Guild Wars 2

For your information:

Mesmer

• Echo of Memory: Block duration reduced from 2.25 to 1.5

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Upcoming-Balance-Changes-Week-of-December-14-2015/

Also quite a few revenant nerfs. Overall good changes I think.

I’m glad they opted for a shave as opposed to a hammer though obviously precog is still very strong. We’ll ultimately see in January.

As an aside, I thought it interesting they didn’t mention Deja Vu along with Echo of Memory, but one can assume the nerf applies to that as well.

On the plus side it means you can get the iAvenger out faster.

At least it isn’t as bad as revenants. They’re on the fast track to 2 years of nerfs till they bleed and get wrekt by ambient chickens.

I’m okay with this. The original block duration was great when I needed it, but it’s more often than not that I’m just wanting to get the iAvenger out rather than needing the block.

Note: I mostly play PvE

A necessary change but given that the current Chronobunker doesn’t rely as much on Block as it could (thanks to all the Unblockable attacks and especially CCs, which aren’t addressed in this mini-patch) it probably won’t make a huge difference.

It’s a meh change but as long as they hammer Revenants, I’m a happy man

1. Pyro was wrong. My whole world is shattered.

2. If Embolism is right, it may not be huge for pvp, but it’s definitely a hit on chronos tanking in pve. Oy.

Nerf? This is a buff for some builds. Slightly shorter block means faster phantasms.

Perfect change. Nerf in pvp against the strong bunker mesmer, a buff in pve for faster mob spawn, only a small nerf for survivablity there tough. Love it.

This is a good change considering, but I’m not going to be surprised when people foaming at the mouth go ballistic about how it wasn’t enough, etc.

It’s like a drop of blood in the water; brings out all the piranhas.

Yeah after adapting my necro builds and generally getting used to the status quo, I don’t view bunker mesmer as much of an issue as I had originally thought. We’ll have to see how it plays out, since I don’t want too many surviability nerfs to gut non-bunker builds.

The big question should be if chronomancer support is too strong in pvp, since even though they are/were the best pointholder the game hath seen, they also have some of the best support, which is making old support builds like guardian completely outclassed, even though guardians have better ally cleanse in comparison.

nearlight.3064:

Yeah after adapting my necro builds and generally getting used to the status quo, I don’t view bunker mesmer as much of an issue as I had originally thought. We’ll have to see how it plays out, since I don’t want too many surviability nerfs to gut non-bunker builds.

Necro is a good counter to chrono. Problem is that rev was too much of a counter to necro. Now, the nerf to rev resistance may even things out slightly and allow necros to come back and kill mesmers. Actually they may even kill revenants too. Condi necro and condi rev kinda counter each other, so this may tip the balance.

The big question should be if chronomancer support is too strong in pvp, since even though they are/were the best pointholder the game hath seen, they also have some of the best support, which is making old support builds like guardian completely outclassed, even though guardians have better ally cleanse in comparison.

I think some things are overstated. One of the best things bunker mesmer brought is very fast rez. But this only worked because cleaving was made impossible by revs. With proper cleaving now possible, mesmer rez may not work that well. For comparison, bunker guard used to have that with their elite shout, and this was AOE quickness!

Now I don’t say alacrity or precog are not powerful, but I think by nerfing revenants, mesmer may not look as strong anymore.

That’s it. Time to switch my main…wait, this isn’t the Ranger forum!

Delete PvP please.

Feels like a nice little buff to someone who wouldn’t touch sPvP if it were the only game mode in the game. Much faster to pop out the Phantasm, more alacrity!

Levetty.1279:

Delete PvP please.

I would rather have it but not have the whole game balanced around a 5v5 conquest mode.

Menaka.5092:

Levetty.1279:

Delete PvP please.

I would rather have it but not have the whole game balanced around a 5v5 conquest mode.

You do realize that if the shield block was OP for PvP, it was also OP for PvE? From what I understood, chrono was considered one of the best tank for raids… now that does sound familiar to someone playing PvP…

Here we go again, getting kittened up in pve because of pvp. They just never learn.
Is it a pride issue? Stubbornness?

Silverkey.2078:

Menaka.5092:

Levetty.1279:

Delete PvP please.

I would rather have it but not have the whole game balanced around a 5v5 conquest mode.

You do realize that if the shield block was OP for PvP, it was also OP for PvE? From what I understood, chrono was considered one of the best tank for raids… now that does sound familiar to someone playing PvP…

Being the best tank for raids doesn’t necessarily mean being the most survivable build, just having enough survivability to get the job done without giving up too much.

Chrono doesn’t have high personal sustained DPS, but it’s a beast at boosting ally damage. Since this mechanics are not related to offensive/defensive stats, your best bet is to use it in the tank role (whihc is also well suited for) so there’s room for another full offensive build in the raid group.

For PvE, the change on block duration is a buff if anything. As long as the player can time the blocks properly, it means less valueable time sitting down waiting for the phantasm to pop.

Silverkey.2078:

Menaka.5092:

Levetty.1279:

Delete PvP please.

I would rather have it but not have the whole game balanced around a 5v5 conquest mode.

You do realize that if the shield block was OP for PvP, it was also OP for PvE? From what I understood, chrono was considered one of the best tank for raids… now that does sound familiar to someone playing PvP…

The whole point of this is whats strong/OP/kitten in PvP isn’t whats strong/OP/kitten in PvE and Anet need to stop acting like it is.

Silverkey.2078:

Menaka.5092:

Levetty.1279:

Delete PvP please.

I would rather have it but not have the whole game balanced around a 5v5 conquest mode.

You do realize that if the shield block was OP for PvP, it was also OP for PvE? From what I understood, chrono was considered one of the best tank for raids… now that does sound familiar to someone playing PvP…

Still best tank in pve, you just have to time your blocks more now :P Love it.

What I meant is that it is not healthy for a class to have 4.5/30s block + 2.5/12s blur + 3/45s blur + 1-4/50s distortion, all of this on shorter CD thanks to alacrity.

And it is even worse in PvE since in PvP, the enemy may interrupt your block.

This is stupid regardless of the game mode.

And as many mentioned, in the PvE meta of “full damage is the only thing which matters”, this is actually a buff.

Silverkey.2078:

What I meant is that it is not healthy for a class to have 4.5/30s block + 2.5/12s blur + 3/45s blur + 1-4/50s distortion, all of this on shorter CD thanks to alacrity.

Why?

I mean, you state that as if it’s some universal truth, “it’s never healthy …”.

Why?

Shouldn’t classes, by nature of being different in their class, be about some sort of speciality? I mean with Mesmer, conceptually I expected to be ~invincible due to enemies mistaking me for my clones (yeah, didn’t work out) but in return be pretty kitten weak and rely on those for defense.

But in general, why is it bad if a class can get that much defense? Why not use it as a balancing point of the class, align the entire class around it and bake it into most aspects of it?

Carighan.6758:

Silverkey.2078:

What I meant is that it is not healthy for a class to have 4.5/30s block + 2.5/12s blur + 3/45s blur + 1-4/50s distortion, all of this on shorter CD thanks to alacrity.

Why?

I mean, you state that as if it’s some universal truth, “it’s never healthy …”.

Why?

Shouldn’t classes, by nature of being different in their class, be about some sort of speciality? I mean with Mesmer, conceptually I expected to be ~invincible due to enemies mistaking me for my clones (yeah, didn’t work out) but in return be pretty kitten weak and rely on those for defense.

But in general, why is it bad if a class can get that much defense? Why not use it as a balancing point of the class, align the entire class around it and bake it into most aspects of it?

Because there is a difference between getting defenses and being immune to everything for 50% of the time.

This game is about reaction and timing. You use your defensive skill to avoid/mitigate the most damaging skills. This assumes you pay attention to what is happening.

Core-mesmer was already fairly well equipped in this respect: we have a short CD evade on our most offensive weapon which still does good damage (especially in PvE where the enemy does not avoid it) and an instant cast invulnerability. If more needed, we have teleports, reflects and what not. In PvE, it is not rare that our clones/phantasms actually take the aggro.

So yes, I claim that this is universal truth, perfectly axiomatic: having so much invulnerability uptime is not healthy, and I am happy they nerfed that.

Well of precog becoming distortion as a hot fix…oh and it gets a 0.75s cast time but no after cast because having a cast time on a stunbreak makes sense.

For the source check page 5 of the link above or patch notes in a few hours when they hotfix it.

Silverkey.2078:

Carighan.6758:

Silverkey.2078:

What I meant is that it is not healthy for a class to have 4.5/30s block + 2.5/12s blur + 3/45s blur + 1-4/50s distortion, all of this on shorter CD thanks to alacrity.

Why?

I mean, you state that as if it’s some universal truth, “it’s never healthy …”.

Why?

Shouldn’t classes, by nature of being different in their class, be about some sort of speciality? I mean with Mesmer, conceptually I expected to be ~invincible due to enemies mistaking me for my clones (yeah, didn’t work out) but in return be pretty kitten weak and rely on those for defense.

But in general, why is it bad if a class can get that much defense? Why not use it as a balancing point of the class, align the entire class around it and bake it into most aspects of it?

Because there is a difference between getting defenses and being immune to everything for 50% of the time.

This game is about reaction and timing. You use your defensive skill to avoid/mitigate the most damaging skills. This assumes you pay attention to what is happening.

Core-mesmer was already fairly well equipped in this respect: we have a short CD evade on our most offensive weapon which still does good damage (especially in PvE where the enemy does not avoid it) and an instant cast invulnerability. If more needed, we have teleports, reflects and what not. In PvE, it is not rare that our clones/phantasms actually take the aggro.

So yes, I claim that this is universal truth, perfectly axiomatic: having so much invulnerability uptime is not healthy, and I am happy they nerfed that.

And you may have point if Mesmer was trivialising Raids fights and was the only tank people were willing to take. Neither is true.

Silverkey.2078:

So yes, I claim that this is universal truth, perfectly axiomatic: having so much invulnerability uptime is not healthy, and I am happy they nerfed that.

To me it just means that classes cannot specialize enough in GW2 right now.

I can’t be someone blasting wide areas with ridiculous AE damage, I can’t be a near-invulnerable tank, I can’t be a shining group defender with lots of support auras, etc.

I mean sure, all those exist in small versions. But we lack the archetypical RPG designs where someone is standing in front blocking a dragon’s attacks, and since our PvE and story is just as ridiculous as EQ1 or D&D or so, we might as well get the good parts, too.

If we’re not getting a story based on being “just someone”, then I want to feel special on a gameplay level, too. I want to be a clone-centric mesmer where it is flat out impossible for an enemy to truly know where I am, and short of just blanketing the whole area to make sure the real mesmer is hit, they got no chance to bring me down.
(In return, beyond annoying and harassing I don’t do anything to them)

Carighan.6758:

Silverkey.2078:

So yes, I claim that this is universal truth, perfectly axiomatic: having so much invulnerability uptime is not healthy, and I am happy they nerfed that.

To me it just means that classes cannot specialize enough in GW2 right now.

I can’t be someone blasting wide areas with ridiculous AE damage, I can’t be a near-invulnerable tank, I can’t be a shining group defender with lots of support auras, etc.

I mean sure, all those exist in small versions. But we lack the archetypical RPG designs where someone is standing in front blocking a dragon’s attacks, and since our PvE and story is just as ridiculous as EQ1 or D&D or so, we might as well get the good parts, too.

If we’re not getting a story based on being “just someone”, then I want to feel special on a gameplay level, too. I want to be a clone-centric mesmer where it is flat out impossible for an enemy to truly know where I am, and short of just blanketing the whole area to make sure the real mesmer is hit, they got no chance to bring me down.
(In return, beyond annoying and harassing I don’t do anything to them)

I don’t really agree. Chronomancer is one of the most unique archetypes. It has a very unique form of support (alacrity and quickness). Actually, it makes PvE more fun since it’s not anymore “spawn 3 phantasms and AA to death”. But having too much invulnerability reduces the importance of timing your defensive skills well, so it dumbs things down.

There are many ways to create unique archetypes, unique flighting styles, unique defense mechanisms without reaching extremes. Now I hope they will apply the same thing to power revenant (sword/shield-staff, shiro-glint) since they have actually a higher block/invuln uptime than us.

Carighan.6758:

I mean sure, all those exist in small versions. But we lack the archetypical RPG designs where someone is standing in front blocking a dragon’s attacks, and since our PvE and story is just as ridiculous as EQ1 or D&D or so, we might as well get the good parts, too.

As far as I can recall, D&D has been one of the few modern group based games in which you didn’t have a designated tank, instead having more of a control, damage, and support trinity, with most classes being some degree of hybrid between the three.

i.e. Wizards being primary control/support, with poor single target damage and excellent AoE (unless specifically built for damage via their feat choices)
Clerics being equally balanced in all three aspects.
Fighters being high damage, low control and support (Unless specifically built for it)
Rogues being kind of bad combat wise (They can usually build to an acceptable level in one aspect though) in exchange for not being completely terrible out of combat like fighters
etc.

If anyone’s blocking the dragon’s attacks to protect someone else, it’s probably the cleric or wizard that warded the group ahead of time. Dragons are intelligent beings, and any reasonable DM isn’t going to have them waste their time trying to break open the fighter that offers little control, isn’t supporting the group, and isn’t even a threat in terms of damage having sabotaged their damage dealing capability by using a shield when there are much more lightly armoured and more threatening opponents available to it.

Silverkey.2078:

What I meant is that it is not healthy for a class to have 4.5/30s block + 2.5/12s blur + 3/45s blur + 1-4/50s distortion, all of this on shorter CD thanks to alacrity.

And it is even worse in PvE since in PvP, the enemy may interrupt your block.

This is stupid regardless of the game mode.

And as many mentioned, in the PvE meta of “full damage is the only thing which matters”, this is actually a buff.

check engi block 6/30 shields , 2 immunities another 6 sec, perma regen, stealth like thieves, best healing skills in the game not to mention maraduer amulet as a sustain/bruiser build 20% less condi dmg….

messiah.1908:

Silverkey.2078:

What I meant is that it is not healthy for a class to have 4.5/30s block + 2.5/12s blur + 3/45s blur + 1-4/50s distortion, all of this on shorter CD thanks to alacrity.

And it is even worse in PvE since in PvP, the enemy may interrupt your block.

This is stupid regardless of the game mode.

And as many mentioned, in the PvE meta of “full damage is the only thing which matters”, this is actually a buff.

check engi block 6/30 shields , 2 immunities another 6 sec, perma regen, stealth like thieves, best healing skills in the game not to mention maraduer amulet as a sustain/bruiser build 20% less condi dmg….

I am well aware of that. Which is why engi can tank on a marauder amulet. Same problem with revenant, who can use berserker or viper (two hyper-glassy amulets).

The thing is all those things should be adjusted together in one massive nerf. Because if you look at the meta right now, you actually need those to survive. There is a reason why scrapper, rev, mesmer and tempest are the only classes left: they have absurd survivability which is their only way to deal with the absurd damage.

If you nerf engi.’s defenses, it will just fall out of the meta. I hope the january balance patch while be a severe toning down of all those blocks/invuln and this damage for all classes (only warrior is balanced imho), to get back to a reasonable meta.

Silverkey.2078:

The thing is all those things should be adjusted together in one massive nerf. Because if you look at the meta right now, you actually need those to survive. There is a reason why scrapper, rev, mesmer and tempest are the only classes left: they have absurd survivability which is their only way to deal with the absurd damage.

Hold on. Chronomancers need to use a tanky amulet. The other classes can do it, as you’ve said before, with Marauder/Zerker/Viper (and achieve the same, if not superior tankyness compared to bunker Chrono). Meaning while Chronomancers are that survivable but hit like a wet noodle, the other classes are that survivable (or even moreso) and can still do A LOT of damage. But obviously, it’s Mesmers/Chronomancers who get nerfed heavily. #yayforlogic

Add to that, that bunker was pretty much the only really viable build we could bring… as our main means of damage dies before it can actually do any damage nowadays. Other classes don’t have that problem either. But ya. Nerf Mesmers. They are not allowed to be playable in PvP!

Saturn.6591:

Silverkey.2078:

The thing is all those things should be adjusted together in one massive nerf. Because if you look at the meta right now, you actually need those to survive. There is a reason why scrapper, rev, mesmer and tempest are the only classes left: they have absurd survivability which is their only way to deal with the absurd damage.

Hold on. Chronomancers need to use a tanky amulet. The other classes can do it, as you’ve said before, with Marauder/Zerker/Viper (and achieve the same, if not superior tankyness compared to bunker Chrono). Meaning while Chronomancers are that survivable but hit like a wet noodle, the other classes are that survivable (or even moreso) and can still do A LOT of damage. But obviously, it’s Mesmers/Chronomancers who get nerfed heavily. #yayforlogic

Add to that, that bunker was pretty much the only really viable build we could bring… as our main means of damage dies before it can actually do any damage nowadays. Other classes don’t have that problem either. But ya. Nerf Mesmers. They are not allowed to be playable in PvP!

There were other issues at fault. Of course mesmer damage is irrelevant to this discussion, but the main issue was the combination of support and point-holding that made it an unconditionally better pick in the support role and the point-holding role compared to every other build in the game.

If a bunker chronomancer was around in a fight, the chance you’d be able to get cleave/stomp any downed on their side was extremely low because bunker chrono can rez with quickness, 10% rez speed, stability, and resistance (which nullifies the effect of poison on slowing downed rez speed) which had almost zero counterplay, even less so if precog was used.

Group damage nullification from precog is very difficult to balance. Why should precog let a whole group hold a capture point when every other damage nullification in the game besides blurred frenzy does not? Additionally the increase in cast time made it more consistent with the cast times of other wells and increased the amount of choice you have to make when using f5, since you won’t have time to spam all of your skills anymore, you now have to make a choice.

So what would you rather have nerfed? Point-holding? Or support? If the support got nerfed, chronomancer would be the equivalent of a sentinel’s plague necro, just a sponge made to stall a point as long as possible without giving much or any support to allies. If the pointholding is nerfed you can justifiably keep your support potential, which is more fun and more useful than just braindead holding a point, and thats more fun for everyone involved in the match.

Silverkey.2078:

For your information:

Mesmer

• Echo of Memory: Block duration reduced from 2.25 to 1.5

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Upcoming-Balance-Changes-Week-of-December-14-2015/

Also quite a few revenant nerfs. Overall good changes I think.

Oh no, not a nerf, it was………………………….

A BUG! right sure anet… sure, whatever you say.

Mesmers don’t get nerfs.
Neither do rangers. We just get bugs fixed…..