Guild Wars 2

Fixing page bug.

This might sound silly but I actually wish I could play the pre patch version of the game again, even giving up IP, and other little things we have now just to get those 2 stacks of torment back.

Let’s comprimise, increase the duration by 50% from 6 to 9 seconds. The burst damage stays reduced but the overal damage gets back to 75% of what it was. Or we can go back to 2 stacks for 4 seconds? instead of 6, more burst but only 66% of the original damage.

Niminion.1982:

Let’s comprimise, increase the duration by 50% from 6 to 9 seconds. The burst damage stays reduced but the overal damage gets back to 75% of what it was. Or we can go back to 2 stacks for 4 seconds? instead of 6, more burst but only 66% of the original damage.

2 stacks with reduced duration is better.

4 seconds minimum, 5 would be nice depending on what is more balanced.

9 seconds with 1 stack is pointless because it will be cleansed long before then. High intensity spikes with shorter duration are much better than long duration low damage ticks.

So yeah, overall I would happily take 2 stacks for 4-6 seconds (depending on the duration they deem is suitable).

2 stacks for 4 seconds should be a perfect balance.

1. Plenty of counter play from dodging/immune/blocking shatters and condi removal/immunities. not to mention most illusions getting scragged by random aoe fields during fights.

2. Maintains the bursty effectiveness of skillful play by the mesmer – either from baiting dodges/immunities, or smart play in team fights etc.

I had a third point, but I think I’m skating close to infractions in other places and don’t want to push it past the line lol

What’s the hang up Anet? Too scurred a skillful class will actually be playable competitively with the braindead nade/mortar spam and shoutbows?

SPOILER ALERT - incoming change of heart.

I spent the evening play testing Condition Shatter. Yes, I’ve found a new love with my signet support mesmer and I’ve enjoyed bursting noobs down to dirt with my power signet shatter… but I couldn’t help but give Maim another shot considering it’s what I’ve been my main for months now.

The build I’m running: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R3SZ;1VPV1187wW-71;9;4UTW;0258238056;4TwW6U;1hoHAhoHA2G

Pre-revamp, as pyro would say, confusion was an “idiot-tax” in Maim builds, but confusion has been excellently buffed in pvp in its current state. I now understand why they thought 1 stack of torment would be enough. The AOE confusion application even without Confusing Combatants is really strong. At this point, I would consider torment a tax, but not an “idiot tax” since it’s pretty difficult to avoid moving during battles.

I still need to get with my pvp guild to do organized 5 person play, but I have literally been rekting in ranked solo q… 1k confusion ticks have been very common due to the following:

• Evade/Block —> blind --> 7s 10sICD
• Chaos Armor —> 5s
• Chaos Armor —> Blind --> 7s
• Magic Bullet —> 3rd bounce Blind --> 7s
• Magic Bullet —> 4th bounce 8s.
• Counterspell —> 7s
• Confusing Images —> 6 stacks 12s.
• Signet of Midnight —> 7s
• Shatters all will cause at least kitten stack of confusion (2 for F2). Enemies in melee range will receive an additional 7s stack from blind.

This is all to say that you will have a constant stream of stacks of confusion on your enemy and similarly to how torment works, it’s a “pick your poison” type of way to receive damage. I don’t know guys. After testing things out, I’m not as upset about the end result of the maim nerf.

That being said, the nerf to maim is STILL representative of what I previously said. And I can’t say it enough, so I’ll requote myself:

And just for the record, I don’t see anything majorly bad about the Power Block nerf. I also didn’t see anything too bad with the Staff nerf except you over-nerfed it when 3% would have been more balanced (basic math proves this). The biggest issue is the maim nerf, because it simply reinforces the trend that has happened with Mesmers since the game came out.

Rinse wash repeat with the devs:

• Quick to “fix bugs” that lessen Mesmer effectiveness.
• Quick to fix bugs on other classes that boost their effectiveness.
• Slow to fix our bugs.
• Quick to nerf our traits/skills.
• Slow to nerf traits/skills of other classes. See Healing Signet & Turrets.

MailMail.6534:

SPOILER ALERT - incoming change of heart.

I spent the evening play testing Condition Shatter. Yes, I’ve found a new love with my signet support mesmer and I’ve enjoyed bursting noobs down to dirt with my power signet shatter… but I couldn’t help but give Maim another shot considering it’s what I’ve been my main for months now.

The build I’m running: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R3SZ;1VPV1187wW-71;9;4UTW;0258238056;4TwW6U;1hoHAhoHA2G

Pre-revamp, as pyro would say, confusion was an “idiot-tax” in Maim builds, but confusion has been excellently buffed in pvp in its current state. I now understand why they thought 1 stack of torment would be enough. The AOE confusion application even without Confusing Combatants is really strong. At this point, I would consider torment a tax, but not an “idiot tax” since it’s pretty difficult to avoid moving during battles.

I still need to get with my pvp guild to do organized 5 person play, but I have literally been rekting in ranked solo q… 1k confusion ticks have been very common due to the following:

• Evade/Block —> blind --> 7s 10sICD
• Chaos Armor —> 5s
• Chaos Armor —> Blind --> 7s
• Magic Bullet —> 3rd bounce Blind --> 7s
• Magic Bullet —> 4th bounce 8s.
• Counterspell —> 7s
• Confusing Images —> 6 stacks 12s.
• Signet of Midnight —> 7s
• Shatters all will cause at least kitten stack of confusion (2 for F2). Enemies in melee range will receive an additional 7s stack from blind.

This is all to say that you will have a constant stream of stacks of confusion on your enemy and similarly to how torment works, it’s a “pick your poison” type of way to receive damage. I don’t know guys. After testing things out, I’m not as upset about the end result of the maim nerf.

That being said, the nerf to maim is STILL representative of what I previously said. And I can’t say it enough, so I’ll requote myself:

And just for the record, I don’t see anything majorly bad about the Power Block nerf. I also didn’t see anything too bad with the Staff nerf except you over-nerfed it when 3% would have been more balanced (basic math proves this). The biggest issue is the maim nerf, because it simply reinforces the trend that has happened with Mesmers since the game came out.

Rinse wash repeat with the devs:

• Quick to “fix bugs” that lessen Mesmer effectiveness.
• Quick to fix bugs on other classes that boost their effectiveness.
• Slow to fix our bugs.
• Quick to nerf our traits/skills.
• Slow to nerf traits/skills of other classes. See Healing Signet & Turrets.

this is the exact build i tested after mtd nerfed
also was playing it in full team pvp 5v5
sry to say its weak
sure i could stack bunch of confusion but it hardly did significant dmg to my target

anets wanted us to shatter which means short burst with shatter skills and not DOT play style

hardly could pressure my enemy not to talk about ele, warrior , guard and thief

thus the torment must be back with 2 stack for shorter duration of 4 sec 33% nerf. as we need short burst dps and not longer dot which will be cleanse

i tested all classes condi builds. below comparison codni dot for 3 sec (in average fight)

d/f ele cuase 10-15 burninng stack with poison and 3 bleed (sigils) for 3 sec the dps is 4.5k-5k = 15k dmg
engi 10 burning stacks with poison, 3 bleed, 5 confusion kitten dps = 15k dmg
guardian 8-10 burning with 3 bleed and poison and retaliation 15k dmg
ranger poison master 10-15 poison stacks and 5-10 bleed 3.5k dps = 10k dmg
p/d thief 3 poison, 5 -8 bleed, 5 confusion, 2 torment 2.5-3k dps = 9k dmg
necro – 5-10 bleed, 2 poison, 2 fear, 1-2 torment 2.5-3k dps = 8k dmg
mesmer – 6- 10 torment, 6-10 confusion, 2-3 bleed, 1 poison, 1 burning 3k dps – 9k dmg

so you might says mesmer in bit low (and you can do lots more stacking, but i am talking in average and not burning all your skills) but ok.
mesmer dmg relay on shatter cd and clone creation while other classes relay only on skill cd
this is why mesmer needs more condi dmg output cause against average player who can dodge 3 clones running at him, or blind block etc i need to create another 3 clones (so i need to dodge, use skills and also w8 for F1-F2 to recharge)

Miam is definately weaker than before,and even before it was strugling against many builds classes.We lost 50% torment dmg on shatter and might on shatters,which is quite significant nerf.I ve been trying yesterday,but it just doesnt play well anymore on its own,maybe with some might stacks it might hurt,but atm its ridiculous dmg compared to our own build options or other classes condie dmg.

+1 to revert,definately

The thing which bugs me the most is before the patch it was possible to play condition shatter without Scepter thanks to the 2 torment stacks.

After the patch it is almost impossible to play condition shatter without Scepter – try not using Scepter (ie Sword/Torch, Focus, Pistol and Staff) and it’s beyond pathetic.

I hate being forced into mandatory use of a weapon when there was more flexibility before the patch.

Hell I even used Greatsword with condition sigils for a while, and now it’s totally impossible.

Currently I’m having to run Sword/Torch + Scepter/Focus which is the compromise that I have to make until MtD is fixed.

I agree Curunen, but I gave up on that 2 years ago. Most of the players want their one weapon to be the best for a specific job, and the new traits show this design across most classes. The devs are merely listening to their playerbase.

few team fights in tpvp random pugs i was able to hold point versus warrior, ele , engi, thief 1v1 with 1 torment stack
then they came 1v2 warrior and engi and still manage to down 1 and stomp but thief came and burst me so i blink away and got killed with steal

anet nerf bit more torment put it from 1 stack to 0.5 stacks

but with full team (where ppl new how to handle conditions) warrior was immune basically all the fight to conditions, ele manage to cleanse always, thief abuse stealth, engi run back heal and engage so i had harder time to handle them and died 50% of the time (with thief 80%) not to mention in 3v3 they support each other with cleanse

so i think i may go back to fight golems now

:D

also i wanted to try hybrid with carrion gs+staff and now i cant as i must take scepter or my dmg will be very low compare to other condi classes and builds.

It is awful how little burst pressure you can put on an opponent now by shattering.

I keep trying to run Sword/Torch + Staff and it sucks so badly compared to pre-patch.

maybe they are afraid that with chrono line we could be doing op dmg with just spamming f1-f5 and all over again f1+f4 doing on golem maybe 40 stacks of torment …..

but forgot to see that we burns all our shattering and defense abilities

Exactly – blowing all our illusions should pay off.

At this point I’m flat out refusing to use scepter. Yes I’m going to be playing a pathetic well below average build, but I’m not going to be forced to use scepter with this patch when I was perfectly happy using Sword/Torch + Staff before the patch.

Curunen.8729:

It is awful how little burst pressure you can put on an opponent now by shattering.

I keep trying to run Sword/Torch + Staff and it sucks so badly compared to pre-patch.

I think your issue is that you’re using torch. Unless you’re using sword, I see very little use for torch in general (unless you’re running PU). Take a look at my build linked above, and try it out. I was chatting with pyro last night and explained why imo pistol is much better. You have better bleeds (even more when pistol trait is fixed) and the stun helps to land shatters more often.

I’m very happy with my maim build as of right now. I’ll record some vids of ChoKawaii being cute and rekting faces in ranked solo q.

MailMail.6534:

Curunen.8729:

It is awful how little burst pressure you can put on an opponent now by shattering.

I keep trying to run Sword/Torch + Staff and it sucks so badly compared to pre-patch.

I think your issue is that you’re using torch. Unless you’re using sword, I see very little use for torch in general (unless you’re running PU). Take a look at my build linked above, and try it out. I was chatting with pyro last night and explained why imo pistol is much better. You have better bleeds (even more when pistol trait is fixed) and the stun helps to land shatters more often.

I’m very happy with my maim build as of right now. I’ll record some vids of ChoKawaii being cute and rekting faces in ranked solo q.

Pistol is my least favourite weapon, and just like Scepter I don’t like being forced into a strict weapon choice for condition shatter to work. I would rather run untraited Focus instead of Pistol because I find it more fun.

The point is I could play Sword/Torch + Staff perfectly fine before the patch. It was not the most effective build compared with power shatter due to of course not having IP, but I could unload heavy condition burst and be evasive thanks to a larger portion of condition application being on the shatters instead of weapon skills – I just prefer the playstyle that Sword/Torch provides.

I was hoping this patch would bring that build up to the level that power shatter is on while maintaining the evasiveness/mobility and survivability that I find the most fun. If anything this patch has been one step forward (traited Mirror/Blink, IP) and two steps back (severely nerfed condition burst output) making it almost unplayable at times and having many hardcounters.

Now it’s just totally inferior and I won’t accept that.

i will post soon few fight in tpvp with mtd build basicaly the same as Mailmail post but different utilities to be more supporting

its nice but the old mtd did more dmg and pressure while now i can do average dmg and compare it to other classes subpar with their dmg like engi, guard, ele etc.

average 8 stacks of torment and 10 confusion while before the patch i could do 12 stacks and 10 confusion (average)

Well I’m sorry your specific version of Maim has been allegedly nerfed to the ground, but I’m going on record to say that my maim build has been highly effective and deadly in soloq ranked play thus far.

I’m glad your build has been effective. If you think I’m complaining for no reason, please test with those weapons (without scepter or pistol) and you’ll see it has been severely neutered compared to before the patch. I wouldn’t complain about a balance patch unless something really got to me, and it was the build I was enjoying the most by far. To have that rendered mostly harmless is difficult to swallow – I’m actually thinking of going back to power shatter which hopefully I’ll find fun enough that I can forget about MtD in the meantime.

I would prefer condition application to be shifted in some way – for example reduce Scepter 2 to 4 stacks for 6 seconds because I find it a joke that one scepter block can deal more torment for more duration than a 4 illusion shatter.

I’m getting tired of elemental/guardian/necros with amazing sustain and damage that a condi mesmer can’t keep up with. Oh and grenades, WTF already. It seems other classes are starting to flock to their OP builds and less and less people are easy kills for a mesmer burst.

Curunen.8729:

I’m glad your build has been effective. If you think I’m complaining for no reason, please test with those weapons (without scepter or pistol) and you’ll see it has been severely neutered compared to before the patch. I wouldn’t complain about a balance patch unless something really got to me, and it was the build I was enjoying the most by far. To have that rendered mostly harmless is difficult to swallow – I’m actually thinking of going back to power shatter which hopefully I’ll find fun enough that I can forget about MtD in the meantime.

I would prefer condition application to be shifted in some way – for example reduce Scepter 2 to 4 stacks for 6 seconds because I find it a joke that one scepter block can deal more torment for more duration than a 4 illusion shatter.

I’ll pass on testing sword. I believe you. And I’m not saying there’s no reason to complain. I’m just saying that as a build, there is some viability there despite the 50% torment nerf. It’s similar to how there was only 2 shatter specs (classic and double ranged). I imagine only 1 or 2 at most maim builds will emerge as “viable”.

Also, shatters don’t just apply torment. It also applies confusion. You’re looking at it without proper context in that example. One Scepter Block = 5 stacks of torment. One full melee MindWrack = 4 stacks of torment + 4-5 stacks of confusion. I’d rather stop seeing the Scepter2 comparison, because it’s inherently deceiving.

Edit: I forgot to add in the small amount of direct damage of mind wrack in a pure condition build – but in any case it’s only going to fill the gap to make it on par with scepter 2.

MailMail.6534:

Curunen.8729:

I’m glad your build has been effective. If you think I’m complaining for no reason, please test with those weapons (without scepter or pistol) and you’ll see it has been severely neutered compared to before the patch. I wouldn’t complain about a balance patch unless something really got to me, and it was the build I was enjoying the most by far. To have that rendered mostly harmless is difficult to swallow – I’m actually thinking of going back to power shatter which hopefully I’ll find fun enough that I can forget about MtD in the meantime.

I would prefer condition application to be shifted in some way – for example reduce Scepter 2 to 4 stacks for 6 seconds because I find it a joke that one scepter block can deal more torment for more duration than a 4 illusion shatter.

I’ll pass on testing sword. I believe you. And I’m not saying there’s no reason to complain. I’m just saying that as a build, there is some viability there despite the 50% torment nerf. It’s similar to how there was only 2 shatter specs (classic and double ranged). I imagine only 1 or 2 at most maim builds will emerge as “viable”.

Also, shatters don’t just apply torment. It also applies confusion. You’re looking at it without proper context in that example. One Scepter Block = 5 stacks of torment. One full melee MindWrack = 4 stacks of torment + 4-5 stacks of confusion. I’d rather stop seeing the Scepter2 comparison, because it’s inherently deceiving.

The 4 confusion on mind wrack lasts what, 4 seconds? And the 4 torment stacks last 6 seconds.

Scepter 2 5 torment stacks lasts 8 seconds.

Numbers will vary with build and enemy, but taking some numbers in my current pvp build sitting in HotM:

Mind Wrack:
6.5 seconds of torment = 502 (stationary), 1003 (moving)
4.25 seconds of confusion = 144 (no skill use), 251 (using skills)

Edit: To clarify, the numbers below are for a 4 illusion mind wrack.
Total damage if using skils and moving = 5016 (torment and confusion combined)
Total damage if using skills and not moving = 3012
Total damage if not using skills and moving = 4588
Total damage if not using skills and not moving = 2584

Scepter 2:
8.75 seconds of 5x torment = 3344 (stationary), 6687 (moving)

Durations and cleansing aside, unless I’m mistaken – the total damage of confusion+torment on a 4 illusion shatter is always less than the total damage of a scepter 2 torment stack, providing both of them last to their full duration. In reality they’re both usually cleansed so neither of them is going to be doing the full damage.

The extra blind and confusion from Ineptitude and Blinding Dissipation doesn’t matter because Scepter 2 blinds anyway and will add that extra stack of confusion as well.

Confusion is a poor substitute for torment, even with it ticking without an enemy using their skills. I’d rather lose blinding dissipation and ineptitude and have 2 torment stacks back.

Just curious, but am I the only one that really wants condi mesmer to be effective in PvE? Seems like everyone is primarily discussing this trait for PvP. I’ve been playing PU condi in PvP for a bit and it seems very strong to me, but only because I can use the high stealth uptime to let my shatters recharge and set up a confusion burst, or disengage.

I’m personally sick of melee sword auto attack gameplay in PvE. I’ve tried some condi builds in dungeons with full Verata’s gear, and it’s just terrible. Currently the viable PvE condi builds work because they can “burst” or “front-load” their conditions. The faster you can get high stacks, the better you perform next to berserkers. Mesmer takes way too much time to build up bleeds from clone crits, and has way too much downtime between shatters. Not to mention MtD just can’t put enough stacks to match burn damage, especially when mobs stand still.

What if they kept MtD the way it is and add 5 stacks of bleed for 5 seconds per phantasm that gets shattered? I would also like to see a trait that adds 2-3 stacks of burning for 5 seconds when a clone or phantasm crits. We need a little extra something if condi mesmer is ever going to be a thing outside of PvP.

Does anyone else even care about that or am I the only one? ._.

I forgot to say that nevermind Scepter 2 traited with illusionists celerity which you get for free going into illusions is on an 8 second cooldown… that’s ridiculous when you think about trying to generate 3 illusions and be in melee range every time you shatter with mind wrack.

Then CoF is on a higher cooldown so less frequent, and I’d rather save Diversion/Distortion for utility than damage.

As someone who plays pretty much every class I can say with certainty that all MTD really needed was an internal CD.

It didn’t need to be changed so much, it just needed a slight adjustment to keep it in line.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

As someone who plays pretty much every class I can say with certainty that all MTD really needed was an internal CD.

It didn’t need to be changed so much, it just needed a slight adjustment to keep it in line.

I don’t think an internal cooldown would be a good idea given that it is already limited by shatter cooldowns and illusion generation. Even if you do hit several shatters in a row, the only difference would be an extra 2 torment stacks from IP if you’re in melee range.

Generally after baiting out cleanses (excluding shoutbows, eles and similar – thinking more of zerker thieves and suchlike here) and going in for the kill, it was the lingering duration that would have been a problem now – so opponents would have no choice but to watch their health bar drop away while not being able to do anything about it. 2 stacks would give high intensity burst ticks, but if it wore off after a shorter duration (say 4 seconds base instead of the 6 seconds we currently have and had) then it would give opponents a second chance if for whatever reason they are unable to cleanse.

Curunen.8729:

The thing which bugs me the most is before the patch it was possible to play condition shatter without Scepter thanks to the 2 torment stacks.

After the patch it is almost impossible to play condition shatter without Scepter – try not using Scepter (ie Sword/Torch, Focus, Pistol and Staff) and it’s beyond pathetic.

I hate being forced into mandatory use of a weapon when there was more flexibility before the patch.

Hell I even used Greatsword with condition sigils for a while, and now it’s totally impossible.

Currently I’m having to run Sword/Torch + Scepter/Focus which is the compromise that I have to make until MtD is fixed.

Yeah I was loving hybrid mesmer with Staff+GS and maim, but it doesn’t drop enough pressure now

Curunen.8729:

math

Well let me give you my numbers that I’m currently seeing:
4-Clone Mind Wrack
8s Torment = 623 (stationary) 1245 (moving)
5s Confusion = 136 (skill-use) 291 (dot)
You for forgot to add in the additional blind since we’re talking a 4 clone shatter. It’s 6.75s btw with a 391 dot.

Illusionary Counter
10.75s Torment = 3,889 (stationary) 7,778 (moving)

But before I go any further, here’s your pitfall and probably the reason why your numbers are leading you to believe that confusion isn’t strong in maim: confusion applies conditional damage. In your math, how many skill uses are you calculating: 1, 2, 3 or maybe a Rapid Fire? You’re not calculating the full potential of being able to stack confusion. Let’s be honest, high stacks of confusion is probably one of the best conditions in the game, because it’s extremely hard to not use skills when you are in a pvp setting. This is why confusion was nerfed in the first place.

Again, comparing scepter 2 and your condition application on shatter doesn’t seem to be of any value to me. The former awards you for blocking an attack that is EASY to avoid as well as easy to dodge. The latter are offensive… and you have 4 of them. There’s no reason why scepter block should be inherently “weaker” than your shatters.

The extra blind and confusion from Ineptitude and Blinding Dissipation doesn’t matter because Scepter 2 blinds anyway and will add that extra stack of confusion as well.

False. You choose either to block for the torment or counter spell for the blind. You don’t get both. It will not add any extra confusion unless traited.

Confusion is a poor substitute for torment, even with it ticking without an enemy using their skills. I’d rather lose blinding dissipation and ineptitude and have 2 torment stacks back.

For someone who hasn’t tried the most optimal Maim build currently available, I think you’re being extremely short sighted in your assertions. In my experiences, confusion has definitely compensated for the 50% torment nerf. Losing both Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude would make thief our hard counter again. I don’t think you mean for that to happen…

I did add the 4th confusion for the 4 clone shatter.

With scepter block, if Ineptitude and Blinding Dissipation are traited then chances are you’re going to get the blind from blocking anyway so I didn’t bother counting a 5th stack. My mistake in confusing that.

Yes my mistake for not taking into account the number of skills an enemy would use if confused. Sure some players might spam a silly number of skills while confusion is on them, but in under 5 seconds I don’t see enough people spamming enough skills to provide enough confusion ticks to push a 4 illusion mind wrack well above a single scepter block.

I expect numbers from a single mind wrack to be significantly higher than a single scepter block out of principle, and I don’t see it in practice.

And for the record I have played with scepter post patch in this build (staff + scepter focus, sword/torch + scepter/pistol, sword/torch + scepter/focus…) so I have been able to deal good damage say from block dodge into CoF, focus pull into confusing images or whatever. The point is the condition burst from a full shatter without supplementary damage from weapon skills is too weak.

Pistol is irrelevant to the argument because it only deals in bleed and also fits into damage coming from weapon skills rather than from the shatter.

Regardless I believe pigeonholing our weapon choices in this build when there were more options before the patch is silly. I spoke too harshly about ineptitude which is a fantastic trait that I enjoy using, but I would trade blinding dissipation in a heartbeat if it meant getting 2 torment stacks on mtd back. With baseline IP and other things I feel we’re fine vs thieves anyway so I don’t find it necessary (although currently it is strong)

On that note I was also really looking forward to confusing combatants and running greatsword + sword/torch in a pure condition shatter (or hybrid), but with one trait deleted and the other nerfed that’s impossible now.

guys you forget something

confusion on shatter was there before the patch so confusion stacking was always there
now the torment got nerfed to mtd build got nerfed whether you can stack confusion
as you could did it before

Mailmail – video is uploading so i would love to hear your thoughts

Looking forward to your video messiah. Will be interesting to compare with your videos from before the patch.

Curunen.8729:

Looking forward to your video messiah. Will be interesting to compare with your videos from before the patch.

its up and already ppl say its crap (i cant say i feel otherwise) but still good build

messiah.1908:

guys you forget something

confusion on shatter was there before the patch so confusion stacking was always there
now the torment got nerfed to mtd build got nerfed whether you can stack confusion
as you could did it before

Mailmail – video is uploading so i would love to hear your thoughts

Confusion sucked before. Confusion is a lot stronger now. And you could not stack confusion like you can now with Ineptitude/Blinding Dissipation.

lot stronger???? are more 4-5 stacks mean lot stronger?

but as you said they reduce 1 torment and gave 1 confusion ability when blind

but i think torment is more stronger than confusion as it prevent moving

but also the abilities now which cleanse so often ether way giving you low chance to be effective in tpvp

It’s not like 1 more stack of confusion warrants nerfing us into oblivion. I was thinking about playing some PvP yesterday, but then I tested some things on a golem first and decided not to.

It’s beyond me how they said “We’re not gonna do huge balance changes” and then almost immediately nerf the decent stuff we’ve had into oblivion, let the one kinda op trait we have (PU) untouched, and apparently don’t even try to fix our bugs. Meanwhile, the other classes can keep their op stuff and get their bugs fixed (except those bugs that make them even more op; they can keep those).

Makes me wanna go and cry in a corner.

I really hope they will do some really good stuff with the patch that I kinda expect to come tomorrow (as they fixed and adjusted stuff a week after the initial patch before).

Anet, please undo the hilarious nerfs and make something reasonable out of it. Also, fix our bugs; we’ve got plenty of them. Then, fix/nerf the (actual) op-ness of many of the other classes. Thanks.~~

i think Anet after seen what have been done to mesmer and its community diecide to hold any more nerf which defenetly needed (burning abilities) and let things settle down (as they should have done)
and probably issue all lement together and not class by class

but yes nerfing 4 stacks of torment to get 1 stack of confusion is huge nerf for all game style (not consider pu play style which i hate)

The removal of clone death traits has also made setting up shatters in a condi spec much more difficult as players learn that there is little or no penalty for AE spam. I understand why this happened as the PU/clone spam build was hugely unpopular; however, it seems that the synergy of these traits with other condi specs was largely overlooked when the balance team was passing out additional nerfs.

Maybe if there were actually torment/confusion runes and sigils?

I can buff burning and bleeding durations and damage but of course there is jack for torment and confusion.

Confusion has runes, at least.

Niminion.1982:

Maybe if there were actually torment/confusion runes and sigils?

I can buff burning and bleeding durations and damage but of course there is jack for torment and confusion.

Nothing in pvp other than Nightmare, but we have Tormenting and Perplexity for wvw.

Carighan.6758:

Confusion has runes, at least.

They both have runes but they won’t put either into PvP.

@MailMail:
The questions are:
How effective is this build if you pick one of the other traits than MtD?
How effective is it when compared to other condition builds out there? (Namely burning right now.)

Levetty.1279:

They both have runes but they won’t put either into PvP.

sPvP. They can be used in WvW, so it’s all perfectly fine there.

Carighan.6758:

Levetty.1279:

They both have runes but they won’t put either into PvP.

sPvP. They can be used in WvW, so it’s all perfectly fine there.

WvW is PvD

Korusef.3714:

@MailMail:
The questions are:
How effective is this build if you pick one of the other traits than MtD?
How effective is it when compared to other condition builds out there? (Namely burning right now.)

1v1 this build still works just fine as in blind constantly so giving you time to your condition to tick

but in group play where constantly condition get cleanse you need fast short burst of 2-3 sec to you condi to tick so you need higher dmg output .

at the moment i play with guildies and they like this build cause i am the resser and stomper with stability while they burst. i can spam blind, and pressure with low condi dmg and give chaos armor
i can hold 1v1 points even against burn guard and dd ele and engis (not 100% but can)
i can hold 1v2 for few seconds in some scenarios so my team got advantage even if i die we get 2 points at least

so even if we get 2 torment back to be effective in group fight with condition still be hard but at least if i catch some one with 15 stacks of torment it will hurts for 2 sec with 6k dmg and not 2k dmg

Korusef.3714:

@MailMail:
The questions are:
How effective is this build if you pick one of the other traits than MtD?
How effective is it when compared to other condition builds out there? (Namely burning right now.)

1. Not very effective, because you’re not dishing out enough condition damage with confusion alone, though it’s still a lot. The might stacks would boost your other condi dmg, but wouldn’t make up for the loss of torment. No torment also means it’s easier to clear the confusion. Phantasmal haste would only benefit pDuelist which would net you more bleeds more often.

2. Not very effective. Burning is insanely strong. The strongest condi above confusion. However, I think that’s more of a reflection on burn [and the need for it to be nerfed] than it is on Maim. Necro condi builds are supposed to be the best condi builds in the game. Engineer has a higher condi burst than we do. That’s always been weird to me. That being said, there are still 2 unique things that our condi build can potentially offer that others can’t:

• Boon removal & Disruption (Domination)
• On-demand stability for stomps (Chaos)

MailMail.6534:

2. Not very effective. Burning is insanely strong. The strongest condi above confusion. However, I think that’s more of a reflection on burn [and the need for it to be nerfed] than it is on Maim. Necro condi builds are supposed to be the best condi builds in the game. Engineer has a higher condi burst than we do. That’s always been weird to me. That being said, there are still 2 unique things that our condi build can potentially offer that others can’t:

• Boon removal & Disruption (Domination)
• On-demand stability for stomps (Chaos)

burning is insane and probably be nerfed not by dmg rather by classes application (like cd etc)

i feel ragarding condition procing that the mesmer is the best so far.

necro cant stack torment and confusion like we do, the burning is the same . but necro has fear which alongside signet burst can few scepter AA is huge condi pressure

engi also cant stack condi like we do. most of them i see doing 5 bleed, 5 confusion, 5 burning, and 3 poison with huge stacks of vulnerability. the main dmg comes also from direct dmg with grenades and bomb which we lack. but also engi got better healing and blocking ability (2 shields) and faster cd on condi abilities.

but regarding the conditions themselvs mesmer for me before (the patch) produce higher conditions . as for now after the patch bleeding 3-5, burning 1, confusion 10, torment 10 , poison 1-2, blind (almost perma), vulnerability 2-5, weakness

which is the best (i like so much mesmer) engi so far

Levetty.1279:

WvW is PvD

PvD?

Carighan.6758:

Levetty.1279:

WvW is PvD

PvD?

Player versus Door. Usually meaning karmatrains blobbing around when/where there’s no resistance to be expected and usually wetting their pants and running away as soon as they are not outnumbering their opponents (if there happen to be any) at least 5:1 anymore. However, it can also be what smaller groups chose to do when they are massively outnumbered themselves… go and try to PvD something while the “enemy” blobs are in another part of the map.

WvW is less fun than even PvE.

But back on topic…

If pvp had more than stand in a circle to win. I might agree but I enjoy wvw for the open fighting style. Wish gw2 had more pvp modes.