Shatter mesmer need more damge..
Dude honestly i have the same problem, I use a condition build but before i finish them off they either cleanse the conditions or run away. haha.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
Just from my experience its really hard to fight condition builds with shatter mesmer, most of the time i lose from overload of condition, but when i can get distance i have a better chance at winning. My problem is that when i go in for a shatter i do not do enough damage and pretty much point where i lose, condition builds probably have bit too much toughness. Im at a point where i will hang up the shatter build and use a condition build. My question do you guys thing that berserker builds need more damage?
High toughness is a problem as it’s countering your power, and with the amount of hp’s out there these days you’ll have a big deficit to make up in damage. So make sure your targets dont have protection up (cleanse it, or arcane thievery for the steal). That said it could just be your method.
In any kind of shatter build, condi’s are going to kitten you. There’s a reason you don’t see zerker shatter mesmers out there these days.
So do shatter builds need more damage? No. Playing smarter is most of it, but also the devs need to make changes to allow shatter mesmers more condi removal. They’ve fallen behind the meta.
Dude honestly i have the same problem, I use a condition build but before i finish them off they either cleanse the conditions or run away. haha.
You guys are just trying to live at each end of the dps spectrum. To do that you’re giving up what’s needed to actually win the fight (though in the case of the poor shatter zerker it’d mean traiting entirely into the wrong tree). I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, mobility is king. All builds should start with mobility. Why do you think Traveller runes have become so popular? It’s not 60g for a full set because people like the pretty picture on the runes.
Dude honestly i have the same problem, I use a condition build but before i finish them off they either cleanse the conditions or run away. haha.
You guys are just trying to live at each end of the dps spectrum. To do that you’re giving up what’s needed to actually win the fight (though in the case of the poor shatter zerker it’d mean traiting entirely into the wrong tree). I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, mobility is king. All builds should start with mobility. Why do you think Traveller runes have become so popular? It’s not 60g for a full set because people like the pretty picture on the runes.
I for one haven’t tried traveler runes yet. But is it worth it to sacrifice other stat points from other runes for the mov speed?
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
Dude honestly i have the same problem, I use a condition build but before i finish them off they either cleanse the conditions or run away. haha.
You guys are just trying to live at each end of the dps spectrum. To do that you’re giving up what’s needed to actually win the fight (though in the case of the poor shatter zerker it’d mean traiting entirely into the wrong tree). I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, mobility is king. All builds should start with mobility. Why do you think Traveller runes have become so popular? It’s not 60g for a full set because people like the pretty picture on the runes.
I for one haven’t tried traveler runes yet. But is it worth it to sacrifice other stat points from other runes for the mov speed?
I don’t know, I don’t run it. That said the other benefits of traveler synergize with zerker builds. As for condi builds, you’re sacrificing max condi damage for mobility (which, as said above, is king). If you’re a hybrid, then I suppose there’s no real loss.
If you can get your mobility/swiftness from other sources however, it’s a mute point. If you want to answer the question a different way: just look at travelers popularity and that might be telling.
Woo Hoo! Let’s bring back might stacks from last December! More Power creep Yayyyy!!!
As sarcastic as I am I would like that even though I know it’s imba.
That being said the force off point or a war of attrition with the odds stacked against you isn’t very fun. I don’t think shatter needs more damage but I think we need a nice
3-5 condi clear on a 15-20 second cool down that isn’t two procs of a mantra followed by a charge mid combat. And maybe make torch Phan c/d better so it can be better for cleanse when traited.
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
Are you sure your damage isn’t just being mitigated?
Shatters are very obvious and easy to dodge, so it just might be that your opponent has dodged all your damage.
Classic shatter builds are very do-or-bust. If you didn’t kill someone in one or two tries it’s time to stealth away. Alternatively, try shattered conditions for a more sustainable build.
“… but I hate the idea ‘It may not make sense at first’.
I want it to make sense right away, then another sense later. Murkiness =/= quality "
- CCP Abraxis
I want it to make sense right away, then another sense later. Murkiness =/= quality "
- CCP Abraxis
(edited by Heinel.6548)
Dude honestly i have the same problem, I use a condition build but before i finish them off they either cleanse the conditions or run away. haha.
You guys are just trying to live at each end of the dps spectrum. To do that you’re giving up what’s needed to actually win the fight (though in the case of the poor shatter zerker it’d mean traiting entirely into the wrong tree). I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, mobility is king. All builds should start with mobility. Why do you think Traveller runes have become so popular? It’s not 60g for a full set because people like the pretty picture on the runes.
I for one haven’t tried traveler runes yet. But is it worth it to sacrifice other stat points from other runes for the mov speed?
I don’t know, I don’t run it. That said the other benefits of traveler synergize with zerker builds. As for condi builds, you’re sacrificing max condi damage for mobility (which, as said above, is king). If you’re a hybrid, then I suppose there’s no real loss.
If you can get your mobility/swiftness from other sources however, it’s a mute point. If you want to answer the question a different way: just look at travelers popularity and that might be telling.
I use Traveler’s runes in my Blackwater condition variant with good success. 25 stacks of Corruption and a constant 6-9 stacks of Might help make up for the loss of damage from Traveler’s runes. Also once you have 25 stacks of Corruption, use a 2nd torch with Sigil of Bursting. (Sigil of Torment might even be better but I still have to test it).
Also keep in mind that Traveler’s runes also provide you with +15% Boon duration and +10% Condition duration which is nice.
The only class I have real problems with is ironically Shatter and Phantasm Mesmers.
Fantasme Bloodwen [R.I.P. Mesmer] | Andi Runi [Warrior] | Bonedoggle [Necro] | Zooerasty [Ranger]
Angry Intent [AI] | Yak’s Bend |
Angry Intent [AI] | Yak’s Bend |
I think they need to do more damage, because right now to do more or less a good amount of damage you need to go full berserker.
If a d/d thief go full berserk with 120% of crit dmg will do 7-10k damage every 3 seconds, the mesmer can do 7k every 10s and it can be easily healed/avoided. If you run too far like elementalist or warrior gs the clones explode by themself at midway.
Sometimes you fight against classes that can overheal your shatter damage but they can still kill you quite easily because you have crappy defenses stats, the only thing you can do is teleport around for about 5mins until you get tired or the other one receive help.
I think Compounding Power should be 5% instead of 3% and Duelling grandmaster traits should have something useful so we can spend 30 point on it and get 10% more of crit dmg.
Also would be nice to increase the damage of Cry of Frustration.
When shattering the clones should get huge speed like those risen kamikaze mobs.
We need another immobilize or stun or chill, right now you can use sword 2 only for def or after iLeap.
Move DE to adept so we can create more builds.
I don’t think shatter mesmer’s need more damage, but they do need something. Insta-killers are no fun to play (or play against).
Personally, I wonder if there is something that Anet can do to buff IP. Although it’s clearly a powerful trait, few use it except for the small number of shatter mesmers that are still out there. Not sure what a balancing buff to IP would look like.
Shatter needs a significant sustained DPS increase in PvE. Not sure how to accomplish this but it really needs it. I’d love to play shatter in dungeons.
“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”
Dude honestly i have the same problem, I use a condition build but before i finish them off they either cleanse the conditions or run away. haha.
You guys are just trying to live at each end of the dps spectrum. To do that you’re giving up what’s needed to actually win the fight (though in the case of the poor shatter zerker it’d mean traiting entirely into the wrong tree). I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, mobility is king. All builds should start with mobility. Why do you think Traveller runes have become so popular? It’s not 60g for a full set because people like the pretty picture on the runes.
I for one haven’t tried traveler runes yet. But is it worth it to sacrifice other stat points from other runes for the mov speed?
I don’t know, I don’t run it. That said the other benefits of traveler synergize with zerker builds. As for condi builds, you’re sacrificing max condi damage for mobility (which, as said above, is king). If you’re a hybrid, then I suppose there’s no real loss.
If you can get your mobility/swiftness from other sources however, it’s a mute point. If you want to answer the question a different way: just look at travelers popularity and that might be telling.
I use Traveler’s runes in my Blackwater condition variant with good success. 25 stacks of Corruption and a constant 6-9 stacks of Might help make up for the loss of damage from Traveler’s runes. Also once you have 25 stacks of Corruption, use a 2nd torch with Sigil of Bursting. (Sigil of Torment might even be better but I still have to test it).
Also keep in mind that Traveler’s runes also provide you with +15% Boon duration and +10% Condition duration which is nice.
The only class I have real problems with is ironically Shatter and Phantasm Mesmers.
You and a lot of others are doing (having to do?) the same thing. But swiftness 33% > traveller 25%. Then add to that teleports, leaps, gap opener/closers. All 25% move speed on it’s own accounts for is being able to either outrun someone without anything else, or keep up with another traveler user who has no gap openers/closers. The playing field becomes level once everyone’s saved up their 60g.
Shatter needs a significant sustained DPS increase in PvE. Not sure how to accomplish this but it really needs it. I’d love to play shatter in dungeons.
I guess I was thinking about this topic in terms of burst damage. It is my sense that shatter mesmers are less effective than other types of builds across both PvE an PvP metas. As you suggest, one way to address this would be to increase sustained damage.
One idea: have the IP trait include an extra reduction in shatter recharge (similar to “Slight of Hand” for thieves). Small adjustments could allow for more shatters per unit time, and therfore more DPS. This would not increase the type of burst damage that can insta-kill someone.
Just a thought.
One idea: have the IP trait include an extra reduction in shatter recharge (similar to “Slight of Hand” for thieves). Small adjustments could allow for more shatters per unit time, and therfore more DPS. This would not increase the type of burst damage that can insta-kill someone.
Just a thought.
It would bring Mind Wrack down to 7.5 seconds and would likely be the fix needed. That being said getting Anet to do it will be much tougher. PU in PvP is insanely strong so even a change like this won’t do much for the PvP pop in terms of trade off. For the PvE pop it would be a true resurgence.
I really like that idea in terms of the investment into illusions but, the chances of getting done and convincing the devs (if that is possible) seems slim. After the 10th and the meta changes (depending on where everyone ends up) getting another buff for this class might be nearly impossible in the short term.
Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele
I don’t think shatter mesmer’s need more damage, but they do need something. Insta-killers are no fun to play (or play against).
Personally, I wonder if there is something that Anet can do to buff IP. Although it’s clearly a powerful trait, few use it except for the small number of shatter mesmers that are still out there. Not sure what a balancing buff to IP would look like.
OOOO I got one. Clones do 5-10% of your base damage =D
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
So you think that con dmg > shattering build guys? I heard that Blackwater build is awesome nowadays…
Shatter = Burst dommage.
Shatter easy dodge, and clone move very slow.
More dps if no shatter : no loose Phantasm, no loose condi clone dommage and boon or kick boon with staff or sword.
Clone brain a little ennemy and defensive trait with clone death protect more than a shatter.
Shatter is situationnal.
Adding a bit of damage to clones would solve some issues too. A shatter mesmer or phantasm mesmer with 1x phantasm does below average DPS. A phantasm mesmer with 3x phantasms does very good damage. there is a huge discrepancy between the two situations though. If clones could do some damage, like Daishi ‘s 5% to even 15% of your base weapon damage we would probably see a pretty good stabilizing effect. I would even say tack this onto Illusionary Persona or Grandmaster Dueling or make it only available for x seconds after a shatter. Phantasms are in a good place IMHO and don’t need to be buffed really.
Blood~
“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”
The problem with shatter damage these days is because everyone is wearing toughness armour. Add to that protection and they cannot keep up sustained damage.
Fantasme Bloodwen [R.I.P. Mesmer] | Andi Runi [Warrior] | Bonedoggle [Necro] | Zooerasty [Ranger]
Angry Intent [AI] | Yak’s Bend |
Angry Intent [AI] | Yak’s Bend |
The problem with shatter damage these days is because everyone is wearing toughness armour. Add to that protection and they cannot keep up sustained damage.
Even in PvE Shatter does pretty low sustained DPS. From my testing its signifigantly lower then what I would consider average DPS across all classes and zerker builds. Shatter needs some love.
“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”
I don’t think shatter mesmer’s need more damage, but they do need something. Insta-killers are no fun to play (or play against).
Personally, I wonder if there is something that Anet can do to buff IP. Although it’s clearly a powerful trait, few use it except for the small number of shatter mesmers that are still out there. Not sure what a balancing buff to IP would look like.
I totaly agree to the first part. The damage of MindWrack is rly good. The bigger problem ist how to land it.
Due to the huge amount of aoes used this times in pvp, illusions die fast, which means if you want to shatter with 3 illusions, you probably might have to use Mirror Images, or “waste” dodgeroles in order to create clones.
As far as I know, the shatters of illusions which are blinded fail. Therefore, they often miss.
I also have the feeling, that sometimes shatters dont hit (with every illusion), if you aren’t on plain ground.
The next problem is, that shatters are easily dodgeably, if your illusions are too far away, not to mention illusionary leap with all of its “features”.
What game mode are you playing? In 1v1 roaming/wvw duels it will always be hard to balance and the reality is condi and/ phantasm) are king there.
One thing I would say is runes of lyssa helps shatter mesmers a lot, pretty much essential in tpvp and makes shatter the best build there still. Although obviously in wvw losing the mobility from centaur/traveller would be too big a blow.