Guild Wars 2

Hi guys,

First of all, I trust that most folks here are already familiar with the clone-spam condition type of build, made popular by Natsu’s Blackwater PU build months ago and also my recent favorite Osicat’s Napalm Cat.

However, for those who crave for something different, a non-PU flavor and would enjoy a more offensive/ less defensive approach to clone-spam condi build, I implore you to discuss my take on shattering, or in particular, the new gm trait Bountiful Disillusionment (BD) in a such a build.

A classic clone-spam build uses scepter and staff with a preferred OH weapon. While this is the optimized weapon set, it does come with a drawback: clones occasionally too far away from foes when they “blow up”, thus wasting all the condition damage. Some addressed this issue by switching to sword MH so clones always hug enemies, however, this means giving up a huge potential condition output that scepter skills provide.

As you know, clone-spam builds prove to be most effective at melee and mid-range. Against skilled long ranged foes, not only you want to get close to them, but you might also want the clones to get close and blow up on their faces as well. And this is where shattering, or pseudo-shattering (as I’d like to call it, or more simply Fake Shattering) comes in handy.

Pseudo-shattering is the act of using shatter to command your illusions to go to target but hoping they will die (thus blow up in clone-spam builds) near target before they can actually shatter. It sounds funny on paper, and true, sometimes its a gamble, but sometimes, u look at the situation and u know full well they’re not gonna make it with all those AoE/Cleave flying around.

So what does all of this have anything to do with BD gm trait in Chaos?
Well, the way BD works is that as long u can activate the shatter, you gain the boons instantly, so basically with DE, dodge 1 clone and F2 Shatter (Cry of Frustration -CoF), and u get 3 might stacks for ~20s on a 30s CD, regardless what happens to the clone.

Its even better pairing up with Illusionary Persona (IP), just press the button but we’re not talking about shatter- builds here so that’s not the case.

As you can see, by design, BD is the total opposite of PU where u gain offensive boons with the prerequisite being shattering (PU gives defensive boons requiring u to enter stealth).
For condition builds, F1 shatter with Retaliation is not very significant, F3 and F4 shatters are situational, so that leaves only F2 shatter CoF on our discussion table.

Let me just say from experience that: by traiting for BD in a clone-spam condi build, CoF becomes very interesting: it’s spammable and should be used whenever its off cooldown, and when u use it as pseudo-shattering 1 or more clones, you put a huge pressure on your opponent. For example: lets suppose you CoF 1 clone

- Best scenario: the clone dies near target before it can shatter —> you get 3 stacks of might, target gets Cripple, Confusion, and Bleeding.
- Worst scenario: the clone dies far target or target dodges the shatter --> you get 3 stacks of might.

So always you get the minimum benefit of 3 stacks of might (in this case, CoF is like a selfish weaker version of warrior’s For Great Justice) and most likely force your opponent to use a defensive maneuver (like dodging).

I’ve been tinkering with this idea of incorporating BD in clone-spam condi build and I come up with my version that capitalizes on might stacking.
Heres the link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraGl0ntMNOqhbtRWNIT3iT0zTtkSfhsFAA-TFiIABBp8AgTBAgq/km+gx2fQIlY8+EAYSJoAgaA-w

The build can maintain 100% uptime of at least 10 stacks of might, which means even F1 shatter can hurt.

Anyway, what do you guys think? Discuss and also please be constructive.

This build feels quite odd. You focus on clone deaths, yet depend on shatters and also interrups for boons.
It feels like a mess but could potenially be a good build if you learn how to utalize all aspects of this build.

I’m a bit partial to this trait being used in power builds, but if this is working for you then great.

So do you use omnomberry creams with this or rare veggie pizza?

Looking at the boons granted it feels like BD would be better for a power build:

F1 → Retaliation which scales on power
F2 → Might which is that’s nice for both
F3 → Fury which is much nicer for a power build
F4 → Regen is good for both

If BD had been in dueling then perhaps it would have been viable. A build might be power shatter with 2/6/0/4/0/6. Anet doesn’t seem to want to promote power shatter which I suppose is why BD is not in dueling.

Neurophen.9738:

Looking at the boons granted it feels like BD would be better for a power build:

F1 -> Retaliation which scales on power
F2 -> Might which is that’s nice for both
F3 -> Fury which is much nicer for a power build
F4 -> Regen is good for both

If BD had been in dueling then perhaps it would have been viable. A build might be power shatter with 2/6/0/4/0/6. Anet doesn’t seem to want to promote power shatter which I suppose is why BD is not in dueling.

Well it’s mostly that they don’t want power shatter to generate too many boons without giving up damage for it. There was already a large outcry when they buffed shattered strength and we could keep around 20 stacks of might on us always. Power shatter only needs a couple tweaks to make it a very dominant build so Anet is careful with trait placement because of that.

I really love this trait, as I love shatter, but it’s tricky to find a good build one is satisfied with. If only one could go 0/4/6/0/6…

Well, here’s the problem. Whenever you take one trait, you sacrifice another. In this case, you sacrifice PU for BD.

Now, what are you getting out of BD? As you said yourself, the only useful thing you get is 3 stacks of might. You mention that you can keep 10 might permanently…but you could keep 7 without BD, so that’s really not much of a boost.

You sacrifice PU. PU gives regeneration, protection, and aegis every time you stealth. These boons are significantly stronger than just 3 stacks of might. You also potentially sacrifice CI. CI gives immobilize on interrupt, and in this build you have several quite strong interrupts.

The theory of shattering with the intent for the clones to die is a little iffy too. I understand what you’re getting at, but the problem is that it’s not always going to work. It’s an inherently unreliable mechanic, and you’ll often just end up wasting clones on a cry shatter.

Hi all, thanks for your feedback. Clearly things didn’t work out as much as I hoped but nevertheless I still enjoyed exploring build options for our class.

Honestly, this is why (in a recent “Mesmer improvement” thread) one of my concepts was that we really need to even out the class’ GM Traits. As much as I don’t dislike (and occasionally use) PU, with cases like this … it’s arguably holding Mesmers back.

It’s well and dandy that ANet sees themselves as “forcing a choice,” but when Choice “X”(PU) is this superior to Choices “Y”(CI) and “Z”(BD), guess which most folk are going to pick?

(OTOH, I could see something like this being rather interesting in a ZvZ. Hell, you’re mainly going to proc BD/clonedeath, with how fast illusions get melted.)

Raunchy.6891:

Neurophen.9738:

Looking at the boons granted it feels like BD would be better for a power build:

F1 -> Retaliation which scales on power
F2 -> Might which is that’s nice for both
F3 -> Fury which is much nicer for a power build
F4 -> Regen is good for both

If BD had been in dueling then perhaps it would have been viable. A build might be power shatter with 2/6/0/4/0/6. Anet doesn’t seem to want to promote power shatter which I suppose is why BD is not in dueling.

Well it’s mostly that they don’t want power shatter to generate too many boons without giving up damage for it. There was already a large outcry when they buffed shattered strength and we could keep around 20 stacks of might on us always. Power shatter only needs a couple tweaks to make it a very dominant build so Anet is careful with trait placement because of that.

Never forget, Raunchy.
A LOT of that outcry you speak of was from other Mesmers. And folk wonder why I’m convinced that certain of the Purple Association have a case of Stockholm Syndrome. I always figured; if 3/clone was too high, go sliding-scale for a bit, see how 2/per would have worked out.
Hell, the same argument can be made for the recent kerfluffle with Power Block. Yet again, a lot of the “holy crap!” mindset seems to have come from our side. Meanwhile, it was at least a punishment for spammy combat behavior. (Although, yes, AA’s should be off the list.)