Guild Wars 2

I mostly do PvE with phantasms, not in organised groups with banners and boon stacking and so on. I currently have assassin’s armour with with traveller runes, precision trinkets with opals, and sigils of Force/Accuracywhich gives a 78% crit chance on my character.

As I understand it, my phantasms inherit my basic stats (power, precision etc) and derive their own crit chance. So a Sigil of Accuracy (crit chance) does not benefit them, but a sigil of perception (stacking precision) would. I’ve been wondering about switching to this.

The exploit with stacking precision and then swapping a weapon from inventory does not seem to work anymore, whatever your underwater weapon is. [I bought two major sigils and tested it this morning with some weapons from drops.] So if I do this, it’s for real — I commit to the stacking sigil, put it on everything, keep it on underwater weapons for when I go underwater, and of course it precludes stacking e.g. bloodlust.

I’m not sure how precision translates to crit chance. So I wonder if anybody could tell me…

1) Am I correct that +precision helps my phantasms and +crit doesn’t?
2) How much crit chance would +250 precision be worth, if I have 70% with no sigil?

i heard there is no point to go above 65-68% (seen somewhere) go for sigil of battle/air which is much better lol

Morte.5916:

I mostly do PvE with phantasms, not in organised groups with banners and boon stacking and so on. I currently have assassin’s armour with with traveller runes, precision trinkets with opals, and sigils of Force/Accuracywhich gives a 78% crit chance on my character.

As I understand it, my phantasms inherit my basic stats (power, precision etc) and derive their own crit chance. So a Sigil of Accuracy (crit chance) does not benefit them, but a sigil of perception (stacking precision) would. I’ve been wondering about switching to this.

The exploit with stacking precision and then swapping a weapon from inventory does not seem to work anymore, whatever your underwater weapon is. [I bought two major sigils and tested it this morning with some weapons from drops.] So if I do this, it’s for real — I commit to the stacking sigil, put it on everything, keep it on underwater weapons for when I go underwater, and of course it precludes stacking e.g. bloodlust.

I’m not sure how precision translates to crit chance. So I wonder if anybody could tell me…

1) Am I correct that +precision helps my phantasms and +crit doesn’t?
2) How much crit chance would +250 precision be worth, if I have 70% with no sigil?

You’re correct on #1. Critical chance modifiers do not transfer to your phantasms.
On #2, 250 precision will get you in the neighborhood of 10-12% critical chance.
As Odik mentioned, it’s usually a good idea to not go above 65% due to your other party members providing fury (20%), if you have a warrior – banner of discipline (8%), and if you have a ranger, spotter (7%). Obviously your personal fury does not transfer to phantasms, but that’s why you must take the phantasmal fury trait if possible. Banner of discipline and spotter buffs transfer to phantasms since they modify precision directly.

More good information can be found in the mesmer dungeon thread, specifically this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-How-To-Mesmer-in-Dungeons/first#post4022540

21 precision = 1% crit chance

so 250 precision = 11% crit chance

stacking is a waste of time anyway, so just run accuracy if you want extra precision.

maha.7902:

21 precision = 1% crit chance

so 250 precision = 11% crit chance

stacking is a waste of time anyway, so just run accuracy if you want extra precision.

I understand and agree with most situations not being really worthwhile to use stacking sigils but would mesmers be a special case since a good portion of the damage is not going to be affected by the Force/Night/Accuracy type sigils? In other words, if those % based sigils are only roughly half as effective on a mesmer as they are on other professions does that not swing the balance a bit to make bloodlust/perception more viable?

if you want to spend a year stacking, go ahead

it’s a QoL thing – you can either just use accuracy and leave it at that or grind out 25 stacks for 5 minutes in a dungeon that takes 10 minutes to complete

skcamow.3527:

Morte.5916:

I mostly do PvE with phantasms, not in organised groups with banners and boon stacking and so on. I currently have assassin’s armour with with traveller runes, precision trinkets with opals, and sigils of Force/Accuracywhich gives a 78% crit chance on my character.

As I understand it, my phantasms inherit my basic stats (power, precision etc) and derive their own crit chance. So a Sigil of Accuracy (crit chance) does not benefit them, but a sigil of perception (stacking precision) would. I’ve been wondering about switching to this.

The exploit with stacking precision and then swapping a weapon from inventory does not seem to work anymore, whatever your underwater weapon is. [I bought two major sigils and tested it this morning with some weapons from drops.] So if I do this, it’s for real — I commit to the stacking sigil, put it on everything, keep it on underwater weapons for when I go underwater, and of course it precludes stacking e.g. bloodlust.

I’m not sure how precision translates to crit chance. So I wonder if anybody could tell me…

1) Am I correct that +precision helps my phantasms and +crit doesn’t?
2) How much crit chance would +250 precision be worth, if I have 70% with no sigil?

You’re correct on #1. Critical chance modifiers do not transfer to your phantasms.
On #2, 250 precision will get you in the neighborhood of 10-12% critical chance.
As Odik mentioned, it’s usually a good idea to not go above 65% due to your other party members providing fury (20%), if you have a warrior – banner of discipline (8%), and if you have a ranger, spotter (7%). Obviously your personal fury does not transfer to phantasms, but that’s why you must take the phantasmal fury trait if possible. Banner of discipline and spotter buffs transfer to phantasms since they modify precision directly.

More good information can be found in the mesmer dungeon thread, specifically this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-How-To-Mesmer-in-Dungeons/first#post4022540

^ after this post in this topic shoudnt arrive more but its keep going lol

maha.7902:

if you want to spend a year stacking, go ahead

it’s a QoL thing – you can either just use accuracy and leave it at that or grind out 25 stacks for 5 minutes in a dungeon that takes 10 minutes to complete

I wouldn’t be going out of my way for it, but how many stacks does it take to have that become better? A few dungeons even have stacking built into the run, TA forward/COE come to mind.

If accuracy’s 7% is only half effective on a mesmer (not working on phantasms) then we’re looking at like 4.5% so 4.5*21 = 94.5 so 10 stacks and it’s roughly better?

But I guess you have a point as a lot of dungeons will be half over by the time I’m there.

Yeah most people just run accuracy sigils because of the minimal difference in damage output versus the effort involved in trying to manage perception sigils.

If you’re splitting hairs about accuracy vs perception, do yourself a favor and get ranger runes instead of Traveller. That’s going to make a much bigger difference in your damage.

Thanks everybody.

I replaced my Accuracy Sigil with Perception Sigil. Because of Arah ;-)

I replaced my Accuracy/Perception sigils with Force/Undead… bacause Arahs

And of course, time for some maths. You said no organized groups so the comparisons below will assume 0 might, 0 fury, 5 vuln (from your sword aa), and 0 banners. The build is 6/4/0/0/4, running assassins/scholars and 5%/10% sigils, with 2 charged mantras:

DPS split:

• 41/59 – Mes vs. 3 Swordsman
• 43/57 – Mes vs. 2 Swordsman & 1 Warden
• 53/47 – Mes vs. 1 Swordsman & 1 Warden
• 66/34 – Mes vs 1 Swordsman
• 72/28 – Mes vs. 1 Warden
• 99/01 – Mes vs 1 Clone

It’s rare than you have all 3 phantasms out so the general rule is if you have to make a choice then always go for something that benefits you.

What increases your dps more, accuracy or perception, will depend on your gear. With assassins you will hit 100% cit chance pretty fast (10 Perception stacks and you’re at cap already) so both accuracy and perception will be pretty much a waste, especially when you get the Spotter buff.

DPS for Force/Perception vs. Force/Accuracy in zerk/scholar gear:

• Perception > Accuracy at 7 stacks – 1 Mes, 2 Swordsman, 1 Warden
• Perception > Accuracy at 10 stacks – 1 Mes, 1 Swordsman
• Perception > Accuracy at 15 stacks – 1 Mes

DPS for Force/Perception vs. Force/Undead in zerk/scholar gear:

• Perception > Undead at 13 stacks – 1 Mes, 2 Swordsman, 1 Warden
• Perception > Undead at 20 stacks – 1 Mes, 1 Swordsman
• Perception > Undead at 30 stacks – 1 Mes

So, without phantasms Undead sigils are always better (impossible to get 30 perception stakcs) and under ideal conditions (3 phantasms out) it takes about 13 to 18 stacks before Perception comes out superior than a flat 10% dmg modifier for the mesmer.

I won’t bother comparing the Feedback dmg because Assassins/Rangers gear is almost always better and with that gear both Accuracy and Perception sigils end up pushing you past 100% crit with fury/banners. The only times other gear might come out better you literally will be splitting hairs with like less than 2% improvement in ideal conditions.

So, in conclusion, perception is nice and is better than Accuracy as long as you can get 15-20 stacks and keep them for the majority of the encounter. It’s actually not too bad if you can get the stacks on your sword/focus and then actually do most of the encounters with swords/sword that have 5%/10% sigils equipped (swap back to sw/focus for the kill to get more stacks if not at 25). Now, once you hit the meta groups (buffs/banners) then precision stacking loses it’s advantage and it’s usually not worth the effort, in which case just get as many passive damage modifiers as you can and call it a day.

frifox.5283:

You said no organized groups so the comparisons below will assume 0 might, 0 fury, 5 vuln (from your sword aa), and 0 banners.

Thank you.

Well, you basically just said what I’m currently running with.

Undead Sword/ Force Sword and Perception Focus. When I’m running with pug, I rely on my FB to skip phase 2 and make my Lupi fight less painful. By the time I get to Lupi, I would always have 10-15 stacks anyways. For a slightly more experienced group, I prefer sigil of battle on my focus. Because a perfect group which pumps up 25 stacks of might throughout the whole fight is very rare, far and in between. I’d rather let people run what they enjoy then ask for a specific optimized team comp. Boring.

NO FUN ALLOWED 4 ELES 1 GUARDIAN OR KICK

I’ve found when you are already that high in crit chance you actually get a lot more from power… I suggest doing Bloodlust instead(and put it on your ‘weak’ weaponset like Staff). And if your doing a Phantasm build instead of force I’d go with one of the good on crit sigils(otherwise you aren’t getting as much from doing those crits)

If you consider full ascended assassins with scholars, both 5% and 10% sigils, and all offensive party buffs, 25 stacks of bloodlust will be 0.94% LESS dps with 3 phantasms and 0.17% LESS dps with 1 phantasms out than 25 stacks of perception. Reflects damage, as expected, will drop by massive 12% once you replace perception with bloodlust.

Good number crunching frifox, I stand potientially corrected. Is that with iSwordsman I’m guessing? Unfortunately I missed if they said what weapons/build they were using so I didn’t assume that or reflect(despite that I love running reflect builds and think they are better WvW utility then Veil/Null)