Guild Wars 2

For WvW. Sorry for the long post.

I was hoping to get some insight on how to roam better on my mesmer. In short, I’m just confused as to what I need to do – how to initiate, what to shatter when, etc. I have no idea what I’m doing.

Here’s what usually happens:
- Spot an enemy. Bonus if he’s alone. Drop entry portal (for fast gtfo)
- iWarden on the guy, then focus 4 in front of warden.
- Pull the guy to warden, dodge, then sword clone and burst combo with Sword 2 and F1 shatter.
- kite around with staff and try not to die for the next 20 seconds so I can try it again.
- portal out if I can.
- Die to burst or run away; no kill either way

Thieves are especially troublesome. I played a thief initially in wvw (because stealth, so easy to run away) so I know all the D/D, D/P, and S/D tricks. I feel like knowing the thief combo doesn’t help because after avoiding the initial burst, it’s back to 7k stabby-stabby after 3 seconds. (I linked my thief build below. D/P seems to be the meta and I wouldn’t be surprised if all the thieves I meet are running that. That burst…and survivability…)

Not a thief QQ post. Obviously the good mesmers snack on thieves (I’ve seen the videos). What can I do/change to be one of those mesmers, in addition to just more practise? i.e. change weapon types, change equipment, etc? Open to all suggestions! I just want to roam on my mesmer without going 0/10 and getting frustrated back to EB zerging.

Build:
I am using Osicat’s Shatter Cat Mist build, or something similar (may not have the exact type of gear. Major difference is 20 in domination instead of Chaos).

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.0|6.1g.0|c.0.0.d.0.0|1n.71a.1g.71a.1n.71a.1g.71a.1n.71a.1g.71a|2s.0.2v.0.21j.0.2v.0.1n.67.1i.67|k17.k4a.0.0.u36b|16.2|33.34.3d.3a.3q|e

Sighs thieves:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1g.0.a.1g.0|c.1g.0.8.1g.0|1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1.1p.a1|2v.0.2v.0.3v.0.1n.61.1n.61.2v.0|0.u13c.k45.k39.0|3a.2|59.5a.5c.5b.0|e

No one answered this question >: That makes me a little sad. Anyway I am going to try to answer it myself. Keep in mind I am no Chaos or Osicat or someone. Just a fan of Mesmer and a fan of Roaming.

1.) I love the weapon set up. I found the Staff a much harder weapon to learn than GS but so much more rewarding in the PK stuffs.
2.) Go to Ether feast for heals. It heals more and since Mesmer is all about the clones one way or another you get even MORE heals on top of it. We are talking up to 3.some odd k more heals (Yes that is totally a number shush). Time portal is nice but it almost sounds you are solo roaming and in that case…Mass Invis in the Final slot might benefit you more both for setting up the engagement OR disengaging a bad situation.

3.) And this is huge bias on my end but…get rid of Portal. I refuse to use portal on any build I have on a Mesmer. Absolutely refuse. In mass zerging everyone wants to use you us a portal ho which is a waste of the class and a waste of my time. Mesmers can be so much more than that. in small scale you set it up before you go into the fight and you do not feel like you are ‘all in’ since you have that safety net…and a lack of a utility slot to use. I suggest replacing with Null field in this condition heavy meta. It has saved me on multiple occasions.

-condition% food. I refuse to leave home without it. Stuff is a life saver!

I actually find myself opening with staff and switching to sword/focus to be honest. staff 3 has a HUGE potential for damage from the mid range as well as buffing you before you close the gap into the important shatter + sword3 + sword 2 combo.

anyway these are just suggestions ^^ run with them for a bit. You might be surprised. At this point I feel comfortable running full zerker and all in against my opponents. trial and error and a lot deaths helped to get to thaat point along the way. Mesmer is a tougher class than most imo…but the most rewarding. SO much fun to burst down with a shatter and close in with sword2 and finish the job up close and personal in a robe class.

Try using the greatsword instead.

The thing is, sword/focus arent bad weapons, but its not roaming weapons. Its zerg weapons. When you engage in 1v1, the focus is poor (though it somewhat redeems itself if the enemy happen to be ranged only and you traited reflection) and the sword is too easy to avoid. Once the enemy move out of range of the sword (not to mention iWarden), you will completely lack pressure. And winning a 1v1 battle is all about pressure. When you have pressure, the enemy go on the defense. When they are on the defense, its easy to see and exploit their mistakes.

Judging by the build you posted you dont even have traited focus, which basicly make it worthless. Hell, you got the build ready for a traited greatsword instead!

Combine the sword/focus with a staff (untraited as well, what are you thinking?!?) and you basicly got no pressure at all. Unless the enemy happen to be an idiot with a melee weapon.

Regarding thieves, there’s only one decent way to handle their initial attack – toughness and vitality. Survivability traits dont hurt either. Your build is weak on all parts, so you have to use your own burst to counter theirs – which you dont have either due to the weapon choices, lol.

I understand why you have problems. A quick tip with the equipment you got – dont engage with the sword/focus first. Always engage with the staff. It doesnt matter what other weapon combo you have, the staff is an opener. Bursting an enemy first then starting to kite with staff… well that is pointless. He’ll just heal and then you’ll have fun farting at him with your flimsy staff. You want to use the staff to pop armor, the warlock, and storm, pop away with 2, shatter and then swap your weapons to burst him.

Hi Yams – I play with very different weapons, but I have a lot of fun roaming and soloing camps, so this build might be good for you.

http://bit.ly/1e71SAv

If I was making this right now, I would pick Travelers runes over Divinity (it would be easier to run people down or run away).

This build is pretty easy to play. The goal is to summon both phantasms and then stealth.

If you get jumped by a thief, block with scepter 2 and hit Decoy. Then your goal is to get the Duelist and the Berserker phantasms out. Then you just stand by the phantasms, if the thief unstealths near you, it will go poorly for him.

I hated thiefs before but now they’re kind of fun to fight. I also hated mesmers, that’s why I play one now, but that’s another story.

Anyway, as Dawdler said, you gotta get your toughness up and drop the focus, get a pistol or a sword with decent phantasms.

Thieves are quite fragile and don’t like to hang around, they want to burst you down and gtfo. With toughness, reflexes and some hide and seek you’ll be ok. Doing the block with scepter to avoid a thiefs initial hit is hard I think, just take the hit in the face like a mesmer and hit back. A bit like Rocky vs Drago but Drago is stealthed and got knifes and kitten.

this is how I do it: If I know there is a thief around I just wait for their initial attack, and slam Staff #2 asap. Then I get my phantasms up as fast as I can while I’m dodging his attacks, he will disappear pretty soon and build up for a new attack cycle but in the next cycle hopefully two of my phantasms will be standing there waiting for him (I try to drop the phantasms far from each other if possible, try to make a circle and put myself as a bait in the middle). In the next cycle I try to snare him or stun with the stun signet or pistol #5.

Also what I’ve learned recently in general when playing a mesmer is to retreat, get the phantasms up, sneak out and hide behind something, then back in, move around A LOT, far away, back in. I run a 20/20/30/0/0 and with 2 stealths and high toughness I can troll them around pretty good. It is still a hard fight where i probably do 50/50 in wins but it is a fight not just a burst->dead.

My build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsaWlwzipXUzgGZ9IipHEXvBckUoalWJF42FC-jkCBYLBE3BiWGkIBiKBI5pIasVMFRjVtATViIq2boIa1CBUeBA-w

I change it around all the time and switch weapons too, sometimes it’s sw/p & GS

Greatsword will get you killed if you use it outside of a zerg.

nearlight.3064:

Greatsword will get you killed if you use it outside of a zerg.

Lulwat?

You have to eloborate on that. The greatsword is the best burst weapon a Mesmer has and the only long range weapon with pressure (ie consistent high damage attacks). Its excellent at nailing runners, ie half the work when solo. Incidently its also one of the best weapons against roaming thieves that love to pop their stupid house. Is it an ideal weapon in any situation? Certainly not, the other has their uses. But it wont get you killed just because its a greatsword. People dying with a greatsword will die just as good with a scepter or sword.

I’m using a 20/20/30/0/0 build like eldenbri except for the weapons, few traits and the armour. But essentially the play style is similar taking advantage of one of the best talent around which is arguabily PU. Stealth and phanstasms are you best friend. And considering the current meta state I advise you to pick up the torch, trait it and learn to use it. This, with decoy and mass inv will give you plenty of boons each time you hide. It will help you surviving while you learn the class. After that it’s up to you which way to go.

Vs classes who can stealth. You should stealth as well cuontering theirs if possible. It’s not the only tactic but it works. Stealthing can be a defensive action, the most obvious one actually. When facing defeate it feels natural but it is an offensive one too if used right.

When starting a fight I immediately use either decoy, so the opponent doesn’t have a reference point or signet of might. The stun 1200 range, allow me to close in, cast pistol #4 and #5 easily and then following it with the usual sword combo. That is enough to start putting quite a lot of pressure. Now the fight starts (but you already have the iDuelist out and munched on his Hps a bit) and depending on who you are facing, you can either stay close for few auto attacks or switching to torch #4, go behind him to further disorient him and use scepter # 3 until the fire blast from torch hits. This chain should be done by dodging every now and then, to help you getting the position you want, even if ther is nothing to dodge. This will kill your clones applying cripple (domination V) and conditions (chaos V). Don’t hesitate to use torch #5 too even if you have no conditions on you: you will soon switch to the other set so you might as well cast it for the boons it gives (at this stage you only have one phantasm out so the poor iMage will not replace any good phantasm). Once you get back to sword pistol it’s bursting time again. You should have either decoy or stun from signet ready (depending which one you used at the beginning of the fight). Use it now: if decoy is available it’s better since casting the first chain will be easier from stealthed. If you manage to land the stun instead all is good. If this fails (immune for example, or you are blinded) use mass inv to regain the upper hand.

These chains are great because they always let you have a trick up your sleeve and tbh I thought of this build to be a bit OP sometimes. It’s doesn’t have the highest dps output but it drives ppl crazy. I had ppl who were just defeated wispering me because they said the class is broken, is OP and bla bla bla. It works great eaither with berserker, rampager and I heard Osi using it with rabid but I’m not too convinced of it. It also works with knight for extra survival but once you know what to do I tell you… all that thoughness becomes redundant and you just want more fire power. The little buff PU received was great, let me tell ya.

And I have to say that when I see someone using GS it makes me a happy mesmer. I haven’t so far lost vs one of them, either be s/t/pvp or wvw unless they catch me fighting with someone else and I am already 50%hp low. In a straight fight 1v1 they just cannot compete since closing up will kill their dps and both torch (and all those stealth options+stun) and sword just let you do that, catching them from behind where Illusionary wave cannot do anyhing.

Dawdler.8521:

nearlight.3064:

Greatsword will get you killed if you use it outside of a zerg.

Lulwat?

You have to eloborate on that. The greatsword is the best burst weapon a Mesmer has and the only long range weapon with pressure (ie consistent high damage attacks). Its excellent at nailing runners, ie half the work when solo. Incidently its also one of the best weapons against roaming thieves that love to pop their stupid house. Is it an ideal weapon in any situation? Certainly not, the other has their uses. But it wont get you killed just because its a greatsword. People dying with a greatsword will die just as good with a scepter or sword.

From an offensive point of view I see your point, but if you get jumped using a greatsword instead of staff, or (scepter/torch or sword/x), you have little active defense other than the #5 knockback, which is on too long of a cooldown to do much good. Then you’re forced to swap too sword since in melee range the autoattack is garbage, and #2 is pointless, #3 is almost a joke with how it roots you. It is a very strong phantasm, I’ll give you that.

Sword/pistol or focus even is a far greater and more useful burst weapon than GS in both shatter and phantasm specs, and the evade frames are very strong.

Staff, even in a power build is amazing for its fast clone generation. Phase retreating when you get jumped can port you out of an enemies burst very easily on a low cooldown. Lets not forget that thieves simply melt in chaos storm due to chill and interrupts, and is the same size as shadow refuge!

Lastly we have scepter/torch, which I use as a condition mesmer in pvp. Besides the block/torment spike, the stealth especially when traited is just very strong.

Sorry to sound rude or harsh but mesmer greatsword is only one step up from a longbow ranger, its only good for sniping when you have a mob around you that gives you the range you need to actually make use of it. Most classes will close the gap ASAP and fight melee or mid range. On my scepter/torch/staff condition build I’ve never lost to a mesmer using a GS.

@nearlight
Agreed.

Hey GS is nice though!

Berzerker just hits so kittening hard and it’s so nice to have a ranged weapon, I played a ranger before so maybe that’s why.

Another pro-GS argument is AOE, if you’re up against ONE opponent pistol is great, but when there are two maybe the GS starts to shine a little bit again. I’ve taken down two and even three opponents with a GS/staff build because it can put a lot of pressure on all of them thanks to berzerker. And in WvWvW you occasionally run into several opponents.

Also, the pistol phantasm makes a lot of noice, so he’s easy to block for opponents if they know what they’re doing, the zerker just hits like a silent train and when not active he just stands there looking weak, like the sword is too heavy to lift.

One of the great joys in life is to see a stressed thief stumbling out of a perfectly placed chaos field swearing, with 20% health and then TOOOT-TOOOT! there comes the 5-O-clock zerker train! I can almost hear them slam the keyboard shouting NEEEERF!!

Shtos Vant.4182:

@nearlight
Agreed.

I also agree on this when regarding 1v1, 1v2, or 2v2. Sword/Pistol combo outperforms GS in every way verse a single target. However, for group combat in wvw the GS actually has a decent place. Even in a small team of 4 or 5, the GS can be effective. iZerker cripples, iWave can disrupt rez or spikes, and iWave is an awesome first strike disruption CC to an initial engagement. If you’re team focuses fire well you don’t need an uber burst. Plus, sometimes your team might want to mingle with a zerg and take/defend a tower. If that’s the case you’ll just be sitting there doing very little if you don’t have a GS.

nearlight.3064:

From an offensive point of view I see your point, but if you get jumped using a greatsword instead of staff, or (scepter/torch or sword/x), you have little active defense other than the #5 knockback, which is on too long of a cooldown to do much good. Then you’re forced to swap too sword since in melee range the autoattack is garbage, and #2 is pointless, #3 is almost a joke with how it roots you. It is a very strong phantasm, I’ll give you that.

Sword/pistol or focus even is a far greater and more useful burst weapon than GS in both shatter and phantasm specs, and the evade frames are very strong.

Staff, even in a power build is amazing for its fast clone generation. Phase retreating when you get jumped can port you out of an enemies burst very easily on a low cooldown. Lets not forget that thieves simply melt in chaos storm due to chill and interrupts, and is the same size as shadow refuge!

Lastly we have scepter/torch, which I use as a condition mesmer in pvp. Besides the block/torment spike, the stealth especially when traited is just very strong.

Sorry to sound rude or harsh but mesmer greatsword is only one step up from a longbow ranger, its only good for sniping when you have a mob around you that gives you the range you need to actually make use of it. Most classes will close the gap ASAP and fight melee or mid range. On my scepter/torch/staff condition build I’ve never lost to a mesmer using a GS.

… And I was only ever arguing the greatsword from an offensive burst point of view (call it “sniping” if you want), not to mention I noted that you never open with it, you use something with quick evasive skills like the staff when running about.

Also, conditions. OP in a world of berserkers without any condition removal. We know that. The thread poster is clearly not a condition user since he’s berserker with a touch of toughness. Different builds, different weapons and tactics. I dont recommend a scepter/torch for a build that’s based on burst. With scepter/torch you’d probably get pummeled by a condition Mesmer just as fast if it was a greatsword

Just watch vids

http://www.youtube.com/user/Butonfly

There are lots of mesmer tricks to learn, but they’ll come with practive. Watch other mesmers and you’ll get loads of ideas.

Dawdler.8521:

nearlight.3064:

From an offensive point of view I see your point, but if you get jumped using a greatsword instead of staff, or (scepter/torch or sword/x), you have little active defense other than the #5 knockback, which is on too long of a cooldown to do much good. Then you’re forced to swap too sword since in melee range the autoattack is garbage, and #2 is pointless, #3 is almost a joke with how it roots you. It is a very strong phantasm, I’ll give you that.

Sword/pistol or focus even is a far greater and more useful burst weapon than GS in both shatter and phantasm specs, and the evade frames are very strong.

Staff, even in a power build is amazing for its fast clone generation. Phase retreating when you get jumped can port you out of an enemies burst very easily on a low cooldown. Lets not forget that thieves simply melt in chaos storm due to chill and interrupts, and is the same size as shadow refuge!

Lastly we have scepter/torch, which I use as a condition mesmer in pvp. Besides the block/torment spike, the stealth especially when traited is just very strong.

Sorry to sound rude or harsh but mesmer greatsword is only one step up from a longbow ranger, its only good for sniping when you have a mob around you that gives you the range you need to actually make use of it. Most classes will close the gap ASAP and fight melee or mid range. On my scepter/torch/staff condition build I’ve never lost to a mesmer using a GS.

… And I was only ever arguing the greatsword from an offensive burst point of view (call it “sniping” if you want), not to mention I noted that you never open with it, you use something with quick evasive skills like the staff when running about.

Also, conditions. OP in a world of berserkers without any condition removal. We know that. The thread poster is clearly not a condition user since he’s berserker with a touch of toughness. Different builds, different weapons and tactics. I dont recommend a scepter/torch for a build that’s based on burst. With scepter/torch you’d probably get pummeled by a condition Mesmer just as fast if it was a greatsword

Condition damage or not let me make one thing clear for power mesmer builds. If you run a shatter build, staff and sword/focus/pistol is a far superior choice over GS due to its mobility and fast clone generation.

To be honest if you run a phantasm build, which is more of a pve/spvp thing due to being OP 1v1 and our best pve DPS (but not with GS in pve ironically), GS will probably work fine, as the phantasm is strong, but you’ll have to switch right away to use your 2nd phantasm and deal with the fact the enemy has probably gap closed by then. I’ll give it that niche use outside of the obvious zerg environment where anything can work really and range can be maintained.

Haha I didn’t read his build so I didn’t see his zerker disposition, and tbh zerker on anyclass, other than thief is way to squishy for wvw, especially roaming where you cant depend on others to soak up hits.

Also dawdler, not trying to sound rude but are you suggesting staff/GS on the same build at the same time? Because that idea will limit a mesmers effectiveness more than anything else as the two weapons don’t have a logical reason to work together. You’ll need a sword for shatter/phant or scpeter for condition on the other set for their melee defensive/burst capabilities. And yes scepter 2/3 is “condition burst”.

nearlight.3064:

Greatsword will get you killed if you use it outside of a zerg.

lately, GS related posts are so &%$# that it isn’t even funny… like wtf is this??? You must be trollin cuz if you aren’t, it shows you haven’t played mez much. Not only GS is strong everywhere but you seems to forget or ignore there’s more than one freaking weapon per class and the other set could be sword/pistol or whatever you want…

nearlight.3064:

Also dawdler, not trying to sound rude but are you suggesting staff/GS on the same build at the same time? Because that idea will limit a mesmers effectiveness more than anything else as the two weapons don’t have a logical reason to work together. You’ll need a sword for shatter/phant or scpeter for condition on the other set for their melee defensive/burst capabilities. And yes scepter 2/3 is “condition burst”.

Short answer: Yes.

I have played both PvE and WvW with a ton of different builds and my weapons of choice for both is greatsword/staff. Though sometimes I switch to sword/focus/staff in dungeons. I choose the greatsword along with the staff because it give me 100% ranged offensive power and contrary to what you say it would do, it increases my effectivness alot because they do work great together and I am always to put pressure on my opponent. I cant even begin to count how many times I “lost” small scale battles using a sword/focus simply because people ran away with low hp, only to come back full. The staff doesnt cut it – people simply run out of range of the auto-attack and iWarlock not to mention past chaos storm. With the greatsword its whambamthankyoumam. Sometimes you can get in decent whammos with the sword, but its so easy to avoid as its very well shown when its going to happen – not to mention iLeap being horribly bugged since release. In terms of damage, its about the same as iBerserker (only slower). So I weigh inyourface sword damage (albeit with some invounerability) against a max range berserker spin and well… For me the better option is obvious.

But hey if you dont like the greatsword, that’s fine. Just saying its a very simple weapon to increase your roaming strength if you find the sword lacking. I do miss my Firebringer and Ambrosia too at times, dual sigils ftw.

And before anyone ask why I dont say greatsword/sword/focus (which I would say is a full berserker setup), I find the staff too usefull in WvW. And I got Bifrost. Probably more to do with the latter.

I don’t think you can discount two things, for Greatsword when roaming. One 99% of the people start running at 10% i have no idea why. If i’m about to lose, i just keep on losing. But many run. And chasing someone with a staff can be painful. The snare on the zerker is a lifesaver. Also you suffer no retaliation on Izerker damage. In today’s environment where retaliation is stacked like crazy, this is a huge plus for me.

Well feel free to roam however you wish, its really cool that you have bifrost and I understand you’d want to show it off dawdler so go ahead, I just feel like 2 ranged weapons on one set is bad unless its condition damage focused hahaha.

While the cripple from izerker helps track targets down, I find that blink/sword leap combo is enough to track them, as is my offhand phantasm if its duelist haha. Unless they either dodge or are an x/D or D/P thief that can stealth indefinitely on its on or off your clones, in which close neither weapon would help track it down much better than any other.

I just feel like your own surviability is more important than chasing someone running away, and without staff you can be an easy target for most melee classes. And if youre outnumbered when roaming by yourself or with 1 or 2 others, the staff is even more important and useful their. One v One Greatsword can be strong, but one v ones as we all know aren’t always common.