Guild Wars 2

Anyone find that the respawn rate in Orr is ridiculous? I was mining Orichalcum and 3 mobs respawned on me (I am assuming the guardian who mined the node before killed them).

The time it took for me to kill 2 of the mobs (I am using a GS/Staff Phantasm build), one of them respawned, and when I killed a second…yes ANOTHER respawned.

I know our Phantasms have increased recharge now…but shouldn’t they also adjust mob respawn rate to match?

I find it really discouraging when I see a guardian come in, pull in all 3 mobs, spin once, then spin twice 8 seconds later to kill all of them WHILST I am still struggling to create my third phantasm on my first target.

That made me test comparatively my 80 exotic guardian Vs 80 exotic thief Vs 80 exotic mesmer how long it takes to kill one mob, move on to the next mob and kill that one outside Meddler’s Wapoint:

Guardian: 16-20 seconds
Thief: 20-26 seconds
Mesmer: 28-32 seconds

And before anyone says this doesn’t matter, it does. Running through Orr to mine orichalcum and harvest ancient wood is very important to crafting exotics and as a source of in-game income. This includes being able to mass tag mobs in events. Some professions are simply able to tag faster and more reliably, thus procuring more drops equating to increased wealth.

I put it to Anet to go check the amount of gold earned on players who use Warriors and Guardians vs. those who use Mesmers and balance abilities according to that too, instead of PVP solely.

If the solution to this is to change PVE build or change character/profession, then it goes against Anet’s promise of allowing the player to play the way he/she wants to. If the solution is to stop mining/harvesting and find other means to get gold, then it is denying the player content.

Me as a Mesmer need about 10s to kill a mob, I also can kill a 3-4 mobs in about 30s. Orr is supposed to be high level area that is dangerous and evil. I admit, that this gets frustrating and annyoing from time to time (especially Malchor’s Leap). But stick to it, this is no casual Angry Bird game.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Me as a Mesmer need about 10s to kill a mob, I also can kill a 3-4 mobs in about 30s. Orr is supposed to be high level area that is dangerous and evil. I admit, that this gets frustrating and annyoing from time to time (especially Malchor’s Leap). But stick to it, this is no casual Angry Bird game.

Well the OP’s point is that some classes kill a lot easier and make more money than other classes, specifically the mesmer. Your response is glib and vacuous for missing all of this.

Yes, not all classes are exactly equal in all areas of the game. If this is a surprise, welcome to your first MMO, happy to have you on board.

(Sorry, but this starts to tick me off, people complain about it like this is anything but a fundamental truth of class-based game design.)

ProtoGunner.4953:

Me as a Mesmer need about 10s to kill a mob, I also can kill a 3-4 mobs in about 30s. Orr is supposed to be high level area that is dangerous and evil. I admit, that this gets frustrating and annyoing from time to time (especially Malchor’s Leap). But stick to it, this is no casual Angry Bird game.

Yes I agree that it is possible to kill mobs quicker, but still never as quick as a reliable aoe-capable profession. When your went against those 3-4 mobs, I bet u were on the edge of your seat, staying alive whilst creating illusions and staying alive.

The difference is that for other professions, 3-4 mobs is very easy. This creates a disparity: what is easy and even boring to a guardian can be deadly to professions which has less aoe.

Yes,. it’s no “casual Angry Birds game” for the mesmer, but it is for a guardian. So is the content imbalanced? Or are the professions?

Carighan.6758:

Yes, not all classes are exactly equal in all areas of the game. If this is a surprise, welcome to your first MMO, happy to have you on board.

(Sorry, but this starts to tick me off, people complain about it like this is anything but a fundamental truth of class-based game design.)

I play all 8 classes. The differences are a bit extreme for mesmer money generation vs other classes. In other games (and I’ve played many, most likely far more than you Carighan if you want to play I’ve been everywhere wise man in this thread) I haven’t experienced such disparity (DEs simply require aoe skills – mesmers really don’t have these and often don’t get any loot because of this).

To play this game, you have to play more than just the mesmer class if you want to generate money. That I have to say is really bad class design.

Carighan.6758:

Yes, not all classes are exactly equal in all areas of the game. If this is a surprise, welcome to your first MMO, happy to have you on board.

(Sorry, but this starts to tick me off, people complain about it like this is anything but a fundamental truth of class-based game design.)

If you are saying that Mesmers are meant to solely excel in PVP, then Anet has to split PVP and PVE abilities like they did in GW1 because it will never be balanced, and THAT is the fundamental truth of all class-based game design.

If you are saying that Mesmers are not meant to participate in something as fundamental as in-game economy then why have an economy at all if Anet wants to exclude players?

Most importantly, in-game economy DOES involve real world money. Procurement and prices of materials will end up benefitting certain professions and this wealth disparity could make gold-poor players turn to gold sellers simply because they cannot remain competitive and farm as well.

This then makes botting lucrative. If people do not understand that the economy has to be balanced between all professions, then be prepared for more bots and a slow move towards a pay-to-win mentality.

For as long as there is a need for gold by poorer players, those gold sellers WILL keep on hacking accounts, botting and trying to sell gold to said players.

P/S: I would also recommend that Anet implement a feature so that when such incidences are reported, those accounts get placed on ignore lists so I don’t have to keep reporting and deleting mails and bots.

If you are saying that Mesmers are meant to solely excel in PVP, then Anet has to split PVP and PVE abilities like they did in GW1 because it will never be balanced, and THAT is the fundamental truth of all class-based game design.

No I’m not saying that.
I am saying that there is an imbalance, yes. Surprise! (seriously, is anyone honestly surprised if a MMO is imbalanced? Especially in a sub-area of the game?)
Moreover, Mesmers – or any class – aren’t dysfunctional, so the balance is “ok-ish”. I also love how people are over-exaggerating their PvE problems. If you honestly can’t get gold in a DE as a Mesmer, I hate to break it to you, but the problem isn’t the class. It’s ok to accept that one isn’t a top player. Yes, we have to work a little bit harder to get gold, compare to a Warrior just facerolling through the bunch on WW-CD and getting gold. Fair enough, there needs to be a newbie-class, too.
But we aren’t falling apart, we’re not actually farming slowly (slower yes, but slower by a small amount).

P.S.:
lollie, I suspect you will now talk about how a Warrior or a Cleric could farm Kunark just as well as a Druid or Necro?
Yes, I know what I’m talking about. GW2 isn’t as well-balanced as WoW, but it is better balanced than WoW was when it was just released.

Blah blah blah missing the point and pretending it isn’t an issue doesn’t make it not an issue Cari baby.

I play level 80 mesmer and warrior.

Honestly, mesmer is far stronger than what you guys seem to be thinking. My mesmer kills mobs just as fast as my warrior, can pull 3-4 mobs and has no problem tagging in events, even overcrowded ones.

The main difference with my warrior, abd the reason I use my warrior for farming purpose, is that it’s far more forgiving than mesmer. You can basically just ignore your hp bar with a warrior, while a mesmer will die quickly if you don’t pay attention. But that’s perfectly normal, imo.

If you feel underpowered compared to other classes, you should really think about changing your build/gear. I know a lot of people still go for condition damage and staff, but that’s definitely not a good farming spec.

Carighan.6758:

If you are saying that Mesmers are meant to solely excel in PVP, then Anet has to split PVP and PVE abilities like they did in GW1 because it will never be balanced, and THAT is the fundamental truth of all class-based game design.

No I’m not saying that.
I am saying that there is an imbalance, yes. Surprise! (seriously, is anyone honestly surprised if a MMO is imbalanced? Especially in a sub-area of the game?)
Moreover, Mesmers – or any class – aren’t dysfunctional, so the balance is “ok-ish”. I also love how people are over-exaggerating their PvE problems. If you honestly can’t get gold in a DE as a Mesmer, I hate to break it to you, but the problem isn’t the class. It’s ok to accept that one isn’t a top player. Yes, we have to work a little bit harder to get gold, compare to a Warrior just facerolling through the bunch on WW-CD and getting gold. Fair enough, there needs to be a newbie-class, too.
But we aren’t falling apart, we’re not actually farming slowly (slower yes, but slower by a small amount).

Have you actually tried farming with a guardian compared to a mesmer? A guardian can fill bags in a single Shelter or Penitent camp event and get more rares without dying or even trying, by mesmer can never tag the same amount, no matter the build.

And again I stress: in-game economy MUST be balanced for all professions.

Shadoekin.3928:

Carighan.6758:

If you are saying that Mesmers are meant to solely excel in PVP, then Anet has to split PVP and PVE abilities like they did in GW1 because it will never be balanced, and THAT is the fundamental truth of all class-based game design.

No I’m not saying that.
I am saying that there is an imbalance, yes. Surprise! (seriously, is anyone honestly surprised if a MMO is imbalanced? Especially in a sub-area of the game?)
Moreover, Mesmers – or any class – aren’t dysfunctional, so the balance is “ok-ish”. I also love how people are over-exaggerating their PvE problems. If you honestly can’t get gold in a DE as a Mesmer, I hate to break it to you, but the problem isn’t the class. It’s ok to accept that one isn’t a top player. Yes, we have to work a little bit harder to get gold, compare to a Warrior just facerolling through the bunch on WW-CD and getting gold. Fair enough, there needs to be a newbie-class, too.
But we aren’t falling apart, we’re not actually farming slowly (slower yes, but slower by a small amount).

Have you actually tried farming with a guardian compared to a mesmer? A guardian can fill bags in a single Shelter or Penitent camp event and get more rares without dying or even trying, by mesmer can never tag the same amount, no matter the build.

And again I stress: in-game economy MUST be balanced for all professions.

I have no problem at all filling my bags with a single penitent or shelter event as a mesmer. What weapon are you using ?

zun.2905:

I have no problem at all filling my bags with a single penitent or shelter event as a mesmer. What weapon are you using ?

For the mesmer GS/Sword for Blurred Frenzy, iBerserker and sword autoattack. Most I get from him is ~6 silver per event (8-10 loot drops).

For guardian just GS spin spin spin for ~20-30 silver per event (30-50 loot drops).

The problem I find with BFrenzy is that u are rooted, and don’t damage sufficiently to tag sometimes compared to how fast mobs are killed.

How much silver/drops do you make per event on your mesmer?

*silver does not include sale of rare materials on TP, just pure vendoring

**done over 30 days worth of farming and comparison with various make up of players in the vacinity of the events…simply put, the more aoe’rs around, the harder it is for the mesmer.

Eh respawn rates at the high end are fast even for the quickest of classes. That window of opportunity is just that small period.

And again I stress: in-game economy MUST be balanced for all professions.

Ok, then to demoralize you right away:
In-game economy will never be balanced for all classes. Whether Mesmers are the worst at farming or tomorrow farm thrice as fast as anyone else is irrelevant to the point, you will not – ever – get equal farming speed between classes.

As perfect balance is not possible in RPGs, and there always being plenty things needing tweaking which have larger issues than %-differences in farming speed, there is no use “wasting” dev time on something which needs a lot of time and lots and lots of iterations (and, if we are to help with it, QA before releasing the patch to us) for something providing a – comparatively – marginal effect.

Now ofc, you might not like your money worries being declared “marginal” an issue. Still, it helps to simply accept that RPGs cannot truly be balanced. Because so far no one has managed. So ofc it miiiight be possible, but empiric evidence tells us it isn’t.

Cant’s say exactly how much I make on an event, since loots are random and DR sometimes kick in quite fast. But I’m definitely closer from 30 loots than 10.

I mainly use izerker to tag mobs, since it tags every mob it passes through. So it’s really about timing it well.

And to get back to the main point, yes, the Orr-spawn-rate can be annoying but I always thought it was intended to try make you group up. Independent of how easy it is to get through everything – because it is – it still makes it much more safer to go AFK and get a coffee or so if you have someone covering your back.

It makes Orr feel “more dangerous”.

Great Sword sort of sucks for PvE. Especially in Orr. Switch to Sword/Focus and you won’t have any problems killing things quickly or tagging mobs in DE’s.

But mesmer aside I absolutely agree that the respawn rate in Orr is absolutely stupid and needs to be adjusted. It is actually too fast for most of the zones but Orr is particularly bad.

There really is no point sprouting rubbish about how bad a mesmer is at tagging/killing mobs quickly. Mesmers tag fine and kill just fine. Change your builds to a farming spec. The devs can disprove your claims anytime by testing them, so creating a storm in a useless thread like this about how terrible mesmers are at farming/tagging/killing with a poor choice of spec/gear just clouds the forums with more crap. You would be better off starting and generating threads such as “What are the best strategies to farm pve mobs/events as a mesmer” and sharing your collective knowledge. Or you can continue to hit your heads against brick walls crying because you are too stubborn to adapt.

Alright then, what are the best strategies to farm pve mobs/events as a mesmer, because large AoE damage (we’re talking Cluster bomb levels) just seems impossible for me to achieve.

Put 30 points into Illusions, get Illusionary Persona), run into groups of mobs and Shatter yourself with F1 and F2.

Also put Blink on your Utility Bar, because people with passive run speed buffs will be getting to the spawn points faster than you.

So one AoE on a 15 second cool down is the same as Granade Spam or spinning Heavy armour classes now?

And teleporting a small distance every 30 seconds is the same as constantly running faster?

I don’t know what problems people have with Mesmer being buffed up to be as good as all the other classes in PvE but they need to get over it.

It is definitely not the same, but it will at least tag the mobs so you get loot. What I posted works for DE farming, but does little for solo PVE.

Without Illustionary Persona, I’ve done a many DEs where I got almost nothing for participating. Mobs were getting killed before I could drop an Illusion and have them run 5 yards to Shatter. Or if I was going with Chaos Storm, it wouldn’t have time to damage the mobs enough for me to get credit on the kill.

I was just going after Champions and Veterans so I would get something from doing the DE while other people are getting loot from groups of 8+ mobs at each spawn point.

Lol the only ISSUE I have with Mes is that tagging mobs is a pain. The only thing I haven’t tried is using MH sword, which was recommended by a few. But on any event where it’s just an aoe fest, it’s really hard to get anything as Mes, unless some of the aoe’rs mess up, and your phant actually gets a chance to have it’s attack go off before a mob dies to end his duratoin.

Levetty, when offered a solution, the wrong reaction is to then whine about that, too.

Ocellaris.8362:

Put 30 points into Illusions, get Illusionary Persona), run into groups of mobs and Shatter yourself with F1 and F2.

You kidding? The DE mobs are dead before you can get one of your shatters to run all the way into a group of mobs and explode.

Clearly the guy above has not played a mesmer, or maybe played it to level 15.

You kidding? The DE mobs are dead before you can get one of your shatters to run all the way into a group of mobs and explode.

Clearly the guy above has not played a mesmer, or maybe played it to level 15.

Illusionary Persona lets you Shatter YOURSELF. It works without any Illusions out.

Looks like there is only one person in this thread who hasn’t played a Mesmer before *cough*lollie*cough*

As for running my squishy kitten into groups of mobs, it’s the same thing as sending in an illusion – DE mobs are DEAD before we can get there. Guessing you play on Devona’s Rest with the other 3 people doing DEs?

Carighan.6758:

Levetty, when offered a solution, the wrong reaction is to then whine about that, too.

Well it isn’t a solution so…

Get berserker gear, greatsword, sigil of fire.
Works charm for me at least.

reroll already.
Good God, reroll your class and stay away from a class that’s too complicated for you. If you need 30 seconds to kill a mob.

Good God,
reroll already.

I agree with Mephisto here, if you’re taking 30+ seconds to kill a mob then that’s not a balance issue. That’s you. At least pick a class suited for low-reaction play, there’s inherently nothing wrong with that (e.g.: in TF2, you can play Engineer, Medic, Pyro or Heavy if you’re aiming is no good, and be an extremely viable party member – if your reactions are bad, you can play Engineer or Spy and contribute a lot). Just don’t try to play a class which just simply doesn’t work out for you, there’s no shame in admitting that.

Problem really comes down to:
You’re noticing “This doesn’t work”. You then from there extrapolate “What’s wrong with it?!”.
Correct question is: “What’s wrong with me?”

That would be a valid answer for any other region, but Orr regions in particular are special. So the crappy player claim is more of a wash.

Ocellaris.8362:

You kidding? The DE mobs are dead before you can get one of your shatters to run all the way into a group of mobs and explode.

Clearly the guy above has not played a mesmer, or maybe played it to level 15.

Illusionary Persona lets you Shatter YOURSELF. It works without any Illusions out.

Looks like there is only one person in this thread who hasn’t played a Mesmer before *cough*lollie*cough*

Shattering yourself only counts as one clone, doesn’t it? A single shatter is relatively pathetic, in all respects. It’s great in PvP when a Thief jumps you so you can just use Distortion and block out most of his burst for the next second, but in PvE? Lackluster at best.

Shattering yourself only counts as one clone, doesn’t it? A single shatter is relatively pathetic, in all respects. It’s great in PvP when a Thief jumps you so you can just use Distortion and block out most of his burst for the next second, but in PvE? Lackluster at best.

This post is mostly about tagging mobs while Orr farming, not about sustained DPS.

Ignoring the Orr DE tangent,

1. Not all players running through Orr are leveling in blues, greens, and yellows. You could easily be seeing a full exotic berserker Guardian faceplanting mobs.

I drop mobs in seconds using full berserker exotic with a burst build on a Mesmer. Snow Troll? 4 seconds. Most Orr trash? Similar. Skelks? 2 seconds. Depends on crits though.

2. If you’re using a sustained DPS build, don’t expect to kill as quickly. Be sure to use a direct damage / burstier build if you expect to kill things quickly.

Edit:

That made me test comparatively my 80 exotic guardian Vs 80 exotic thief Vs 80 exotic mesmer how long it takes to kill one mob, move on to the next mob and kill that one outside Meddler’s Wapoint:
Guardian: 16-20 seconds
Thief: 20-26 seconds
Mesmer: 28-32 seconds

Ok, no offense, but you’re probably bad. Full exotic 80? Like I said, takes me ~3-5 seconds. Considering a glass cannon Thief can unload 35k damage on me in WvW within 0.75 seconds, I seriously doubt they take 20-26 seconds to kill two mobs.

Mesmer definitely has challenges mob-tagging in DEs. I know some folks are saying it’s “easy” but I don’t think they’re being completely honest. Examples:

1. iBerserker sometimes won’t spawn because the target mob dies before the skill induction is finished.
2. Chaos storm often fails to tag mobs because it doesn’t build up sufficient damage. Also chaos storm has a long c/d so it’s not reliable after the first wave.
3. Shatters require you to have some clones on hand first (same issue with c/d’s and target dying) — yes you can use self-shatter but only for a build that’s 30 points down the mesmer line.

Yes it’s possible, but it’s not as easy as other professions. It’s really my main complaint with PvE mesmer.

Want easy-mode? Try a guardian with staff auto-attack. It’s a mob tagging machine with zero effort and high reliability.

1. iBerserker sometimes won’t spawn because the target mob dies before the skill induction is finished.

Bind a hotkey for “Target Nearest” and spam it. You can target mobs before they fade in and hit iB immediately. In almost all cases, spin will go off. There’s only 1 DE I’ve been unable to use iB, and that was because the mobs didn’t “spawn in”, they ran in invulnerable, and I do not camp those long enough to know exactly when they become vulnerable.

3. Shatters require you to have some clones on hand first (same issue with c/d’s and target dying) — yes you can use self-shatter but only for a build that’s 30 points down the mesmer line.

Don’t complain. The tool is there. Use it.

EasymodeX.4062

Don’t complain. The tool is there. Use it.

Oh I can complain because other professions have the “tool” for free — no traits required (Guardian Staff auto-attack)

juno.1840:

EasymodeX.4062

Don’t complain. The tool is there. Use it.

Oh I can complain because other professions have the “tool” for free — no traits required (Guardian Staff auto-attack)

1h sword can tag several mobs for free.

So can Staff WOC!

Staff is horrible for multiple mob tagging. Your choices are:

1. Bouncing autoattack which takes 1.5 seconds to fire each shot — damage is very low to accomodate for condition stacks. Generally poor tagger because mobs die before they are hit or before they accrue sufficient damage for a tag.

2. Staff 2 for an instant clone followed by F1/F2 for a shatter. This is how I generally tag the mobs since you can execute the F1/F2 press before the target dies. Not 100% reliable because the clone runs to the mobs position at time of F1/F2 press and there may or may not be any mobs left alive or in that location.

3. Staff 5 – Chaos storm which is a weak tagger with a long cooldown.

It doesn’t compare to any other AoE in the game (melee or not).

Sword is the best idea I’ve heard mentioned so far — that would be reliable and fast. Downsides are (a) only three mobs tagged per swing, and (b) delayed in order to get into melee range as opposed to firing off an AoE at 1200m range.

In conclusion, I understand that we have some “options” for DE mob tagging. The point that I’m making (and that many other frustrated PvE mesmers have made) is that the options are mediocre at best — so stop putting lipstick on the pig!

Staff is horrible for multiple mob tagging.

Of course it is. However, it can tag several mobs for free.

As before, go spec IP and succeed, or do not and fail.

Do or do not, there is no cry.

In conclusion, I understand that we have some “options” for DE mob tagging. The point that I’m making (and that many other frustrated PvE mesmers have made) is that the options are mediocre at best — so stop putting lipstick on the pig!

1. Mesmers are inferior to the “top 3” at Orr DE.

2. Other classes are in the same boat as the Mesmer of being outclassed at Orr DE.

3. There are several key tools for the Mesmer that make them “ok” at Orr DE. Most complainers refuse to use them.

4. IP Shatter is the fastest AOE in the game, tied with traps/mines.

EasymodeX.4062:

2. Other classes are in the same boat as the Mesmer of being outclassed at Orr DE.

No, they’re not.

1. Mesmers are inferior to the “top 3” at Orr DE.

?_?

I admit I had trouble at first in Orr with regard to tagging mobs in events. I retraited a few times and tried a few different weapon sets/swaps. Finally I found a 30 Illusions build that allows me to tag and bag with relative ease.

I say relative because it is still arguably more work than other classes, but that doesn’t mean we can’t do it. It just requires more button dancing and to be a little quicker on the spawn than others.

I put 10 into Domination for the 20% Mind Wrack damage, 20 into dueling for the clone on dodge and 30 into illusions for Illusionary Persona. The past couple weeks I’ve been grinding the penitent/shelter’s gate camps on and off and get gobs of loot from the events there.

Typically I do this: Camp the spawn (spider spawn at shelter’s gate for example) because you sadly need to do that so you can get to the mobs before the legion of bots tags everything first. shakes fist Then I drop Chaos Storm -> dodge into the mob group -> Mind Wrack -> Phase Retreat out to the front of the mobs -> CoF. Then I just autoattack until they’re all dead. If Chaos storm is on cooldown, I knockback the spawn with greatsword and drop an iBerserker into the mix. Then maybe a GS #3 and a GS#2 and a Mind Wrack/CoF with a dodge.

So yes, it takes more work than another class and a lot more keyboard tango, but it’s very effective and doable. Learning the spawns and learning my “rotations” (for lack of a better term) took some time but I’m easily looting from a majority of the spawn groups now.

It also means that if you prefer a phantasm/single target build for your mesmer, you’ll be frustrated to have to learn a IP/Shatter build, but IP/Shatter/Staff/Greatsword allows us to utilize all of our AoE abilities effectively so that we can be incredibly viable in DE zerg situations.

I realize arguments against this will run along the lines of “Well we shouldn’t have to do this or shouldn’t have to pigeonhole ourselves into this build to be DE viable.” And I agree that it sucks to be pushed into one genre of builds to be competitive in the AoE/Zerg spam that is GW2’s dynamic events (especially in Orr). And I’m not here to argue that point. All I’m offering is advice on how to be competitive and viable using the tools that we have at our disposal.

Maybe we’ll see a change down the road. Until then, Good luck!

In regards to node farming in Orr, the mesmer’s strength in this comes from completely avoiding mobs with Blink or Veil, and using clone generating utility skills like Decoy to create distractions while you work on a node. When I’m just looking to get ori ore or ancient logs, I do zero fighting and typically do a run in about 10 to 12 minutes without waypointing.

As for DE group events, I put as much into burst damage as possible utilizing the dmg % increase per mantra trait with a GS. The amount of damage and correct placement of iBerserker manages to tag quite nicely.

Positioning is also very important. In a lot of events, mobs are spawned outside an area and run to where the players are camping. Since mesmers are heavily reliant on targeting for their phantasms, you have to be behind where the mobs will spawn and not with everyone else. This helps give you sight of mobs earlier then most players, since mob rendering is delayed a bit when you’re with a large group of people.