Guild Wars 2

This is an sPvP thread

So I was dueling a Mesmer yesterday, he was playing meta chronomancer. I was playing core FA ele (for fun, I don’t usually) and twice he beat me after using the signet and hitting me with his shatters again/distorting during my burst. This didn’t really bother me; yeah, he’s playing a better dueling spec and he won, no big deal. But it made me wonder, why was the recharge reduced to 60s? That means it can be used in almost every node fight. This is a signet that also makes your illusions more resilient passively, making mesmers more useful in node fights since their illusions won’t be immediately cleaved.

A lot of players QQ about moa, but realistically it’s an elite and so should be very powerful. On top of that moa has a big tell and is blockable. That all seems in order to me. But SoI? No counterplay except for interrupts I suppose, and it recharges mesmer’s most important offensive and defensive profession mechanics all at once. That sounds like an elite to me, but it’s a regular utility on a 60s recharge. I think the recharge should be reverted to 90s in sPvP, that way mesmers have to think a little harder about when to use it.

You waited a year and a half to ask for the CD to be reverted?

OriOri.8724:

You waited a year and a half to ask for the CD to be reverted?

Didn’t seem OP when I was playing mesmer

There is no situation in which any mesmer will ever think harder about using SoI.

You might have some valid point about CD, but that one isnt it.

“Hmm, I’ve burst and put all my F skills on CD. Time to use SoI!”

Increasing the CD also means very little with CS. No matter what it’s going to find double use every 90s with CS.

Essentially there’s nothing wrong with SoL. There’s everything wrong with HoT elite specs and their overall effect on GW2.

Ross Biddle.2367:

There is no situation in which any mesmer will ever think harder about using SoI.

You might have some valid point about CD, but that one isnt it.

“Hmm, I’ve burst and put all my F skills on CD. Time to use SoI!”

Increasing the CD also means very little with CS. No matter what it’s going to find double use every 90s with CS.

Essentially there’s nothing wrong with SoL. There’s everything wrong with HoT elite specs and their overall effect on GW2.

Yes, currently increasing the CD won’t change the fact that you can use it twice every 90 seconds (or 76.5) due to CS. But that goes out the window when we get the next elite spec and not everyone plays chronomancer anymore.

I really wish people who played mesmer would start looking at skill CDs objectively and leave CS out of it. CS doesn’t affect base mesmer, and it won’t affect anyone who plays the new elite spec, as such, any and all core mesmer skill CDs should be balanced primarily without CS in mind, and then if it happens to be overtuned with CS in play then it can be adjusted later.

Ross Biddle.2367:

There is no situation in which any mesmer will ever think harder about using SoI.

You might have some valid point about CD, but that one isnt it.

“Hmm, I’ve burst and put all my F skills on CD. Time to use SoI!”

Increasing the CD also means very little with CS. No matter what it’s going to find double use every 90s with CS.

Essentially there’s nothing wrong with SoL. There’s everything wrong with HoT elite specs and their overall effect on GW2.

Alright, fine, they won’t think harder. But they will be punished by that decision by only being able to use it at the end of a particular node fight, which might be too late to make a difference. I don’t disagree that HoT specs are ridiculous and make the game impossible to balance, doesn’t mean we can’t discuss power creep with core skills. A 33% reduction in CD on a very powerful normal utility is worth looking at. Why did they even do that? It was still useful when it was 90s.

OriOri.8724:

Ross Biddle.2367:

There is no situation in which any mesmer will ever think harder about using SoI.

You might have some valid point about CD, but that one isnt it.

“Hmm, I’ve burst and put all my F skills on CD. Time to use SoI!”

Increasing the CD also means very little with CS. No matter what it’s going to find double use every 90s with CS.

Essentially there’s nothing wrong with SoL. There’s everything wrong with HoT elite specs and their overall effect on GW2.

Yes, currently increasing the CD won’t change the fact that you can use it twice every 90 seconds (or 76.5) due to CS. But that goes out the window when we get the next elite spec and not everyone plays chronomancer anymore.

I really wish people who played mesmer would start looking at skill CDs objectively and leave CS out of it. CS doesn’t affect base mesmer, and it won’t affect anyone who plays the new elite spec, as such, any and all core mesmer skill CDs should be balanced primarily without CS in mind, and then if it happens to be overtuned with CS in play then it can be adjusted later.

You assume the next elite spec will give mesmer a viable build and that Chrono won’t remain utterly necessary due to the core problems inherent in mesmer design (and in the face of the meta).

And looking at CD’s objectively is a nightmare when, whenever you do it, it can’t be done as a standalone balancing act of the class in and of itself. You want to nerf a single skill or utility? Without upheaving all the other elite specs you threaten to unbalance the meta and potentially knock a class out of the competition. It’s laughable how few mesmers are playing right not in fact what with all the Dh’s, Ele’s, and War’s running around. Add to that the ever obnoxious druids and even necros, your desire to talk “objectively” about a tweaking a single utility is on par with the effort to take a leisurely approach to hiking Everest.

But yes, you’re right, CS doesn’t effect base mesmer. But Chrono effects every weapon, utility, and elite currently in play! Chrono may need CD increases, but base mesmer does not. Base mesmer operates at about 1/3 the potential of chrono given everything, it’s ridiculous having to run it in an elite spec age (the eAge).

I know it’s crazy to suggest it but the game needs an entire redesign once again to properly balance how weapons/traits/skills/utilities/elite specs work. The devs won’t be ready to admit it yet, and I presume the game will fall to the annals of history before it comes about, but balancing elite specs and the matter of core lines will never be resolved until they do.

Ross Biddle.2367:

And looking at CD’s objectively is a nightmare when, whenever you do it, it can’t be done as a standalone balancing act of the class in and of itself. You want to nerf a single skill or utility? Without upheaving all the other elite specs you threaten to unbalance the meta and potentially knock a class out of the competition. It’s laughable how few mesmers are playing right not in fact what with all the Dh’s, Ele’s, and War’s running around. Add to that the ever obnoxious druids and even necros, your desire to talk “objectively” about a tweaking a single utility is on par with the effort to take a leisurely approach to hiking Everest.

I find it incredibly hilarious that anyone is complaining about the health of clones and phantasms for this paragraph right here. With the number of DH, Wars (power and condi), overload air, scrappers and just general cleave in a team fight most clones don’t even reach their target with superspeed as they’re already dead.

But mesmers role is not being in the team fight however lets look at what it will fight.
It should rarely be 1v1/2 vs an ele, necro or thief and 2 of those it has an advantage against but they will usually be in a team fight unless running from spawn.

So what’s left?
Rev, Scrapper, DH, War, Druid and mesmer.
Most of the time a scrapper, DH and war will massacre your phantasms and isn’t a favourable matchup at all. So that leaves us with easy kill Rev and a battle of who is pro mesmer. The druid with a moa can be taken out nicely and can be decent for mes to fight but druids do have good sustain, I haven’t fought one my level on mesmer though so I can’t really comment.

apharma.3741:

Ross Biddle.2367:

And looking at CD’s objectively is a nightmare when, whenever you do it, it can’t be done as a standalone balancing act of the class in and of itself. You want to nerf a single skill or utility? Without upheaving all the other elite specs you threaten to unbalance the meta and potentially knock a class out of the competition. It’s laughable how few mesmers are playing right not in fact what with all the Dh’s, Ele’s, and War’s running around. Add to that the ever obnoxious druids and even necros, your desire to talk “objectively” about a tweaking a single utility is on par with the effort to take a leisurely approach to hiking Everest.

I find it incredibly hilarious that anyone is complaining about the health of clones and phantasms for this paragraph right here. With the number of DH, Wars (power and condi), overload air, scrappers and just general cleave in a team fight most clones don’t even reach their target with superspeed as they’re already dead.

But mesmers role is not being in the team fight however lets look at what it will fight.
It should rarely be 1v1/2 vs an ele, necro or thief and 2 of those it has an advantage against but they will usually be in a team fight unless running from spawn.

So what’s left?
Rev, Scrapper, DH, War, Druid and mesmer.
Most of the time a scrapper, DH and war will massacre your phantasms and isn’t a favourable matchup at all. So that leaves us with easy kill Rev and a battle of who is pro mesmer. The druid with a moa can be taken out nicely and can be decent for mes to fight but druids do have good sustain, I haven’t fought one my level on mesmer though so I can’t really comment.

Geez, all the exaggeration. DH cleaves clones at first; ultimately condi chrono beats a DH, unless you’re fighting a full trapper that’s already laid his traps and is waiting for you. Their cleaving AoE, particularly ToF, does not last. Power warrior will most definitely cleave illusions, but condi warrior? They don’t even have a cleaving weapon, are you thinking they’d do it with LB burst? I think a healbot ele would not be beatable, I agree, though you could always interrupt water overload and see what happens. Scrapper isn’t really going to cleave your illusions, but at the same time chrono doesn’t apply much of a variety of condis, so scrapper’s limited but consistent condi clears will take care of your bursts.

Maybe you should hit up the dueling arenas and see the possibilities for condi chrono before claiming it has so many terrible matchups, it’s hands-down the favorite 1v1 build. I do agree that it’s generally not very useful in node fights though, it’s a predator not a team fighter.

apharma.3741:

Ross Biddle.2367:

And looking at CD’s objectively is a nightmare when, whenever you do it, it can’t be done as a standalone balancing act of the class in and of itself. You want to nerf a single skill or utility? Without upheaving all the other elite specs you threaten to unbalance the meta and potentially knock a class out of the competition. It’s laughable how few mesmers are playing right not in fact what with all the Dh’s, Ele’s, and War’s running around. Add to that the ever obnoxious druids and even necros, your desire to talk “objectively” about a tweaking a single utility is on par with the effort to take a leisurely approach to hiking Everest.

I find it incredibly hilarious that anyone is complaining about the health of clones and phantasms for this paragraph right here. With the number of DH, Wars (power and condi), overload air, scrappers and just general cleave in a team fight most clones don’t even reach their target with superspeed as they’re already dead.

But mesmers role is not being in the team fight

What I find hilarious is that the only reason Mesmer doesn’t fit in a team fight is because the clone mechanic in the face of all the team fight aoe and cleave is what keeps them out of it. Remove the problem, alter and ultimately open up (diversify) the roles mesmer can manage.

Huskyboy.1053:

Geez, all the exaggeration. DH cleaves clones at first; ultimately condi chrono beats a DH, unless you’re fighting a full trapper that’s already laid his traps and is waiting for you. Their cleaving AoE, particularly ToF, does not last. Power warrior will most definitely cleave illusions, but condi warrior? They don’t even have a cleaving weapon, are you thinking they’d do it with LB burst? I think a healbot ele would not be beatable, I agree, though you could always interrupt water overload and see what happens. Scrapper isn’t really going to cleave your illusions, but at the same time chrono doesn’t apply much of a variety of condis, so scrapper’s limited but consistent condi clears will take care of your bursts.

Maybe you should hit up the dueling arenas and see the possibilities for condi chrono before claiming it has so many terrible matchups, it’s hands-down the favorite 1v1 build. I do agree that it’s generally not very useful in node fights though, it’s a predator not a team fighter.

Not exaggerating, the DH will decap a node if you were fighting on your node or it will take quite a while to kill DH due to the high number of blocks and cleave.

Condi war isn’t a favourable match up if running GS and a few do, even then they have a lot of resistance making it a harder match up.

Scrapper doesn’t cleave clones? What kind of scrappers are you fighting, magi scrappers? You might beat a paladin scrapper but menders will beat all but the best played mesmers.

I don’t just base this off my own experience I also base it off streams I’ve seen from people who are better than me who flat out say these aren’t good match ups.

The thing is, Moa can always turn the fight, land it with your burst and it can be gg, don’t land it and many of these fights are completely impossible.