Guild Wars 2

https://youtu.be/vvpSVqvJLlo?t=853

So I never read anything about anyone crying about there not being a phantasm on the shield. What I do remember coming up was the fact that the summon is (at least partially) contingent on the block effect. In otherwords the glaring problem in the shield phantasm right now is that we can’t guarantee what target we generate it against in any scenario where we’re being targeted by multiple opponents.

Two main reasons this is a problem. First is attack priority, i.e. iCaptain will throw his slow at the unintended focus of the mesmer should the block land on another attacking player, and two: if the other attacking player is something like an enemy illusion or phantasm the iCaptain will be removed the the battlefield the moment that particularly squishy target died (or is shattered etc). Thus we’ll lose the bounces to boot.

Fix the weakness in the design. An easy solution should be that the phantasm summons on the execution of the block (but is not tied to it) vs the mesmers target.

If the mechanics are the same as scepter 2 and OH sword 4, we’ll also face the additional problem of being hit post block during summon (which ok, is some counterplay) but the true problem here is that we have to eat damage while waiting for the phant to summon, which often means a dodge. In otherwords, if the mechanics are the same for block/summon we face the problem of canceling our own summon due to dodge.

As a related issue, this would be the first phantasm we couldn’t cover the casting of with stealth, unless we get randomly hit while blocking in stealth. We also can’t cover the summon from beneath distortion on block as we can’t proc blocks under distortion.

The priority of the summon on skill activation needs a serious look at. It just doesnt fit in well with already established mesmer mechanics surrounding phantasm summons.

Note: In case anyone reads and missed it, I’m aware the phant will summon at the end of the block channel.

Agreed, the last thing we need is another buggy & unreliable off-block summon. In fact, the 2 shield skills both look incredibly underwhelming and situational. The #5 is quite possibly OPd in larger group fights, and weak/unreliable in smaller ones or 1v1.

The Phantasms attack is yet another bouncing attack! sighs BAD! WE HATE BOUNCES! GET IT!? They kitten unless the projectile is super fast, which probably it won’t be and thus you have a really unreliable Phantasm on a long CD.

Also, it inflicts Slow. Big whoop, as any MtD Shatterer can tell you, this will get condie cleared before it has any actual effect on the outcome of the battle. Worse in group battles it won’t survive long, and in 1v1s it will also get cleared. It would at best be useful as a cover condition, but I doubt anyone playing a Condie build will use the Shield.

Especially if it’s based on the same relatively broken mechanic for it’s #4 skill.

Can’t we just get a block like every other block in the game? Why do ours only block 1 attack?

Make it a ~2s channeled block that causes 1s of Weakness on every blocked attack.

Is that so hard? It’s reliable, not dependent on the stars aligning just right, and it maintains Chronomancer qualities of slowing enemies down. Then put the silly Phantasm on the Wave-thingie, make it summon as the wave summons or something.

The Phantasm also gives alacrity and #5 gives quickness. #5 has good possible synergy with the new Dueling trait Mistrust that gives AoE confusion on interrupts.

I haven’t seen the shield phantasm and his alacrity/slow effect in the video. Perhaps, it was unfinished. Another thing is that our élite still don’t have a category. At least in the tooltip. Although it’s supposed to be a Well due to it’s name.

I only hope that the unknown traits allow us to get enough profit from this specialization without the use of a shield. But, for that, I hope that the shield’s traits will be majors as usual (weapon’s traits), and not some minor as I readed in some post.

I thought that the Phantasm was already summoned against your current target regardless of whose attack you just blocked.

The tooltip suggests that the Phantasm will be summoned against the attacker who procs the block. If the block times out before proccing, then it will be summoned against your current target.

There should probably be a chain skill available while channeling the block that cancels the block and summons the Phantasm against your current target instead. Kind of like how Scepter 2/Sword 4 can be canceled. Otherwise, Shield Chronos will take way too long to summon Phantasms without diving in front of attacks.

^ Absolutely. I just don’t get what they were thinking with Shield. I mean we already feel kinda jacked for getting an OH, and quite frankly this is anything but a stellar OH at that. These 2 abilities are situational, unreliable, and clunky. Both of them!

It pretty much cements the fears that our shield will be just as bad as most others in the game. They might as well have not bothered if all they were gonna do is make yet another bad shield. A shield is for defense and most of all blocking! This is by far the most disappointing aspect of the patch. I was very open minded to the idea of a shield, but unless there are some *AAA*mazing traits for it, it looks like largely crap to me.

The Phantasm summon looks downright tacked on as an afterthought, just because you have to have a Phantasm there somewhere, and to add insult to injury they equip it with the worst attack-form in the game. (AGAIN!) This thing will be racing the iMage for the bottom spot position…and probably winning! It’s clunky, unreliable, and underwhelming as a Phantasm from both a damage and utility PoV.

That whole wording of it gives me hives! If you block you get Deja Vue, which I guess has to be activated AGAIN so you can block again and summon a Phantasm??? Or you can just wait half an eternity and just summon a crappy Phantasm on your target! WOOHOO! Seriously bad…

Why not just have it summon a Phantasm, and block ALL attacks while summoning ? (At least that would make those god awful Phantasm summon times useful for once!) Much easier, much more powerful, much more like a shield is expected to work!

Windwalker.7421:

Why not just have it summon a Phantasm, and block ALL attacks while summoning ? (At least that would make those god awful Phantasm summon times useful for once!) Much easier, much more powerful, much more like a shield is expected to work!

TBH, I think the “Deja Vu” mechanic is actually kind of cool… But, nonetheless, I think your suggestion would make for a much more usable skill.

I LOVE the shield, but I hope the phantasm is fixed to summon onto our target properly. I think they should changed our other block-summons to come into line with that.

They said, actually said, that it summons to your current target. Idk what the skill tip says (not that any skill tip should be trusted) but they literally said in the video that it summons at your “current” target.

tobascodagama.2961:

TBH, I think the “Deja Vu” mechanic is actually kind of cool… But, nonetheless, I think your suggestion would make for a much more usable skill.

OK maybe I don’t understand it fully. The wording is just so awkward. So I press #4 to start a blocking channel, which upon blocking 1 attack will end and make the Deja Vu skill available. Then I have to activate that again, once again channeling a block and I have to block yet another attack, and only then will I summon the Phantasm? (Or if either channel duration runs out, making it the slowest casting Phantasm we have…and by far not the best!)

Many of the most damaging abilities in this game are multi-attacks in a short duration. If I have to activate that block manually twice, I’m going to usually eat 75% of the damage of most of these attacks or more. Factoring in latency, you will often not even be able to activate Deja Vu fast enough to block two of the attacks (RF for example).

This same phenomenon is already bad enough with our Scepter and OH Sword blocks, that due to lag you end up eating more damage then you’re avoiding with the paltry 1-attack block. This exacerbates the issue by forcing you to manually activate it twice to get 2 blocks, and as Ross said will result in frequent summoning failures due to the need to dodge to avoid massive damage.

Why on earth do I even need to consider having to use a dodge during what is supposed to be a defensive ability on a long CD?

I went back to the video and right here is when he mentioned is:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vvpSVqvJLlo#t=848

He does say:

• When you block an attack with this it will summon a phantasm on the enemy you blocked.
• It will summon a phantasm on any enemy you have targeted when it ends.

So, back to the OP … you were right and I agree. In my opinion, the logic for the phantasm target should be:

• If the mesmer has a target, the phantasm is summoned on the Mesmer’s target
• If the mesmer does not have a target, the phantasm is summoned on whomever the Mesmer blocked.
• If the mesmer does not have a target and did not block anyone … no phantasm summoned

I edited my previous message. I made a mistake, for some reason I did not realize that the shield’s phantasm bounces, so 900 range, I think.

Now, what I understand is that if you block, the phantasm is summoed at your current target and allow you to use Déja Vu, if you block again it summons another phantasm. Be aware that the complete rotation of both skills, with successful blocks, could overwrite two of your damage phantasms. Perhaps alacrity can help them to attack twice before die… but its damage is really low. Although it’s assumed that you should be compensated with the reduced recharge rate of the skills.

Zoser.7245:

I edited my previous message. I made a mistake, for some reason I did not realize that the shield’s phantasm bounces, so 900 range, I think.

Now, what I understand is that if you block, the phantasm is summoed at your current target and allow you to use Déja Vu, if you block again it summons another phantasm. Be aware that the complete rotation of both skills, with successful blocks, could overwrite two of your damage phantasms. Perhaps alacrity can help them to attack twice before die… but its damage is really low. Although it’s assumed that you should be compensated with the reduced recharge rate of the skills.

You get two blocks but you don’t get two phantasms. The phant summons on the cuff of either the first block, or at the end of the first blocks channel if the block isnt triggered.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Zoser.7245:

I edited my previous message. I made a mistake, for some reason I did not realize that the shield’s phantasm bounces, so 900 range, I think.

Now, what I understand is that if you block, the phantasm is summoed at your current target and allow you to use Déja Vu, if you block again it summons another phantasm. Be aware that the complete rotation of both skills, with successful blocks, could overwrite two of your damage phantasms. Perhaps alacrity can help them to attack twice before die… but its damage is really low. Although it’s assumed that you should be compensated with the reduced recharge rate of the skills.

You get two blocks but you don’t get two phantasms. The phant summons on the cuff of either the first block, or at the end of the first blocks channel if the block isnt triggered.

It sounds to me like you do get 2 phantasms. Deja vu is the exact same skill, you just don’t get to use it a third time if you land the block.

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Zoser.7245:

I edited my previous message. I made a mistake, for some reason I did not realize that the shield’s phantasm bounces, so 900 range, I think.

Now, what I understand is that if you block, the phantasm is summoed at your current target and allow you to use Déja Vu, if you block again it summons another phantasm. Be aware that the complete rotation of both skills, with successful blocks, could overwrite two of your damage phantasms. Perhaps alacrity can help them to attack twice before die… but its damage is really low. Although it’s assumed that you should be compensated with the reduced recharge rate of the skills.

You get two blocks but you don’t get two phantasms. The phant summons on the cuff of either the first block, or at the end of the first blocks channel if the block isnt triggered.

It sounds to me like you do get 2 phantasms. Deja vu is the exact same skill, you just don’t get to use it a third time if you land the block.

Ok, weird. Though the name and skill icon itself are different, Echo of Time – Deja Vu indicating difference. Dev to confirm.

They really ought to take some sort of communication course before being allowed out in public. Just saying.

Edit: Doh correction, I guess you’re right. It really doesn’t ever mention summoning on block, does it? Maybe the devs in the video got it wrong, or this does in fact summon 2 Phants…but I doubt that. ;-)

If it is the same on-block summon as our others, then I seriously just hate this sort of ridiculous fail-prone way of implementing something. It doesn’t have much to do with the Mesmers skill at all, but rather the skill of his opponents. It will be just like the other 2 fail blocks that people often avoid once they see us ducking, and then you’re stuck on a long channel time to summon a rather underwhelming Phantasm.

The other end is, if you’re eating a massive multi-damage attack then you’re forced to dodge, probably canceling the Phantasm and ability goes on full CD.

It’s just crap either way.

Just a plain Block (everything) while performing a plain 1.0s to 1.5s Phantasm summon, and leave the silly wave as is I guess.

My guess is the wave will seem OPd in the beginning and will probably get knee-jerk nerfed before people figure out it’s easy to avoid and thus a fairly lame ability on a long CD. It will have it’s uses in Zerg combat, but it’ll probably travel slow enough to give people ample of time to avoid it somehow. (Move away, dodge, block, etc.)

We’ll have to see how long the Chill/Alacrity applied by the Phantasm is … as well as the damage the Phantasm applies.

If I can upkeep 100% chill up-time on a target with 2 of these phantasms, that’s going to be pretty darn nice … especially since that means 1 is 50+%. Chill is a rather powerful condition … less so against Thieves though … because they’re Thieves (see initiative).

The Phantasm is always summoned, only it always summons when the block runs out, either way.

Sebrent.3625:

We’ll have to see how long the Chill/Alacrity applied by the Phantasm is … as well as the damage the Phantasm applies.

If I can upkeep 100% chill up-time on a target with 2 of these phantasms, that’s going to be pretty darn nice … especially since that means 1 is 50+%. Chill is a rather powerful condition … less so against Thieves though … because they’re Thieves (see initiative).

Chill? You mean Slow, right? This will actually be pretty nice against Thieves, because it slows down that HS spam. (Which is actually one of the somewhat slower attacks of the Thief already, so instead of .75s per HS, it will take 1.125s per HS which not only lowers the DPS a bit, but gives you a much better chance to react to it and/or interrupt it.

I think Thieves will hate Slow a lot, because they don’t have innate counters to it (so far). Of course they may end up getting Resistance and laugh at any Condi we throw at them…that would be “par for the course” as far as Anet’s vision of Thief vs. Mesmer balance goes.

The problem, as usual, will be in actually getting that KITTENY bouncing attack to actually hit a Thief who has a clue.

Chill or Slow … I’m happy with either. Slow down their attacks or slow down their cooldowns … attacks does affect Thieves more though … tired of them being immune to our crap due to their initiative system … wish Anet would come up with some way for initiative to be affected …

True. Chill is not equal to Slow:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slow

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilled

Ok, We know that one phantasm will be summoned but not when. It depends on whether or not we block, whether or not we use Déja Vu… Well, at least it’s not the random chaos : ))

We will see who get resistance and who can share it easily.

If you watch the video again, starting at 37:30, you can see that he uses the block skill twice in a row against the rapid-fire monster. Now, you can see that no new phantasms are produced, BUT you can also see the word “Obstructed” appear twice, suggesting that the skill activated twice but for some reason LoS prevented the phantasms from appearing

Link to it at 37:39 right when he’s going to click the ability twice (your link didn’t include the specific time).

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vvpSVqvJLlo#t=2259

Agreed, it seemed to say you can get 2 Phants up. This changes my opinion on it quite a bit, due to the mentioned synergy between having 2 of these up, bouncing Alacrity between them (and you) and thus could be pretty buff. Of course they’ll have to live long enough to do that. Also neat of course would be Chronophants allowing you to re-summon them after shatter, and getting another attack cycle in quickly.

Still not in love with Shield #4, but I may be underestimating it. The ToT Wave does indeed look fairly slow and thus easily avoidable…not liking that considering the CD.

Honestly, I’m most interested in having both these traits:

• Gain 1 clone on-shatter
• Phantasms get an “extra life” for shattering

As that means each “setup” nets me two 3-illusion shatters … on top of the extra phantasm volley … which is nice … and it doesn’t require DE to do because each Mesmer weapon set has at least 1 clone generator and 1 phantasm generator so you could do this via:

• Weapon Set 1: Phantasm
• Weapon Set 1: Clone
• Weapon Set 2: Phantasm
• 3 Illusion Shatter
• 3 Illusion Shatter

At the end of that, you’ll have 1 clone from the shatter and Weapon Set 2’s clone generator hasn’t been used yet.

So that will be two 3 illusion shatters followed immediately by having 2 clones out and ready. Could be very nice.

Now … someone could just come and “oops” all over our illusions though without a care in the world as they kill them as an accidental side-effect of whatever they are doing <_<