Guild Wars 2

In a mesmer vs. mesmer face off, it seems to me the phantasm spec would have a much better chance of winning.

I’m interested to hear what ya’ll have to say about this. Strategies you’ve used vs. other mesmers, thoughts on the superiority of one or the other build in a dueling setting.

GO!

Shatter would win of players were evenly skilled. Would take one mind wrack and there wouldn’t be any phantasms left.

The problem is that the phant spec is buggy right now. If you LOS correctly phants become frozen but you shatter skills cause all clones to “fix” themselves in regard to LOS.

People who understand this simply change the z axis of the game, or run behind something on a different elevation, and phants become pretty useless.

phant build would lose simply because you would be able to dodge roll to prevent atleast 1-2 phantasms from spawning.

where as clones are much easier to generate in a shatter build.

Ok before I start I want to note the game is not balanced around 1 vs 1 even if I undertsand this thread is just about this. Classes who is fantastic in group play might have extremly hard vs a special class in a 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 situation.

Shatter mesmers are a setup that is by far the most flexible of the current mesmer builds atm both the crit and condition or even tank shatter builds. This as they with a good player is wery hard to counter.

Phantasm mesmers can do good ressult in a bigger situation where pl spend their cc,s and defenses fast and hard to track a special player. In a 1 vs 1 situation phantasm mesmer sens last patch have harder especialy vs high avoidance classes.

Shatter crit builds are relying extremly hard on avoidance and acctive defenses, 4 sec dissorsion, 2 sec sword immunity, high crit-vigour regenearation = dodge spam, chaos storm block and what alot of ppl miss by the spec LOS by use blink and portal. Also 50% hp = resetting the shatters and again 4 sec immunity.

This ressult in that a skilled shatter mesmer with atleast 1 object but even without will be able to hard counter phatasm mesmers by deny them their core dmg and defense tool, phantasm. And even if the phantsams mesmer succed to land a phantasm the shatter mesmer have a extremely high cloone regeneration + nearly al skills are aoe dmg. This will shut down a spawned phantasm almost as fast it get cats. This lead to the phantasm mesmer not only lose dmg, he will lose the regeneration/protection setup.

This is my oppinion and I sure there is ppl dissagre with me and I respect that, I talk out of my own experience and teorycrafting.

/Osicat

You do both. Get the 2 traits that increase phantasm damage., spec rest into shatter Use for first attack, then shatterbomb the foe into hell.

@Zexion, Yeah shantasm is a effective and common tPvP spec as I understand, I tryed it a month ago and its fun, Amayasu in my guid did run sword/sword – GS 20-20-10-0-30 for a long time and I know for sure hes burst was amazing, he using hes guardian more now thu as we have 4 shatter mesmers in our 12 man team with him and 3 is kinda enought.

/Osicat

Wow REALY … my god how can people even talk this bullkitten as if they had an idear…

Did you even tried it ??? I did

Phatasm mesm is by far the strongest 1vs1 spec in gw2…
In a duel with a shatter you will win in 8 of 10 times

shatter is one of the best roamer out there but he cant win every 1vs1 and he cant def a point… (well he can… but wasting his real potential)

Any shatter out there can try to win vs my or my guild mates phatasm mesmer…
Just pm … winner gets 30 silver … loser has to pay

but you will regret it…

Dexxer.3174:

Wow REALY … my god how can people even talk this bullkitten as if they had an idear…

Did you even tried it ??? I did

Phatasm mesm is by far the strongest 1vs1 spec in gw2…
In a duel with a shatter you will win in 8 of 10 times

shatter is one of the best roamer out there but he cant win every 1vs1 and he cant def a point… (well he can… but wasting his real potential)

Any shatter out there can try to win vs my or my guild mates phatasm mesmer…
Just pm … winner gets 30 silver … loser has to pay

but you will regret it…

Yea and when the foe aoes your phantasms then what? You are a sitting duck.

Phantasm shatter is the way to go.

Shatter them ? And … not that iam dead after one shazter… you need about 5-10 shaatter to kill a good phatsm mesmer like me and my phatasms do 4-6 k damage every 3 sec EACH one your dead befpre i get under 50% … you theorycrafting … seems like you dont play the game… or maybe you just new to the game <r30/40

oh and about shatsm… is even worse.. he cant win a 1vs1 vs a shatter not a phatsm … he is just a theory fun build

Dexxer.3174:

my phatasms do 4-6 k damage every 3 sec EACH one your dead befpre i get under 50%

That’s a slight hyperbole there. There isn’t a phantasm in the game with a 3s attack rate. Most are roughly 5~6s per attack with Phantasmal Haste or about 7s without. Some, like the warden, are a whopping 12/14s.

I suspect your damage numbers might be a slight exaggeration, too. Even the old berserker never cranked out a minimum of 4k. Unless you’re talking about the warden, which could routinely chunk out 8k, but I seriously doubt you’re using that versus targets with enough neurons to step back a couple feet.

BTW, I’m not taking sides in this argument either for or against shatter or phantasm or hybrid styles. I don’t do enough sPvP to really have a side in this one. It would be nice to see some calm discussion without hyperbole or posturing, though.

Ya the reason I posted this is because I originally thought as Osicat says that the shatter build would win handily, but after getting my backside handed to me a couple rounds in a dueling hotjoin server (love the community in these btw) I started to question.

I think it has something to do with regen/prot uptime on the phantasm specs mitigating my mind wrack damage. Also, your dodge clones aggro onto a bunch of various phantasms or clones (that will not die to one clone hitting them) and if the phantasm mesmer spaces them out enough your aoe is much less effective.

So anyway – ya it turned out exactly opposite of how I thought. I’m trying to figure out why.

If they fix the phantasm delay, now with our boon traits fixed, I think the “Legion” build will become more popular again

My vote goes to the Mantra mesmer.

Dexxer.3174:

Shatter them ? And … not that iam dead after one shazter… you need about 5-10 shaatter to kill a good phatsm mesmer like me and my phatasms do 4-6 k damage every 3 sec EACH one your dead befpre i get under 50% … you theorycrafting … seems like you dont play the game… or maybe you just new to the game <r30/40

oh and about shatsm… is even worse.. he cant win a 1vs1 vs a shatter not a phatsm … he is just a theory fun build

Hey Dexxer, what build is giving you these numbers?

Phantasm does surprisingly well against shatter. Not because the phantasms are all that great themselves. It’s more the regen + prot that makes you boss in 1v1. With all the avoidance mesmers have that regen + prot can really stretch out your lifespan.

If you are good at reading animations and can reliably dodge their first couple phantasms you will do pretty well though kittenter.

Explaining a bit why phatsm win every 1vs1
iam r43. our guild focus on individual 1vs1 and 2vs2 zrain to compeze inthe upper competitive tpvp scene.
Phatsm give you nearly 100% uptime tegen and prot buff. 33% damage reduction.

As secend most important tool you have your utility phatsm.
If your vs power builds your phatsm the deffender give you +50% damage reduction.
If vs condi.. you tke the condi/boon temoval phatsm. what makes you pretty much immun to condi in a1vs1.
3. tool your 2. blade skill is used deffensive. you block every 10 sec. for 2 sec. ANY spike like the shatter is nullified by a good phatsm player.. tested… its just OP.

4. Reason. Your sword 5. phazsm do a leap attak (they get chaos armor) and do in most cases 5+k damage to glass canons like shatter mesm.
As a good phatsm mesmer i summon my phazsms on different posions on the point. they ate NEVER killed by one aoe/ attak. with qaos armor and reg + prot + 70% MORE HP trait and utility. my phatsm nearly never die. most of the time i even shatter my phatsm for more damage. and sommon 3 new one in 5 sec. again

like i said it was tested againsz some of the best players in real paid torn. and worked very well.

Post made on my smartphone sry.

Well in this I give you true, a setup situation like structured where you like 2 fighters in a martial art fight, you have a area to cover and the enemy will fight you with the set rules. It for long especialy before the Phantasm change patch was by alot of ppl seen as “The king of duel spec”I also got y kitten handeled by the idefender, survival regeneratio phantasm spec in structured dueles by my guildmates.

Same time if you run into the named setup in wvwvw roaming you not at al in the kitten as a shatter mesmer. There is alot more ways to use the terrain, if the fight drag out one side might get into a 1 vs x situation and the phantasm spec dont have the on demnand burst. The wvwvw romaing 1 vs 1 is more of a streetfigt than a martial art arena. One of the fighter might any sec drag out a stiletto ond stab the other, and he stand there qq that the other dont play fair or by the rules.

Alot of the “best” pvp setups who win battles in tPvP are less effective or dominating in wvwvw even n 1 vs 1 situations.

This s why I usualy let others comment the structured part as my area of expertice is in wvwvw. Say bunker elementalists for example, alot of ppl have problems by them in TPvP cause they can be a problem in a 5 vs 5 with a treb. But when is last time one totaly turned a battle in wvwvw.

Then we can ofc talk alot about esport, and what is rea pvp, wvwvw or tPvP, personaly I like the fights alot more with a 10 man team roaming arpund finding a way to take down a large forece of players defending a hill than chase around to stand in a ring and gert 500 p before other team get 500p but some ppl like fotball aswell and the citicens of Rom liked gladiator games so taste is different for different ppl.

/Osicat

@Osicat

ofc its about tpvp. the game is balanced more for tpvp.
Wvwvw is something casual based. ot has its place. but you hace a complete different view on things there. iqm npt even sure if you can even compare anything in wvwvw with competitive tpvp…
Its.. different games we playing like anet said.

Dexxer.3174:

@Osicat

ofc its about tpvp. the game is balanced more for tpvp.
Wvwvw is something casual based. ot has its place. but you hace a complete different view on things there. iqm npt even sure if you can even compare anything in wvwvw with competitive tpvp…
Its.. different games we playing like anet said.

the game isnt balanced around tpvp, s/tpvp have different gear sets and skill descriptions.

a glass cannon burst build in wvw do aLOT more damage than a similar glass cannon in spvp.

wads.5730:

Dexxer.3174:

@Osicat

ofc its about tpvp. the game is balanced more for tpvp.
Wvwvw is something casual based. ot has its place. but you hace a complete different view on things there. iqm npt even sure if you can even compare anything in wvwvw with competitive tpvp…
Its.. different games we playing like anet said.

the game isnt balanced around tpvp, s/tpvp have different gear sets and skill descriptions.

a glass cannon burst build in wvw do aLOT more damage than a similar glass cannon in spvp.

What are you talking about? Skills are exactly the same in both, and all they do is give you a different template to use for PvE/WvWvW and PvP.

Sure they give you end game content as far aas stats for weapons, gear and upgrades in PvP but that doesnt mean you cant match it…

Dexxer.3174:

@Osicat
Wvwvw is something casual based. ot has its place. but you hace a complete different view on things there. iqm npt even sure if you can even compare anything in wvwvw with competitive tpvp…
Its.. different games we playing like anet said.

Yeah its almost different games we play, and its alot more casuals in wvwvw than tPvP I give you that but there is also some guids that play far from casual. Withs et raid times, and adanced strategy,s. You notice the difference when you like me roam in a smal guild who take this kinda serious, when you run into another team who do the wvwvw a bit more serious, the battle can be epic.

Still ofc most team you run into in wvwvw is not using roles and strategys etc, but there is severals of the mid/smal guids who do.

Sorry for drifting of subject, feels like we talk about the same thing thu but thru different lenses. In your binoculars its green apple, in my its a yellow orange, its still a pear but thats not what matters

/Osicat

Sry dont get me wrong … wvwvw is great and all … it has its place
but its not suitable to discuss 1vs1 specs with mist pvp gear

Psych.6527:

wads.5730:

Dexxer.3174:

@Osicat

ofc its about tpvp. the game is balanced more for tpvp.
Wvwvw is something casual based. ot has its place. but you hace a complete different view on things there. iqm npt even sure if you can even compare anything in wvwvw with competitive tpvp…
Its.. different games we playing like anet said.

the game isnt balanced around tpvp, s/tpvp have different gear sets and skill descriptions.

a glass cannon burst build in wvw do aLOT more damage than a similar glass cannon in spvp.

What are you talking about? Skills are exactly the same in both, and all they do is give you a different template to use for PvE/WvWvW and PvP.

Sure they give you end game content as far aas stats for weapons, gear and upgrades in PvP but that doesnt mean you cant match it…

many different skills have different numbers for balance related reasons, i suggest you go look up past patch notes.

and gear distributions for exotic 80 gear in pve/wvw is different from that you can get from mists vendors. for instance berserker gear in wvw gives you more crit chance and roughly 40% more crit damage than berserker gear in mists, in exchange you get some vitality for the lost damage.

in general glass cannon builds in wvw hit much harder than the same glass cannon build in mists, no you can’t match it, it’s not possible.

Phantasm wins. You know why?
Cause you only need ONE dodge to nullify a whole shatter burst.
How many dodge do you need to evade each and every phantasm attack?
And kitten if you tell me you can dodge the summon, you have never pvped.
YOU CANT DODGE A PHANTASM SUMMON. NOR BLOCK IT.
And don’t try and kill them, they have waaaaaay to much health with trait+signet.

Personally, I find outrageous that such a simpleton spec (Spam phantasms, hide, spam gs #1) can be in any way better than a spec using the mechanic mesmer was created for (aka shatter skills).
It’s so passive it becomes boring. I’d be just disgusted to play a spec where the AI does more than I do.

Fortunatly shatter mesmer is way more useful in a team, huge aoe dmg and boon removal ftw.

Prelude.3817:

And kitten if you tell me you can dodge the summon, you have never pvped.
YOU CANT DODGE A PHANTASM SUMMON. NOR BLOCK IT.

are you serious? dodging the summon itself is often easier than dodging its attacks.

especially if you play a mesmer, and know the timings of when other mesmers usually summon phantasms.

Well, go to the mist with a friend. Join an empty server. Ask your friend to spam dodges and try a phantasm.
MIRACLE! IT SPAWNS!

Second test: get into a hot join server with your guardian/warrior friend. Try a phantasm on Aegis, Shield Stance or whatever block ability.
MIRACLE! IT SPAWNS! AGAIN!

Once again, dodge and block don’t nullify a phantasm skill. Anet never stated it would in those patch notes, and it never did. Which is a pity imo.

Only an invulnerable state (like Elixir S, Mist Form, Renewed Focus…), blind or los.

Illusionary Duelist, Phantasmal Swordsman, Phantasmal Mage, Phantasmal Defender, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Phantasmal Rogue, Phantasmal Warlock, Illusionary Mariner, Illusionary Whaler, Phantasmal Berserker, and Phantasmal Warden: These skills must now be cast in line-of-sight of the target. These skills now behave as normal attacks that the mesmer must connect in order to summon the phantasm, and they will fail if the mesmer is blind or the ability is cast on an invulnerable target.

As of now with how phantasms work I would say Shatter trumps Phantasm. The delay gives a shatter build (assuming they use a sword/pistol) enough time to pop flurry and evade the damage from the initial phantasm attack then simply destroy it with a “self” shatter. The amount of pressure a good shatter mesmer can put on a phantasm mesmer will simply make the phantasms a non issue. Now if/when the phantasm delay gets fixed THEN we will have a legit discussion on the topic.