Guild Wars 2

I rolled a mesmer to trick, deceive, and shift the fabric of reality — not to explode the my illusions (which does the opposite of the things I just named).

Shatter is counter intuitive to the mesmer class and the essence of the mesmer playstyle. Having another option besides shatter that allows a mesmer to be more mesmery would be greatly appreciated.

— signed devoted mesmer

I read about a class that I want to play. I saw a huge mechanic of this class is shatter. I rolled this class. I hate shatter! Devs plz fix!

As if clones and phantasms weren’t easy to summon..

Shatter is amazing. My 30 Illusions build makes me happy every day I throw out tricks and deceptions and then I ravage my target by ripping apart those illusions and Wracking their Minds.

Seriously. Shatter is delicious.
Shatter is integral to the Mesmer class.

— signed devoted mesmer

I can see how lore wise shatter doesnt really make sense.
but the class has been designed around it, its not going to change.

Just to be clear, I also dont like it, but I can see its far too integrated into the class to ever be changed.

Shatters are cool. You can also go with a phantasm build but the trait line for that is a bit strange. Very support oriented with trying to keep you stuff up while at the same time you got effects when you shatter them.

Hi I rolled a thief the other day and I dont like to stab things or use a bow. I want to throw fireballs. Stabbing is boring. Devs need to change the thief class

I really don’t see how the class has been designed around shattering. I hardly shatter seeing as how with a, high crit chance, sharper images can put a good deal of pressure on a target.

Often times the clones pathing or the fact that they run at normal speeds makes shatters entirely pointless in WvW. Don’t know how many times I’ve tried shattering only for the enemy to have passive move speed or swiftness rendering shatters futile as they’re run around in circles until hit by stray AoEs.

Also our traits make no sense for shattering unless you build for it. Why would I want to blow up my phantasms if I have traits that grant them fury, retaliation(bugged w/fury taken), and can grant everyone nearby regen (which happens far to infrequently except for the duelist, no clue why only that one give it constantly while nearby). Phantasmal regen is our only other contribution to throwing out a few heals here and there outside of building around mantras.

What about the on death traits? They don’t affect shatters at all. Is their sole existence just meant to be some sort of pat on the back, “Cheer up, sure they failed to do what you wanted again, but here’s a small condition effect as a fix for that.”

What other profession trades all of that for a small amount of AoE burst and a couple of utility shatters, three of which have a chance of not even working.

The conceptual idea behind Shatter is extremely sound, tbh.

I mean, let’s go back to the original line describing it:
Shatter your illusions, destroying them in return for a powerful effect.

Operative word: powerful

To me this means the extreme of Illusion design would be this:

1. Clones are the ?&? of Mesmer defence. They’d need to be actual copies, dodging around a bit, showing both weapons, attacking at the same speed. They’d lose most defence but have ok health, the idea is to base out defence entirely on enemies “wasting” attacks trying to kill us.
2. Phantasms are the core support skills we have. They should be damage-less, but extremely strong in return (e.g.: Duelist does 8 Projectile Finishers in one salvo). They stick around, but after the initial salvo they drop to 1 health and 0 dodge. In other words, outside of sterile environments they’re single-use, but that use needs to be powerful as hell – though, utility-only. No damage from this (sec on that).
3. Shatters would be insanely powerful. I’m talking 50%+ of my total damage potential being from F1. If our Clones and Phantasms are to be very strong, then by extension the Shatter skills need to be so insanely powerful that they still have a very important use.

In other words, the system would be a see-saw. Clones provide Defence and Phantasms provide Utility, but to provide Damage or Control we need to destroy them. Both sides of the see-saw should be bumped up in power a lot, so that the switch between the two feels very distinct, and the transitions provide both the power (going from fully defensive to massive AE burst damage dropping everyone by 60%-75% of their HP in one attack) and the vulnerability (I’d remove things like Clone on Death, and re-work most of the CDs) of the Mesmer.

Ok, back to earth: That above is what I’d make from the “overall” design of Illusions+Shatters if I am to ignore the current numbers. Given the wording, given the layout, I suspect this was once actually the intention, btw.

Until they realized that this works out meh due to the reliance on rather overpowered burst effects on Shatter. Giving one class intentionally overpowered burst is fine in a vacuum, but tilts the playing field when combined in groups. Especially 2 Mesmers, who’d be able to AE-2-shot an entire group with Shatters, with ~0 defence possible. Individually fine, stacks badly.

Still, I think if we are to long-term evolve the current Illusion/Shatter system, it’d need to surge in power again. Clones need to be more perfect, Phantasms need to provide a lot more offensive/defensive utility, and Shatters need to be a lot stronger.

Alternatively, use Shatters as delivery types, as per what I posted in the other Shatter thread. F1 = single target enemy, F2 = AE enemy, F3 = single target friendly, F4 = self.

Shatter is unfun.

That’s not even deniable. The amount of mesmers using Shatter is extremely low.

Also, Shatter is useless (apart from rare F4) anywhere except in sPvP.

If Shatter was a fun mechanic people would use it (much like pets in GW1), and if it was a powerful mechanic people would use it. But go to PvE and WvW and observe random people. You won’t see anyone whole day using Shatters.

From a design/lore standpoint, the last thing a Mesmer player expected in GW2 was having core abilities focused on.. disillusionment. Having a Utility skill that shatters? Fine, but core mechanic?

Osicat: “Hi I rolled a thief the other day and I dont like to stab things or use a bow. I want to throw fireballs. Stabbing is boring. Devs need to change the thief class”

Before GW2 came to being, Mesmer was.

Everyone expects a thief to steal, and to stab. So don’t be silly. People don’t read manuals before picking classes. When average MMO player picks a ranger, he expected to be able to shoot from a bow. Now imagine if GW2 ranger was designed to fight with a sword and a torch, you know, like Aragorn. Then imagine Elementalist class was about laying traps and using bows, no magic. You could say “it says on GW2 wiki what the class is about, doh!”, but who cares? There’s a flawed mechanic no one uses, and a mechanic that doesn’t meet expectations. And that’s a problem. People are not satisfied, and forum is here to voice that dissatisfaction.

Shatter is fun, and shattering mesmers are strong.

Like where? …..

And as for fun part, I am not saying no one finds it fun, I am saying no one except few forum people finds it fun. Because whenever I play ingame, absolutely no one uses a single shatter. And that’s the same thing others report in the forums: “None of my friends uses shatter.”

Interesting. So the Mesmers you PvP with don’t capitalize on AE debuffs in WvW? Or even PvE?

Because that’s nearly the strongest aspect of our Shatter mechanic, the sheer area coverage. It’s not actually pinpoint-strong (my point from above exactly), but it’s overall coverage is quite handy.

Question though: If the class bar abilities aren’t fun to use, why play the class? Seems odd to me, sort of like self-punishment.

Nice burst from wrack, 3 stacks of confusion, chaindaze for up to 2-2.5 seconds and not to mention invulnerability. Wait, not fun? Don’t use them then.
Shatters are okay as long as you know where and when.
They definitely need some AI tweaks tho, but that’s true to any pet AI.

It’s amazing how many people expect a complete rework because they decided to dislike the class. I suppose I could go to the engineer forum and complain that I did not enjoy engineer because its no fun, but since a lot of people clearly love it, I’ll just focus on playing what I do like. Mesmer. And I shatter, I don’t know why people say its pointless or counter intuitive. We are illusionists at heart, and shatter is the prestige.

Carighan: "Interesting. So the Mesmers you PvP with don’t capitalize on AE debuffs in WvW? Or even PvE?

Because that’s nearly the strongest aspect of our Shatter mechanic, the sheer area coverage."
—-

Theorycrafting. Anyone who plays WvW or difficult PvE areas can tell you why Shatter is pointless. Even in normal PvE areas it’s pointless because it requires too much effort compared to a simple spam of “1” on classes such as Engineer etc, so average player doesn’t bother. What you typed in theory sounds great – more mobs more dmg from AoE shatter. Until you actually try it in practice, when you see why and how it completely fails.

The difference between theorycrafting and practical value is best seen when you compare this forum to the game. In the forum everyone has an opinion, but with empirical data from the gameplay it is easily seen how much the opinion has to do with reality.

It was a common thing even in GW1.

Shatter is fun, but it goes from awesome to barely useful from a build to another.

As a melee shatter mesmer, I’m having tons of fun summoning as many clones/phantasms as fast as possible to blow them up (along with myself) and melt groups of mob faster than anything.
Blowing up 3 illusions with F1 plus myself deals around 10k dmg and while I wait for the cd, I blow another 3 illusions with F2 which deals much less but applies stacks of confusion. Also, every shatter I do applies stacks of vulnerabilities in aoe.

For Phantasms/Cond mesmers, it’s less useful as you trade your dps for the shatter effect but still, shattering when you have your cooldowns ready for another round of phantasms is mandatory.

And I’m not even talking about F3 and F4 which are as useful in every build for those “oh kitten” moments.

True, if you look at the forum it’s all a cryfest, ingame everyone is just gaming along and there’s tons of Mesmer (and I don’t mean in sPvP, I mean in WvW).

I guess it’s just the vocal minority, then. :P

It doesn’t completely fail if you build for it. If you don’t want to build for it, then yes, shatter won’t be very powerful or useful. I’ve built myself for it. I’ve got 30 Illusions for the Illusionary Persona trait which allows me to shatter myself. I’ve also got Greatsword cooldown reduction and piles of points in crit/power with a 20% higher Mind Wrack damage trait. I also have clone on dodge. All of this allows me to pump out clones, get off one attack with my phantasms (iberserker) and then crit like crazy with my Mind Wrack and spread oodles of confuse with CoF – which also gives retaliation.

I’m also constantly moving, dodging and kiting. Sure, if you’re not into that sort of gameplay, mesmer might not be for you. It’s a very active class relying on good timing and good knowledge of your skills and utility. Shatter was amazing in WvW yesterday coupled with a few glamours and Greatsword sniping.

Listen. I understand shatter can be mediocre if you’re squeezing in clone regen, phantasm damage and health traits, but in that case you shouldn’t be focused on shattering as much as I am. Use your shatter for a death shatter after your phantasms have gone a couple rounds. Again. Shatter is very strong and useful when you build specifically for it. I do and I love it. Cursed Shore PvE has been much less frustrating since I started learning this build and the mechanics that make it strong. WvW has been much more fun once I learned how to play with it. It takes time and it takes some dedication, but it’s completely worth it.

But if you don’t like it, there’s no reason to punish yourself. If you just want to spam phantasms, there are plenty of phantasm builds out there that don’t rely on shatter to kill things. Build those. You’ll still use shatter, but not nearly as much. More as a death blow than anything.

Highlights how weak shatter is. Good point

Just to be clear the shatter mechanic does not define the mesmer class, our illusions and clones do and those were what the class was designed around. Shatter is simply something intended to use them, but for most specs shattering seems to be more of a handicap then anything else.

If i spec to buff by illusions why would i want to destroy them? If i spec to to trick my foe into beleiveing one of my clones is me why would I want to shatter? I would not.

Most of the other mesmers I talk to in sPvP or WvWvW seem to say the same thing — they dont use shatter nor do they enjoy the mechanic.

Besides the fact that shattering completely contradicts builds that focus on keeping clones/phantasms out for dmg/utility there are definately some things about shattering that just feels bleh at times, especially as I’m now leveling my mesmer.

The fact that Mind Wrack has a cooldown and feels wasted whenever you don’t have 3 clones feels kind of bad, sure it’s designed for burst I get that and when specced for it does a great job at burst, but anytime you have a clone that doesn’t do anything and your mind wrack is on cooldown it just feels bad and you have this lull in your dmg output.

Cry of Frustration definately feels terrible, especially w/o traits, the long cooldown combined with ONLY doing up to 3 stacks of confusion and a tiny bit of direect dmg with only a 3 second duration, that’s such a small window to even make use of that small stack of confusion, it just feels bad all around. It should atleast be adjusted to have the same cooldown as Mind Wrack and essentially be the condition version of it.

Diversion also feels terrible, a longish cooldown daze that doesn’t even stack with itself, it’s esssentially only useful with a single clone and just wastes your other clones, you could potentially spread clones out so they daze one after the other but that’s really difficult and unreliable to do. On top of that, since your clones have to run to your targets to shatter in the first place, it’s not even an on demand instant daze, it just feels bad.

Distortion I think is the only shatter I think feels right although again there’s the issue of having the same cooldown even if you only managed to get a single clone distortion, but still it’s solid.

Trying to make use of phantasms with shatters is also annoying mainly because of the delay phantasms have before they attack after spawning, if they attacked instantly it would feel a bit more fluid. And another crazy idea, what if Shatter cooldowns were adjusted based on what level clone shatter it was.

For example a 3 clone shatter Mind Wrack would be 15 seconds, a 1 clone Mind Wrack would be 5 seconds. A 1 clone Distortion would be 20 seconds and 3 clone Distortion be 60 seconds. Atleast then it wouldn’t be so terrible doing single clone shatters and could also make it more fluid, would definately have less deadzones where shatters are on cooldown.

In the end, it’s sort of the same problem as having Phantasm/Clones baked into your weapon skills, it’s just forced on you. Shatters are your mechanic and not using them is just a waste of utility/dmg but they can clash completely with your chosen playstyle.

I definately love the “pet” mesmer playstyle, it reminds me so much of Theurgist from DAoC and makes me wish ALL clones/phantasms were equally strong/useful. But I can also see the appeal of shatter builds, spitting out illusionary bombs.

Carighan: “and there’s tons of Mesmer (and I don’t mean in sPvP, I mean in WvW)”

Strange that you say that, because Mesmers are the rarest class I see in WvW. And if not, certainly near the bottom. And I’ve maybe seen 1 mesmer in entire WvW from the beginning, who uses shatters.

Then don’t use them, sweety!
(I will, because Iberserker+wrack from 3orb full glass mesmer is only compared to 3 dancing norns in pink)

Yeah… Shatters are wery weak and not fun at all… or? Before you flame the mecanic realy try it out. Its in my eyes alot stronger than phantasm build as it alot harder to counter. ESPECIALY if you go for a hybrid. yes shatter a phantasm can be good.

Say a 20-20-20-0-10 build. Sword clone hit for 5k while bf go for 3-4k 0,1 sec after while bf still going 3 clones hit in mindwrack for 1-2k each and then you chane to staff to end hes suffering. I talk pvp now ofc not pve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=btL7-ynAH9A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q8EAgOuoivM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sSBRyJZGrAY

Diversion btw is fantastic if you use it on right time / place. spread yopur clones out in diferent ranges and they hit in a chain.

I love shatter. I love everything about shatter. I love shatter so much I spent 30 points in illusions just to apply shatter to myself as well. Shatter loves me back. Shatter unloads 10k burst on non-bunkers when combo’d into. Shatter is tasty.

~
Signed happy happy shatter/phantasm hybrid mesmer

20/20/0/0/30
Sword/Sword
Staff

Osicat.4139:

Yeah… Shatters are wery weak and not fun at all… or? Before you flame the mecanic realy try it out. Its in my eyes alot stronger than phantasm build as it alot harder to counter. ESPECIALY if you go for a hybrid. yes shatter a phantasm can be good.

Say a 20-20-20-0-10 build. Sword clone hit for 5k while bf go for 3-4k 0,1 sec after while bf still going 3 clones hit in mindwrack for 1-2k each and then you chane to staff to end hes suffering. I talk pvp now ofc not pve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=btL7-ynAH9A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q8EAgOuoivM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sSBRyJZGrAY

Diversion btw is fantastic if you use it on right time / place. spread yopur clones out in diferent ranges and they hit in a chain.

I don’t get it. Do you have a problem reading or just like to read selectively? Shatter is fine in sPvP, as has been said in numerous posts above. But it sucks in WvW and PvE. Yes I’m sure you can video a 1 on 1 in WvW that shows you can beat someone with shatter. I can do the same with just about any other skill combination. Shatter is overall bad in WvW and PvE, which is why no one uses it except people in videos who cut 30 days of their gameplay to 3 minutes of what they want to show.

Of course, I already said this 3x in previous posts so I’m sure someone will reply again with “What? Shatter bad? Look how cool I am in this sPvP video”.

I personally don’t Shatter that often, I’m going for a condition/illusion build, but them shatters really help in a tough spot.
Remember that you don’t have to shatter just because you have 3 clones out.

Well then qq about the whole consept situations in WvWvW where every close range attack (inc shatters in many ways) have a problem. QQ i cant use my mele sword eather from a wall etc.

Shatters are strong in wvwvw aswell as in sPvP, no you cant stand on a wall and use it to cry of frustration ppl on the floor but so you cant with a mele wep eather. Thats why you carry 1 in your bag. But in every smal scale encounter, 5 ppl attacking a camp etc shatters do good dmg and keep you alive.

You just qq about a mecanic of a class that you have a disslike for. What you want to reach with this? You apperently dont want tipps how to make it work. You want the devs to reporgram the whole game for you so you get a pet class? You want the devs to reprogram the class so you get consumnable minions? Try play necro or ranger. there is a reason there is different classes in the game. Some dont appeal to some ppl thats all.

You say it suck in pve? Wrong just a l2p issue, sucks in wvw? Again same just that you need to apply it to different situations and ply in another way. There is different ways to go with your class and if you chose to go phantasm spec with pet focus do so by al means but dont expect the shattersto be as important/good for you as for a fully shatter spec.

You cant both keep the cookie and eat it you know mr.

Osicat.4139:

You want the devs to reprogram the class so you get consumnable minions?

Well, illusions are consumable minions. They are short-lived pets that you consume to gain a temporary damage burst or temporary defense. I would have thought that was clearly the whole point of the shatter/illusion mechanic – are you really arguing otherwise?

I know that a lot of players like the shatter mechanic, and a lot of players dislike it. From what I recall, whether shatter was a mechanic that ‘fit’ the class theme and meshed well with the rest of the profession implementation has been a heavily debated topic since the first beta weekend. If nothing else, that would seem to indicate that there is either a problem with the expectations players have for the profession or there is a problem with the implementation.

You really have to love kiting, twitch-based combat and minion management/bombing in order to like any build of Mesmer. I don’t think I’d mind if there were some builds like that, as long as there were some builds that weren’t.

As a minion micromanagement, positional twitch-based class, I think it works fine. As a master weaver of illusion, denial and manipulative mental magic, I think it’s a rather confused implementation in some respects. It’s almost as though it was intended to function one way but the direction changed just before release, so there are a mix of mechanics that have been designed or perhaps redesigned with two different goals in mind.

Personally, I feel some of the current mechanics detract from my vision of the Mesmer as an immersive and consistent profession – but I acknowledge there are a lot of good arguments about how it can be useful mechanically and perhaps the ‘flavour’ and meaning isn’t important. Certainly I know for PvP it’s far less important to feel attachment to your avatar and the theme or style is hardly relevant compared to how effective it is relative to other professions. Minion-bomber or minion-master professions are also broadly popular, so I can understand that many enjoy that style of play even if it isn’t really what was expected from this particular profession.

Maybe the unfortunate mistake was to throw out the term ‘living hex’ in early marketing, a phrase that is probably most responsible for a lot of the dashed expectations.

A lot of classes have similar issues, where people don’t like the base mechanic and the base mechanic is very underwhelming if you don’t trait for it. Off the top of my head: Death Shroud for Necromancers, and Steal for Thieves. Like with Mesmers, you can get away with mostly neglecting the F keys and not traiting for the “core class mechanic”. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were even Warriors who traited for the Fury levels boosting stats and had a playstyle built around not pressing F1.

People trying to mock the OP by saying there’s no point in his playing a Mesmer just because he rarely/doesn’t shatter are being ridiculous. Not building a Mesmer around shattering is perfectly viable, and still plays uniquely like a Mesmer and not some other class. I don’t think Arenanet intends for everyone to revolve their playstyle around using their F-key as much as possible, considering there’s so many builds for so many classes which neglect those mechanics.

It’s a case of just one aspect of the class which, if you don’t like it, don’t worry about it. That’s kind of the point of traits and different builds anyway. Even within a single class, there’s diversity.

Well the shatter mechanic is certainly more interesting then just having your phantasm’s out 24/7 doing their own thing.

Only shatter that bugs me is Diversion because it doesn’t scale with clones unless they are placed at perfect distances which is not always feasable on certain weapon sets and quite clumsy.

It would be nice if it would give another effect atleast based on number of clones.

1 clone = daze
2 clones = daze + cripple
3 clones = daze + chill
3 clones+ IP = daze + immobilize or Stun

Just an idea.
I guess a vulnerability bonus would work too with the diversion theme since you are more vulnerable while distracted.

Also more unique control abilities would be allot of fun aswell !
Maybe in the future

Knote.2904:

Trying to make use of phantasms with shatters is also annoying mainly because of the delay phantasms have before they attack after spawning, if they attacked instantly it would feel a bit more fluid. And another crazy idea, what if Shatter cooldowns were adjusted based on what level clone shatter it was.

They do attack as soon as they’re spawned, BUT they are bugged at the moment if you don’t have 5 points in inspiration. Without it, they have a 1 sec delay before attacking and with it, the damage pops before they even materialize. This will be fixed along with all the other bugs eventually.

As far as the Mesmer’s mechanics, the only change I’d like is Phantasms contributing more to shatters than clones. Shattering them should cause better effects than shattering clones is all I think the profession needs. Although I feel this is probably harder to implement than it sounds or they would’ve already done this. Perhaps a redo of Diversion and certain Phantasms as well.

The hard part about editing the Mesmer (or any profession) in any way is to keep different builds balanced. They could buff shatters across the board, but they would have to edit shatter-centric traits heavily as to keep the “Shatterstorm” Mesmers in check without nerfing them into the ground.

As I see it, the solution to this “problem” is fairly simple. It seems to me that the players who dislike Shattering (including myself) mostly do so because we like having Phantasms out to deal a large number of damage and/or provide added utility. We don’t have any problems getting rid of our Clones; we just want to keep our Phantasms around so they can continue to wreak havoc. As such, all ANet needs to do is change the Shatter mechanic so that it shatters Clones, but NOT Phantasms. (Phantasms should not be removed from the Illusion limit as that would mean a Mesmer, in lengthy boss battles, could have upwards of 5 or 6 Phantasmal Duelists/Berserkers/Mages all pummelling a boss enemy. That would just get ridiculous.)

This would make it easy for a Mesmer to have one or two Phantasms out to gain the benefits, but still have one or two Clones to activate the Shatter mechanic when needed. I know there have been several situations where I would have loved to Shatter some of my Clones to gain Distortion or deal a nice packet of AoE damage, but I’d just summoned my Phantasmal Duelist barely 5 seconds ago and it felt like a waste to get rid of her so soon.

As an extension, Zaxares, buff the Phantasm health (and to a lesser extent, damage) but limit them to one at a time, seperately from the three clones (which persist through death, but Phantasm does not). A Mesmer has one Phantasm out for their damage and support granted to them, but it doesn’t refrain them from using the button.

As an aside, under this, Phantasms could be shatterable, so long as they gave damage and something else. For example, shattering Defender gives Protection (on top of Mind Wrack or Distortion or whichever Shatter you used), and Swordsman would give single target burst stacks of Vulnerability. Repeat as you see fit.

With the limited number of Phantasms, you don’t have to wait until 2-3 for your damage to be rolling. Bolstering it is still an option through traits, but you still gain benefit if you have to Shatter it. And counter to that, for those that play minion bomber and clone spam pretty much anything, it means that having a Phantasm up isn’t just so you can have a third clone for that Mind Wrack, but that you’re breaking it to get something on top of it.

It limits the wind-up problem that Mesmers have in Dynamic Events, or even any Boss/Champion with any AoE. Not buffing their damage (more than a little) will also put more damage back into the Mesmer’s active skills rather than set/forget Legion builds or hoping to make up for it by Mind Wracking on cooldown.

But most importantly, it brings Shatters and Phantasms into the Profession together, rather than working against eachother. They need to feel part of the same toolkit, and right now that’s seriously lacking.

Shatter should deal more damage/additional effects if shattering Phantasms.

I was going to post something… then I accidentally hit the back button on my mouse… FML

Long story short I don’t think the mechanic is healthy for the class since it’s not neutral enough for all builds to use it well.

Although I disagree I don’t think shatter is “unfun” But I don’t think Shatter build and phantasm build should be all we can viably do.

Phant, Bunker, Condition Mes Suffer from shatters (for the most part maybe one thing on a long cool down will be moderately helpful)

Mantra Burst/Mantra Support only really use distortion (still a long C/D)

imo I think clones should be more useful in builds that don’t rely on shatters, but the clones stay as they are now for shatter builds.

(this is a very watered down version of what I was going to say…)

How much fun it is to shatter really depends on your build. Obviously if you are going for a phantasm army build, you are going to get less out of it, and it feels rather counter intuitive.

On the other hand, I have a blast with some builds setting up a trap and then blasting it in my foes’ faces and then just when they think I’ve blown my trump, the illusions start pounding them again. I can understand it’s not for everyone, but to those complaining it’s not in theme or “mesmery” I just don’t agree at all. What’s deception and trickery worth without the reveal? You lead your prey through false images and deceptions confounding his perceptions, and just when he thinks he figured you out, you shatter the mirage in his face and cut him with it. What’s more “mesmery” than that (except maybe denial, and we have plenty of dazes for that)?

The only things I think the shatter mechanic needs are a buffed effect for each shattered phantasm and illusions need to run faster to their targets when commanded. And perhaps a bigger AOE for DEs.

Shatter is unfun.
That’s not even deniable. The amount of mesmers using Shatter is extremely low.

Generic Mesmers or good Mesmers?

As an aside, under this, Phantasms could be shatterable, so long as they gave damage and something else.

They do, depending on traits.

There are a billions of traits littered throughout all lines that give bonus effects for shatters — Might, Vuln, Heal, condition removal, Confusion, boon strip, zzz.

Shatter does great if you trait into it.

Shatter doesn’t do much if you don’t.

Shatter is fun if you are designed around shattering, otherwise it’s pretty useless.

What would be great is if you could modify the shatter to do something else if you trait differently. Like turn shatters into mantras or the like if you trait into a build where you want to keep out your phantasms/clones. So Mind Wrack turns into a small DD, Cry a single stack of 3 confusions, etc, losing the benefit for multiple illusions at the same time not blowing up your current ones.

I have no traits for shatters and Mind Wrack x3 crits for 10k for me in WvW.

EasymodeX

They do, depending on traits.
There are a billions of traits littered throughout all lines that give bonus effects for shatters — Might, Vuln, Heal, condition removal, Confusion, boon strip, zzz.

And that’s ignoring what I said, but thanks again for trying, Easy.

Each and every single one of those effects are granted by shattering clones already. The game does not differentiate between a 0 damage low health duplicate, or the hard hitting and useful Phatasms, and because of such it feels unrewarding.

If shattering a Phantasm rewarded you beyond what shattering a dodge-roll or scepter clone does, for giving up more than a clone, it wouldn’t be such a disconnect. Or are we going to play this game, Easy?

And that’s ignoring what I said, but thanks again for trying, Easy.

I read what you said. Perhaps you should be clearer and state that you want “IWIN NUKE ALL EMAIN” in your F1.

Phantasms already provide more effect for their activation than clones. There’s no reason why they need to provide more effect when you shatter them, considering that their cooldowns are not very long and you will replace them anyways.

1. If phantasms were long-term pets like ranger pets, your point would have merit.

2. If the “high alternative cost” phantasm scenario didn’t rely on a build completely devoted to centering the Mesmer’s output solely on the phantasms in contrived PvE situations where 3 phantasms actually exist, then alternative (superior) combat sequences to incurring that alternative cost would not be viable and as a result your point would have merit.

However, they are not and that does, so the alternative cost you imagine is not very major in practice.

I think shattering illusions is fun because it adds another level of depth to the game play.

I don’t think playing a non-shatter mesmer is a viable build because by the time you burn through all of your weapon skills so they’re on cooldown, you end up summoning a 4th illusion (dispelling your 1st) giving up the free dps/buff/condition you would have gotten if you shattered. Not to mention that most times they only get one attack off before getting killed by AOE.

Talking about clones vs phantasms… I mean it’s a cool idea to have the shatter mechanic change based on the type of illusion, but isn’t this class hard enough to play without having to keep track of what illusions I’ve casted and which ones are still alive. Maybe if you traited for it… I’d be all for it replacing some of those worthless 30pt traits.

I only shatter at the end of the fight when I know it will kill the enemy. So should you. Shatter builds are meh.

shattering phantasm should do something else, its such a waste to lose that precious damage.

I like the shatter mechanic. I’m so use to it, that I find myself jamming F1 on my other toons when the mobs are near death… then lament that I’m not on my mesmer.

Even if you use your illusion army purely for damage/distraction, the shatter is still useful when your target is about to die. In this scenario, the shatter is a total bonus and completely awesome.

Edit: the shatter mechanic can be very strategic if you’re on your game. A well timed daze (F3) or distortion (F4) can be incredibly valuable.

I do feel bummed when I shatter and a phantasm or two is in the mix.

To get the most out of the abilities available without feeling like I’m losing something each time I shatter, I’d personally go with 2 separate limits. Have 3 circles for clones, 3 for phantasms.

Only clones and IP count to shatter mechanics, lower the damage of clones and phantasms OR give them a time limit of existence.

Would be pretty awesome having 5-6 illusions around me during a fight >.<