hard. Even in good fights that weren’t 1 sided, people just hate getting beat by this build. Idk, maybe its more sneaky? You spend most of the time blocking and evading people while they mess themselves up, and the constant blinds were a huge point of contrition.

I even had a good 1v1 vs. a GS medi guard (standard hardcounter to mes imo, more so than thief in some cases) and after a long fight he runs out of CDs and goes down and immediately says “Wow MSEMER IS BROKEN, LOL SCRUBCLASS”…and then later on I beat him again after he chased me around during a teamfight (instead of assisting his mates) and he goes LOL HOW DO U HAVE AEGIS? I was like thats not even a new thing…its PU and scpeter 2…and he continues to flame mesmer and all the buffs it got…

and this was after the mtd nerf lol

I think other classes just hate mesmers, its the plain truth. If we are strong in any capacity its like an affront to them. I don’t understand it…

I think also it was honestly too strong. But on the other hand, I feel only 1 stack is too weak (haven’t tried yet). If only 1.5 was possible (or just change the whole torment so that it is half as strong, double all other sources of it, and put 3 stacks per shatter?).
There are just so few sources of torment in this game, if they don’t want it to disappear, we mesmers need to be able to apply some.

i dont have any problem with nerf condi but pls make other class nerf too

engi as for now way too strong
even condi guard with burning can 3k burning dps so why cant we with torment now

in pvp and wvw mtd will not be useable with 50% nerf as we lost all our burst

i have fought with this in team arena as i felt it was ok with 2 stacks as ppl dodge cleanse block

sure in hot join i reckt ppl who just run and pew pew

thieves i had more easy way with f3 but its not becuase of mtd rather ip

they made a mistake

i wish the community will rage and protest

Ofc mesmers got the nerf bat first..(
Just waiting for Anet to rip the class apart again….

Azure.8670:

I somewhat agree. They need to change condi damage back so that the stats work different in pvp. People are literally dying in seconds. I love the mantra changes and mantras still aren’t popular which is amazing to me and I prefer it that way. But yea for the most part I agree, let us enjoy condi because is been power only for 3 years

That’s a wholly different issue. Overall damage is too high now. Power or condition.

+1, this absolutely needs to be reverted. This is an absurd change made because of target golem balancing and has no basis in reality.

QQing.3089:

Lasted 10 hours. Yaaayyyy. Give me confounding combatants than. Pick one or the other. God forbid I can play condi without using a scepter

Yeah, I like to play without scepter and this effectively kills my playstyle.

Inhope they revert this and instead reduce the duration or something, but I haven’t got high hopes.

Going to try condition shatter again this evening but if it sucks now then I won’t be playing it again.

+1

I really feel like just camping with those illusions instead of shattering them. Unfortunately iDuelist bleed doesn’t work and iMage hit for 1 stack of burn instead of 4 stacks of confusion, soooo I’m out of idea for a viable condi spec except scepter 2 and 3. Best advice I can give is run condi on other profession, you get more for less effort.

Well, “Ineptitude” add confusion to “Blinding Dissipation”, but that confusion doesn’t stack with the confusion provided by “Illusionary Retribution” . It’s redundant. Why? I think that due to the same reason that they have done this, control de conditions from the shatters. It should be stacked because they are different traits, but they don’t. Ineptitude yes works with the rest of skills that block or blind, plus evades.

The question is, where is the limit? What are going to do with the rest of professions? Because they are always really fast for nerf us and later we’ll have another patch…

So it is ok for other professions to reach 8k burns but its not ok for mesmer to do 3k torment?(you can literally stack over 2k burns from just autoattacks on certain spec) OK BRO. now why should condition mesmer ever shatter now? For dat 3 second of confusion? NO there is now absolutely 0 reason to shatter your clones, 0. If some less capable player cant dodge shatter every now and then its his fault he is taking dmg from them.

Am I the only one who found Chaos/Illusion condi mesm slightly too strong?

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Am I the only one who found Chaos/Illusion condi mesm slightly too strong?

This is because you come from a land of objectivity and there is no place for that in these forums.

On the other hand, people are justifiably upset that mesmers got nerfed right off the bat when other classes are churning out insane stacks of burning on top of loads of cover condis.

CptCuddles.8912:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Am I the only one who found Chaos/Illusion condi mesm slightly too strong?

This is because you come from a land of objectivity and there is no place for that in these forums.

On the other hand, people are justifiably upset that mesmers got nerfed right off the bat when other classes are churning out insane stacks of burning on top of loads of cover condis.

If you ask me, Chaos/Illusion is really strong + changes to scepter. IE now is default So you can now trait a diff master trait, (mTD), ineptitude is also strong (confusion+ blind).

Conditions are strong on EVERY profession but only mesmer got nerfed, thats what people here are kittened about.And shatters are VERY easy to dodge, just cause less capable players cant cope with them shouldnt mean nerf. And now there is no point on using shatters on condi mesmer anymore as camping in PU stealth and letting clones swing around does much more dmg.

i really dont get anet in this. i got perma burned to death and mes gets nerfed? because…..? seriously ANet thats just messed up.

and mes is already back to the bottom of the bottom in spvp due to lack of condicleanse. but hey lets nerf them first right?

If all conditions are too strong then it’s a formula problem so all builds should get toned down with multiplier changes. MtD should then be checked under a new formula to see if it really should be nerfed.

Btw people are complaining at Mesmer stealth, burst, power, everything now. Bend over time soon memsers…

MtD was kinda OP. You could get so many torment stacks up so fast. however we ain’t the only class with issues like that.
-They took confusing combatants for a more power minded bonus we already had easy access to.
-Bleeds from the Duelist trait ain’t even working at all now (at least that’s better then overwriting the minor)

Simple thing I can’t understand is why they nerf 1 trait, not fixing the other and ignoring other classes having the same balance issues. It’s not like mesmers have been generally considered overpowered since the original confusion nerf.

@work atm, could someone please tell what has been nerfed for MtD?

Last night (~12 hours ago) i played a Rampagers, condi build with
Deceptive Evasion
MtD
And the trait line with blind on every shatter (and thus an extra confusion)

A single clone (or just 1 self-) shatter gave
-2 torment
-2 confusion
-1 blind.

When shatering 3 clones things get crazy really fast…

(Why Rampagers with power you might ask? Mostly to get ele’s below 90%. Don’t have much trouble with them then, my condi dmg till remains high)

lol, for real they already nerfed it? Hillarious knee-jerk stuff once again. I played nearly identical MtD Shatter vs. Power Shatter builds last night for a couple hours each, and I stuck with Power Shatter. I can’t fathom why they would nerf MtD, when Power is still just so much stronger and more reliable.

If you died to it, chances are you weren’t built to deal with Condies and you’ll die an even more horrible death vs. numerous other Condie specced Professions.

Just goes to show they really don’t have a clue. I had a fun time bashing up on newbs with it, no doubt. They all spec for maximum damage and no defense, and then cry to mommy Anet to fix Conditions. It’s just human nature, we hate the gradual inevitable death that we “can not” counter (because we didn’t build for it!) more then the spike damage that kills us before we can even react.

I was fighting an Ele with MtD shatter and it was embarrassing. I couldn’t get him past 90% health while he was eating me alive. Same for a Warrior/Guardian combo, literally couldn’t put a scratch on them, not even close! Hah, OPd for sure! lol!

Whatever. I guess we’ll be seeing a lot more knee jerk nerfs at the hands of loudly whining newbs.

One stack of Torment per Illusion on MtD not only kills the trait itself, but buries the entire concept of a Condition Shatter Mesmer.

Note I didn’t say Condition Mesmer! Single target you can still do great…too bad that pigeonholes you into 1v1 or roaming, and makes you pretty useless to a team. GG Anet! You’ll still be hard countered by the above professions, and yet have absolutely negligible AE damage output.

1 stack/torment instead of 2/illusion shattered.

the basic i predict was that all power class got buffed which make the power mesmer OP with huge burst and interupt
while condi mes shatter hardly changed with 2 stack as you hardly gonna make yourself invulnerable in melee to proc ip for more 2 torment stacks
thus condi shatter suffer the most
we lost burning dmg so even with IE you cant stack more than 2 if you lucky
we lost bleeding DD so hardly any bleeding cover as you need to shatter to do more dmg now
we lost now torment stack
we lost 4 stacks of confusion for 1 burning stack

in pvp no one will use pu (maybe for hot join testing) so now we cant compet with the zerk meta any more and punish them with torment and confusion

if power shatter and thief could be 50% win 1v1 and 80% in team fight against us
for few hours yesterday it was 80% 1v1 and 50% team fight and now will be 0%

so the meta for the mesmer will stay power shatter with 1-2 builds

while again other classes got better ways to proc huge condi burst

if they want to tune down the torment dmg they should have put it for 4 sec duration instead of 6. then it will be more burst short dmg as usualy ppl cleanse every 1-3 sec so to put in on 6 sec isnt realy matter unless they used all their cleanse and then even 5 stacks will kill them. but now i will hardly do any burst significant dmg so my team will want me to play zerker build ….

Condi mesmer is still op thanks to Ineptitude (and even more so with PU), so i don’t really see a problem with that.

Yeah because PU really adds to your damage output as a MtD Shatter Mesmer! wait a sec!! lol!

Ineptitude! Please! lol!

Messiah is right. This is all at the hands of people who don’t want to spec out of their “Pew Pew Power” bursting builds in order to deal with Condition builds. If you faced a class with half way decent condition cleansing last night, before this nerf, you’d know that this was far from OPd.

I fought Engies, Warriors, Ele’s, and Guardians whom all almost completely managed to ignore MtD damage. It was literally no difference to before this patch, because whether 8 stacks of Torment or 6, if they get cleansed easily and frequently, it doesn’t really matter. It will do near zero damage. Once I started facing competent teams with classes that could AE cleanse for their team, I quickly realized MtD was still just as flawed as always.

I went and played a tankier P-Shatter, and had a much better time. I was downing Thieves so fast it was making their heads spin, rarely had that with MtD minutes prior. Always longer, drawn-out fights, that occasionally resulted in victory. The only time MtD was shining was when playing against scrub teams where we wont by a landslide anyway, and I could proudly look at decent damage numbers popping up from Confusion and Torment.

I saw much more consistent AE mayhem from my P-Shatter build, and had plenty of defense to boot. The literally only reason to play MtD Shatter of Power, aside for having a thing for Conditions maybe, was being more tanky and thus having more time to react.

This is no longer the case! The AE Blind on shatter is huge defense alone, add traited staff and/or PU, 100% stun on CD, or even going with Insp. and you’re golden. High damage output, and tanky enough not to get mauled by every Thief that happens to spot you from 3 miles away.

RIP MtD.

If you don’t see how broken PU is, i fear nobody can help you.

Iavra.8510:

If you don’t see how broken PU is, i fear nobody can help you.

we are not talking about pu here. and we honestly dont care about u wanting to nerf pu. we are talking out a trait that got nerfed a little early!

Iavra.8510:

If you don’t see how broken PU is, i fear nobody can help you.

Bravo, let’s nerf every other traits because PU is broken. ANet logic right here.

Since when do you assume every mesmer running MtD run PU? I’m running Duel/inspi/illusion in tPvP and it works fine, should we nerf shattered condition? Oh wait we should nerf DE instead, PU can’t run without it.

Hey ANet, guardians with rune of the guardian can stack burning up to 5k per tick, nerf plz?

Why in earth and sky they feel the urge to nerf mesmers after less than one day

To be fair, all damage is over the top right now, both power and condition.

Menaka.5092:

Hey ANet, guardians with rune of the guardian can stack burning up to 5k per tick, nerf plz?

Why in earth and sky they feel the urge to nerf mesmers after less than one day

Because it was planned beforehand. Because they feel the need to address it in a livestream, the day before the population try it out. I doubt they have valid data on the other professions’ “broken mechanics” yet, and we’re probably looking at couple more days before they consolidate their thoughts.

I agree the condie damage is over the top. But that’s not just mesmer. It just needs to be tone down a bit overall

Torment dooms the condition mesmer! omg.. we’r all doomed! though i dont wanna use the words “learn to play” but something this community is direly in need of with this kind of a post. What an engineer has or other classes have is inconsequential to what we have or what the nerf is about.

If Anet hadn’t revealed any of the traits pre-patch and the patch dropped on us.. this kind of post wouldn’t have surfaced.

Work around the problem like the mesmer community has always done :-)

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Am I the only one who found Chaos/Illusion condi mesm slightly too strong?

I did, but I feel that way about all condi specs right now. Which is why I’d first do these things:

• Reduce gear stats slightly ~ moderately (players are too strong overall now).
• Reduce scaling for conditions slightly on a formula level (conditions are too strong now, overall).

Then, after that, evaluate classes.

Well, there goes what was left of my build. I am glad they released this trait system and the subsequent nerfs now, so that I can view a possible HoT purchase more objectively in terms of whether I still want to continue playing this game.

If we had to nerf OP things, all classes would need to be tone down in several ways.

This is a ridiculous nerf. Condi mesmer was already toned down with no Confusing Combatants and the new changes to poison and burning with our remaining only 1 stack, while other professions got several stacks to match the lost of condi damage.

The sad thing is mesmers are the only one touched, the rest of professions can still roll with their broken mechanics…

Now I tried the condie mesmer.
Have to say condie combined with PU even after nerf is still pretty strong in 1v1.