Guild Wars 2

Pyroatheist.9031:

Now about the torch. People say that the prestige is great for escaping or w/e. They are right. The problem is that if you are escaping, you are escaping FROM something, and you were fighting that something with a torch. As an in-combat stealth, the prestige is bad. You have to channel it. If you dodge, you lose both your stealth and the burn. Why they didn’t keep it how it was in beta is beyond me.

I don’t know why people think stealth is good for “escaping”. For me the most valuable benefit of stealth is target-dropping: has the enemy found you? Can you feel an incoming Backstab? Disappear and possibly Blind that pesky Thief, then follow him around as he comes out of stealth and burn him as you reappear.

Effectively doubling the rate you can target-drop is huge. It is nothing to be sneezed at. Yes, The Prestige has the disadvantage of being channelled (thus being vulnerable to AoE CC and you cannot do stuff like charge Mantras or heal), but it is, after all, a more offensive stealth than Decoy is.

(Not that I disagree that making it channelled was totally uncalled for.)

As I mentioned before, the Torch is perfect as part of a secondary set. As a condition Mesmer for example, I rely almost completely on Staff for damage, switching only to Sword-Torch for defense (or boon-stripping). Using the Torch then is logical as it has a great support skill, and since I’m more interested in Staff Clones than Phantasms anyway I don’t much care that the iMage is weak (the iWarlock, for a condition build, is about the same).

Lightsbane.9012:

Rexx.1805:

Embolism.8106:

If you ever feel like using the Sceptre, slap yourself and use the Sword instead.

I completely agree with you but since i’m not much of a melee player i would love to have a good ranged MH. Bah…lets hope it gets buffed sometime (one can dream!!!).

or give us another ranged man hand weapon….
i think this forum knows what i’m talking about.

PISTOL PISTOL PISTOL PISTOL PISTOL!!!!!!!

I would like to see a significant decrease to torch skills while untraited before using it. I like it and the burning is quite cool. The cooldowns are just too long to really be a good weapon considering what all out other cooldowns for off hands are.

All these responses are fail. I guess it’s just time to make a video displaying how wrong you sorry excuses for mesmers are

Please do. I would love for someone to give me a reason to wield a scepter. Its the only weapon I haven’t really given a chance yet.

Ross Biddle.2367:

All these responses are fail. I guess it’s just time to make a video displaying how wrong you sorry excuses for mesmers are

By all means do so. I highly doubt you will be able to have anything more than limited success compared with any other build a mesmer can use, but go for it. It does say something that no matter how much myself and others squabble over things like mantras, and torch, and traits, the one thing that is agreed to almost entirely across the board is that the scepter is a horrible idea, and the devs that made it should feel ashamed of themselves.

Scepter is just such a snoozeville for me. Boring and incredibly slow projectile auto-attack that creates a useless clone (in comparison to other weapons). Boring block skill with awkward chain. Skill 3 is at least visually interesting, but the long channel is limiting.

Well I run sometimes (am at this moment) Sword/Torch – Scepter/Sword in a tanky crit based build. It’s not as bursty as say my GS-sword/sword build but it has a really nice flow and great survivability. (though no way to really stop runners, which sucks).

Knock it all you want but The Prestige is a really great skill both offensively and defensively, not only do I deal a decent amount of damage + burn with it but the extra stealth for target drops/repositions is invaluable. I don’t have it traited atm but it’s even nicer with the lower CD and condition removal. I’ll agree that the iMage is mostly trash but I still use it as a distraction + some people will stop attacking when the confusion is on them, even if I have pathetic condition damage and it only hits them for like 350 a skill lol.

The Scepter/Sword combo I really enjoy, though it has a way different flow then most Mesmer weapon setups, so I can see people not liking it. The Scepter auto attack isn’t all that bad with a power/crit based build, though it could be better.. I mostly use that for finishing off runners.. Confusing Images can actually hit pretty hard directly on top of the battle control of putting confusion on someone as I move in for a melee burst. You get used to landing the channel successfully after you use it for awhile, though some of it can be avoided with 1 dodge, in my case 1 stack of confusion is just as good as 5 as I’m not after the condition damage just to get my target to think twice about using skills. Having two blocks is quite amazing once you get good at using them well, especially versus pesky thieves.

All in all, sure they could use some improvements, but they are certainly not trash and can be used with great success.

Though I change my build and weapon load out basically on a daily basis and can perform well with anything I happen to choose that day.

@dank: The problem is, that in your build, for example, mainhand sword would be a better choice than scepter. It would do more damage, have more defense, and have more utility. The only thing it lacks is the range, and that is made up for by illusionary leap being 600 range + cripple + immobilize. I have no doubt that you make use of the scepter well, the problem is that it is simply worse than the sword, even in a situation where you want ranged damage.

The GS is a far superior ranged DPS weapon than the Sceptre is. Blurred Frenzy is a far superior defensive (and offensive) skill to Illusionary Counter. Whether Confusing Images hits or not is far more dependent on your target than yourself, it simply gives your opponent way too much time to negate it.

The only thing the Sceptre really has going for it is that it’s the only MH ranged option. However, if you want ranged DPS and a particular OH you’re far better off using GS + Sword.

Note that this is all about PvP. In PvE I use the Sceptre as a complement to my Staff as mobs do not make any effort to counter Confusing Images, and many mobs stomp squishy melees hard.

Ross Biddle.2367:

All these responses are fail. I guess it’s just time to make a video displaying how wrong you sorry excuses for mesmers are

Just because of this hitty post, i’m gonna spend a few tokens and get a fakkin’ scepter. Let’s see how much better than my sword it’ll do in my full damage mantra build.

Ya gonna owe me 300 tokens if it ends up being crap, m8!

Weird my post isn’t displaying right….. was trying to say if scepter and torch are so bad maybe someone should tell Flimpy and Seven o_O

I love how the weapon that emphasizes clone play the most is the one which gets the big flashy pink ray of obviousness +5.

It really should get a sound effect like “over here! I’m here, look at me here! no, those guys are clones, that’s me shooting that ray at you!”

Back in beta it applied confusion on autoattack which was deemed to strong, so the devs decided to entirely kill that weapon and confusion builds along with it.

Scepter is also our only weapon that doesn’t have a combo finisher on it, if Scepter1 at least had 20% chance for projectile finisher it would be something. It might make the clones worth more than just shatter-fodder too.

Kazhiel.8194:

Weird my post isn’t displaying right….. was trying to say if scepter and torch are so bad maybe someone should tell Flimpy and Seven o_O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv6tSfNpWs0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaeZ_IKZPJk

If you actually watch Flimpy, you’ll notice that he spends at least 80% of his time in staff. The only times he goes into scepter/torch are to use the prestige basically. His usages of confusing images just show how weak the skill is, where he rarely lets the skill channel the entire time, because he is forced to dodge halfway through. I suspect he uses the scepter simply because he wanted another ranged weapon to go with the staff, but it is obscenely obvious that his build works with the staff, not the scepter.

As for seven, he is running a power build with a scepter. This works largely due to the fact that he is running in a team, which also explains the use of veil as a utility. However, his build would be more effective if he dropped the scepter and torch, put the swords together on 1 weapon swap, and took the greatsword, because the greatsword has almost everything the scepter and torch have.

I like scepters but I think they’d be better if they’d hit multiple targets (kind of like the guardian’s underwater trident).

The staffs auto-attack is too slow by the time the bolt reaches the enemy in wvw zerg on zerg they’re already dead and it usually takes a couple of hits as well before I actually get credit despite using a condi/power/crit build (been playing around with builds a bit last couple of days out of boredom). Unless I use chaos storm but that has a pretty long CD nr 5 ability.

I’d say increase staff auto-attack speed and make scepter bounce between targets.

Emanuel.9781:

Ross Biddle.2367:

All these responses are fail. I guess it’s just time to make a video displaying how wrong you sorry excuses for mesmers are

Just because of this hitty post, i’m gonna spend a few tokens and get a fakkin’ scepter. Let’s see how much better than my sword it’ll do in my full damage mantra build.

Ya gonna owe me 300 tokens if it ends up being crap, m8!

Yeah… that’s like bringing a cricket bat to a tennis match after hearing a cricket player talk about it, then complaining when the cricket bat does a worse job in the sport you’re playing.

If the sword is better for your mantra build, use the sword!

Fay.2735:

I like scepters but I think they’d be better if they’d hit multiple targets (kind of like the guardian’s underwater trident).

The staffs auto-attack is too slow by the time the bolt reaches the enemy in wvw zerg on zerg they’re already dead and it usually takes a couple of hits as well before I actually get credit despite using a condi/power/crit build (been playing around with builds a bit last couple of days out of boredom). Unless I use chaos storm but that has a pretty long CD nr 5 ability.

I’d say increase staff auto-attack speed and make scepter bounce between targets.

Well, aside from winds of chaos having a pretty slow travel time, condition damage is generally worse for tagging in a group just because it takes time to do its damage. Added to the fact that winds of chaos has a really low base damage, and you’ll have quite an issue with tagging things.

As for having the scepter attack hit multiple targets, that’s an interesting idea. Would you still have it be a chain/have the clone spawn on the first target hit? Also, would the multiple target be a result of bouncing, piercing, or some sort of explosions (magic version of engie pistol might be interesting).

The only good thing about Scepter is the 3rd skill, which is channeling. And the only point in a channeling skill is that if you play against a thief and he goes invis right when you use that, it stills hit him
And I do play scepter/torch with my staff when running my condi build.

Im going to pick up sceptre soon for wvw. When you are defending a fort its range is capable of like 1300 against non moving targets. Its not a weapon that will kill outright like the GS but having a sword on swap does nothing for me during defense.

That channel skill does some decent dmg and the confusion it applies is nice even with no condition dmg on your gear since it applies 5 stacks. Sucky range though.

Justine.6351:

…its range is capable of like 1300 against non moving targets…

What?

The scepter auto attack can hit non-moving targets at ~1300 range so long as you are on higher ground, like say a tower wall defending.

I didnt know how effective it would be compared to my GS 1200 range untill i tested it on spvp isle. I could hit a golem from up high in a spot where my gw could not.

Other weapons that do this are the warrior long bow, ranger long/short bow and probably a few others. The ranger longbow 1500 range is REDICULOUSLY long ranged when on high ground. its like 1800-2000 range.

Scepter / Torch definitely needs a buff.

Auto attacking on scepter is just so terrible that using it purely for clone generation is too much of a tradeoff.

Scepter #2 generates clones on block, or u can use it as a blind move which negates the clone generation. Compare this to Blurred Frenzy offered by the sword and it’s really worse in damage, defensive capability and cooldown.

Scepter #3 is too obvious in PvP/WvW and Confusion condition in PvE is overall pretty terrible (subpar duration + low frequency of monster attacks is a bad combination)

Torch #4, Prestige is ok, but breaking out of stealth before it ends should not void the end effect.

Torch #5, imo Retaliation doesn’t do anything and confusion has limitations as well. I find that even on a condition mesmer, iDuelist, swordsman and warden does more damage than this thing. Totally useless especially in PvE.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Kazhiel.8194:

Weird my post isn’t displaying right….. was trying to say if scepter and torch are so bad maybe someone should tell Flimpy and Seven o_O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv6tSfNpWs0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaeZ_IKZPJk

If you actually watch Flimpy, you’ll notice that he spends at least 80% of his time in staff. The only times he goes into scepter/torch are to use the prestige basically. His usages of confusing images just show how weak the skill is, where he rarely lets the skill channel the entire time, because he is forced to dodge halfway through. I suspect he uses the scepter simply because he wanted another ranged weapon to go with the staff, but it is obscenely obvious that his build works with the staff, not the scepter.

As for seven, he is running a power build with a scepter. This works largely due to the fact that he is running in a team, which also explains the use of veil as a utility. However, his build would be more effective if he dropped the scepter and torch, put the swords together on 1 weapon swap, and took the greatsword, because the greatsword has almost everything the scepter and torch have.

whoa, whoa, whoa… ok… I wasn’t going to say much in this thread because I was pretty sure the video proof was more than enough. But now I have people telling me how to play a mesmer, and what would be more effective…

I remember months ago, I was told how bad the scepter was. So I went out and got a scepter. With a high enough +crit damage, it melts people. This has nothing to do with the fact that I run in a team… And veil is there for a good reason. 8 seconds of stealth and chaos armor for me, my clones, and my phantasm, no matter what weapon set I’m in…

The dps increase from using a Scepter was huge. I spend all of my time in WvW, or dueling opponents, and if anyone I have faced in all my many hours dueling would come here and testify… they would -all- say, “Yes”, the scepter can be used, and used very well.

Not only do I get 1.6k crits from auto-attacking, not to mention clone generation, but my Scepter block hits for 3 to 4k… If you see chaos storm on the ground? Put block up and walk in it. Boom, ripost proc. An ele put down ring of fire? Or line of fire? Put up block and walk in it. Boom, ripost proc. The devil is in the details. I go looking for ground aoe now, just to block the affect of it, and trigger a massive damage ripost to whomever laid it down… and it spawns a clone. All of this, and I’m not even running a “power” build. I have 0 points in domination.

So if you don’t mind, sir, don’t tell me or these poor souls what would be more effective in my build…

Ok… so my opinion of the scepter is this. I dig it. But that is because I understand it, and have practiced with it. Don’t just dismiss things because someone tells you how bad they are. Do what I do, go out and find out for yourself.

(but yeah by all means I will welcome a scepter buff, too)

I don’t think there is any doubt that the Sceptre can be used and can be used well. The question is whether another weapon can do the job better.

You can certainly achieve a significant amount of DPS with just Ether Bolt, but is it better than Spatial Surge DPS? The answer is actually yes, at close range. At longer ranges however Spatial Surge takes over, plus it also has 33% more range, is hitscan and is unreflectable.

What about Illusionary Counter? Obviously this is comparing apples to oranges, but let’s compare it to Mirror Blade. In terms of damage they are not dissimilar, but Mirror Blade has a shorter CD and stacks Might and Vulnerability. Illusionary Counter has a longer (effective) range and blocks an attack: it also roots you for short time when it triggers. Overall, if damage is what you want, Mirror Blade will likely give you more of it.

As for Confusing Images, it is actually quite damaging in Power or condition builds. The problem is, as mentioned multiple times, it is depressingly easy to avoid by any competent opponent.

Another thing to consider is Clones. Even in a Shatter build this is significant, as Clones will generally get a few attacks off before they get Shattered. In this department, with Sharper Images, the Greatsword is vastly superior over the Sceptre.

Generally, the GS is just a superior ranged DPS weapon than the Sceptre is. I suppose if you want the defensive strength of the Staff and want to use a particular off-hand you can justify using the Sceptre over the GS, but that’s about it.

Embolism.8106:

I don’t think there is any doubt that the Sceptre can be used and can be used well. The question is whether another weapon can do the job better.

You can certainly achieve a significant amount of DPS with just Ether Bolt, but is it better than Spatial Surge DPS? The answer is actually yes, at close range. At longer ranges however Spatial Surge takes over, plus it also has 33% more range, is hitscan and is unreflectable.

What about Illusionary Counter? Obviously this is comparing apples to oranges, but let’s compare it to Mirror Blade. In terms of damage they are not dissimilar, but Mirror Blade has a shorter CD and stacks Might and Vulnerability. Illusionary Counter has a longer (effective) range and blocks an attack: it also roots you for short time when it triggers. Overall, if damage is what you want, Mirror Blade will likely give you more of it.

As for Confusing Images, it is actually quite damaging in Power or condition builds. The problem is, as mentioned multiple times, it is depressingly easy to avoid by any competent opponent.

Another thing to consider is Clones. Even in a Shatter build this is significant, as Clones will generally get a few attacks off before they get Shattered. In this department, with Sharper Images, the Greatsword is vastly superior over the Sceptre.

Generally, the GS is just a superior ranged DPS weapon than the Sceptre is. I suppose if you want the defensive strength of the Staff and want to use a particular off-hand you can justify using the Sceptre over the GS, but that’s about it.

I hope you realize that you are comparing a two handed weapon to a 1 handed mainhand. There is no weapon you can compare the Scepter with in the Mesmer set because it is the ONLY 1 handed range main we have. You can’t compare it with the sword either because one is melee one is not..

I am with Seven here, I use the Scepter and I like it.. I also dueled him with my thief when he was using it and he used it quite effectively.

dank.3680:

Embolism.8106:

I don’t think there is any doubt that the Sceptre can be used and can be used well. The question is whether another weapon can do the job better.

You can certainly achieve a significant amount of DPS with just Ether Bolt, but is it better than Spatial Surge DPS? The answer is actually yes, at close range. At longer ranges however Spatial Surge takes over, plus it also has 33% more range, is hitscan and is unreflectable.

What about Illusionary Counter? Obviously this is comparing apples to oranges, but let’s compare it to Mirror Blade. In terms of damage they are not dissimilar, but Mirror Blade has a shorter CD and stacks Might and Vulnerability. Illusionary Counter has a longer (effective) range and blocks an attack: it also roots you for short time when it triggers. Overall, if damage is what you want, Mirror Blade will likely give you more of it.

As for Confusing Images, it is actually quite damaging in Power or condition builds. The problem is, as mentioned multiple times, it is depressingly easy to avoid by any competent opponent.

Another thing to consider is Clones. Even in a Shatter build this is significant, as Clones will generally get a few attacks off before they get Shattered. In this department, with Sharper Images, the Greatsword is vastly superior over the Sceptre.

Generally, the GS is just a superior ranged DPS weapon than the Sceptre is. I suppose if you want the defensive strength of the Staff and want to use a particular off-hand you can justify using the Sceptre over the GS, but that’s about it.

I hope you realize that you are comparing a two handed weapon to a 1 handed mainhand. There is no weapon you can compare the Scepter with in the Mesmer set because it is the ONLY 1 handed range main we have. You can’t compare it with the sword either because one is melee one is not..

I am with Seven here, I use the Scepter and I like it.. I also dueled him with my thief when he was using it and he used it quite effectively.

It’s crazy how far a scepter opinion thread can get de-railed, right? Dank and all the [envy] guys are the real deal. Some of the best PvP’ers I’ve come up against. Just keep smoking people with the scepter, Dank and Andro and Moutza… lol.

To everyone else, keep using a greatsword. Yes… yes… It is far superior.

drums fingertips together

dank.3680:

Embolism.8106:

I don’t think there is any doubt that the Sceptre can be used and can be used well. The question is whether another weapon can do the job better.

You can certainly achieve a significant amount of DPS with just Ether Bolt, but is it better than Spatial Surge DPS? The answer is actually yes, at close range. At longer ranges however Spatial Surge takes over, plus it also has 33% more range, is hitscan and is unreflectable.

What about Illusionary Counter? Obviously this is comparing apples to oranges, but let’s compare it to Mirror Blade. In terms of damage they are not dissimilar, but Mirror Blade has a shorter CD and stacks Might and Vulnerability. Illusionary Counter has a longer (effective) range and blocks an attack: it also roots you for short time when it triggers. Overall, if damage is what you want, Mirror Blade will likely give you more of it.

As for Confusing Images, it is actually quite damaging in Power or condition builds. The problem is, as mentioned multiple times, it is depressingly easy to avoid by any competent opponent.

Another thing to consider is Clones. Even in a Shatter build this is significant, as Clones will generally get a few attacks off before they get Shattered. In this department, with Sharper Images, the Greatsword is vastly superior over the Sceptre.

Generally, the GS is just a superior ranged DPS weapon than the Sceptre is. I suppose if you want the defensive strength of the Staff and want to use a particular off-hand you can justify using the Sceptre over the GS, but that’s about it.

I hope you realize that you are comparing a two handed weapon to a 1 handed mainhand. There is no weapon you can compare the Scepter with in the Mesmer set because it is the ONLY 1 handed range main we have. You can’t compare it with the sword either because one is melee one is not..

I am with Seven here, I use the Scepter and I like it.. I also dueled him with my thief when he was using it and he used it quite effectively.

You of course read my last paragraph? I didn’t state it outright but it should be obvious I acknowledged the Sceptre as the only ranged MH.

In any case, I don’t think my comparison is invalid: your MH determines your Clone and your autoattack, so those two are most certainly comparable. Other skills are far more subjective, but that’s how it is.

@Grimms et al: My personal opinion would be to use neither the scepter nor the greatsword. I prefer my weapons to be a bit more balanced in terms of offense and defense (and I’m not talking from my tank build right now). I would use a staff instead, simply because it has high damage potential from the warlock scaling nicely, and also has great defense from chaos storm, chaos armor, and phase retreat.

However, if I had to choose between greatsword and scepter+offhand, greatsword would win every time. It does more damage, it has longer range, and it has more utility in terms of boon stripping/knockbacks.

I just started leveling a Mesmer today. Currently only lvl 22, but I have all the weapon skills unlocked.

I don’t like the Scepter at all compared to my Guardian’s. It just attacks too slow and it’s damage isn’t that impressive.

I’m been running around with the Greatsword and Staff and both weapons synergize very well IMHO. Tried the Sword + every off-hand and I’m too squishy right now to be using it.

The only thing that SUCKS is the lack of run speed boosts so you basically have to use a focus offhand in WvW. >_<

Embolism.8106:

dank.3680:

Embolism.8106:

I don’t think there is any doubt that the Sceptre can be used and can be used well. The question is whether another weapon can do the job better.

You can certainly achieve a significant amount of DPS with just Ether Bolt, but is it better than Spatial Surge DPS? The answer is actually yes, at close range. At longer ranges however Spatial Surge takes over, plus it also has 33% more range, is hitscan and is unreflectable.

What about Illusionary Counter? Obviously this is comparing apples to oranges, but let’s compare it to Mirror Blade. In terms of damage they are not dissimilar, but Mirror Blade has a shorter CD and stacks Might and Vulnerability. Illusionary Counter has a longer (effective) range and blocks an attack: it also roots you for short time when it triggers. Overall, if damage is what you want, Mirror Blade will likely give you more of it.

As for Confusing Images, it is actually quite damaging in Power or condition builds. The problem is, as mentioned multiple times, it is depressingly easy to avoid by any competent opponent.

Another thing to consider is Clones. Even in a Shatter build this is significant, as Clones will generally get a few attacks off before they get Shattered. In this department, with Sharper Images, the Greatsword is vastly superior over the Sceptre.

Generally, the GS is just a superior ranged DPS weapon than the Sceptre is. I suppose if you want the defensive strength of the Staff and want to use a particular off-hand you can justify using the Sceptre over the GS, but that’s about it.

I hope you realize that you are comparing a two handed weapon to a 1 handed mainhand. There is no weapon you can compare the Scepter with in the Mesmer set because it is the ONLY 1 handed range main we have. You can’t compare it with the sword either because one is melee one is not..

I am with Seven here, I use the Scepter and I like it.. I also dueled him with my thief when he was using it and he used it quite effectively.

You of course read my last paragraph? I didn’t state it outright but it should be obvious I acknowledged the Sceptre as the only ranged MH.

In any case, I don’t think my comparison is invalid: your MH determines your Clone and your autoattack, so those two are most certainly comparable. Other skills are far more subjective, but that’s how it is.

My point is you can’t compare a 2h to a 1h main because the offhand can drastically change the role you play and the flow of your combat.

But aside from that, you show me Mirror Blade completely negating a Backstab or CND or any thing else like that while also dealing good damage, then I will agree that the GS is a better weapon then the Scepter in all ways.

GS has it’s role and is an awesome weapon, I can’t and won’t argue with that. But for my particular playstyle which is to jump right in the middle of 10 people and go to town, the GS actually has a lot of drawbacks that the Scepter doesn’t share in that situation.

Not everyone is going to like the Scepter, it has a drastically different playstyle then the commonly used weapons. But my point in this thread is that it is not trash. I would agree that it could use a projectile speed increase on the auto, and a channeling speed increase on Confusing Images, but I could live without any changes too.

dank.3680:

My point is you can’t compare a 2h to a 1h main because the offhand can drastically change the role you play and the flow of your combat.

But aside from that, you show me Mirror Blade completely negating a Backstab or CND or any thing else like that while also dealing good damage, then I will agree that the GS is a better weapon then the Scepter in all ways.

GS has it’s role and is an awesome weapon, I can’t and won’t argue with that. But for my particular playstyle which is to jump right in the middle of 10 people and go to town, the GS actually has a lot of drawbacks that the Scepter doesn’t share in that situation.

Not everyone is going to like the Scepter, it has a drastically different playstyle then the commonly used weapons. But my point in this thread is that it is not trash. I would agree that it could use a projectile speed increase on the auto, and a channeling speed increase on Confusing Images, but I could live without any changes too.

I understand the versatility of an off-hand can bring, hence why I acknowledged that the Sceptre, despite my misgivings about it, has a place when you want a particular off-hand as well as the Staff.

My comparison of Mirror Blade and Illusionary Counter was in response to Seven, as he was talking about using Illusionary Counter offensively. The two skills are apples and oranges and cannot be compared as a whole. In terms of just damage however, Mirror Blade will give you more.

But that goes back to what I said originally about GS + Sword doing what Sceptre does. Blurred Frenzy vs Illusionary Counter: the comparison is still very much apples and oranges, but I feel Blurred Frenzy is just generally more useful.

By itself the Sceptre is not “trash”, the problem is whether it actually fulfills a unique role or not. You mentioned that the Sceptre has a drastically different playstyle… I assume by this you mean it is a more up-close-and-personal form of ranged DPS than the GS is, but I don’t feel it actually does this better.

If up close and personal dps is your goal, as you said with “Jumping into the middle of 10 people and going to town” then the sword is infinitely better than the scepter. You have more mobility, more damage, more combo finishers, and more defense. With that sort of playing, there is literally nothing the scepter does better than the sword.

Pyroatheist.9031:

If up close and personal dps is your goal, as you said with “Jumping into the middle of 10 people and going to town” then the sword is infinitely better than the scepter. You have more mobility, more damage, more combo finishers, and more defense. With that sort of playing, there is literally nothing the scepter does better than the sword.

Indeed. The Sword is better equipped to deal with multiple opponents: Illusionary Counter blocks a single attack, while Blurred Frenzy evades everything (on a shorter CD). Confusing Images is not something you want to start channeling in the middle of a group, while Illusionary Leap’s teleport and leap finisher can serve you quite well.

Of course, there’s the fact that the Sceptre is ranged, but if you want to play a ranged game… well, that goes back to all the talk about GS vs Sceptre.

It’s why I would like to see the scepter bounce between targets or cause a sort of aoe damage affect that has a small radius around the person you’re hitting. I think the scepter is a great weapon but it being single target is it’s weakness.

The bolts are fairly slow and of course there is the shorter range. I do longer distance almost instant higher damage using a greatsword. I find it odd that the scepter involves power damage when the number 3 ability is about condition.

It’s like it doesn’t know what it wants to be, If you want shorter ranged power damage the sword obviously makes more sense, multi-target, high damage. If you want ranged power damage you’d go for greatsword, longer range, instant damage, more damage.

If you want ranged condition damage, apart from the confusion on nr 3, staff does better condition damage + it’s multi-target as well.

All the other weapons tend to do all these things better than the scepter. I like the scepter though, it makes for interesting play and it’s not useless either as some people say I do think it could do with either making it multi target or adding condition to the auto-attack.

I know it’s meant for shattering but although it produces clones well enough it’s still considerably slow when you could just as easily dodge to create clones, use utility or the other weapon abilities to create clones faster making the auto-attack feel slow and almost redundant.

so scepter is ok-nice in direct damage builds, great. could we get a ok-nice condition weapon set besides staff? :\

Pyroatheist.9031:

If up close and personal dps is your goal, as you said with “Jumping into the middle of 10 people and going to town” then the sword is infinitely better than the scepter. You have more mobility, more damage, more combo finishers, and more defense. With that sort of playing, there is literally nothing the scepter does better than the sword.

Except that it takes a 2 seconds to blow everything useful the sword has swap-leap-frenzy which are always used together for the most part.. Then if you want to stay with the sword you are forced to be in melee range to keep applying damage, which most of the time is a suicidal move. Then if your target decides to use a movement ability to gain some distance from you, you are now worthless with that sword, whereas I can still be doing damage with the scepter.

I actually do already use the sword though.. I mentioned earlier my set is sword/torch scepter/sword. All 4 of my weapons in this setup have specific uses and all 4 have a great synergy together and create a flow of combat that I absolutely love.

I’ll sometimes run GS-Sword/Sword which is also great, but for me the set has different purposes. Basically I switch to this when I have a lot of people that keep running away from me because the GS shines as a “chaser weapon”.

The beauty of the sc/sw sw/tc in my build is that on both sets I have a high dps output while at the same time both sets have massively defensive abilities which together mitigate a ton of potential incoming damage.

I personally don’t like comparing any of the Mesmer weapons to each other because imo they are all great and all have different things they shine at.. I’ve run with every weapon combination possible along with tons of different builds and at no time with any of them did I feel I was putting myself at a disadvantage using them.

Like I said in an earlier post I generally change my build around (and my weapon sets) on a daily basis, though I’ve been using my current setup for around 3 days solid so far because I’m having so much fun with it.. I do this because I love them all and like to keep it fresh.. I think I have something like 14 exotic weapons on my Mesmer…

grimmson.9154:

so scepter is ok-nice in direct damage builds, great. could we get a ok-nice condition weapon set besides staff? :\

I’ll agree it doesn’t do a very good job in a condition build and that Mesmer lacks a 1 handed main condition applying weapon. I actually view the Scepter-3 as a temporary shutdown skill rather then a condition damage one..

I have been using a scepter in PvE because it fits my gamestyle – standing behind my clones and phantasms and dealing ranged damage. With EB and IC creating clones for me to shatter and CI dealing quite a lot of damage, it worked. Since foes in PvE rarely evade/block and like to group in one place, it was rather plain sailing.

Well, twice the pride double the fall… WvW has clearly shown that I have loads to learn and that my scepter is not good enough. Or I am not good enough with it.

This thread has nicely outlined and summarised all the problems I had with my scepter: EB and IC are rather slow and Confusing Images only work with mobs – individual players easily evade/block it. Having read what you have written here I decided to give sword a try and so far it seems to be a far better option for wvw.

Thanks a lot and sorry for not using all the proper terminology, I am a fairly new forum reader.

@Zirael:
I have been trying out the scepter a bit in wvwvw and I’ve picked up a few things. The key to using it are timely activation of #2 and #3. #2 is a little clunky (slow), but not too bad. I think it’s the best scepter skill in PVP. The trickier key is getting #3 to connect. It actually does better damage than sword #2, so try getting your opponents to burn their dodges/evades on weaker attacks. For me that usually means starting with a leap/BF combo and perhaps coming out of The Prestige on top of them.

It still doesn’t feel as good as staff to me, but I’m starting to get the hang of it. I think it still needs work, tho, and still support my earlier posts in this topic for some minor improvements.

Thanks Seven and Dank for speaking up here about the usefulness of the weapons a lot of people seem to want to hate on lol I like scepter, I like torch, I like all the mesmer weapons really, they all have a role to play.

Dank, what kind of build are you running?

Kazhiel.8194:

Thanks Seven and Dank for speaking up here about the usefulness of the weapons a lot of people seem to want to hate on lol I like scepter, I like torch, I like all the mesmer weapons really, they all have a role to play.

Dank, what kind of build are you running?

I’m currently using 0, 20 II-X, 20 IV-VII, 25 VI IV, 5.. Using a mix of Knights/Valk with a few pvt thrown in to basically keep at least 45% + crit chance and have 40% crit damage (which I’m saving gold to change out some gear to raise that in trade for toughness).. Atm with that setup I have 21.5k hp with 2850ish armor.. The one stat which lacks is power sitting at about 2900 attack atm but I use bloodlust to offset that.. Oh btw I have to use master maint oils in this setup to get my crit % where I want it. I use Lemongrass poultry to offset the lack of condition removal..

I have guildies who use the same weapons in a full PVT setup with a drastically different trait build and they also have great success..

jportell.2197:

Please do. I would love for someone to give me a reason to wield a scepter. Its the only weapon I haven’t really given a chance yet.

http://www.youtube.com/kyliad

20+ video’s using Scepter from October to current.

dank.3680:

Kazhiel.8194:

Thanks Seven and Dank for speaking up here about the usefulness of the weapons a lot of people seem to want to hate on lol I like scepter, I like torch, I like all the mesmer weapons really, they all have a role to play.

Dank, what kind of build are you running?

I’m currently using 0, 20 II-X, 20 IV-VII, 25 VI IV, 5.. Using a mix of Knights/Valk with a few pvt thrown in to basically keep at least 45% + crit chance and have 40% crit damage (which I’m saving gold to change out some gear to raise that in trade for toughness).. Atm with that setup I have 21.5k hp with 2850ish armor.. The one stat which lacks is power sitting at about 2900 attack atm but I use bloodlust to offset that.. Oh btw I have to use master maint oils in this setup to get my crit % where I want it. I use Lemongrass poultry to offset the lack of condition removal..

I have guildies who use the same weapons in a full PVT setup with a drastically different trait build and they also have great success..

Been running your build this evening in wvw but with knights gear, mix of rabid, soldiers, and berserker weapons, most accessories are soldiers. Works pretty nice, I did use II in inspiration for faster glamour recharge and used veil and null field for combo fields. Mirror Images for third utility and Mass Invis for elite. I don’t really understand why veil gives chaos armor when the tooltip says it’s a light field, doesn’t light field give retaliation? Ethereal field gives chaos armor? o.o But I’m not going to complain. Attached is my stats with the precision food and maintenance oil.

Veil’s tooltip is bugged, it’s an Ethereal Field.

@dank:
I’m using a very similar trait loadout and gear set, but I have less focus on phantasms. Basically, 0/20/20/20/10 with +3% damager per illusion and Blade Training instead of phant fury since I run both MH and OH sword.

I found that since I started using this build, I don’t shatter very often and almost always have +9% damage. I never liked relying on pet damage, but I guess that’s more of a personal choice. It would allow more of my damage to be automated which would be nice though, so I may have to try that out. Still, I love BF on 8s CD.

One question though. You say you use food to offset lack of condition removal, but it looks like you have Mender’s Purity. Do you find that is not enough? Seem like another food would be more valuable, and you can always go MoRecovery w/RM in a clutch.

I had an sPvP hybrid shatter spam build (Carrion) with Torch and Decoy.

It was fun. I even slotted the cooldown reduction on Torch when I didn’t want boon strips (well, this was rare). Fun times.

EasymodeX.4062:

I had an sPvP hybrid shatter spam build (Carrion) with Torch and Decoy.

It was fun. I even slotted the cooldown reduction on Torch when I didn’t want boon strips (well, this was rare). Fun times.

Were you able to do any significant damage with that build? The condition damage scaling for confusion inside of sPvP is just abysmal.

Moderate damage — enough to break through bunker Guardians with sustain.

Basic build went like this:

- Carrion
- Mental Torment
- Confusion duration 33%
- IP
- Deceptive Evasion
- Adventurer runes
- Energy Sigils (w/e that 50% endurance on swap)
- Staff // Sword/Torch
- Shatter reset

20/20/0/0/30

Build developed as an extension of “pure IP”. The one curiosity of 30 Illusion + IP is that you are always stuck with F1 (power) and F2 (condition). With 20 Dom, your F3 will always enhance power further. With 15 Illu, all your shatters will throw on more confusion. You can’t get away from this, and none of it is based on SI, so no demand for precision.

So I tacked Carrion onto the build to basically enhance both, along with unlimited clone works. I could basically F1-F4 on cooldown, interleaved with Blurred Frenzy and nearly unlimited dodges. Decoy + Torch made for absurd target drops, and 5k+ burning on Prestige is nothing to scoff at … especially when it’s backed by a 6k IP Mind Wrack. The raw condition damage was also delivered via Staff attacks, staff clones, and the poison Chaos Storm — so a lot more delivery vectors than just the confusion.

Guardians are always obnoxious, but they can’t fight through literally a non-stop zerg of clones — even if they have GS and can pop waves of them; I could summon even more, or facetank them with Blurred Frenzy. Boon stripping is particularly key for guardians ofc, and I only swapped in the Torch trait rarely. Forcing the target to use abilities to clear clones was an additional synergy with the confusion.

The weakness of the build (aside from being caught flat-footed by a backstab thief) is that you can actually spend too much time defending (dodge dodge dodge), which lowers damage output.

It’s not really a finished build though, because I think it could be optimized further, but I stopped playing it, so it’s collecting metaphysical dust.

Gaiawolf.8261:

One question though. You say you use food to offset lack of condition removal, but it looks like you have Mender’s Purity. Do you find that is not enough? Seem like another food would be more valuable, and you can always go MoRecovery w/RM in a clutch.

I’m not Dank but while running his build last night I never felt like I needed more condition removal. When I was solo and small group roaming I used his build as he stated but I used precision food and oil, utilities were mirror images, veil, and blink. The stealths gave me time to let conditions fall off that it didn’t seem problematic, I also have sigil of generosity on one of my swords. I’m used to running with no reliable condition removal so it didn’t bother me. Later when I was participating in defending bay against enemy Zerg I swapped in null field in replace of blink for a little added team support.