Guild Wars 2

I’ve been testing out these two runes in WvW as a shatter build. As a shatter build a Mesmer has very limited ways to stack might so it has to rely on things like Superior Sigil of Battle, might on dodge food, might on crit, etc.

Even then, the most I would find I could stack my might up to was maybe around 18-20 stacks. Now this seems like it is really good, 18-20 stacks is like an extra 600-700 power. However, I have encountered some issues while running this rune.

#1: You need to devote foods, and sigils purely to might stacking, leaving you little flexibility
#2: The high might stacks you can possibly achieve is very unsustainable, even with increased might duration
#3: It takes a really long time to ramp up might stacks, like 20-30 seconds of active combat or so. I feel as a shatter mesmer the longer the fight goes, the bigger the disadvantage they are in because they lack sustainability.

However, with Runes of the Pack, it gives you an identical amount of power. Plus it gives you 125 precision. AND it gives you Fury, Might and Swiftness on pretty much a 50% uptime while in combat, to all allies as well.

Mesmers have very limited Fury and Swiftness generation, so this is perfect if you use a Focus or run with somebody who can give Swiftness. As a shatter build, because landing a shatter involves like 8 different individual hits all adding up to a huge burst, precision is really important and that 20% extra crit chance is huge.

Plus it is a way cheaper alternative to Runes of Strength which are like 15+ gold a piece.

However, that is not to say Runes of the Pack > Runes of Strength, as the title suggests, I think it is just better in different situations.

Runes of the Pack I feel are better if you like to solo or duo roam in WvW, and run a tankier version of a shatter build and as a result of that you lack some precision or power in general. The swiftness allows you to keep in combat mobility and perhaps out of combat mobility as well for better quality of gameplay. Or if you run with a team that isn’t so heavy on might stacking and boon sharing.

Runes of Strength I feel are better if running with a coordinated group who can dish out alot of boons and might for the party. The extra 7% damage, on top of really high might stacks just really makes your shatters more potent. It is also probably better (though arguable) if you run a glassier build with high power/precision. In that case, the fury becomes more of an added bonus rather than a key component of the build, although it is very possible to achieve 100% crit chance on your mind wracks.

Tell me what you guys think?

Whenever I use a focus, I always will use pack runes since they synergize so amazing with it. I use focus in almost all of my builds (except when im raiding or playing gs staff) so I honestly love them <3.

Pack runes are just average runes a bunch of people from good fights stocked up on heavily and then told everyone was good so that they could unload theirs.

maha.7902:

Pack runes are just average runes a bunch of people from good fights stocked up on heavily and then told everyone was good so that they could unload theirs.

You don’t really think everyone in WvW is running Runes of Strength because they are one of the top PvE dps rune sets and work well in sPvP?

Not everyone has perma fury in their WvW builds, we or I posted about pack because they are a good rune set for WvW builds which was in my post on reddit and the profession forums. Thief, Guard, and Mesmer can make good use of Pack in WvW especially roaming. Sure if your running a GS and standing close to mirror blade, running might on shatter strength looks better but if you aren’t and have low crit chance pack is definitely a good option.

Runes of the pack work well in sPvP in practice and do well mathematically too. People tend to forget that (averaged over a long period) that (up to the cap) 1% crit damage is worth more than 1% flat damage boost in a power build.

This isn’t to say that runes of strength are in anyway bad – they’re very good, just not the only option.

oZii.2864:

maha.7902:

Pack runes are just average runes a bunch of people from good fights stocked up on heavily and then told everyone was good so that they could unload theirs.

You don’t really think everyone in WvW is running Runes of Strength because they are one of the top PvE dps rune sets and work well in sPvP?

Not everyone has perma fury in their WvW builds, we or I posted about pack because they are a good rune set for WvW builds which was in my post on reddit and the profession forums. Thief, Guard, and Mesmer can make good use of Pack in WvW especially roaming. Sure if your running a GS and standing close to mirror blade, running might on shatter strength looks better but if you aren’t and have low crit chance pack is definitely a good option.

I saw the reddit thread and the guy made completely stupid assumptions for both rune sets to give a weak justification for pack runes. Then you all unloaded at the inflated price and made a nice profit.

You see, people recognise your guild name and get taken for suckers, but players with a few more brain cells realised that pack runes are still nothing special.

maha.7902:

oZii.2864:

maha.7902:

Pack runes are just average runes a bunch of people from good fights stocked up on heavily and then told everyone was good so that they could unload theirs.

You don’t really think everyone in WvW is running Runes of Strength because they are one of the top PvE dps rune sets and work well in sPvP?

Not everyone has perma fury in their WvW builds, we or I posted about pack because they are a good rune set for WvW builds which was in my post on reddit and the profession forums. Thief, Guard, and Mesmer can make good use of Pack in WvW especially roaming. Sure if your running a GS and standing close to mirror blade, running might on shatter strength looks better but if you aren’t and have low crit chance pack is definitely a good option.

I saw the reddit thread and the guy made completely stupid assumptions for both rune sets to give a weak justification for pack runes. Then you all unloaded at the inflated price and made a nice profit.

You see, people recognise your guild name and get taken for suckers, but players with a few more brain cells realised that pack runes are still nothing special.

Lol you sound like a hater.

In the title of the thread it says This is more sPvP/WvW Focused. You can run anything you like in WvW.

Also Wandelaars is a very well known poster on Reddit and not in Good Fights he said he unloaded 100 Runes of the pack at the inflated price. Wolfineer endorsed Runes of the Pack on his engineer build and I don’t know him personally.

If you read the thread and weren’t so I don’t know upset you would read about 3-4 people say they had been sitting on a lot of Runes of the Pack.

There are 530 Runes of the Pack on the TP you really think we dumped a lot?

Enlighten me though as to why Runes of the Pack wouldn’t be good on any popular Guardian, Thief, or Mesmer WvW build?

You do know that I am the only person from my guild that really even posts/reads reddit? I also don’t flaunt my guild tag as some right of passage.

I don’t put my guild tag in the topics unlike DnT. Everyone follows DnT for PvE on reddit after Nike posted about Strength runes that made the price shoot up about 8 gold. I like Nike and DnT I pm’d Grouch for Dekeyz sticky in the Ele forums, but you seem bothered by my honest post.

See my other reddit posts.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1t0e88/psa_superior_rune_of_strength_fixedtested/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1t2jr5/psarune_of_rage_66_10_crit_dmgbugged/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1jtdd2/psa_new_superior_rune_of_perplexity_is_bugged/

Here is my whole submitted since your a fan: http://www.reddit.com/user/oZiix/submitted/

Obviously I went a entire year and conspired to cause the runes to rise in price. My PSA about fixed and bugged runes was to gain reddit confidence for over a year and then boom one fell swoop I cashed in. Lol.

As much as I love Reddit and reading it you can’t talk about 1 rune or sigil without people thinking your trying to pump and dump.

The practical uses are there, both fury and swiftness are valuable boons to mesmers in PvP and WvW. I don’t see why someone want to dismiss it simply because someone else wants to unload “at an inflated price and make a nice profit.” It is your freedom to assume the motives behind these posters, but what these posters intended has nothing to do with the uses in Rune of Pack.

I heard some PvE’ers are talking kitten about Pack Runes?

maha.7902:

I saw the reddit thread and the guy made completely stupid assumptions for both rune sets to give a weak justification for pack runes. Then you all unloaded at the inflated price and made a nice profit.

You see, people recognise your guild name and get taken for suckers, but players with a few more brain cells realised that pack runes are still nothing special.

Pack Runes give extremely good raw stats, and give Mesmers 50%+ uptime of two boons they don’t easily get otherwise, and you think that’s weak justification? I won’t bother going into detail as to why being able to give up traits on other classes that were mainstays for swiftness/fury for other options is good, since I’m sure you’re coming from the viewpoint that everyone in PvP has Spotter/Banner of discipline/perma fury and swiftness is useless since it doesn’t increase DPS.

Just go back to 100 Bladesing NPCS and leave PvP to people who know what they’re talking about.

Obviously I went a entire year and conspired to cause the runes to rise in price. My PSA about fixed and bugged runes was to gain reddit confidence for over a year and then boom one fell swoop I cashed in. Lol.

“Guys look, strength runes are expensive so get these cheap ones instead”. Price spike ensues, unload. That’s like TP flipping 101, mention something which is functionally similar to something which is expensive but have a ton of it yourself so you can unload when everyone scrambles for them. You say as if waiting a year to unload is crazy, but people do it all the time.

And the assumption for strength runes were insanely stupid since who uses strength runes without some sort of way to gain might? You can just run battle sigils – you maintain perma-9 just from in-combat weapon swapping. Then factor in mirror blade and if for whatever reason you used strength sigils as well that’s like perma-16+ might. Two might my backside.

Look:

Pack runes are particularly attractive to Mesmers, whose phantasms don’t benefit from might stacks

Wrong.

phantasms do benefit from the base 5.95% critical chance and 175 power from the runes though, and Mesmers always appreciate swiftness.

…and they are affected by the 175 power from strength runes too?

Pack Runes give extremely good raw stats, and give Mesmers 50%+ uptime of two boons they don’t easily get otherwise, and you think that’s weak justification?

The whole point of strength runes is the crazy might uptime which has no comparison. When I said “weak justification” I was on about the completely moronic assumptions made in the reddit post. “two stacks of might” lmfao.

since I’m sure you’re coming from the viewpoint that everyone in PvP has Spotter/Banner of discipline/perma fury and swiftness is useless since it doesn’t increase DPS.
Just go back to 100 Bladesing NPCS and leave PvP to people who know what they’re talking about.

Do you think we haven’t heard that crap from basically every single group we team Q against? Do you think you’re cool or original for saying that?

How about you go back to exploiting signet bugs and losing tournaments. Because you see, we can actually perform well in our game mode without underhanded tactics.

Alot of accusations in your post which can easily be pointed right back at DnT. “Hey buy some Strength Runes before I post this video. You know every time we recommend something the price goes up” example seaweed salad, strength runes, truffle steak, etc…..

I am not saying that is what DnT did because I don’t have some DnT grudge and like Nike watch his stream occasionally, and messaged Grouch for Dekeyz sticky when Nike said Dekeyz deserves a sticky when I mentioned it in his strem. This would be easy to point the finger for Strength and say DnT loaded up prior to Nike’s video.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2356rc/dnt_dps_warrior_guide_for_dungeons_and_fractals/ Puts the post around 4/17

http://www.gw2tp.com/item/24714-superior-rune-of-strength check the price and stock prior to 17 April and after 17 April.

Again, I am not saying this is what DnT does just that it is easy to try and frame something as underhanded unless you have direct knowledge of a conversation taking place with evidence.

Feels like you have some underlying feelings toward us and are using this as a platform to vent. We can talk this out in game and you can vent just PM and I’ll listen so you can move on.

To add how do you make gold from s/tPvP by pumping a Rune?

Not gonna bother quoting your book to save space. The benefit you get from Strength runes is the 45% might duration and 7% damage modifier. The damage multiplier doesn’t apply to my phantasms so it is effectively worthless for any build that isn’t shatter. Therefore the only benefit you get from Strength runes is the +45% might duration. My only sources of might in a non shatter build is mirror blade and winds of chaos. That means I’m getting 4.5 extra seconds of might from mirror blade and 2.25 seconds of might from winds of chaos. That’s borderline worthless. I would rather have 16% crit chance and 65% swiftness uptime over that any day.

I don’t get why people have this weird fascination with might stacking in pvp. This isn’t CoF P1 speed runs, there is a lot of counter-play to might stacking. a S/D thief will ruin you if stack too much might. Not to mention mesmers can very easily strip or steal it, and necros can corrupt it.

maha.7902:

How about you go back to exploiting signet bugs and losing tournaments. Because you see, we can actually perform well in our game mode without underhanded tactics.

Oh interesting. I’ll just leave this link here: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/12502927-exploit-discussion-what-to-know

Alot of accusations in your post which can easily be pointed right back at DnT. “Hey buy some Strength Runes before I post this video. You know every time we recommend something the price goes up” example seaweed salad, strength runes, truffle steak, etc…..

I am not saying that is what DnT did because I don’t have some DnT grudge and like Nike watch his stream occasionally, and messaged Grouch for Dekeyz sticky when Nike said Dekeyz deserves a sticky when I mentioned it in his strem. This would be easy to point the finger for Strength and say DnT loaded up prior to Nike’s video.

I’ll just save you the speculation and just tell you up front we speculated on strength runes because we felt they were going to be pretty legit.

Feels like you have some underlying feelings toward us and are using this as a platform to vent. We can talk this out in game and you can vent just PM and I’ll listen so you can move on.

No underlying feelings, it’s just seeing you all make a cheap buck and fools buying it all up, and it’s just sad to watch. A bit how elaborate totems spiked months ago even though there’s like zero demand despite what was already there (which was low – so speculators just inflating it).

To add how do you make gold from s/tPvP by pumping a Rune?

WvW’ers try to apply it to their builds, obviously.

Not gonna bother quoting your book to save space. The benefit you get from Strength runes is the 45% might duration and 7% damage modifier. The damage multiplier doesn’t apply to my phantasms so it is effectively worthless for any build that isn’t shatter.

and what if … you are shatter?

That means I’m getting 4.5 extra seconds of might from mirror blade and 2.25 seconds of might from winds of chaos. That’s borderline worthless. I would rather have 16% crit chance and 65% swiftness uptime over that any day.

so you basically maintain ~6 might from mirror blades yourself and then whatever other sources.

I don’t get why people have this weird fascination with might stacking in pvp. This isn’t CoF P1 speed runs, there is a lot of counter-play to might stacking. a S/D thief will ruin you if stack too much might. Not to mention mesmers can very easily strip or steal it, and necros can corrupt it.

lol, cof p1.

Oh interesting. I’ll just leave this link here: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/12502927-exploit-discussion-what-to-know

Yeah, we don’t mind hearing about exploits, but we aren’t going to use them ourselves since they’re prohibited in restricted world records (and we only do restricted). Unlike a certain guild which exploits in a pvp tournament.

maha.7902:

No underlying feelings, it’s just seeing you all make a cheap buck and fools buying it all up, and it’s just sad to watch. A bit how elaborate totems spiked months ago even though there’s like zero demand despite what was already there (which was low – so speculators just inflating it).

To add how do you make gold from s/tPvP by pumping a Rune?

WvW’ers try to apply it to their builds, obviously.

Then explain why Runes of the Pack are not a good Rune or as you put it “legit”.

I run 2/0/6/0/6 on my thief with Runes of the Pack for fury up time and synergy with thrill of the crime trait. I know other thieves that do the same. I rune 2/0/6/6/0 on my meditation guardian with pack runes because fury is hard to come by on a med guard unless you want to blow your meds with focused mind to get fury. Potato stated why he runs them on his Mesmer. You can make the case for elementalist not running Zephyr’s boon but needing fury and swiftness in WvW running a roaming spec.

It’s not like we said “Guys, try Rune of Citadel so you can bomb people”. Runes of Pack are “legit” as you put it.

The application of the Rune set and it’s benefits to s/tPvP and WvW builds is known. Saying it’s average because it’s not Strength is silly we are talking WvW and sPvP here not timed dps trials. That’s like saying Pre-Patch don’t run Lyssa because it’s not Scholar.

I don’t even know the OP of this thread I seen him post on the forums before, check the thief forums people mention pack runes, mentioned on guardian forums also I didn’t make those threads.

This is pointless anyway the Runes are good for WvW builds poster in here have stated as such and other profession forums agree. Just because it isn’t Strength doesn’t make it bad people trade damage for utility all the time otherwise nobody would run soldier runes, lyssa, hoelbrak, melandru or even traveler/speed. You are basically saying everyone not using strength is being a fool without giving any type of context as to why using pack makes you a fool.

I want to thank Sin Potato and Mahariel

This thread has not only become pseudo informative but entertaining as well.

Then explain why Runes of the Pack are not a good Rune or as you put it “legit”.
I run 2/0/6/0/6 on my thief with Runes of the Pack for fury up time and synergy with thrill of the crime trait. I know other thieves that do the same. I rune 2/0/6/6/0 on my meditation guardian with pack runes because fury is hard to come by on a med guard unless you want to blow your meds with focused mind to get fury. Potato stated why he runs them on his Mesmer. You can make the case for elementalist not running Zephyr’s boon but needing fury and swiftness in WvW running a roaming spec.
It’s not like we said “Guys, try Rune of Citadel so you can bomb people”. Runes of Pack are “legit” as you put it.

They’re not an alternative to strength runes. Your thread presents them as an alternate to strength runes with the hilariously bad effective power comparison. Strength runes have no comparison besides Hoelbrak, which sits quite rightfully at 5g.

The application of the Rune set and it’s benefits to s/tPvP and WvW builds is known. Saying it’s average because it’s not Strength is silly we are talking WvW and sPvP here not timed dps trials. That’s like saying Pre-Patch don’t run Lyssa because it’s not Scholar.

It’s actually not. Lyssa was used because extra precision was great but the condi-clear on elite was incredible for classes with few cleanses and/or low CD elites. Scholar is just a generic DPS rune you would use either in PvE or some thief gank build in WvW where you want to make someone explode in like a second.

This is pointless anyway the Runes are good for WvW builds poster in here have stated as such and other profession forums agree. Just because it isn’t Strength doesn’t make it bad people trade damage for utility all the time otherwise nobody would run soldier runes, lyssa, hoelbrak, melandru or even traveler/speed. You are basically saying everyone not using strength is being a fool without giving any type of context as to why using pack makes you a fool.

I’m saying it’s not an alternative. And it’s not. It’s just another DPS rune, but it shouldn’t be compared to strength so that people try to “jump on the next strength train” and buy it up, then realising it’s average.

I’ll leave this here.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alternative

Alternative : offering or expressing a choice <several alternative plans>
: different from the usual or conventional: as

maha.7902:

Pack runes are just average runes a bunch of people from good fights stocked up on heavily and then told everyone was good so that they could unload theirs.

Even if this is true, why do you care? Is it jealousy? Is it conflict for the sake of conflict? I’m really confused by this passive aggressive post. Whatever bee is in your bonnet needs to fly back to its hive and continue timing itself Fiery Rushing into walls.

This was a totally unnecessary post and the only conclusion I can come to is that you need an outlet for your rage that real life doesn’t provide.

Pipe down, honestly.

I’ll leave this here.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alternative
Alternative : offering or expressing a choice <several alternative plans>
: different from the usual or conventional: as

“In PvE you can use scholar runes or mesmer runes”.

Let’s not go down this slippery slope.

Even if this is true, why do you care? Is it jealousy? Is it conflict for the sake of conflict? I’m really confused by this passive aggressive post. Whatever bee is in your bonnet needs to fly back to its hive and continue timing itself Fiery Rushing into walls.

lol, the typical “go back to PvE” response. I don’t use FGS because I don’t like how overpowered it is, just for the record.

And why I care is because there’s enough misinformation being spread in this game, tricking people in to thinking Pack runes are even on the same level as strength so you can cash out is pathetic.

maha.7902:

And why I care is because there’s enough misinformation being spread in this game, tricking people in to thinking Pack runes are even on the same level as strength so you can cash out is pathetic.

What other misinformation?

Did it ever occur to you that not everyone is a min-maxing tryhard and were just sharing their ideas with the community? For all you know this poor OP whose thread has been high jacked by Mr Righteous never even saw the post you are continually squealing about.

Ok last things I’m going to say on this thread because talking to people who don’t know what they’re saying is always annoying.

1. The raw stats on Pack runes are better than Strength.

2. 65% swiftness uptime is VERY valuable to classes like mesmers.

3. Fury on specs with no access to fury is VERY valuable because not only does it make your EP go up, but it makes your hits more consistent as well. Not critting on crucial attacks like mind wrack can cost you a fight.

4. It gives both of these boons, plus a stack of might, to both yourself AND up to 4 allies around you. Two people can maintain permanent fury/swiftness on an entire party.

5. The 7% damage multiplier does not apply to phantasms, which is a very high percentage of mesmers damage, so it’s almost useless to me.

6. +45% might duration is not valuable to me when most of my might comes from mirror blade which is 10s base. Am I really using the extra 4.5 seconds of might? And no, battle sigils are essentially not an option for mesmers. Shatter mesmer has extremely strong burst damage but poor sustain. By the time you get to 9 stacks of might from weapon swapping, the fight will already be over, and probably not in your favor. Air sigils are a much better option because their DPS cannot be stripped and greatsword has a perfect auto attack for using them.

7. Why would I pay 90 gold for a glorified Scholar rune with slightly higher DPS? Pack costs 1/10 that and offers comparable DPS to specs with no fury, and significantly more group and solo utility even to specs with fury.

8. I don’t know how you can hilariously claim that Pack runes are miles behind Strength while Hoelbrak is comparable. Because it gives 30% might duration? I assume we can expect a DnT video about how Pirate and Fire runes are respectable alternatives then? I mean, they both give 10% might duartion! Hey, maybe even Noble runes can get in on it; they’re +45% might duration!

It makes sense now why you defend Strength so heavily since you admitted to stocking up on them before hyping the price up. I don’t know why though, since they are still an excellent rune for PvE and some PvP builds (I.E. D/D ele/Hambow). Trying to ride the train to 20g/rune or something?

And as far as bugs go, if you think PvP was some pure sanctuary with no bugs before ToL, then I think you should step out of Cursed Shore more. I can’t mention recent examples since ANET will delete my post, but do you think the now-patched bug where thieves could place a Black Powder, Whirling Axe in it, then leave the field but still have blinding bolts was some secret? No. Using that glitch was standard procedure.

You and a couple other people had one specific bug pointed out to them and now you can’t let it go as if it was something out of the norm. Arena Nets response time to bugs is atrocious, so at what point does a well known bug become acceptable to use?

But I’m sure DnT would never use Frost Spirits in dungeon speed runs.

EDIT:

“In PvE you can use scholar runes or mesmer runes”.

Let’s not go down this slippery slope.

Excellent strawman. PvE hero runes revolve around damage multipliers since it is already assumed that the party will have 100% critical chance and 25 stacks of might. I would hope you knew that, being in DnT and all, and wouldn’t make such a ridiculous example. I guess recruitment standards are slipping.

In PvP the power isn’t as high as strength. But 50% crit with an extra 20% (total 70%) and swiftness up 50% of the time is pretty nice. 3/4 of my clones crit on shatters. If we weren’t so overshadowed by thieves it feels great for semi roam. But strength is better imo for team fights.

PvE is meh I wouldn’t ever bother with these. The biggest benefit is from taking a hit, and I’d much more willingly eat and auto attack from a player than Lupi’s green back hand.

I don’t know enough about WvW to have any real basis to comment, but I’d imagine the swiftness would be nice but meh during Zerg trains. For skirmishes I question weather you can keep up with the tanky DPS + inflated stats + foods.