Guild Wars 2

With these new Ferocity changes, it appears that there is going to be a much higher than expected nerf to critical damage from the previously thought 10%. Right now in small organized fights/roaming, a shatter mesmer brings three things to the table: AOE Vuln, Boonstrip, and Burst. While these changes to critical damage are not going to touch the first two, I am concerned about our potential burst.

With tanky condition builds already as prevalent as they are, I fear that a high reduction in burst damage that we bring to the table will make us become even more obsolete. I also fear that a lot of people are just going to now roll tanky condition builds, which mesmers already have a problem dealing with (without a heal-guard constantly keeping you alive). This, coupled with the fact that we are going to have reduced damage output, have me considering that shatter mesmer is going to get shafted hard by this patch.

Overall, these changes to critical damage have me fearing for shatter mesmers. It seems that I am going to be forced to either roll condition or lockdown builds now. If someone like Pyro could confirm just how much critical damage is going to be reduced that would be great.

Doing some basic numbers, I’m getting maximum critical damage modifiers around +85%. Currently you can boost that to 110% or so if you’re full out crit damage. Keeping in mind that there’s a base +50% to all crits, the overall change is roughly a 15% reduction in critical damage.

This will hurt. It won’t destroy shatter mesmer, but it certainly will hurt all bursty/power builds. I honestly don’t think the devs really thought through this idea with respect to WvW at all.

Overall, shatter mes already isn’t in a great place, and this’ll put it in a slightly worse place. A poor balance decision, aka fully expected and not a surprise at all.

Okay, I’ve been around on reddit, and people are circlejerking about how damage reduction is up to 40%. While I did not believe it, it was slightly unnerving, as my small group (5-8 player) shatter build has been working wonders since release. I do not want to jump on the PU bandwagon, but I fear that I am going to have to re-spec to more of an interrupt build, which I enjoy running while solo, but while in a group I admit that it is hard for me to time a clutch interrupt. I guess only time will tell, we will have to wait until the patch. Until then, I am going to enjoy shattering while I still can.

It’s kay. We’ve got improved condis and support build viability coming? That’s fun right? I mean… who doesn’t love slow paced style of play???

Well, the new traits totally neglect power shatter. Adding the critdmg change and vigor nerf, it will be even harder for us than it already is.

But i guess that’s okay, since perplexity necros will be rolling everyone (except warriors, ofc), anyway.

I find it annoying, I have not seen anything but nerfs in regards to shatter mesmer for a very long time, which I have dealt with. Now they are reducing damage across the board, trying to make Mesmer condition builds (which are already very strong and cheesy as is) even stronger. It’s almost like they are trying to get rid of all of the skilled shatter mesmers, and make them reroll thieves.

Well with regards to shatter there are several ideas forming now about a condition shatter builds. Again this isnt the power shatter we all know, i guess we will just have to make do with what the devs give us even if it wasn’t thought through very well.

The idea is to make sure that all traits scale equally. Critical did not and that was an issue.

I think they are trying to make more builds viable to mesmers, is all. Think outside the box. In GW1, not everyone spammed Wastrel’s Worry (which has been the player meta for a while). Same here.

See, the thing is, in the current meta, condition based builds ALREADY reign supreme. I cannot fathom why anet thought it would be a good idea to nerf power based builds, they are already outclassed by tanky condition builds as it is. It just goes to show that anet does not give two kittens about WvW players, this is obviously a patch for PvE players with regard to running full zerk. It appears that all I am going to bring to the table now as as a shatter mesmer are potential interrupts and aoe boonstrip. The whole burst portion of shatter mesmer is going to get seriously shafted. Can’t wait to see tanky warriors and necros running condition builds after this patch.

It’s been a tough time for shatter no kidding, but I don’t think it’s something to be super up – in – arms about. I mean it’s not a nerf directly to us at least. And we will still have some of the highest burst in the game as far as 1v1/skirmishes go. I see it as a bigger nerf to thieves than us.

You are right, it’s not like they were like, “kitten mesmers, lets reduce their damage.” However, in a meta where conditions are already often the strongest choice, nerfing the one other playstyle does not make ANY sense to me. Today, it is pretty much impossible to beat a condi warrior or a full dire necro with a glassy shatter build, with the reduction of damage, it is definitely going to be impossible. I guess all they want is mesmers to roll either condi cheese or some stupid non-viable support build nowadays.

Sounds like you bros need to adapt or die

Well with the new Illusions trait it doesn’t have to be a PU build to be a condi build which is actually a huge step in the right direction to me. I just don’t know what they could really do to make shatter more viable without making something overpowered or without nerfing everything to the ground.

It hurts power shatters (I’ve been a shatter Mesmer for long time, almost since release!)

But there is now a new shatter spec with the new trait, a condition shatter Mesmer. I have some build ideas already.

I will definitely miss my power shatter though, but we all have to take a hit and change sometime… (the shatter spec is already weak, but they are on making it more weak, less viable….)

agroovywalrus.3821:

You are right, it’s not like they were like, “kitten mesmers, lets reduce their damage.” However, in a meta where conditions are already often the strongest choice, nerfing the one other playstyle does not make ANY sense to me.

You said it yourself in one of your other posts. The berserker change is due to PvE reasons. Not because of PvP or WvW. Torturing your brain any further is pointless. It is not about the condition meta in PvP or WvW roaming.

agroovywalrus.3821:

Today, it is pretty much impossible to beat a condi warrior or a full dire necro with a glassy shatter build, with the reduction of damage, it is definitely going to be impossible.

I doubt it is impossible. It just got harder. You got to keep some things in mind.

• Condi Warriors aren’t hard to beat because the Mesmer is too weak but because certain traits and skill combinations on Warriors are too strong. The Warriors need to change. Not the Mesmer.

• Condi Necromancers might actually take quite a hit when Dhuumfire gets changed. On top of that, one of the main reason of them being so powerful is the stat combination on dire gear. Again, not the Mesmer who needs improvements.

• Generally, Mesmers are weak against conditions. This especially applies to the meta shatter build. How can you expect to excel against condi builds then?

Even if you don’t look at those aspects, how on earth would you like to improve the standard power shatter build any further without making other traits even more absolete? I personally do not see much room for improvement on power shatter Mesmers when it comes to damage because IP already is outstanding. Also, the 20/20/0/0/30 combination is hard to beat.

If anything could be done then it ise QoL improvements (e.g. Illusions more reliably hitting a target when shattered) or opening up alternatives to the meta power shatter build and not improving the existing one. And that is what they actually did. Assuming that Maim the Disillusioned will apply a significant amount/duration Torment it will open up a condition build outside of PU which is something Mesmers really needed. They also offered new supportive options with Bountiful Disillusionment although I believe they really messed up with that one. Because Inspiration would have been the place for a supportive shatter build. Not Chaos.

We’ll still be around, shatter may be weak in comparison to other forms of power burst but it’s still a very fun and active (and viable in my own experience) way of playing mesmer. Not to mention in wvw small group roaming you can line up AoE bursts of 8k upwards if you’re playing smart.

I do enjoy seeing the buff to condition shatter, which is the kind of condition build I use when I roll conditions. Keeps up the active play on the mesmer’s part. Hopefully people will start to gravitate away from the PU craze, but I feel that shatter as a whole (condition or power) just doesn’t appeal to players anymore due to the extra effort it takes to pull it off.

I’ll never reroll to something else from shatter… Even if that means i have to take a break untill they got balance fixed, becase right now, you make a single mistake and you’re pretty much screwed vs meta builds :/

Shatter is actually making a comeback from what I’ve seen, ESL matches have had prominent shatter mesmers and on my scrub level I’ve been having much more success and fun with it although it does need decent rotation in the team to work. Mobility is vital and shatter can afford portal and traited blink in it without a problem.

It’s not just the zerker damage drop that will hurt with the patch, it’s also the vigor nerf on dodges and clone generation. However both these things do affect other classes, and what will be interesting I think is mixing in the new domination trait to a 30-20-0-0-20 shatter with power lock. These nerfs will be mitigated on us by the 2 sigils each on GS/Staff and this strong interrupt.

if you shatter using diversion and distortion – then shatter mesmer starts to look quite good with the new changes.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

if you shatter using diversion and distortion – then shatter mesmer starts to look quite good with the new changes.

I sincerely hope this is a joke.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

if you shatter using diversion and distortion – then shatter mesmer starts to look quite good with the new changes.

I sincerely hope this is a joke.

I don’t get it :P

Pyroathiest.4168:

This will hurt. It won’t destroy shatter mesmer, but it certainly will hurt all bursty/power builds. I honestly don’t think the devs really thought through this idea with respect to WvW at all.

Overall, shatter mes already isn’t in a great place, and this’ll put it in a slightly worse place. A poor balance decision, aka fully expected and not a surprise at all.

This were true only if your damage was entirely crittable damage, though.
And I think that’s where ANet gets the numbers from. They poll server information, and get information that of people with crit damage above, say, +70%, ~2/3rd or all damage done can crit. Hence 15% reduction in that damage for 10% reduction total.

Why it’s a poor decision I don’t see, though. I mean granted, I would have deleted Precision (not crit damage) as a stat and used crit chance as a class/skill balance mechanic. Mind you, deleted from gear only.

But well… nerf needed, even though I would have used a different one. With any luck it means that power-based skills can get some balance soon, now that they no longer scale as well.

Here’s a calculation done by kiwituatara at the ranger forum:

Lets compare the current full zerker ascended set (armor, weapon, trinkets, without runes) to future zerker set.
If you look at a soldiers ascended helmet, the stats are 47/34/34. I’m assuming zerkers will also become 47/34/34.
Current zerker ascended set:
71% additional crit dmg
101% additional crit dmg if traited for crit dmg.
Future zerker ascended set:
745 ferocity (49.67% additional crit dmg)
1045 ferocity (69.67% additinal crit dmg) if traited for crit dmg and assuming a full traitline will give 300 ferocity.
This is around 30% reduction in crit dmg.

For runes, we can use divinity’s runes as an example:
Current full set:
12% additional crit dmg
Future full set:
60 ferocity (4% additional crit dmg)
————-

So yeah the overall dps will drop by 10% if you run full berserker but the loss in crit damage is quite significant. We’re probably looking at 200% combined crit damage on average now. I know they try to adjust the stats for PvE but this isn’t exactly a balance in WvW considering how many people play condition bunkers.

Speaking of 200% combined crit damage, its actually a bit similar to the PvP set I played in (20/20/0/0/30 with berserker trinket). So playing standard PvP “kind of” tells you what the upcoming change will affect shatter mes. I say kind of because there’re more people running berserker build in PvP than WvW, plus WvW can have more variation in builds.