Guild Wars 2

To preface, the scepter skill currently does a mediocre amount of damage, and on the third combo chain, it creates a clone that casts more ether bolts.

Clones created use the #1 skill of the weapon currently equipped, and thats fine and dandy because even though they do no damage, there is usually an inherent effect. Sword clone applies vulberability and removes boons, Staff clone applies one of three conditions, Greatsword clone hits multiple times (allows more bleed stack if traited), but the exception is the scepter clone. These clones do nothing but throw a negligible damage bolt every second or so, and essentially you are only keeping them around to act as a meatshield or shatter fodder.
In the betas, the #1 skill used to apply confusion, which makes sense as that was the role of the weapon.
My concern is that currently the scepter is rarely used, due to its inability to output any notably significant amount of damage or control. If Anet wants us to use scepters again, it needs to be reworked – possibly somehow applying confusion without a terrible imbalance. Maybe add confusion on the first or second etherbolt combo, that way clones can stack it too (assuming they rotate through the combos).

Anyone share the same thoughts?

Not to mention the animation for the swing of the scepter looks aesthetically sloppy.

How about 1st scepter hit grants Confusion based on how far they are. (3 if really close, 1 if their far)
2nd grants a free teleport
3rd grants reflection

Fits the whole mesmer concept imo.

I really have no idea why they took the confusion off autoattack, that would have made it at least semi-useful for pve.

If they put confusion on autoattack it would be pure heaven for heavy condition builds.

Sword clones use all 3 parts of the chain. If you need heavy boon stripping utility, you can spawn sword clones and let them go to work. The only other weapon we have with an autoattack chain is scepter, and it is evident that the clones only use the first part of that chain.

The reason that confusion was removed was because by stacking 3 clones, you could easily obtain upwards of 10-15 constant confusion stacks on a target, and this was not a tenable position to have a weapon in.

The major problem with the scepter autoattack is that the speed is directly related to your distance from the target. You will not start the next part of the chain until the projectile generated actually reaches the target. This means that standing next to your target provides a significantly higher attack speed than standing at 900 range. Why this was done, I have no idea. They could have easily made the mechanic like the guardian scepter attack. Regardless of why, either the attack speed needs to be uncoupled from the projectile impact, or the speed of the projectile needs to be MASSIVELY increased.

I use the Scepter all the time. I use Scepter #1 auto attack when I am running around, trying to access the situation. While I am mindlessly lobbing clones at the mob, I am finding a good spot to stand, finding some poor warrior to res, or planning out my next attack.

Once my plan is in action, I have some clonefodder to shatter for: mediocre aoe damage, confusion stacks, stun (daze?) always fun at a party, or invulnerabilty (as if I’d ever need it).

I often wish that scepter #1 did more base damage, but if it did, then I wouldn’t have to think at all, and might as well be an engineer.:)

Pyroatheist.9031:

The major problem with the scepter autoattack is that the speed is directly related to your distance from the target. You will not start the next part of the chain until the projectile generated actually reaches the target.

Thats interesting, i did not know this (since I rarely play it). Definitely should change this as well, because i noticed its about as slow as the staff autoattack.

I’m a full time sceptre user. While I’m all for buffs, as a clone creating confusion tool the sceptre is powerful at what it does. If you look at the clone creating third attack on its own, the spawn rate appears very slow. But if you’re managing your CD’s, traits, utilities, and keeping your auto attack going constantly, slotting in your other skills at the right time, your clone creation rate is constant allowing for a constant stream of shatters to be sent at your target.

I think a lot of this comes down to play styles. I see a lot of mesmer vids/phantasm builds etc where players like to summon and keep their clones on the ground, firing off attacks, doing their DPS, or whatever it is they do. If you want to create a heck of a lot of clones and do a hell of a lot of shatters, then the sceptre is amazing if only because of its clone spawn on 3rd attack. You’ve just got to build it right, and get very good at managing your fight around the 3 attack chain.

Just to give some examples: You want to fire your sceptre #2 skill (for confusion stacks) the moment after the clone is created, and preferably when you’ve got three clones in the works. You can use skills like iMage or temporal curtain in between auto attacks without breaking the chain, so long as you go straight back to #1. You just gotta play smart.

Ross Biddle.2367:

I’m a full time sceptre user. While I’m all for buffs, as a clone creating confusion tool the sceptre is powerful at what it does. If you look at the clone creating third attack on its own, the spawn rate appears very slow. But if you’re managing your CD’s, traits, utilities, and keeping your auto attack going constantly, slotting in your other skills at the right time, your clone creation rate is constant allowing for a constant stream of shatters to be sent at your target.

I think a lot of this comes down to play styles. I see a lot of mesmer vids/phantasm builds etc where players like to summon and keep their clones on the ground, firing off attacks, doing their DPS, or whatever it is they do. If you want to create a heck of a lot of clones and do a hell of a lot of shatters, then the sceptre is amazing if only because of its clone spawn on 3rd attack. You’ve just got to build it right, and get very good at managing your fight around the 3 attack chain.

Just to give some examples: You want to fire your sceptre #2 skill (for confusion stacks) the moment after the clone is created, and preferably when you’ve got three clones in the works. You can use skills like iMage or temporal curtain in between auto attacks without breaking the chain, so long as you go straight back to #1. You just gotta play smart.

The problem with the chain is that in almost all shatter based builds, you will have clone on dodge roll, as well as a lot of precision for high crit rate. The crits provide you with almost constant vigor uptime, which means lots of dodging. Using a sword, you have a very short cooldown double leap combo finisher clone creator packaged into 1 skill, and you get a lot of vigor+ decent damage from blurred frenzy, though you do lose confusing images. The final result is that from dodge rolls, utilities, and other weaponskills, you have more clones than you know what to do with, certainly more than you can shatter even with maxed shatter rate. The clone from the scepter autoattack simply isn’t needed, and you’re left with a sub-standard attack chain that is both slow, and does low damage.

I’ve been playing around with Staff / Scepter+Torch and Staff/S+S builds lately, mostly trying to find a build set I like for dungeons (particularly in Fractals).

One thing I feel Scepter has over the Sword is defense. Yes the Scepter is not as high hitting as the sword, but it’s also inherently harder to kill. The fact that it’s ranged obviously works in it’s favor, the fact that you have a very short cooldown block skill (and can supplement that with offhand sword for another block if you want), and then the Confusion 3 skill can be very damaging if you use it properly. You also generally don’t have to take the clone on dodge trait really, meaning you can save your dodges for actual defensive purposes.

I’m not saying Scepter is better than Sword, but it is definitely the ‘safer’ and more defensive option of the two. I would like to see the damage on the auto attack chain increased some though, I think that’s all the skill really needs to be viable at this point.

I’m only a level 60 Mesmer, but there are a couple set-ups I use that helps make a decent PVE option. I often use Scepter+Sword with Sword+Focus. With the trait “Retaliatory Shield” ( http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliatory_Shield ) in Dueling equipped, the Scepter+Sword offers two blocks that give you three nice effects: block mitigates most damage (and you can alternate between the scepter’s and the sword’s), creates clones if a block is successful, while also harming the attacker with Retaliation. I often also have the traits which boost scepter and one-handed swords, which are in the Dueling and Illusion trait lines, I believe. (Illusion traits often help all the cloning that usually ends up happening, with shatter effects and reduced cooldowns.) I use the alternate weapon set of Sword+Focus, mainly because another sword benefits with the traits, and it’s a great melee option, considering the many other effects available. There’s probably no need to continue more in depth, but it’s plain to see in practice how it rounds out nicely, with a number of trait and skill options. (Feedback, for one. And who doesn’t love Temporal Curtain?)

Of the scepter itself, I could stand to see a higher rate of fire, and a cutting down on the firing animations, especially the scepter’s third skill, which I think many have mentioned. I’ve found a lot of use for a scepter in my own play, anyway.

…Apologies, the trait line that has the scepter boost is within Inspiration.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I’m a full time sceptre user. While I’m all for buffs, as a clone creating confusion tool the sceptre is powerful at what it does. If you look at the clone creating third attack on its own, the spawn rate appears very slow. But if you’re managing your CD’s, traits, utilities, and keeping your auto attack going constantly, slotting in your other skills at the right time, your clone creation rate is constant allowing for a constant stream of shatters to be sent at your target.

I think a lot of this comes down to play styles. I see a lot of mesmer vids/phantasm builds etc where players like to summon and keep their clones on the ground, firing off attacks, doing their DPS, or whatever it is they do. If you want to create a heck of a lot of clones and do a hell of a lot of shatters, then the sceptre is amazing if only because of its clone spawn on 3rd attack. You’ve just got to build it right, and get very good at managing your fight around the 3 attack chain.

Just to give some examples: You want to fire your sceptre #2 skill (for confusion stacks) the moment after the clone is created, and preferably when you’ve got three clones in the works. You can use skills like iMage or temporal curtain in between auto attacks without breaking the chain, so long as you go straight back to #1. You just gotta play smart.

The problem with the chain is that in almost all shatter based builds, you will have clone on dodge roll, as well as a lot of precision for high crit rate. The crits provide you with almost constant vigor uptime, which means lots of dodging. Using a sword, you have a very short cooldown double leap combo finisher clone creator packaged into 1 skill, and you get a lot of vigor+ decent damage from blurred frenzy, though you do lose confusing images. The final result is that from dodge rolls, utilities, and other weaponskills, you have more clones than you know what to do with, certainly more than you can shatter even with maxed shatter rate. The clone from the scepter autoattack simply isn’t needed, and you’re left with a sub-standard attack chain that is both slow, and does low damage.

In addition to this point if you have the scepter for condition damage all you want is confusing images and the auto attack kittens you. The reason being if you’re smart you’ll have staff clones up and why would you replace staff clones with scepter clones in a condition build? Also in shatter builds you typically want power not condition damage so confusing images becomes useless to you and as pyroatheist stated you get more clones than you need when using clone on dodge and main hand sword.

The scepter seems to be a mediocre weapon that doesn’t mesh very well with any build. I use it on my condition mesmer but only because I have no other decent choice.

If you think the scepter is a bad tool, trying checking out my video here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPaiEXhe_1M

It can be amazing when used right. And it hits like a truck on low-defence builds (glass cannons get hit for 500 on the first 2 hits, the third hit deals 1k).

TheRamosOnline.2670:

If you think the scepter is a bad tool, trying checking out my video here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPaiEXhe_1M

It can be amazing when used right. And it hits like a truck on low-defence builds (glass cannons get hit for 500 on the first 2 hits, the third hit deals 1k).

And how, may I ask, does that damage compare to the GS or the Sword?

IMO, Confusion should be re-introduced to Ether Clone, and Scepter Clones should use the entire Ether Bolt chain except their Ether Clone doesn’t conjure a Clone (but does inflict Confusion).

I’m sorry but no matter how ya slice it, the scepter is painful for any build. Personally tried every build I can with the scepter. From tanking to dps to condi build.

And if sword wasn’t a viable option it was just in the way either with clones I didn’t need/want or a useless block. Seriously what am I gonna do with 1 block? I’ll just dodge roll with a staff and do more dps, or off hand sword with leap finisher. The confusion stacks aren’t much better good opponents dodge most of it, and even if they don’t they will get some space for the 4 seconds its actually useful

I have felt this way since beta. I’ve even played other classes to escape this weapon. But I’m drawn to the mesmer. I’m begging at this point rework this weapon or give us another option so I’m not forced into GS or staff anymore.

…What are you going to do with one block? I think I gave at least three different things, with one single block. You can’t dodge forever and there are benefits all around you. A block removes all damage. You usually can hold it instead of having to dodge at precisely the right time, which means a little wider margin for error in order to get no damage whatsoever, plus have endurance regen, if that’s important for later. And even if you don’t end up using the block, the second use of a skill before it stops blocking give you blindness or a daze you can place upon an entire line of enemies.

cpearson.9374:

…What are you going to do with one block? I think I gave at least three different things, with one single block. You can’t dodge forever and there are benefits all around you. A block removes all damage. You usually can hold it instead of having to dodge at precisely the right time, which means a little wider margin for error in order to get no damage whatsoever, plus have endurance regen, if that’s important for later. And even if you don’t end up using the block, the second use of a skill before it stops blocking give you blindness or a daze you can place upon an entire line of enemies.

The only problem with a block in practice, is that multi-hit skills will completely invalidate the effects of the block, while a dodge will often allow you to more effectively avoid that sort of damage or crowd control.

Yes as said before, the #3 skill, “Confusing Images” is a 3 second channel. I often find players see this and end up dodging 80% of the channeling stacks. This is yet another but minor problem with scepter use in pvp. 3 seconds is far too long to channel something that can very easily be mostly avoided.

1 attack with scepter does piddly damage and summons clones at the same rate as other weapons can. The other weapons summon them with far more benefits than these ones.

2 a single block with a cancel for a blind or will hit them back. Either case it’s still a single hit stopped. Not very useful.

3 strong damage + confusion stacks. It’s good damage but has a very obvious/long wind up, is easily mitigated, and has a long cooldown.

So to sum up the scepter skills… rubbish + rubbish + rubbish =’s rubbish

Every attack has its uses you just have to know how to use it. The scepter one attack’s main purpose is to create clone. It creates clones faster than any other skills. It creates a new clone in 2 seconds. No other weapon skills can do that. So the advantage is in a shatter build. I think is fine. Not my build right now but I did try it. Scepter/Torch and Staff for shatter build.

I’d keep the Scepter as it is (except I’d tweak the animation I think), but I’d change the Clones:

Ether Clone
Hit the enemy with a final burst of energy, spawning a Clone which in turn attacks the enemy with it’s Scepter, spawning more Clones.

Notes:

• Clone-Clones are not usable by us in any way, shape or form. They cannot be used for shatters, they don’t proc traits at all, they don’t influence +3%-traits.
• Clone-Clones are bound to the generating Clone. If that clone gets shattered away or destroyed in any way, shape or form, the sub-clones also disappear.
• Clone-Clones are limited to 3 per actual Clone.

In other words, the scepter could spawn an army of 12 Clones total (even if only 3 are mechanically usable and "really there). That’s some confusion even for the worst of PvP. :P

Aberrant.6749:

1 attack with scepter does piddly damage and summons clones at the same rate as other weapons can. The other weapons summon them with far more benefits than these ones.

2 a single block with a cancel for a blind or will hit them back. Either case it’s still a single hit stopped. Not very useful.

3 strong damage + confusion stacks. It’s good damage but has a very obvious/long wind up, is easily mitigated, and has a long cooldown.

So to sum up the scepter skills… rubbish + rubbish + rubbish =’s rubbish

Ironically, the scepter is pretty good damage if you’re running zerker gear, but if you’re running zerker gear, you probably aren’t using scepter.

The block deals 2200/4500 on my zerker build. Channeled ability deals 400/900 X 5. I think the autoattack is about 350/750 with crits over 1000 on the third attack…

But most people use it only condition build only which means, all 3 skills suck in damage and only the confusion on one of the abilities profits from CD.

the whole weapon should/must be redone, completely. All three skills the weapon has access to royally suck. I always keep hearing people try to spin their its good if you know how to use it or its as good as a staff for condition builds but no, just hell NO. Nothing in this weapon is good no matter how good or bad you are.

It’s true. Staff with extra bounce trait just kills it. 2 condition and one boon per autoattack? If you have zerker gear staff can deal up to 1200 direct damage per autoattack.

WillOfIron.5273:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I’m a full time sceptre user. While I’m all for buffs, as a clone creating confusion tool the sceptre is powerful at what it does. If you look at the clone creating third attack on its own, the spawn rate appears very slow. But if you’re managing your CD’s, traits, utilities, and keeping your auto attack going constantly, slotting in your other skills at the right time, your clone creation rate is constant allowing for a constant stream of shatters to be sent at your target.

I think a lot of this comes down to play styles. I see a lot of mesmer vids/phantasm builds etc where players like to summon and keep their clones on the ground, firing off attacks, doing their DPS, or whatever it is they do. If you want to create a heck of a lot of clones and do a hell of a lot of shatters, then the sceptre is amazing if only because of its clone spawn on 3rd attack. You’ve just got to build it right, and get very good at managing your fight around the 3 attack chain.

Just to give some examples: You want to fire your sceptre #2 skill (for confusion stacks) the moment after the clone is created, and preferably when you’ve got three clones in the works. You can use skills like iMage or temporal curtain in between auto attacks without breaking the chain, so long as you go straight back to #1. You just gotta play smart.

The problem with the chain is that in almost all shatter based builds, you will have clone on dodge roll, as well as a lot of precision for high crit rate. The crits provide you with almost constant vigor uptime, which means lots of dodging. Using a sword, you have a very short cooldown double leap combo finisher clone creator packaged into 1 skill, and you get a lot of vigor+ decent damage from blurred frenzy, though you do lose confusing images. The final result is that from dodge rolls, utilities, and other weaponskills, you have more clones than you know what to do with, certainly more than you can shatter even with maxed shatter rate. The clone from the scepter autoattack simply isn’t needed, and you’re left with a sub-standard attack chain that is both slow, and does low damage.

In addition to this point if you have the scepter for condition damage all you want is confusing images and the auto attack kittens you. The reason being if you’re smart you’ll have staff clones up and why would you replace staff clones with scepter clones in a condition build? Also in shatter builds you typically want power not condition damage so confusing images becomes useless to you and as pyroatheist stated you get more clones than you need when using clone on dodge and main hand sword.

The scepter seems to be a mediocre weapon that doesn’t mesh very well with any build. I use it on my condition mesmer but only because I have no other decent choice.

The problem here is in your thinking. You look at condition damage and see a number of clones raised and left on the field to spam their auto attacks. With a confusion/shatter build you want to stack to get the most bang for your buck. So you create, then shatter. Four stacks of confusion is 1200 damage confusion on the target for me (each time they use a skill). I can stack 8 in few seconds, usually stack about twelve if I want to hurl everything in, and can go to 14. 14 stacks is 5k damage per skill use. Now if the enemy is relatively close together, those stacks (not all 14 since that’d require scepter) hit the whole group. Of course you dont want to forget that all the shatters, any other CD’s the illusions/phantasms landed, + any chaos storms etc you dropped are all adding damage on top of that. I don’t run a glass cannon, crit build either btw.

Also, with scepter I have the problem of having to many illusions for my shatter skills to handle (and I run full illusions trait line). So yeah, nothing against the sword but I don’t find myself left wanting with the sceptre. I get that people don’t like it. I’m confident my enemies don’t like it more though, and that’s from experience

Nuka Cola.8520:

the whole weapon should/must be redone, completely. All three skills the weapon has access to royally suck. I always keep hearing people try to spin their its good if you know how to use it or its as good as a staff for condition builds but no, just hell NO. Nothing in this weapon is good no matter how good or bad you are.

Nuka Cola, I luv ya (SoR ftw), but all I read here is “I’m not good with this weapon”. David Sirlin wrote the book Playing to Win. Whenever I come to these forums I can’t help but think of him.

I run a condition-build using staff. My important traits are Sharper Images and Deceptive Evasion.

For WvW roaming I need the focus in my secondary weapon slot.

In my secondary weapon slot mainhand I use scepter not because it’s good, but because it’s the only one-handed ranged weapon we have for the main hand. (if there was a main hand pistol, I’d probably use it instead of scepter, but there isn’t).

Scepter #3:
This is the only scepter skill I really use. Sometimes when my usual tactic (clone crit bleeds and staff attacks) doesn’t work against an enemy (fighting a tanky build, or they got too much healing power and condition removal) I try to kill them with Confusion damage. Having three illusions out all the time, I switch from staff to scepter, hit #3 to apply confusion and use F2 shatter Cry of Confusion at the same time. Sometimes they blow up themselves, sometimes not. Often they just dodge roll through my scepter attack and/or evade my shatter. Oh well …

Scepter #2:
I consider this as a pretty crappy skill. I use it as a gap filler when the above tactic failed, while waiting to switch back to staff. Once you have used the #3 scepter skill, there is nothing left to do. (except waiting for staff to become ready again)

Scepter #1:
I actually avoid using this skill, because it does lousy damage anyway (I’m heavy into condition damage, not much power) and it kills my precious staff clones (who are using staff #1 and probaly do more damage than me using scepter #1). If there are scepter clones out when I switch back to staff, I instantly shatter them and replace them with staff clones. Scepter clones are just worthless.

tl;dr
Scepter is mostly crap, but it’s the only one-handed ranged weapon for my main hand. I use it only because there is no alternative.

Ross Biddle.2367:

David Sirlin wrote the book Playing to Win. Whenever I come to these forums I can’t help but think of him.

Yeah I think about that book too when I see people kidding themselves that all weapons are equally viable “you just need to play them the right way”.
You know what Sirlin would have said? “Ditch this weak kitten weapon”. A major part of playing to win is using the most powerful tool available, regardless of hipster cred (“I’m not using staff because everyone else is using it, I’m using scepter/torch because I want to be unique” is not playing to win.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Four stacks of confusion is 1200 damage confusion on the target for me (each time they use a skill). I can stack 8 in few seconds, usually stack about twelve if I want to hurl everything in, and can go to 14.

And how long does your stack stay at 14? Like 2 seconds. How many times does a champion attack in that time? Once, maybe.

Confusion is so bad I don’t even feel the need to bring up condition removal in discussions involving it. If there were 0 cond removal in this game, it would still suck, mainly thanks to absurdly low durations.

And if anyone talks about killing stuff with confusion, 100% of the time they are talking about WvW. Because in spvp and pve, this condition is so horribly useless.

I was personally thinking that the thing that the mesmer misses most in comparison to other classes is an small aoe auto attack, Elementalists aouto fire ball, all melee weapons hit multiple targets, but an Mesmer has very limited ways to just constantly damage a group with auto attacks and has no rapid recharge ( 4-5 sec ) skill that does decent aoe damage. So far the only way to constantly deal damage to a mob is to use a melee sword and stick in there.. not a good idea most of the time, or use a staff and hit 2-3 targets with bouncing bolts, so playing with all the weapons it seems that the wand would be the best candidate to gain a really small fireball like aoe , and I think this would make mesmer much better at pve.

My suggestion that I’ve said on the forums before:

Make the projectiles of the attack chain hit nearly instantly. (Like bullets)
This will increase the speed of the chain to its intended cast time of 0.5, 0.5, 1 seconds (2 seconds total). Because of travelling time, the chain takes significantly more time to complete the chain, often twice or three times as much time.

The necromancer’s scepter chain takes about the same time (0.5, 0.5, 0.5), but because there is no projectile involved, the hits feel appropriate in damage (the curses hit for less damage than the mesmer’s ether bolts) due to its fast speed.

Make the bolt into something that rips through the air at a crazy speed. Maybe a wave, or an Ether Ripple through the air.

While the current state of scepter is okay, I do agree that it needs to be buffed or reworked. There are several ideas that I like for the scepter 1 attack chain to be different:

- Making the ether bolts do a small AoE upon hitting target (or a splashing effect works)

- Make the ether bolts hit the target nearly instant (similar to the necromancer’s scepter attacks)

- Give the first 2 attacks a condition (chill/confusion/bleed/poison) while keeping the 3rd the same

- Give the 1st attack a condition (confusion), the 2nd attack removes a boon, and 3rd stays the same. The first 2 have a small AoE splash damage.

Mesmers got several skills that can remove boons so the last idea is most appealing to me and would help boost the scepter’s favor.

Edit: I would type more or make it more clarifying but I have to get to work. ><;

The scepter is actually a rather inefficient clone generator, because it takes roughtly 4 seconds to hit that third combo chain, and requires a successful hit (let alone the previous two have to hit). If your target dies, or you are forced to use other skills for a period of time, then your combo chain resets and you have to start over. If you look at the sword mainhand and staff, they generate their clones instantly and require no other conditions at a 9.5 and 8 seconds recharge (with 5 trait in illusions) respectively.

If you have the clone on dodge trait, you’d also have vigor on crit. Coupled with the slow attack speed, you won’t be getting vigor any where near as many times with another weapon. Staff and GS can hit multiple times and sword is just plain faster. And thus even fewer illusions to play with.

ManCaptain.3154:

Ross Biddle.2367:

David Sirlin wrote the book Playing to Win. Whenever I come to these forums I can’t help but think of him.

Yeah I think about that book too when I see people kidding themselves that all weapons are equally viable “you just need to play them the right way”.
You know what Sirlin would have said? “Ditch this weak kitten weapon”. A major part of playing to win is using the most powerful tool available, regardless of hipster cred (“I’m not using staff because everyone else is using it, I’m using scepter/torch because I want to be unique” is not playing to win.

You remind me of all the Sirlin references where he mentions players who’ve found nitch, often disregarded characters (in street fighter), and figured out things about them that very few other players have, and have used them to win. Suggesting I, or others who play with success using the scepter are simply looking for “hipster cred” is scrub talk. No offence intended.

Kambo Rambo.8561:

The scepter is actually a rather inefficient clone generator, because it takes roughly 4 seconds to hit that third combo chain, and requires a successful hit (let alone the previous two have to hit). If your target dies, or you are forced to use other skills for a period of time, then your combo chain resets and you have to start over.

None of the bolts have to hit the target. In fact you can fire off two dummy attacks (at air) and, once in range, or upon selecting a target, spawn the clone on the third attack. So you can actually “queue” a clone spawn before reaching your target, or entering combat. Target death is irrelevant too, you can fire two bolts at one target, and target another for the third clone spawn. Combo chain does reset if you stay off it for to long though, but that just means good skill management. Removing chain reset would be a small, but positive buff the sceptre could receive without even raising the question of being game breaking.

Ross Biddle.2367:

ManCaptain.3154:

Ross Biddle.2367:

David Sirlin wrote the book Playing to Win. Whenever I come to these forums I can’t help but think of him.

Yeah I think about that book too when I see people kidding themselves that all weapons are equally viable “you just need to play them the right way”.
You know what Sirlin would have said? “Ditch this weak kitten weapon”. A major part of playing to win is using the most powerful tool available, regardless of hipster cred (“I’m not using staff because everyone else is using it, I’m using scepter/torch because I want to be unique” is not playing to win.

You remind me of all the Sirlin references where he mentions players who’ve found nitch, often disregarded characters (in street fighter), and figured out things about them that very few other players have, and have used them to win. Suggesting I, or others who play with success using the scepter are simply looking for “hipster cred” is scrub talk. No offence intended.

Lol success… you’re killing stuff and you think that massive success. If you’re playing with scepter you’re playing a suboptimal build. If you weren’t a scrub you’d know just how inferior scepter is. No offence intended.

I am a PvE player and I recently started using Scepter in dungeons. I want to make a couple of observations.

First of all, all the mainhand mesmer weapons can produce a clone. That is, Scepter and Sword.
All offhand weapons can produce phantasms. Focus, Sword, Pistol and Torch. Phantasms do a lot of damage.
Greatsword and Staff produce both a clone and a phantasm each.

I play a phantasm build with berserker’s stats. It may not be the best mesmer build around but I like the big numbers of the criticals and overall my damage isn’t so bad. I used to play Sword/Sword or Sword/Focus and Greatsword. However after the GS nerf I had to change my ranged weapon. Staff phantasms can do amazing damage if your team does conditions. 10k criticals aren’t rare. The problem is that the staff itself does very little damage so in situations were clones died fast my damage fell to almost 0. So I tried the scepter.

It’s direct damage is comparable to GS and the block ability on 2 is nice. My main problem is the clone that spawns from the main attack. When you have 3 illusions already and you spawn a clone it replaces one of your existing illusions. If you have a clone out it replaces the clone, othewise it can replace phantasms. That is a problem in dungeons cause even in situations where your phantasms don’t die, you’ll have 2 max and a clone if you use scepter.

I won’t suggest to remove the clone completely since it can be useful and it follows the pattern of other mesmer weapons. However it would be great if Anet could find a solution so we can summon it only when it is needed. Maybe move it to the second scepter skill or something.

There is also a request from some people to give the mesmer a pistol mainhand. I don’t think that’s ever gonna happen but it would be a solutions for those who’d like to use offhand on pve at range, without the clone problem.

• new attack animation, the blast just is “BAM! Buttaflies to yo FAAAAACE!” on the foe, no range decreasing dps

• add a 4th attack(move clone creation to here)

• for attack 3 make it so that it chucks out 1 stack of confusion for X amount for Y duration; just as SOMEthing

—or!—

• just make it so the clones using scepter attacks cast the X/Y confuse blast as their only attack. it can be 1 sec for low dmg… just so theres something kinda fun and worth shooting for with it

—or!—

• make #1 a small aoe

• make #2 bounce once for each clone you have out(plus the trait ability working properly with it) and each bounce does diff stuff, like the 1 sec confuse/1 sec fear/boon removal/condition removal

It’s a rather odd that Arena.net hasn’t at least addressed their opinion on the weapon (this is personal opinion, don’t quote me on it, think you’re being clever or white knighting), but it seems that the majority rule in favor that the weapon isn’t anything great. The concept is, but that’s about it, a defensive weapon that can’t keep up where it’s necessary.

The third ability is fine, though the wind up is is too much of a clear give away, if your opponent catches you channeling it. In coordinated fights or against of decent player, confusion won’t do much good and the duration in pve doesn’t help much in a grand amount of content. The second ability is alright and does it’s job, a shield with a backlash and a fallback secondary ability to blind all foes in a straight line. That helps plenty in pvp scenarios, specifically in cluster formation.

How exactly do you enhance the first ability though? Firstly, the way it attacks is unique and odd, having to wait till the projectile reaches it’s opponent before it can reach the next stage, although you can prepare it prior to a fight and have it automatically generate a clone. If I was to make a suggestion, have it shoot out an additional bolt or two along with it, that could deviate towards the nearest target dealing damage, but the main bolt would always deal the max prescribed. If there isn’t a third target, only one deviates to the nearby target and the other two hit the main target. Something along that line. The bolts would need to add an ailment…pick any from the list; have it only occur on a specific stage, percentage that it will apply or something. The weapon doesn’t need to be power based, it’s not a weapon mesmers are clamoring for as a powerhouse weapon, have it’s damage be based off conditional damage instead, keeping it up to par with power based weapons.

On the wiki, it states that it’s that “it creates clones quickly”, but we all know that it does so at a relatively slow pace. The clone’s themselves are lackluster and only exist to die, walking timers, and since they’re ranged, they take time to reach their target, so all that glorious shatter damage can be mitigated by side stepping away. The clones need something to spice them up, perhaps use the bolt idea I proposed or use the number three skill. They also need a faster way to move in for shattering, why not add a “deterioration” effect, increase their speed since their doomed to die and the illusion is lost, especially when you have three of four sprinting towards you. Why not have them explode into butterflies and have them hone in on their target and explode on top of the target, causing an ethereal wave of damage….and butterflies.

If Arena.net wants us to utilize the weapon in specific way, they need to tell us, as we’ve come to the conclusion that it’s a bunker condition-based weapon (malice from traits, applies confusion, clone generator at a slow pace and defensive ability with a secondary blind). It’s viable, but sub par as a our only other main hand weapon and the weapon itself isn’t used by the other professions as much as it should. I’ve only seen a guardian here and there sporting it above level 20. Increasing the projectile’s speed was a good start, but they need to put more pressure on it to really squeeze the potential out of it.

There’s a reason you don’t see many people buying Storm to craft Meteorlogicus for a reason, besides lacking anything other than a nifty skin design.

Be careful what you wish for in “making scepter a viable alnternative”. I know a certain gaming house that accomplishes this by nerfing all other superior alternatives.

Vitril.6495:

My main problem is the clone that spawns from the main attack. When you have 3 illusions already and you spawn a clone it replaces one of your existing illusions. If you have a clone out it replaces the clone, othewise it can replace phantasms. That is a problem in dungeons cause even in situations where your phantasms don’t die, you’ll have 2 max and a clone if you use scepter.

This is a mistake. The sceptre replaces clones only, and not phantasms. Even if the phantasm is technically the next up in terms of order of creation “queue”.

Ross Biddle.2367:

This is a mistake. The sceptre replaces clones only, and not phantasms. Even if the phantasm is technically the next up in terms of order of creation “queue”.

I don’t know if you misunderstood what I wrote or you just don’t know how illusions work. If you have 3 illusions summoned and at least one of them is a clone then every clone skill you use will replace the clone, that includes scepter #1. However if all three are phantasms then the clone skill will replace a phantasm with a clone, including scepter #1. Subsequent uses of a clone skill will keep replacing the clone leaving your two phantasms alone. However this limits you to two phantasms as the third gets replaced by a clone if you use scepter #1.

I just tasted it on the training dummies in LA just to be sure I’m not mistaken.

Vitril.6495:

Ross Biddle.2367:

This is a mistake. The sceptre replaces clones only, and not phantasms. Even if the phantasm is technically the next up in terms of order of creation “queue”.

I don’t know if you misunderstood what I wrote or you just don’t know how illusions work. If you have 3 illusions summoned and at least one of them is a clone then every clone skill you use will replace the clone, that includes scepter #1. However if all three are phantasms then the clone skill will replace a phantasm with a clone, including scepter #1. Subsequent uses of a clone skill will keep replacing the clone leaving your two phantasms alone. However this limits you to two phantasms as the third gets replaced by a clone if you use scepter #1.

I just tasted it on the training dummies in LA just to be sure I’m not mistaken.

All good, I agree with that.

Also, although the projectile speed has been increased, not only does it still regularly miss, the damage is abyssmal even when it hits. Compare to the instantaneous laser from Greatsword.