Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Video-No-weapons-roaming-and-dueling

Eh, that thief was fighting hilariously bad people, I’d hardly call that representative of anything.

I do wonder if mesmer can achieve the same thing by having 3 clone death traits with DE (probably with energy sigil due to clone demands), mantra of distraction (plus harmonious mantra?) with perplexity, and condi duration food etc. But that would probably be pushing it since opponents need to be actively destroying clones.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I do wonder if mesmer can achieve the same thing by having 3 clone death traits with DE (probably with energy sigil due to clone demands), mantra of distraction (plus harmonious mantra?) with perplexity, and condi duration food etc. But that would probably be pushing it since opponents need to be actively destroying clones.

We’re so dependent on our weapon skills for survival, it’s work enough staying alive as is currently with a proper setup.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I do wonder if mesmer can achieve the same thing by having 3 clone death traits with DE (probably with energy sigil due to clone demands), mantra of distraction (plus harmonious mantra?) with perplexity, and condi duration food etc. But that would probably be pushing it since opponents need to be actively destroying clones.

You can’t create clones without a weapon.

Clownmug.8357:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I do wonder if mesmer can achieve the same thing by having 3 clone death traits with DE (probably with energy sigil due to clone demands), mantra of distraction (plus harmonious mantra?) with perplexity, and condi duration food etc. But that would probably be pushing it since opponents need to be actively destroying clones.

You can’t create clones without a weapon.

Really? Nothing happens if you decoy with no weapons?

Less to do with thief and more to do with Condi Dire/Perplex just being overpowered in roaming. Engi can do the same exact thing if not better.

Dondagora.9645:

Clownmug.8357:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I do wonder if mesmer can achieve the same thing by having 3 clone death traits with DE (probably with energy sigil due to clone demands), mantra of distraction (plus harmonious mantra?) with perplexity, and condi duration food etc. But that would probably be pushing it since opponents need to be actively destroying clones.

You can’t create clones without a weapon.

Really? Nothing happens if you decoy with no weapons?

It still stealths and stun breaks as if you used it untargeted.

DeceiverX.8361:

Less to do with thief and more to do with Condi Dire/Perplex just being overpowered in roaming. Engi can do the same exact thing if not better.

Feline Grace and Vigorous Recovery + Withdraw makes this a lot easier for thief than other classes. I don’t see how engineer would be better unless they’re using kits which would disqualify them from a “no weapons” challenge.

shatter build w full dmg (6 2 0 0 6) mirror image + decoy + blink

blink to enemy, decoy + mirror image + mindwrack- win

could kill zerkers!

(actually idk, worth a try tho)

Wyrden.4713:

shatter build w full dmg (6 2 0 0 6) mirror image + decoy + blink

blink to enemy, decoy + mirror image + mindwrack- win

could kill zerkers!

(actually idk, worth a try tho)

Ahah, tried for the lulz and mesmer doesn’t spawn clones without a weapon. I guess we could play mantras/lockdown or play with iDesenchanter + iDefender for shatters.

I demand kungkittenclones!

Krispera.5087:

Wyrden.4713:

shatter build w full dmg (6 2 0 0 6) mirror image + decoy + blink

blink to enemy, decoy + mirror image + mindwrack- win

could kill zerkers!

(actually idk, worth a try tho)

Ahah, tried for the lulz and mesmer doesn’t spawn clones without a weapon. I guess we could play mantras/lockdown or play with iDesenchanter + iDefender for shatters.

nooooOOOoooo

WvW “kill comp” videos are almost as lulz as glass mantra spec (not nearly as fun to watch though).

Clownmug.8357:

Dondagora.9645:

Clownmug.8357:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I do wonder if mesmer can achieve the same thing by having 3 clone death traits with DE (probably with energy sigil due to clone demands), mantra of distraction (plus harmonious mantra?) with perplexity, and condi duration food etc. But that would probably be pushing it since opponents need to be actively destroying clones.

You can’t create clones without a weapon.

Really? Nothing happens if you decoy with no weapons?

It still stealths and stun breaks as if you used it untargeted.

DeceiverX.8361:

Less to do with thief and more to do with Condi Dire/Perplex just being overpowered in roaming. Engi can do the same exact thing if not better.

Feline Grace and Vigorous Recovery + Withdraw makes this a lot easier for thief than other classes. I don’t see how engineer would be better unless they’re using kits which would disqualify them from a “no weapons” challenge.

No, what makes this work is Caltrops and interrupts on Sleight of Hand + BV + TW with Perplexity runes while just being tanky off of Dire gear. Engineers and mesmers have a substantially better utility exploit for Perplexity interrupt setups and more burst conditions.

It’s genuinely just Dire Perplex condi builds being overpowered in WvW roaming. As soon as these builds move to Carrion or Rabid specs and/or without Perplex they become fair if not relatively underwhelming. It’s a demonstration that class balance is pretty much futile as long as we have mechanics like this and hardcore might-stacking on defensive builds attached to gear which vastly supersedes other combinations.

I’m not defending condi thief, but this video has little to do with the evades as much as it has to do with the sheer killing potential of the abuse of a rune mechanic and how overall tanky dire gear is. Most of the evasion was used for offensive purposes for caltrops rather than defensively, demonstrating that evasion durability has little to do with the problem.

i bet you can kill ppl with mantra of pain and distraction trait for halting strikes

DeceiverX.8361:

Clownmug.8357:

Dondagora.9645:

Clownmug.8357:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I do wonder if mesmer can achieve the same thing by having 3 clone death traits with DE (probably with energy sigil due to clone demands), mantra of distraction (plus harmonious mantra?) with perplexity, and condi duration food etc. But that would probably be pushing it since opponents need to be actively destroying clones.

You can’t create clones without a weapon.

Really? Nothing happens if you decoy with no weapons?

It still stealths and stun breaks as if you used it untargeted.

DeceiverX.8361:

Less to do with thief and more to do with Condi Dire/Perplex just being overpowered in roaming. Engi can do the same exact thing if not better.

Feline Grace and Vigorous Recovery + Withdraw makes this a lot easier for thief than other classes. I don’t see how engineer would be better unless they’re using kits which would disqualify them from a “no weapons” challenge.

No, what makes this work is Caltrops and interrupts on Sleight of Hand + BV + TW with Perplexity runes while just being tanky off of Dire gear. Engineers and mesmers have a substantially better utility exploit for Perplexity interrupt setups and more burst conditions.

It’s genuinely just Dire Perplex condi builds being overpowered in WvW roaming. As soon as these builds move to Carrion or Rabid specs and/or without Perplex they become fair if not relatively underwhelming. It’s a demonstration that class balance is pretty much futile as long as we have mechanics like this and hardcore might-stacking on defensive builds attached to gear which vastly supersedes other combinations.

I’m not defending condi thief, but this video has little to do with the evades as much as it has to do with the sheer killing potential of the abuse of a rune mechanic and how overall tanky dire gear is. Most of the evasion was used for offensive purposes for caltrops rather than defensively, demonstrating that evasion durability has little to do with the problem.

You make it sound like the dodges did very little even though they’re the only thing keeping him alive and at the same time provide a way to constantly cover up the confusion stacks with cripple and bleeds.

No, I’m pretty sure having more than double the base health pool and almost 70% more armor and the person playing explicitly using caltrops as a means of dealing damage through every single fight and in many cases NOT avoiding key bombs or attemping to negate damage in many instances or not having the endurance to do so is clearly not the result of those traits and damage avoidance effects being “the only thing keeping him alive.”

Not to mention he got low on several occasions/took damage which would have killed him on any other build from what is the direct result of not dodging and keeping low on endurance.

You’re seriously just QQ’ing now about thief base acro dodges being OP when what carried this player was dire perplex in every single fight.

DeceiverX.8361:

No, I’m pretty sure having more than double the base health pool and almost 70% more armor and the person playing explicitly using caltrops as a means of dealing damage through every single fight and in many cases NOT avoiding key bombs or attemping to negate damage in many instances or not having the endurance to do so is clearly not the result of those traits and damage avoidance effects being “the only thing keeping him alive.”

Not to mention he got low on several occasions/took damage which would have killed him on any other build from what is the direct result of not dodging and keeping low on endurance.

You’re seriously just QQ’ing now about thief base acro dodges being OP when what carried this player was dire perplex in every single fight.

It seems to me the challenge of “no weapons” only works because of the combination of a dire + perplexity and lots of evasion is all I’m saying. I think you’re overestimating the survivability of dire gear but I’ll correct myself by saying dodging is the primary means of survival instead.

I can sympathize with wanting to defend a class you like but I also enjoy playing thief so don’t put words into my mouth about Acrobatics being OP.

Yeah, I think you’re both rather wrong. This thief isn’t surviving and killing people because of dire and perplex, nor are they doing it because of feline grace and dodge-trops.

The thief is managing to do this because all of the opponents recorded in this video have the tactical command of a potato and the playing ability of a chestnut.

Fay.2357:

The thief is managing to do this because all of the opponents recorded in this video have the tactical command of a potato and the playing ability of a chestnut.

lmao

But yeah, iirc the guy who made the video even said that this build (without using weapons) can’t kill anyone who’s actually prepared. He also said that for example one of the eles he dueled in the video only lost in their first duel… the next four duels, the ele won. But since this is supposed to be a just-for-fun-video, he obviously didn’t include the fights where he lost (except the one at the very end of the video). Then again; he also claims that if he’d have actually used weapons, he’d have had quite an easy time killing those people again and again. That might be or might not be; but Dire+Perplexity+lots of interrupts is indeed quite strong and kinda hard to counter for most people (if you also have some other means to apply pressure, that is; which is certainly the case with the bleeds from caltrops/dodgetrops (great wordcreation btw lol)).

Saturn.6591:

Fay.2357:

The thief is managing to do this because all of the opponents recorded in this video have the tactical command of a potato and the playing ability of a chestnut.

lmao

But yeah, iirc the guy who made the video even said that this build (without using weapons) can’t kill anyone who’s actually prepared. He also said that for example one of the eles he dueled in the video only lost in their first duel… the next four duels, the ele won. But since this is supposed to be a just-for-fun-video, he obviously didn’t include the fights where he lost (except the one at the very end of the video). Then again; he also claims that if he’d have actually used weapons, he’d have had quite an easy time killing those people again and again. That might be or might not be; but Dire+Perplexity+lots of interrupts is indeed quite strong and kinda hard to counter for most people (if you also have some other means to apply pressure, that is; which is certainly the case with the bleeds from caltrops/dodgetrops (great wordcreation btw lol)).

I think it goes without saying. Though comparing them to a potato might be a little too nice lol :P. P/D dire perplex thief is a disgustingly strong build which is extremely difficult to take down by any given class or build. While the people recorded weren’t playing well at all in those fights, it demonstrates that a given armor + rune setup is pretty out of control considering the recorder wasn’t exactly playing well either. It was funny and he was handicapped, but those plays were not exactly special. And in pretty much every fight he had, the dire gear’s durability kept him alive after taking damage. Weapons will help kill the enemy faster and maybe negate some hits, but beyond this, the damage taken would be pretty much identical. Given skilled players and the lack of aggressive evades, I’d say the outcomes would still have been similar.

Fay.2357:

Yeah, I think you’re both rather wrong. This thief isn’t surviving and killing people because of dire and perplex, nor are they doing it because of feline grace and dodge-trops.

The thief is managing to do this because all of the opponents recorded in this video have the tactical command of a potato and the playing ability of a chestnut.

You’re all wrong, but also partially right.

No matter how you spin it dire/perplex/condi is still a very potent and very strong combination. Yes those players were pretty bad, that is part of it but I highly doubt that this combination could even be remotely pulled off with anything other than dire+perplex.

If they weren’t using dire/perplex, even somebody with the tactical command of a potato could beat him or at worst not lose. The fact that you can actually beat that many people (regardless of how bad they are) without a weapon and make a video (and probably have enough footage for a second one) kind of tells you that certain mechanics/runes/other things need to be changed.

It isn’t just that they were bad or just because of dire/perplex it is the combination.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I do wonder if mesmer can achieve the same thing by having 3 clone death traits with DE (probably with energy sigil due to clone demands), mantra of distraction (plus harmonious mantra?) with perplexity, and condi duration food etc. But that would probably be pushing it since opponents need to be actively destroying clones.

So playing PU?

WhiteRose.6934:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I do wonder if mesmer can achieve the same thing by having 3 clone death traits with DE (probably with energy sigil due to clone demands), mantra of distraction (plus harmonious mantra?) with perplexity, and condi duration food etc. But that would probably be pushing it since opponents need to be actively destroying clones.

So playing PU?

Standard PUC builds dont trait 6 pts into Dueling, and also why would u take PU instead of CI if u intend to run Mantra of Distraction and Perplexity Runes.