Guild Wars 2

I recently used scepter/pistol in world events, because after using using gs/sw+sw(sw+pistol, sw+toch etc) i wanted to maintain distance AND avoid timeholes where u just stand around waitning for the next weapon swap.

while waiting for the boss to spawn i stacked my 25 precision stack and doing pre events. during those pre events the already awful feeling about scepter(compared to sw/sw for example) getting worse and worse.

scepter still is terrbile handling.
awfully long animations before doing any damage at all.

the damage itself seems to be awkward too. looks good on numbers but practically it feels like doin nothing. while others just rampage thru the mob, the scepter-mesmer looks like he is preparing a really big thing just to end up shooting holes in the air on an already dead mob…doh). it even feels as if its not a distance weapon, but no melee weapon either. so what is it?

is scepter really THAT bad?
in combination with pistol (or torch or focus if needed) it could be a pretty cool setup for mid to long range together with greatsword. but i see some synergy issues too.

and that handling…omg i dont wanna know how it feels in dungeons, not to speak of fractals.

No scepter is not terrible at all. It’s absolutely amazing at what it does. But it mainyis a condition weapon, so using in PvE is the first mistake. There are exceptions to this, but those are only in pvp. In dungeons and fractals you’re gonna be using a main hand sword+sword/focus setup, so you have to get used to meleeing mobs anyways.

If you want to PvE just take an entirely different class.

So, mesmer have to avoid using certain weapons in PvE? And one should avoid playing mesmer in PvE? w t f

AnniMira.2506:

So, mesmer have to avoid using certain weapons in PvE? And one should avoid playing mesmer in PvE? w t f

No and no. But if you want to discuss optimization then possibly yes and possibly yes.

Yes, after the recent buffs I feel Scepter works really well but it is a condition weapon. As such it isn’t suited for situations where other players also apply conditions due to the usual issues unless they apply entirely different ones.

Well, you actually did tell them to use a different class in PvE. Why?

I actually started to use scepter and staff yesterday – and enjoy them. Some months ago I purposedly tried to learn to use scepter, focus, and staff in PvE, but had to stop within an hour.

I switched to scepter because I wanted to have one-handed ranged weapon in WvW. People said it is a condi weapon, and so I have now full rapid gear. Rapid was choice because I wanted toughness as well. Precision is nice too. Runes are Balthazar as suggested by Vashury. I use torch as well.

I use Earth and Frailty in staff – 2 sec cooldown just looked promising. Scepter has Fire; Torch has Smoldering.

I like the visual effects of scepter and staff. The purple balls fly to where you look at – when no foes around. Looks great. Skins are Princess Wand, of course, and Imryldyeen.

I just noobly hit scepter 1,2,3 when they are out of cooldown. Swap to staff for 1,2,3. Sometimes I press 4 for the great visual. Have not yet used staff 5. And in EotM yesterday, the scepter seemed to work well. It could be the block of scepter 2 which helped most.

Traits are 0 2 6 0 6 – see my other post for motivation. PU and IP are the mains here. I’m willing to test MoD instead of IP.

Duelling has III – retaliatory shield – I hope it works with scepter 2.

Chaos has III, VIII, XII. The first two III and VIII are just random selections. Faster blink. I don’t even know how to interrupt in this build. What would be better choises? V and X?

Illusions has II, VII, XI. Retaliation and one additional bounce.

I find scepter useful in both pvp and pve. I guess my build works well with it. Staying at rang with my hybrid build works is how i like to play right now.

I use it with either sp/p or sp/f.

How I play it is before I use the skill 3,
- with focus, i always drop TC down, this helps in so many ways, reflection of on coming damages, gain swiftness and pull mob/s.
- with pistol, I always use MB, for the stun which give me enough time.

This response is for wvw only. I have been using scepter in a power build. The auto attack works better closer yet not as close as standing flailing around your sword. 2 is a mobile breather and the block creates a clone, the only other main hand option roots you in place with an evade. 3 hits harder than all sword skills, landing the channel is an issue but baiting or stealthed use helps. In wvw with our vast main hand options scepter is imo better than sword (wvw). But the speed of the aa delivery needs tweaking.

denis.9487:

This response is for wvw only. I have been using scepter in a power build. The auto attack works better closer yet not as close as standing flailing around your sword. 2 is a mobile breather and the block creates a clone, the only other main hand option roots you in place with an evade. 3 hits harder than all sword skills, landing the channel is an issue but baiting or stealthed use helps. In wvw with our vast main hand options scepter is imo better than sword (wvw). But the speed of the aa delivery needs tweaking.

Am guessing you mean tweaking speed plus the condition it applies cause you know if they increase the speed on the AA and with it applying torment, people will complain and cry for a nerf fast.

Ross Biddle.2367:

If you want to PvE just take an entirely different class.

Leveled a ranger recently to 80, but i already had a warrior, a guardian and an engineer on 80 before i stopped playing gw2 for almost a year now. so thats not that sort of a problem. mesmer was just my first and “main” so to say.

Just a quick test you can also. 3 scepter clones keep 3 torment on golem. 3 staff clones kept 9 bleeds 4 vulnerability and perma burn. This on a stationary target far from what happens in an active environment. Not factoring clones picking up other targets. The speed needs tweaking on the scepter. Was in power gear more condition duration just favors the staff more.

rainpool.7189:

No scepter is not terrible at all. It’s absolutely amazing at what it does. But it mainyis a condition weapon, so using in PvE is the first mistake. There are exceptions to this, but those are only in pvp. In dungeons and fractals you’re gonna be using a main hand sword+sword/focus setup, so you have to get used to meleeing mobs anyways.

thats what i played til i stopped playin gw2. either this setup or sw/sw as second. i did a few fractals, but it wasnt quite a joy with mesmer tbh.

thing is, i somehow like the combination scepter/pistol wiht gs, but scepter feels so kitten awful. like its desing wasnt finished or they could decide for which purpose other than “hey lets give mesmer scepter too”.

i always recommended to switch places of scepter 1 and scepter 3 attack, tweaking the animation so it gets rid of these awful delay and of course changing the damage a bit.

I always figured that for scepter they wanted a way for new Mesmers to immediately starting making illusions so they could start using the mechanic straight away and then threw two more skills together for it. Hence why it didn’t really have a purpose until they turned it into a condi weapon with torment.

Levetty.1279:

I always figured that for scepter they wanted a way for new Mesmers to immediately starting making illusions so they could start using the mechanic straight away and then threw two more skills together for it. Hence why it didn’t really have a purpose until they turned it into a condi weapon with torment.

It had confusion on AA in beta, and confusion was at full power in wvw on release (though confusion on aa wasnt). Scepter 2 hit as hard as OH sword 4 on release and was nerfed sometime later (When torment came in I think).

You know nothing John Snow.

I mained scepter/torch staff (later changing to scepter/torch sword/focus) in WvW on release using full rabid confusion shatter, and i WAS the anti D/D culling thief meta. Not to mention counter to anything I crossed paths with :p up to 1v5 (no, no PU back then)

Scepter’s never been weak, though it has, in some ways, altered dramatically over its direct and indirect changes.

AnniMira.2506:

So, mesmer have to avoid using certain weapons in PvE? And one should avoid playing mesmer in PvE? w t f

Mesmer is a kitten pve class because pvp’ers whine about mesmers 24/7 even though they’re not a top tier pvp class, just a good duelist class. And people hate good duelist classes no matter what because most people just care about winning 1v1’s.

Also, mesmer is a target for nerfing because it’s a very hard class to deal with for beginners, the clones can be overwhelming so people who haven’t practiced think it’s broken.

Zenith.7301:

And people hate good duelist classes no matter what because most people just care about winning 1v1’s.

Sadly this.
PvP games could be improved a lot by making 1v1 a tracked offence. That is to say, it counts as strikes against your account if you 1v1 a lot instead of fleeing and coming back with a superior tactical setup. Nothing happens on its own but if you suffer any actual infraction these strikes are factored in for determining how long you’ll be out.

Players would hate it, but it’d improve the game a lot.
Alternatively, NPC snipers auto-kill the winner of a duel for being stupid and standing around damaged and alone.

My joy about scepter/staff was short. Here is combat log about situation in which I went to tower to safe when 3 enemies in WvW approached. I had full rapid. Compare the damage done by enemy and done by my mesmer.

(necro) critically hits you for 1,200 using [Necrotic Grasp]
(necro) hits you for 620 using [Necrotic Grasp]
(necro) hits you for 56 using [Bleeding]
(necro) critically hits you for 1,097 using [Necrotic Grasp]

At this point I was safe. When enemy warrior was alone, I attacked:

You critically hit (warrior) for 158 using [Winds of Chaos]
You hit (warrior) for 252 using [Bleeding]
You hit (warrior) for 252 using [Bleeding]
You critically hit (warrior) for 2 using Winds of Chaos
You hit (warrior) for 252 using [Bleeding]
You hit (warrior) for 107 using [Winds of Chaos]
You hit (warrior) for 378 using [Bleeding]
You hit (warrior) for 103 using [Winds of Chaos]
You hit (warrior) for 504 using [Bleeding]
You hit (warrior) for 378 using [Bleeding]
You critically hit (warrior) for 2 using Winds of Chaos

After staff I switched to scepter, but apparently it did not hit because warrior moved sideways and slow projectiles were too slow. I checked that warrior’s health did stay at 100% – no signs about damage done by me.

Every class has to avoid using specific weapons in PvE if they want to optimize. We can still be pretty good with scepter in PvE, or as good as any condi weapon can be, but in PvP scepter is still strong.

AnniMira.2506:

My joy about scepter/staff was short. Here is combat log about situation in which I went to tower to safe when 3 enemies in WvW approached. I had full rapid. Compare the damage done by enemy and done by my mesmer.

(necro) critically hits you for 1,200 using [Necrotic Grasp]
(necro) hits you for 620 using [Necrotic Grasp]
(necro) hits you for 56 using [Bleeding]
(necro) critically hits you for 1,097 using [Necrotic Grasp]

At this point I was safe. When enemy warrior was alone, I attacked:

You critically hit (warrior) for 158 using [Winds of Chaos]
You hit (warrior) for 252 using [Bleeding]
You hit (warrior) for 252 using [Bleeding]
You critically hit (warrior) for 2 using Winds of Chaos
You hit (warrior) for 252 using [Bleeding]
You hit (warrior) for 107 using [Winds of Chaos]
You hit (warrior) for 378 using [Bleeding]
You hit (warrior) for 103 using [Winds of Chaos]
You hit (warrior) for 504 using [Bleeding]
You hit (warrior) for 378 using [Bleeding]
You critically hit (warrior) for 2 using Winds of Chaos

After staff I switched to scepter, but apparently it did not hit because warrior moved sideways and slow projectiles were too slow. I checked that warrior’s health did stay at 100% – no signs about damage done by me.

Re: Staff. Your WoC bleeding procs, even without food/crystals, will do around 900 damage over 8 seconds. Showing damage logs for less time will obviously skew data towards direct damage attacks.

Re: Scepter. Use more than the auto attack. The torment from scepter 2 will do between 4,000-8,000 damage depending on if the enemy is moving. 5 stacks of Confusion from Scepter 3 will do over 800 damage per skill used by the enemy, and can last for over 10 seconds.

Practice more. Both of these weapons, for condi users, are extremely powerful.

Yes the damage from bleeding accumulates but warrior’s health did stay at 100%. No damage whatsoever. If warrior used some auto-healing, the health bar would have jumped down and up a tiny amount?

Scepter did not even hit. Guess I have to hit in their running direction, not sideways.

The practice part is sort of like saying learn to play. Sadly learning to play works for both sides. That confusion beam screams dodge me. The block also needs to land, then you need to stay still no dodge roll to apply the block, the block is countered by enemy dodge rolling. The only thing left is the slow speed of the aa. Needs some speed love.

In WvW, the lord chests seems to be based on damage. If acceptable total damage comes in 8 seconds, it is goodbye to chests. Most tower lords are down pretty quickly.

AnniMira.2506:

Yes the damage from bleeding accumulates but warrior’s health did stay at 100%. No damage whatsoever. If warrior used some auto-healing, the health bar would have jumped down and up a tiny amount?

Scepter did not even hit. Guess I have to hit in their running direction, not sideways.

Obviously the combat log disagrees, as the bleeding did tick. The log also only shows the first 3 hits of the staff auto attack, and the condition damage from merely the first two…not exactly the longest interval for a damage-over-time weapon. The staff auto has pretty good condition damage, and if you trait for the bouncing attacks, it will eat anything without condition removals.

RE: Scepter, I have no trouble hitting anyone with the auto attack as long as they aren’t dodging or out of range.

AnniMira.2506:

In WvW, the lord chests seems to be based on damage. If acceptable total damage comes in 8 seconds, it is goodbye to chests. Most tower lords are down pretty quickly.

Condition damage and their weapon types aren’t typically recommended for PvE.

denis.9487:

The practice part is sort of like saying learn to play. Sadly learning to play works for both sides. That confusion beam screams dodge me. The block also needs to land, then you need to stay still no dodge roll to apply the block, the block is countered by enemy dodge rolling. The only thing left is the slow speed of the aa. Needs some speed love.

All skills in the game can be dodged, IIRC.

alanis.6094:

denis.9487:

The practice part is sort of like saying learn to play. Sadly learning to play works for both sides. That confusion beam screams dodge me. The block also needs to land, then you need to stay still no dodge roll to apply the block, the block is countered by enemy dodge rolling. The only thing left is the slow speed of the aa. Needs some speed love.

All skills in the game can be dodged, IIRC.

And some skills can be dodged just by mashing q and e. For mesmer scepter they don’t even have to be that far for it to be thrown off. It’s probably as easily avoidable as guardian scepter autos.

Kinda wish they homed in, like rifle autos. Scepter autos are horribad. Good thing its other skills are pretty kitten good.

If you see the classes that are less represented, it’s usually because their autoattacks, the meat of sustained damage in this game, suck.

The only scepter with remotely good sustained damage is the guardian one, but the projectiles are slow so guardian scepter plays closer. Guardian scepter autoattacks hit pretty kitten hard though, unlike mesmer staff and scepter which hit like wet noodles and require ample ramp up of conditions unlike necromancers and engineers who can frontload their condition stacks (mesmer only has iduelist to do so).

alanis.6094:

denis.9487:

The practice part is sort of like saying learn to play. Sadly learning to play works for both sides. That confusion beam screams dodge me. The block also needs to land, then you need to stay still no dodge roll to apply the block, the block is countered by enemy dodge rolling. The only thing left is the slow speed of the aa. Needs some speed love.

All skills in the game can be dodged, IIRC.

Your right. Sadly this is a scepter post so. Then all your left with is the terrible slow, awkward, pathetic aa.

denis.9487:

The practice part is sort of like saying learn to play. Sadly learning to play works for both sides. That confusion beam screams dodge me. The block also needs to land, then you need to stay still no dodge roll to apply the block, the block is countered by enemy dodge rolling. The only thing left is the slow speed of the aa. Needs some speed love.

So, lets take a couple parts of this post and put them together to create an effective strategy.

The confusion beam screams ‘dodge me’. It also does low damage in a condition build (yes, including the confusion) since confusion got nerfed into the ground and most players are intelligent enough not to proc it a ton anyway. So you use the confusion beam to bait out a dodge or two. After they dodge, now you catch an attack and hit them with the torment from the block.

Alternatively, you can proc the block on aoe fields, that way they can’t predict it coming. This is particularly effective on eles and guardians.

Alternatively, you can proc the block on skills that are in the middle of an animation, forcing them to make a hard choice: cancel the animation or eat the torment. If you block a thief trying to backstab you, they either have to dodge and lose the opportunity to try for a 2nd backstab or try for a 2nd backstab but eat a massive stack of torment. There’s a lot of skills that you can force a choice like this.

You can also proc the block from stealth, that way they can’t actually see it until they’re hit with the torment. This is obviously a bit more limited in application, but is a technique you can use nonetheless.

Basically, if you’re good enough, you’ll have no trouble landing the block all the time against any class other than mesmer. Mesmers are incredibly tough due to clones tending to eat the block really easily, but it is possible, even on a mes…just far more difficult.

Thanks for the free lesson. I will try and take those points and apply them, what then with the auto turn it off? Sadly the auto attack being clunky,slow, speed of the ball,the animation still needs addressing. Those features are great when they land that you speak of.

denis.9487:

Thanks for the free lesson. I will try and take those points and apply them, what then with the auto turn it off? Sadly the auto attack being clunky,slow, speed of the ball,the animation still needs addressing. Those features are great when they land that you speak of.

Yeah, keep the auto off at all times.

The autoattack on the scepter is absolutely, unconditionally awful. When I heard they were adding torment to it, I was dismayed, because it did absolutely nothing to fix the problems with it. It took an abysmally slow and awkward attack and made it an abysmally slow and awkward attack that also applies torment. Additionally, it means that fixing the scepter autoattack is now off of the dev’s to-do list, and they’ve gone home patting themselves on the back about how they fixed that one autoattack that everyone was complaining about. It’s really just a testament to how little the devs understand this class.

But I digress…

AnniMira.2506:

Scepter did not even hit. Guess I have to hit in their running direction, not sideways.

Rule of thumb with the Scepter is that if you need to use the auto-attack, you don’t. The auto-attack was buffed significantly but is still very very weak. Scepter is however extremely strong for the 2 and 3 skills.