Guild Wars 2

I’ve levelled to 60 using a Phantasm based GS + S/F and traits 10/20/0/10/10 and Eagle runes (http://tinyurl.com/m2oho7x)

I’m thinking about switching to a shatter build (looking at Osicats Mist build http://tinyurl.com/cxtj3xg) with Air runes (Staff + S/F)

Before I go to the expensive of buying a new set of gear, which is the more suited to solo PVE play? (no intention of doing dungeons, but WvW at 80)

Shatter builds are good in pve (and more dynamic and fun than phantasmal imo), but maybe for leveling a phantasmal build is more solid and safe. Personally, as soon as I reached lv 80 I swtiched from a legion phantasmal build to a shatterbuild. I used a glass cannon shatter for low level fotm too (1-16, not actually interested in going further) with no problems and having fun. About the runes, well I don’t like Air too much. I have a full exotic set with Air runes which i use only for jp’s there are better options imo in pve and wvw if u already use focus for swiftness (Osi used those runes for builds without focus and cause he likes the lightning strikes as a counter to thief backstab mainly, problem that u don’t have in pve) My suggestion? ofc Divinity if u can afford them :P

i just moved from my leveling legion phantasm build to an glass cannon shatter build with dmg on conditions and power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MeyC4IPC0 , can kill extremely fast, but extreamly fluffy … if i get agro from where i dont expect it i am quickly down.

does it make sense to have a class connon build in end game content, or should i get more survivability?

Brullyra.1592:

I’ve levelled to 60 using a Phantasm based GS + S/F and traits 10/20/0/10/10 and Eagle runes (http://tinyurl.com/m2oho7x)

I’m thinking about switching to a shatter build (looking at Osicats Mist build http://tinyurl.com/cxtj3xg) with Air runes (Staff + S/F)

Before I go to the expensive of buying a new set of gear, which is the more suited to solo PVE play? (no intention of doing dungeons, but WvW at 80)

For WvW I’d stick to shatter, it works great in smaller numbers and your clones provides fodder to soak up a couple of skills from the other teams.

I wouldn’t go with Osicats build tho as I find it to be lacking, it works, but it is rather unrefined.

Don’t go with the air-runes, theres simply better options out there, if you want additional crit damage: Go with Divinity, not Air, not only does it provide more crit damage but also more useful stats. If you can’t afford divinity then look into dolyak, melandru or mesmer runes for WvW.

Personally I’d also skip the sword in favor of a scepter and change the major traits around abit, remember: You’re shattering the illusions, you’re not keeping them alive.

does it make sense to have a class connon build in end game content, or should i get more survivability?

Depends on the endgame content but as a mesmer you can easily survive as a full glass-cannon in both dungeons and fractals simply through proper dispersions and dodging.

@Lue Dropping sword would you then go Staff / Sceptre+Focus?

What sort of trait setup would you go for instead?

I would remove the 20 traits in Chaos and replace them with 20 in Domination, thus making it like this:

Domination – 20 points, Major traits: I, IV.
Dueling – 20 points, Major traits: I, X.(or V,X).
Illusions – 30 points, Major traits: I, VI, XI.

I would go staff, scepter/Focus
With the clone generation from this build it’d let you repeatedly stack vulnerability through dominations major trait(IV) when you use any of your shatter-skills, thus upping the damage you can do even further, since your intent was to WvW, you really don’t want the sword either as the only time you want to be in melee is when you’re ready to shatter your clones.

Was just working out a similar build, this is what i’m thinking (at level 62)

http://tinyurl.com/l7l92gk

Its a good start but whats the point of the runes of the centaur? Are you aiming for uptime on swiftness?
Cause the bleed duration is completely wasted when you’re playing shatter and the power can be gotten from other runes that would offer you more.

I would also work in a Superior Sigil of Energy into the build, simply because it lets you both generate 1 additional clone aswell as dodge an additional attack.

So maybe something like Mesmer runes, with the extra prec meaning the Accuracy sigil can be swapped out for an Energy one?

In pve, I would absolutely stick to centaur or air runes. Having reliable access to swiftness without using a focus is really nice, and since it’s only pve, you aren’t going to need to worry about the small amount of stats you sacrifice to get it. Having that you swiftness uptime just makes a world of difference in how your general mobility feels.

As far kittenter vs phantasm goes, shatter is not appropriate for most high level content because it is bursty with little sustained damage. That makes it extremely good in pvp, but not good in dungeons/high fractals. For those, you want a phantasm build.

However, for open world pve, a shatter build works quite fine, and it also works very well in wvw. For just open world pve, go even more offensive than Osi’s standard shattercat: take greatsword +sword/pistol with the option of taking offhand sword instead of pistol. You don’t need any defense in open world pve. You can simply mow through mobs in an offensive build like this.

As an aside, the scepter is a flaming pile of sh*t, completely worthless. There is absolutely no situation (pve) where the scepter is not worse than either the sword, greatsword, or staff. It is slow, low damage, and has clone generation almost slower than your clone on dodge rolls. Do not use it.

I have to disagree with giving up MH sword. Sword/Focus is a fantastic, versatile combo. Blurred frenzy is great in absolutely any situation, and the immobilize from iLeap is very useful. You’ll rarely have time to complete a scepter clone chain, and you’ll be generating tons from Deceptive Evasion (and normal clone skills) anyway. Any benefit gained from being at range can be gained by using a GS or Staff as an off-set instead. Also, as a glassy build, blurred frenzy will save your kitten (on that note, I would recommend a couple of pieces of toughness gear – Legs and Helm give the worst crit-to-stat trade, so swap those first, and get some armor on your trinkets.

I also use Centaur runes for perma-swiftness. Great for staying alive – you will be chased by groups, a lot. It’s unfortunate that mesmers have to rely on this rune set to keep up swiftness, but so it goes. As for the traits, I would take sword CD reduction over far reaching manipulations (assuming you use a MH sword) for WvW, but that’s personal preference. I use blurred frenzy and iLeap basically every time they’re up. If you put 20 in Domination, Shattered Concentration is crazy good against a number of opponents – Guardians, Eles, Engineers (and nearly every class has something worth removing – like Signet of Rage or Rampage as One). Knocking protection off of people is a game changer. 20 in Chaos is also viable, as Staff CD reduction is fantastic for survivability. Playstyle preference really, I like both options – try them out!

Just my two cents

Brullyra.1592:

So maybe something like Mesmer runes, with the extra prec meaning the Accuracy sigil can be swapped out for an Energy one?

Sure that’d work.

@Kirec:

While the animation for the 3rd and final skill for the scepter autoattack can be abit on the slow side, theres simply nothing that hinders you from finishing the combo most of the time, if there is, you’re simply positioned wrong.

As for off-set, the staff is already included to offer quick means for entering and leaving melee range instantaneous.

Furthermore while blurred frenzy is a great means for cutting out a second or 2 of invulnerability, it is simply not efficient in a full shatter-build, I’d definitly keep it around for a hybrid or a phantasm build, but never for shatter.

As for the runes: Permanent swiftness is nice, but with this build you have a couple of great abilities for avoiding getting caught, first and foremost you still have Diversion and Distortion.. combined with Deceptive Evasion you can easily just dodge and send a Diversion to prevent them from actually attacking you for a brief moment, you’ve got blink, you’ve got decoy AND you’ve got 10 seconds of swiftness from the focus, this skill can also be used to cripple the opponents thus benefiting you even further, theres simply no need for the centaur runes, even tho I do agree that permanent swiftness is a great addition, it is merely a convenient bonus and not something that you need to rely upon kittenter.

@Pyroatheist
He wants to WvW at 80, combined with PvE but excluding dungeons, shatter does work just fine in both dungeons and higher fractals by the way.

Furthermore the centaur runes would provide very little for any WvW ventures and there are simply better runes for it, permanent swiftness is far from the most beneficial thing you can attain for WvW.

As for the scepter, well.. I’m sorry but thats just your opinion on it we’ve clearly got different experiences while using it but it is simply not as bad as you make it out to be.

@Lue: Phantasm builds end up better than shatter at high content simply because it allows you to multitask into support.

The swiftness is primarily an open world pve thing. Having that easy access to permanent swiftness just makes exploring so much smoother. Having it in wvw isn’t a bad thing, but you’ll definitely be better off with something else.

For pve, the choice is clear: scepter is horrible. It has clone generation slower than dodge rolling, and nearly as slow as purely using traited mirror blade. It does low damage, has no utility (sword has 2 leap combos, vuln stacking, immobilize, cripple, and boon stripping) and poor active defense, where sword has invulnerability.

For wvw, scepter becomes a somewhat viable choice depending on your play style. However, to use shatter effectively in large groups, you have to be up close and personal or your clones will die too fast to get an effective shatter. For this, you need sword, both for the gap close of illusionary leap and the defense of blurred frenzy.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Lue: Phantasm builds end up better than shatter at high content simply because it allows you to multitask into support.

The swiftness is primarily an open world pve thing. Having that easy access to permanent swiftness just makes exploring so much smoother. Having it in wvw isn’t a bad thing, but you’ll definitely be better off with something else.

For pve, the choice is clear: scepter is horrible. It has clone generation slower than dodge rolling, and nearly as slow as purely using traited mirror blade. It does low damage, has no utility (sword has 2 leap combos, vuln stacking, immobilize, cripple, and boon stripping) and poor active defense, where sword has invulnerability.

For wvw, scepter becomes a somewhat viable choice depending on your play style. However, to use shatter effectively in large groups, you have to be up close and personal or your clones will die too fast to get an effective shatter. For this, you need sword, both for the gap close of illusionary leap and the defense of blurred frenzy.

The sword provides vulnerability from its first 2 attacks on the autoattack, namely Mind Slash and Mind Gash, I can still stack up vulnerability with the scepter, but I’m doing it through my 2nd major trait in the domination line instead, you can cripple/ immobilize with the sword, I can offer up a blind by purposely positioning me so I soak up one attack with the block. It can support just fine so again, your choice is the sword, mine is the scepter, they both do their job just fine, altho I would love to see a rework on Confusing Images.

On the swiftness, yeah, but he was interested in WvW, and because of that theres better runes he can use instead of centaur that will do more good for him in WvW while being marginally worse in PvE.

I’ll just have to disagree with you on the scepter, while the sword does offer you a leap with immobilize, vulnerability stacking and invulnerability every 10 seconds, the scepter grants you more clones aswell as a blind every 12 seconds(or 9½ in the build I’ve suggested).

When you’re going with the blink utility combined with Phase Retreat and Deceptive Evasion you can easily maintain long-range combat while still playing shatter, and while you will have to jump into melee on occasion, you will still be just fine by using the scepter, sure, you might prefer Illusionary leap and blurred defense, personally I prefer Illusionary Counter.

The only real difference is the way you approach it, they’re both viable.

dont forget. sword clones stuck vulm to. so 3 clones+u = 8 vuln in couple sec
and sword do aoe dmg, sceptr only 1 target

@Lue: If you’ve never been chased across the map in WvW by a mini-zerg (or full-on zerg), it’s probably because you died due to lack of swiftness . I suppose it depends on your intent within WvW – if you’re constantly with a group, the swiftness is usually provided by others. For solo roaming, slow = dead. While it’s possible to juke a zerg using terrain w/o swiftness, it’s less likely you’ll get steamrolled (and then have a long, slow walk back and have to re-stack on-kill sigils if you run them). Personal preference, I suppose, but worth considering.

Agree with Pyro about the scepter. I’m not sure if we’re considering the same scenarios, but in active PvP and small scale WvW there are a million reasons you won’t get that full chain off. Positioning helps, but a good opponent is going to be pressuring you to do other things besides chain that clone out. Regarding MH sword, blurred frenzy and iLeap are undeniably useful in a shatter build – for landing shatters and adding burst. I understand differing opinions of course, but I don’t agree at all that sword isn’t efficient in a shatter build.

I do like that we can have this conversation though, as it means the Mesmer has plenty of good options and is well-designed .