Guild Wars 2

I know everyone recommends phantasms build for dungeon, but I want to try a shatter one (at least just for fun). Main issue is projectile reflection.
So I was thinking in something like:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRAsa8cl0zqq3TTgGa9ICqHYX39dkU0awWJF82FC-jUyAYrBRTZCERI0Jviox2GKiGrSCTVCrcHiq3IzRBERA-w

Questions:
1) Are shatters builds are inferior to phantasms builds damage wise ?
2) When needed, are Masterful reflection, mimic mirror, feedback and untraited focus enough?

i played shatter for a lot before trying phantasm

I will tell you my experience.

1st problem is sustained damage.
While shatter has burst, phantasm has sustained damage

Sustained >>>>> burst in PvE unless the burst is really OP (shatter is not the case)
(due to mob health pools)

2 shatter requires you to waste evasions…..more risk less reward

3 reflect is something giving mesmer a unique role in PvE, shatter mesmer has not a place in parties imho

4 phantasms die way less than it seems

those reasons led me to change to phantasms for pve.

Well, actually that is what I feared (shatter burst not being enough to compensate).
I will try it anyway, at least in CoF path1 :-D

Just wondering, are you running 0/20/0/25/25 or 10/30/0/20/10?

Ryn.6459:

I know everyone recommends phantasms build for dungeon, but I want to try a shatter one (at least just for fun). Main issue is projectile reflection.
So I was thinking in something like:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRAsa8cl0zqq3TTgGa9ICqHYX39dkU0awWJF82FC-jUyAYrBRTZCERI0Jviox2GKiGrSCTVCrcHiq3IzRBERA-w

Questions:
1) Are shatters builds are inferior to phantasms builds damage wise ?
2) When needed, are Masterful reflection, mimic mirror, feedback and untraited focus enough?

You want traited focus and feedback.

For any situation not requiring pulls or reflects, off-hand sword and off-hand pistol are your best weapon choices.

I’ve tested 10/30/0/30/0 and 0/20/0/25/25 and I find the second much better. Despite all the damage you lose (100 power, 150 precision with sword trait, 10% critical damage and 15% phantasm damage) you even have the same sustained DPS with 0/20/0/25/25, thanks to Phantasmal Haste and illusionists Celerity.

for phantasms i go 0/20/0/25/25 GS-sw/f

GS for fractal is great as backup weapon.
When you fight trash mobs in fractal for example izerker is awesome (in dungeon you skip almost every trash so you could not need it).
40% cd reduction makes sure you don t need an OH weapons aside some situation.

Thus i use GS as secondary weapon mostly and i equip pistol (svanir fractal boss for example) or torch (for skipping) if i need them.

Ansau.7326:

I’ve tested 10/30/0/30/0 and 0/20/0/25/25 and I find the second much better. Despite all the damage you lose (100 power, 150 precision with sword trait, 10% critical damage and 15% phantasm damage) you even have the same sustained DPS with 0/20/0/25/25, thanks to Phantasmal Haste and illusionists Celerity.

yeah, no doubts about that.

I’m not sure what happen if you compare 0/20/0/25/25 with 10/30/0/20/10 taking compounding power and empowering mantras. Less damage from phantasms and more damage for you.

Did you look at Brazil’s mesmer DPS video? It’s more of a Lupicus build than a general mesmer DPS build (note the compounding power for hard hitting feedbacks, perception sigil for reflects always dealing crits and the empowering mantras to make feedback hit harder) because damage %+ modifiers make your reflects hit harder but don’t make your phantasms hit harder.

Our DPS itself is pretty average so you’re better off boosting your phantasms with 0/20/0/25/25 since 25 in inspiration gives you 15%+ damage and 25 in illusions gives you faster cooldowns and faster phantasm recharge.

I used shatter build in dungeons since october 2012 and it was and is still way better than anything one of those phantasms-that-dies-from-sneeze could offer.

@colesy:
I saw it a couple of hours ago. This was the build that I was messing with after IC nerf and after seeing the Nemesis’ glass cannon mesmer post. Actually I’m not big fan of their “meta-builds”. I tend to like more “GK balanced builds” by the way (being 0/20/0/25/25 one of them).
But I stopped playing my mesmer in PVE and leveled a necro (which I’m very comfortable with a 30/30/0/0/10 changing the gear and traits to powernecro o conditionnecro on the run).

Now I want to go back to my old friend mesmer, and trying to find a build that I like (I miss to be able to trait GS when needed).

@Winds: Mind shre your build?

I used shatter build in dungeons since october 2012 and it was and is still way better than anything one of those phantasms-that-dies-from-sneeze could offer.

Sustained phantasm DPS > shatter burst

@colesy:
I saw it a couple of hours ago. This was the build that I was messing with after IC nerf and after seeing the Nemesis’ glass cannon mesmer post. Actually I’m not big fan of their “meta-builds”. I tend to like more “GK balanced builds” by the way (being 0/20/0/25/25 one of them).
But I stopped playing my mesmer in PVE and leveled a necro (which I’m very comfortable with a 30/30/0/0/10 changing the gear and traits to powernecro o conditionnecro on the run).

Now I want to go back to my old friend mesmer, and trying to find a build that I like (I miss to be able to trait GS when needed).

Well GS isn’t worth using so traiting it isnt important.

Ryn.6459:

@Winds: Mind shre your build?

varies
10-20-0-10-30 general
0-20-0-20-30 for groups with no guardian

Sustained phantasm DPS > shatter burst

I dare you to get sustain on 48 shaman and higher. Full berserkers!

Ryn.6459:

Ansau.7326:

I’ve tested 10/30/0/30/0 and 0/20/0/25/25 and I find the second much better. Despite all the damage you lose (100 power, 150 precision with sword trait, 10% critical damage and 15% phantasm damage) you even have the same sustained DPS with 0/20/0/25/25, thanks to Phantasmal Haste and illusionists Celerity.

yeah, no doubts about that.

I’m not sure what happen if you compare 0/20/0/25/25 with 10/30/0/20/10 taking compounding power and empowering mantras. Less damage from phantasms and more damage for you.

The’re 2 problems with mantras for DPS.

1- You lose all the utilities, and mesmer have tons of utilities that are awesome in PvE.
2- Even with +25% damage on you, your sustained damage will be less than the +15% in phantasms, or the Phantasmal Haste + illusionists celerity.

Winds.3087:

Ryn.6459:

@Winds: Mind shre your build?

I dare you to get sustain on 48 shaman and higher. Full berserkers!

Since in fractal, phantasms are immune to traps such as lava they are extremely powerful.

A couple of iwardens will stay probably alive forever……if you want to be even more sure other phantasms are even better at surviving.

And if they die its because they took an Arrow instead of your party… and you are happy anyway.

That unless you melee normal phase.

Same applies to svanir boss and other similars when you just summon 3 phantasms and sit autoattacking dealing huge dps till the boss dies

I used to hate this boss with shatter…..found it easy with phantasms from the first time i tried.

Wardens can’t sit there forever. After some point, shaman drops melee nuke on them and they’re gone. Same goes true with everything. Phantasm damage is not sustained damage. It’s more like randomly-sustained-for-some-period-of-time-before-inevitable-shutdown-damage. I don’t buy it, nor like gambling for 50% chance of better sustained damage that could turn into no significant damage at all in the single blitz.
I tried hell of a ton phanatsm builds and found all of them simply subpar to glorious shatters in every aspect of game it’s actually unbelievable. Situation got sliiiightly better after they boosted their hp a bit. They still eagerly die however.
In conclusion, I’d like to point out that phantasms are for boring mesmers who want to 1-1-1 their way to glory. Shame on them.
If I wanted to faceroll stuff, I’d use a guardian.
Or elementalist.

Well that’s why you trait for weapon cooldowns so you can cast another phantasm when they inevitably die.

Having duelist on 12s cd is great.

Winds.3087:

I used shatter build in dungeons since october 2012 and it was and is still way better than anything one of those phantasms-that-dies-from-sneeze could offer.

Was looking at this thread laughing at everyone suggesting phantasms over shatter and then seen this. At least one of you played pve that isn’t world exploration where mobs deal 3 damage per three hours… I won’t be going into details why shatter is way better than phantasm builds because i’ve done this plenty of times on this forum so enjoy your “i run a phantasm build, my 3 phantasms will all kill da things~~~~~ 4-6sec later they’re all dead” and you’re left with your autos. Some of you here never done anything challenging in pve and probably suggesting a phantasm builds because of easy sauce dungeon paths or open world you’ve done.

In fractals, my zerker will generally do upwards of 4k-7k damage on mobs/bosses. This is roughly equivalent to 1 shatter. If the zerker attacks more than once, it has now out-dpsed shatter. Keep in mind that’s only 1 phantasm.

@Nuka Cola: I’ve never seen an explanation that holds water as to how shatter is better than phantasms in dungeons/fractals. If you did before, it wasn’t on these forums. You do seem to think you can explain it though, so I invite you to try.

Winds.3087:

Ryn.6459:

@Winds: Mind shre your build?

varies
10-20-0-10-30 general
0-20-0-20-30 for groups with no guardian

Sustained phantasm DPS > shatter burst

I dare you to get sustain on 48 shaman and higher. Full berserkers!

This guy says that GS is bad for pve (talk about a LOL situation) and dungeon meta don’t use deceptive evasion LOL so if i were you, i wouldn’t bother proving him anything… he has never done fractals over lev~20.

Pyroatheist.9031:

In fractals, my zerker will generally do upwards of 4k-7k damage on mobs/bosses. This is roughly equivalent to 1 shatter. If the zerker attacks more than once, it has now out-dpsed shatter. Keep in mind that’s only 1 phantasm.

one thing you have to keep in mind is that a shatter build also has access to that same izerker AND is more spammable because of IC+deals as much or even more damage because you have might stacks building from shatter/SS.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Pyroatheist.9031:

In fractals, my zerker will generally do upwards of 4k-7k damage on mobs/bosses. This is roughly equivalent to 1 shatter. If the zerker attacks more than once, it has now out-dpsed shatter. Keep in mind that’s only 1 phantasm.

one thing you have to keep in mind is that a shatter build also has access to that same izerker AND is more spammable because of IC+deals as much or even more damage because you have might stacks building from shatter/SS.

The shatter iZerker will do approximately 50% of the damage that a phantasm iZerker will do because of differences in traiting. There have been several phantasm builds shown in this thread that double trait several weapons, so using IC as an excuse is no relevant.

Pyroatheist.9031:

In fractals, my zerker will generally do upwards of 4k-7k damage on mobs/bosses. This is roughly equivalent to 1 shatter. If the zerker attacks more than once, it has now out-dpsed shatter. Keep in mind that’s only 1 phantasm.

@Nuka Cola: I’ve never seen an explanation that holds water as to how shatter is better than phantasms in dungeons/fractals. If you did before, it wasn’t on these forums. You do seem to think you can explain it though, so I invite you to try.

how exactly do you want me to prove? If there was a dps tool, i would have proved everyone who seriously think phantasm builds are better but there isn’t… The main reason and mostly the only reason why phantasm build is much worst isn’t even the fact that they die quick but the lack of aoe phantasms. iZerker is the ONLY one that does what it should. Even tho, ai is garbage and will stay in its aoe, this won’t be happening all the time and iwarden will be killing more flies than anything.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Pyroatheist.9031:

In fractals, my zerker will generally do upwards of 4k-7k damage on mobs/bosses. This is roughly equivalent to 1 shatter. If the zerker attacks more than once, it has now out-dpsed shatter. Keep in mind that’s only 1 phantasm.

one thing you have to keep in mind is that a shatter build also has access to that same izerker AND is more spammable because of IC+deals as much or even more damage because you have might stacks building from shatter/SS.

The shatter iZerker will do approximately 50% of the damage that a phantasm iZerker will do because of differences in traiting. There have been several phantasm builds shown in this thread that double trait several weapons, so using IC as an excuse is no relevant.

this is absolutely not true. i don’t even run zerker in high level fractals (2k power/78% crit damage) and i see plenty of mid 5k aoe on izerker.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Pyroatheist.9031:

In fractals, my zerker will generally do upwards of 4k-7k damage on mobs/bosses. This is roughly equivalent to 1 shatter. If the zerker attacks more than once, it has now out-dpsed shatter. Keep in mind that’s only 1 phantasm.

@Nuka Cola: I’ve never seen an explanation that holds water as to how shatter is better than phantasms in dungeons/fractals. If you did before, it wasn’t on these forums. You do seem to think you can explain it though, so I invite you to try.

how exactly do you want me to prove? If there was a dps tool, i would have proved everyone who seriously think phantasm builds are better but there isn’t… The main reason and mostly the only reason why phantasm build is much worst isn’t even the fact that they die quick but the lack of aoe phantasms. iZerker is the ONLY one that does what it should. Even tho, ai is garbage and will stay in its aoe, this won’t be happening all the time and iwarden will be killing more flies than anything.

In any competent dungeon group, killing trash will be done in an efficient and tight packed manner. This means that dropping a warden and a zerker into the pack of mobs will do a massive amount of damage (warden usually spins for >10k). That is the limit of necessary aoe.

Against almost all bosses, aoe is not necessary. You don’t need to worry about the aoe potential of your phantasms. You only need to worry about single target damage (and maybe reflects). So you get your warlocks or duelists or swordsmen up, and they’ll be chunking the target continually. Smart placement of the phantasms gives far higher rates of survival, especially since they can eat a couple hits after that hp boost.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Pyroatheist.9031:

In fractals, my zerker will generally do upwards of 4k-7k damage on mobs/bosses. This is roughly equivalent to 1 shatter. If the zerker attacks more than once, it has now out-dpsed shatter. Keep in mind that’s only 1 phantasm.

@Nuka Cola: I’ve never seen an explanation that holds water as to how shatter is better than phantasms in dungeons/fractals. If you did before, it wasn’t on these forums. You do seem to think you can explain it though, so I invite you to try.

how exactly do you want me to prove? If there was a dps tool, i would have proved everyone who seriously think phantasm builds are better but there isn’t… The main reason and mostly the only reason why phantasm build is much worst isn’t even the fact that they die quick but the lack of aoe phantasms. iZerker is the ONLY one that does what it should. Even tho, ai is garbage and will stay in its aoe, this won’t be happening all the time and iwarden will be killing more flies than anything.

In any competent dungeon group, killing trash will be done in an efficient and tight packed manner. This means that dropping a warden and a zerker into the pack of mobs will do a massive amount of damage (warden usually spins for >10k). That is the limit of necessary aoe.

Against almost all bosses, aoe is not necessary. You don’t need to worry about the aoe potential of your phantasms. You only need to worry about single target damage (and maybe reflects). So you get your warlocks or duelists or swordsmen up, and they’ll be chunking the target continually. Smart placement of the phantasms gives far higher rates of survival, especially since they can eat a couple hits after that hp boost.

You can’t always out of LoS mobs on high level fractals because you may all die at once from aoe and if you don’t die, IP+all your shatter and iwarden (if you care about it so much) are here to hit everything at once while your phantasm builds need ages to re-engage (that is only if they aren’t dead and they’re most of the times)

Also, you talk about bosses. How many targets are there? Mostly 1… Did i EVER said a phantasm build is bad for 1 or very low amount of targets? No, never because its actually better. When on boss (excluding bosses with with tones of adds such as shaman in fotm) i don’t shatter and let my phantasms do their job.

And since dungeons consist of running between bosses and then fighting them, why not run phantasm?

I ran a Shatter build in PvE for awhile. Typical 20/20/0/0/30. I liked to think that while my sustained damage wasn’t incredible, that I did alright. I also focused on using Dazzling properly, fitting in a burst of 20-25 Vuln every 30-40 seconds to increase the party’s damage is hard to quantify.

It is unclear what you are trying to say.

Nuka Cola.8520:

You can’t always out of LoS mobs on high level fractals because you may all die at once from aoe

LoS pulling or grouping mobs up with our focus is always an option, even at high level fractals. There are plenty of ways to keep mobs disabled for long enough to burn them down.

Nuka Cola.8520:

and if you don’t die, IP+all your shatter and iwarden (if you care about it so much) are here to hit everything at once while your phantasm builds need ages to re-engage (that is only if they aren’t dead and they’re most of the times)

You don’t get a full iWarden spin in a shatter build generally. Additionally, the shatter will simply do less damage. You have a full mind wrack 4 clone shatter doing maybe 10k damage in total, and just the warden spin, let alone the iZerker spin, will do that much damage. Phantasms simply do more damage.

You’ve also completely ignored situations where aoe is not necessary, such as boss fights.

Dastion.3106:

I ran a Shatter build in PvE for awhile. Typical 20/20/0/0/30. I liked to think that while my sustained damage wasn’t incredible, that I did some pretty good burst. I also focused on using Dazzling properly, fitting in a burst of 20-25 Vuln every 30-40 seconds to increase the party’s damage is hard to quantify.

Other classes can do 25 vuln stacking without sacrifices and continually, not on a burst like shatter, which is the reason you generally don’t want to worry about that.

Why exactly won’t you go on full iwarden spin lol this is not pvp where you have to shatter before iLeap immobilize ends and your opponent has a chance to dodge your burst… You maximize your damage in pve and it would be very stupid of you to shatter before iwarden ends his spin. Phantasms don’t deal more damage, phantasms deal more damage on single target, not when there’s 15 ads spamming their aoe…

“You’ve also completely ignored situations where aoe is not necessary, such as boss fights”

I don’t know how many times i have to repeat myself on this forum… Boss fight is ONE target. Phantasm builds aren’t just good against one target but are better than shatter. What does that mean? it means i don’t shatter on bosses and let my phantasms do the job. Yes they will deal less damage than on a pure phantasm build but so what? its only 1 boss… I wouldn’t be running a shatter build if every dungeon had a maximum amount of 3 enemies at once and this is not the case. I will repeat this for the last time~~~~ Phanta builds are superior for low amount of targets fighting you at once ( i’d say 1-3 bosses is a good example). Shatter builds are MUCH better when you’re fighting mobs of enemies. You don’t gain anything by shattering a single target with one billion HP and for that reason a phanta build is better. On the other hand, when fighting 10+ ads it would be very stupid of you to rely on weak phantasms to dps that not only can and will die quickly but other than iZerker we have nothing that is aoe and follows target(s)

In CoF p1 you fight two mobs, a boss, warriors fight the acolytes, you ignore the mobs at the gate and then you fight effigy.

All you do in dungeons is boss-skip-boss-skip.

Therefore, since you say phantasm is better in 1v1, it’s better for dungeons.

colesy.8490:

In CoF p1 you fight two mobs, a boss, warriors fight the acolytes, you ignore the mobs at the gate and then you fight effigy.

All you do in dungeons is boss-skip-boss-skip.

Therefore, since you say phantasm is better in 1v1, it’s better for dungeons.

You’re a perfect example of a person that does nothing else but easiest possible dungeon paths and come here suggesting a phanta build… Who cares what’s good in CoF p1? like seriously…. go naked by spamming your auto and you’ll do fine in there.

Every single dungeon in this game you skip unless you’re forced to fight or if the mobs die quickly enough it doesn’t even matter and there’s a large number of them (e.g. risen and destroyer spawns in CoE)

If you’re going to be arrogant, at least know what you’re talking about it.

colesy.8490:

Every single dungeon in this game you skip unless you’re forced to fight or if the mobs die quickly enough it doesn’t even matter and there’s a large number of them (e.g. risen and destroyer spawns in CoE)

If you’re going to be arrogant, at least know what you’re talking about it.

So you suggest people to run X build because you skip? Try high level fractal and go skip there with your phantasm builds…

So, in high level fractal u run a shatter build without reflects or sustained dmg. Ok…

Nuka Cola, high level fractals is not the only thing in PvE, actually is one of the smallest part of it. So don’t use it to make a point in how shatters are better.

I will remake your question: So you suggest people to run X build because you like to fight big groups of mobs and high level fractals?

Btw, if you’re playing large groups of mobs, they usually have very low health. Also, most of the PvE is based on killing bosses (All dungeons work like this, also a lot of group events, final bosses in fractals, actual farm…). So a build for killing-lots-of-mobs-fast is not worth.

PD: It’s even more funny when shatter players say that phantasms die with a sneeze in PvE. That really shows how much they know about phantasms builds…

SteZ.2546:

So, in high level fractal u run a shatter build without reflects or sustained dmg. Ok…

stupid responses are stupid. Focus reflects trait isn’t the only reflects mesmers have access to so you know.

Ansau.7326:

Nuka Cola, high level fractals is not the only thing in PvE, actually is one of the smallest part of it. So don’t use it to make a point in how shatters are better.

I will remake your question: So you suggest people to run X build because you like to fight big groups of mobs and high level fractals?

Btw, if you’re playing large groups of mobs, they usually have very low health. Also, most of the PvE is based on killing bosses (All dungeons work like this, also a lot of group events, final bosses in fractals, actual farm…). So a build for killing-lots-of-mobs-fast is not worth.

PD: It’s even more funny when shatter players say that phantasms die with a sneeze in PvE. That really shows how much they know about phantasms builds…

no, high level fractals isn’t the only pve but if a build works there it will work anywhere in the game or the new content anet will add one day. I base this on the only pve content that is half decently challenging and skipping ALL DA THINGS (like the other dudes says) isn’t an option for the majority of fractals.

Do you base your build because you skip stuff and expect everyone to do so? Or do you base your build because while exploring the world you find it to work nicely in the facerolling open world? I base mine where you can’t play blindfolded while playing with one hand… and please, phanta builds i haven’t just ran many times but its my primary builds for solo roaming in wvw which i do every day…

So you suggest people to run X build because you skip? Try high level fractal and go skip there with your phantasm builds…

No, I suggest it because it’s the best build for dungeon fights.

And it doesn’t matter how high the fractal level is, you can skip the svanir in snowblind and the mobs on the way to maw just as well at level 1 as you can at 79.

stupid responses are stupid. Focus reflects trait isn’t the only reflects mesmers have access to so you know.

It just so happens that the focus reflects are on a much lower cooldown compared to feedback and therefore you should always trait for them if running dungeons.

Do you base your build because you skip stuff and expect everyone to do so? Or do you base your build because while exploring the world you find it to work nicely in the facerolling open world? I base mine where you can’t play blindfolded while playing with one hand… and please, phanta builds i haven’t just ran many times but its my primary builds for solo roaming in wvw which i do every day…

That’s such a moronic thing to say. No, nobody bases their build on skipping content, how is that even possible?

“No, I suggest it because it’s the best build for dungeon fights” Your first sentence sums it up. The reason why phantasms builds are good is because i said so is pretty much what you’re saying. When i tell you a phantasm mesmer is bad for dungeons because of our lack of good aoe phantasms outside izerker, them being too squishy to hold up against hordes of enemies with high aoe damage you give me stupidity such as as GS being bad in dungeons (which is the weapon with the best pve phantasm in the game). Proving something to you is like talking to a wall, ain’t notbody got time for dat, go run your phantasm builds and have fun lol

When i tell you a phantasm mesmer is bad for dungeons because of our lack of good aoe phantasms outside izerker

Sword cleaves. Warden cleaves. Though again, AOE is rarely needed.

them being too squishy to hold up against hordes

Try actually using your dodge key or blurred frenzy.

of enemies with high aoe damage

So practically no enemy ever, since you’re not talking about bosses.

you give me stupidity such as as GS being bad in dungeons (which is the weapon with the best pve phantasm in the game).

The autoattack is trash, and to maaximise its damage you need to move out of boon range. If I can choose between being up in melee with fury and 25 stacks of might and no danger of taking damage, or being at 900 range with 0 might stacks, no fury and a weak autoattack, along with having again no danger, I’m taking melee every time. It’s not the best phantasm either, warden’s utility outshines it, duelist hits equally as hard and stacks 8 bleeds versus 4, swordsman recharges faster and warlock hits even harder when a boss is stacked with conditions. There is almost no reason to run greatsword besides situations that force range like when you reach Melandru in Arah and have to stand at range and afk the fight.

Here’s a tip to you, stop being wrong, and if you are wrong just own up to it, then you don’t have to have your posts smeared all over the place showing what a pile of bull they are.

Nuka Cola.8520:

no, high level fractals isn’t the only pve but if a build works there it will work anywhere in the game or the new content anet will add one day. I base this on the only pve content that is half decently challenging and skipping ALL DA THINGS (like the other dudes says) isn’t an option for the majority of fractals.

Do you base your build because you skip stuff and expect everyone to do so? Or do you base your build because while exploring the world you find it to work nicely in the facerolling open world? I base mine where you can’t play blindfolded while playing with one hand… and please, phanta builds i haven’t just ran many times but its my primary builds for solo roaming in wvw which i do every day…

It’s an error to think that a build that works in H-L fractals is good for anywhere, just because those fractals have a very specific meta, which you don’t find in the rest of PvE (Lots of mobs that have a lot of health and do a lot of damage).

The talk about skipping things is that the OP asked for a build for general PvE, and he was asking more for dungeons. There’s no fractal reference in any of his posts, so don’t discredit the people who give advise on how to be better on dungeons. High level fractals are a whole different world.

Finally, people don’t base a build to skip things, they do to be the most efficient possible. If in all dungeons you spend most of the time fighting a boss, what is more efficient, making a build that is the best to deal with them, or suggest a build that will outperform, but only in the smallest part of PvE?
And also, why all the builds have to be made for high-skill PvE? Very few people play fractals and even less play high level, so don’t come to a thread of dungeons to say kittens about how losers we are to play only easy stuff and wait for us to say, Oh this guy is god, lets do what he says, stop playing phantasm builds in dungeons and be useful and start to spam shatters trying to emulate a warrior…

PD: Even if you run a phantasm build for roaming, that doesn’t give you experience of how phantasms in PvE work, since they have way more survivability and normally bosses don’t go for them. So in some places, and if you’re smart, you are able to forget about summoning more phantasms than the 3 first.

Winds.3087:

Wardens can’t sit there forever. After some point, shaman drops melee nuke on them and they’re gone. Same goes true with everything. Phantasm damage is not sustained damage. It’s more like randomly-sustained-for-some-period-of-time-before-inevitable-shutdown-damage. I don’t buy it, nor like gambling for 50% chance of better sustained damage that could turn into no significant damage at all in the single blitz.
I tried hell of a ton phanatsm builds and found all of them simply subpar to glorious shatters in every aspect of game it’s actually unbelievable. Situation got sliiiightly better after they boosted their hp a bit. They still eagerly die however.
In conclusion, I’d like to point out that phantasms are for boring mesmers who want to 1-1-1 their way to glory. Shame on them.
If I wanted to faceroll stuff, I’d use a guardian.
Or elementalist.

You tried them bad……

Phantams doesn t trigger melee stuff
They will be ignored by boss except for agony arrows (that will possbly be reflected back at him)
Phantasm don t die easily at all due to positioning (a thing that anet did really well in PvE) and stupid bosses
Phantasms are squishy only on paper for pve; they rarely die expecially at boss fights

A phantasm can control better the fight with 3-3 (low cd) and temporal curtain+izerker provide some nice cripple if needed.

Shatter in PvE is about pressing buttons, the only hard stuff is watching to not roll too much and waste your energy……

Phantasms= reaction + tactic in pve
Shatter = button sequences and lot of button pressing only risk is wasting energy for DE….also you are not useful.

What you say its clearly something you heard from PvP players (or maybe WWW), applied to the wrong game mode…….

p.S: i d like to say a thing about mesmers in fractals.

While dungeon is 100% skip to next boss and here mesmer shines
Fractals is often unskippable.

If its true that your dps falls against trash mobs its also true that your support and utilities will shine more than anywhere else….

I run a shatter build for 40+ lvl fractals, CoE, CoF, explorable world and so on with no problems what so ever. Though this is really only super effective in Teams.

0/20/20/0/30. Bountiful Interruption + Might on Shatter + Illusionary Elasticity (for GS#2) + Sigils of Battle + Runes of Strength/Fire/Hoelbrak + 20% boon food = 100% Might Duration Increase for 25 stacks of Might almost all the time, usually for 20s.

Pyroatheist.9031:

In fractals, my zerker will generally do upwards of 4k-7k damage on mobs/bosses. This is roughly equivalent to 1 shatter. If the zerker attacks more than once, it has now out-dpsed shatter. Keep in mind that’s only 1 phantasm.

My Zerker hits for this too when I have 25 Stacks of Might, my Warden hits up to 10k too. Plus 3.2k times 4 shatters. Totalling 18-20k Damage Spikes to each of up to 5 targets. Sure my Zerker gets shattered and won’t be hitting as often, but 25 stacks of might on every other attack! So I would say my sustained damage combined is about equal to the loss of the extra Zerker hit.

A Phantasm Build Can only sustain 9-12 stacks of might without sacrificing something. Want Bountiful Interruption? Wheres the 20 pts come from? go 10/10/20/30/0? No cool down on GS for zerker… No Illusionary Elasticity = 3 less stacks from GS#2. The only Might comes from Sigils of Battle. So Damage wise, I DO NOT think either is better!!! they probably even out.

Team Support you say? Well sure I don’t have as much reflect… and no Regeneration… But with Signet of Inspiration my whole team now has 25 stacks of might for 20s+! Tell me how you could possibly quantify the DPS increase of 4 party members with an extra 875 Power and 875 Condition Damage! I have seen my party melt mobs in lvl 48 Fractals with this.

But your phantasms hit with this much all the time and I have to get stacks of might up first? Well your right, but I open with Temp Curtain to try for an interrupt, do the whole clone shatter thing, swap to GS, GS#2, clones and shatter. Even without the interrupt, I just got 15 Stacks of Might in under 10s. With an Interrupt or 2, 20-25 stacks, Signet and watch kittens die.

Bosses are definitely the weakest part of the build because interrupts don’t work, but you can still sustain 15-18 stacks of might easily enough.

Disclaimer
I am not going to say this build is better than a phantasm build. Each has their strengths. But so far all I have read this thread was everyone claiming Phantasms were the better of the two. I ran phantasm builds for Months, tried soo many variations. But this one seems to work better for me atleast.

So basically your only team support is signet, which all mesmers can use and apart from that you don’t have a traited focus or faster glamour cooldown/longer glamour duration, so you’re not even being that useful to your team, just leeching.

If you wanted to just do DPS, run a thief.

If you want to be a useful dungeon mesmer, you need to trait your focus.

completely agree
Phantasm build suffers trash mobs…..but its way better at bosses

But there a single warden outdps shatter by a mile.

Just reflecting back damage in fractal you see 50K often plus the 13K of iwarden itself (each iwarden)+ bleeding.

Unfortunately phantasms dies a lot because they don t only dies when they are killed but also when your target dies :/

colesy.8490:

So basically your only team support is signet, which all mesmers can use and apart from that you don’t have a traited focus or faster glamour cooldown/longer glamour duration, so you’re not even being that useful to your team, just leeching.

If you wanted to just do DPS, run a thief.

If you want to be a useful dungeon mesmer, you need to trait your focus.

25 stacks of Might every 45 seconds = kittens dies quicker = less need for reflecting.

I still run feedback. My warden still destroys projectiles. My Curtain still pulls mobs into balls. My null field still works just fine. So what? I lose 8 seconds of CD… or 2 seconds of duration….

I still run full team support, just instead of more glamour, I offer 25 stacks of Might.

AGAIN. Not necessarily better in all situations. But works just fine.

Shinigami Curse.5940:

colesy.8490:

So basically your only team support is signet, which all mesmers can use and apart from that you don’t have a traited focus or faster glamour cooldown/longer glamour duration, so you’re not even being that useful to your team, just leeching.

If you wanted to just do DPS, run a thief.

If you want to be a useful dungeon mesmer, you need to trait your focus.

25 stacks of Might every 45 seconds = kittens dies quicker = less need for reflecting.

I still run feedback. My warden still destroys projectiles. My Curtain still pulls mobs into balls. My null field still works just fine. So what? I lose 8 seconds of CD… or 2 seconds of duration….

I still run full team support, just instead of more glamour, I offer 25 stacks of Might.

AGAIN. Not necessarily better in all situations. But works just fine.

Most teams are going to have 25 stacks of might for a good amount of time after you double them with the signet. All you need for that is 1 guardian with a staff.