Guild Wars 2

i fell like a god with those might stack xD

JonPeters.5630:

ddoi.9264:

I don’t get it. The new Prismatic Understanding is a great buff that would have given the extra push to use the torch over others in pve…and they decided to exclude it.

Even more buffs to shatter build. Looks like every mesmer will only be shattering now. Who can say no to 30~50 seconds of 3-stack might?
Underwater, signet, mantra buffs, blade training fix, all nice.

Prismatic boon part works with prestige, we just made it so the duration part doesn’t because a trait to increase cast time of that skill would be bad. Sorry unclear notes there. On the IZerker he does hit correctly now but there is an issue with damage floaters not always appearing the we are now trying to track down.

Jon

Why does The Prestige need a cast time? Why can’t we just apply burning whenever we choose to emerge, or have the utility of channeling skills during The Prestige? It’s not like the torch is a super popular or strong weapon right now.

I feel like damage-builds are more important than others to everyone and Anet listens to the majority. The last days I tried to get away from the damage-role on my mesmer and tried a tanky-build. I loved the regeneration from phantasms and the protection I got from it by illusionary membrane. I heard it’s tons of fun in dungeons and I want to play something different than dps. Now I’m not sure if it’s possible anymore.

I would have felt much better if they turned Ill. Membrane trait into a major trait instead of limiting it to 3s protection every 15s.

i do like the signet of insparation buff though…

i still dont like the randomness of swiftness

will it procs or wont it

Jon – I ask that you double check your assertion that the problem is damage floaters.

I just got back from heart of the mist, and double checked. The beserker on it’s second pass at a target dummy is simply missing. What I am seeing is not a damage floater problem. I can tell, because when he misses the target dummies health does not drop, at all.

I have watched the beserker start his second pass on light target dummies with just a sliver of health left, with my auto attack turned off. The beserker whirls through it, completely misses, and does 0 damage. I know this to be true because if it did any damage, it would have destroyed the target dummy.

There may be a problem with damage numbers as well but that is not the problem I am seeing. I am seeing the beserker completely miss.

JonPeters.5630:

ddoi.9264:

I don’t get it. The new Prismatic Understanding is a great buff that would have given the extra push to use the torch over others in pve…and they decided to exclude it.

Even more buffs to shatter build. Looks like every mesmer will only be shattering now. Who can say no to 30~50 seconds of 3-stack might?
Underwater, signet, mantra buffs, blade training fix, all nice.

Prismatic boon part works with prestige, we just made it so the duration part doesn’t because a trait to increase cast time of that skill would be bad. Sorry unclear notes there. On the IZerker he does hit correctly now but there is an issue with damage floaters not always appearing the we are now trying to track down.

Jon

Vendris.4201:

Jon – I ask that you double check your assertion that the problem is damage floaters.

I just got back from heart of the mist, and double checked. The beserker on it’s second pass at a target dummy is simply missing. What I am seeing is not a damage floater problem. I can tell, because when he misses the target dummies health does not drop, at all.

I have watched the beserker start his second pass on light target dummies with just a sliver of health left, with my auto attack turned off. The beserker whirls through it, completely misses, and does 0 damage. I know this to be true because if it did any damage, it would have destroyed the target dummy.

There may be a problem with damage numbers as well but that is not the problem I am seeing. I am seeing the beserker completely miss.

JonPeters.5630:

ddoi.9264:

I don’t get it. The new Prismatic Understanding is a great buff that would have given the extra push to use the torch over others in pve…and they decided to exclude it.

Even more buffs to shatter build. Looks like every mesmer will only be shattering now. Who can say no to 30~50 seconds of 3-stack might?
Underwater, signet, mantra buffs, blade training fix, all nice.

Prismatic boon part works with prestige, we just made it so the duration part doesn’t because a trait to increase cast time of that skill would be bad. Sorry unclear notes there. On the IZerker he does hit correctly now but there is an issue with damage floaters not always appearing the we are now trying to track down.

Jon

Yea, i can confirm that issue too, altho, the iberserk will indeed apply the cripple effect even while the damage is missing.

Carighan.6758:

Iruwen.3164:

Good to see how they “listen”. Exactly what I expected, almost none of the bugs in the comprehensive list have been fixed, instead some irrelevant balancing changes and several new bugs. Thank you for nothing.

So? Other people prioritize balance higher on a personal level. Yet others – me included – can live with a handful of bugs and some balance issues as long as we get new stuff to play around with.
They have to deliver somewhere in between.

So you think the balancing they did with this patch actually changes how the mesmer is played or perceived by others? And you don’t think fixing things like the world completion star not being shown on clones or deceptive evasion clones attacking the nearest trashmob instead of the current target are not high priority fixes but should remain there for another few months? The class doesn’t need “new stuff” to play around with, that’s what new content is for and that’s a different team. The classes, and I’m not only talking about mesmers here, need proper balancing and bugfixing. I expected a lot from this update regarding bugfixes considering what they said before – and I’m pretty disappointed. Also, the portal change is not really sophisticated – again. Just like the cooldown increase, it doesn’t really change anything. They should be consequent and reduce the cooldown back to 60s and make it a five player port only so it’s actually used tactically instead of strategically.

Kuruptz.4782:

i do like the signet of insparation buff though…

i still dont like the randomness of swiftness

will it procs or wont it

I also don’t like that randomness, it’s still inferior and exactly the opposite of reliability. So we’re still stuck with a full set of runes of the centaur and mantra of recovery and/or a focus.

I didn’t mean the class, Iruwen. I’d just rather have new december content and a handful of bugs which honestly rarely if ever even annoy me, than nothing changing about the game but a few more bugfixes.

And well, the Portal CD sadly is a sPvP thing. If it’s on me, jettison sPvP into LoL and be done with listening to it for balance reason, it just makes fun skills bad. Bad game mode, bad balance, bad skills.

Carighan.6758:

I didn’t mean the class, Iruwen. I’d just rather have new december content and a handful of bugs which honestly rarely if ever even annoy me, than nothing changing about the game but a few more bugfixes.

This is true of course, but this isn’t an issue at all because there are different teams working on content, balancing and bugfixing (bugfixing is actually done by different teams, depending on what has to be fixed as ANet stated). And while the content team really delivers, I mainly criticize the bugfixing. I can live with the balancing issues, it’s just sad that PvP isn’t treated completely separate from WvW/PvE.
I’m not really mad – but very disappointed.

well, the patch is great for shatter builds and not so great for everything else. Swiftness and mobility is still a problem for mesmers. iBerserker is great for the 1st attack, but is completely unreliable afterwards as it no longer moves to readjust its attack on the target.

JonPeters.5630:

ddoi.9264:

I don’t get it. The new Prismatic Understanding is a great buff that would have given the extra push to use the torch over others in pve…and they decided to exclude it.

Even more buffs to shatter build. Looks like every mesmer will only be shattering now. Who can say no to 30~50 seconds of 3-stack might?
Underwater, signet, mantra buffs, blade training fix, all nice.

Prismatic boon part works with prestige, we just made it so the duration part doesn’t because a trait to increase cast time of that skill would be bad. Sorry unclear notes there. On the IZerker he does hit correctly now but there is an issue with damage floaters not always appearing the we are now trying to track down.

Jon

Ah I see, thank you for the clarification. It’s true the casting duration is already long enough as it is in its current state where most of our skills are disabled while channeling. Any chance a change can be made so you can at least dodge while not breaking the channel?

And it’s great you guys are continuing to pay attention at greatsword problems; a lot of us here appreciate that. Thank you.

I am pleased to see some minor buffs. Though 15second CD perhaps is a bit much on Protections.

possante.8310:

i fell like a god with those might stack xD

Congrats, you now know what every warrior and thief feels all the time.

SteepledHat.1345:

possante.8310:

I feel like a god with those stacks of might xD

Congrats, you now know what every warrior and thief feels all the time.

Not quite. We don’t have a weapon with an auto-attack that deals equal damage 33% faster than all others, we can’t move at +33-50% speed, we don’t have 9 different ways to deal direct damage in the thousands in less than a second, we can’t stack conditions without sigils and/or runes, we can’t stealth for more than 6 seconds, we can’t catch or escape from our enemies, and our indirect source of damage (phantasms) have been getting worse and worse since release.

…but, dude, we got 9 stacks of might.

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

SteepledHat.1345:

possante.8310:

I feel like a god with those stacks of might xD

Congrats, you now know what every warrior and thief feels all the time.

Not quite. We don’t have a weapon with an auto-attack that deals equal damage 33% faster than all others, we can’t move at +33-50% speed, we don’t have 9 different ways to deal direct damage in the thousands in less than a second, we can’t stack conditions without sigils and/or runes, we can’t stealth for more than 6 seconds, we can’t catch or escape from our enemies, and our indirect source of damage (phantasms) have been getting worse and worse since release.

…but, dude, we got 9 stacks of might.

OMG, nerf mesmer too much might!
(Good points.)

Regarding swiftness: I do not believe mesmers are supposed to be good at running. Every class has their strengths and weaknesses, and of course: theme. Sprinting around like a sweaty non-clone is neither baffling to opponents nor stylish to potential admirers. Our weapon-based teleports are reliable, utility teleports are good in a pinch, and we have clones and stealth to reduce the need for performing public scenes of leggy exertion when in the heat of it. For a mesmer, it is not so much about where you are, as it is about where you appear to be.

That only applies for combat, of course. I would like to see Signet of Inspiration’s passive split two ways: In combat, it grants the current random boons; out of combat, it alternates between swiftness and aegis.

Did I mention that confusion is an absolute joke? No, I didn’t. Confusion is an absolute joke.

Gulesave.5073:

Regarding swiftness: I do not believe mesmers are supposed to be good at running. Every class has their strengths and weaknesses, and of course: theme. Sprinting around like a sweaty non-clone is neither baffling to opponents nor stylish to potential admirers. Our weapon-based teleports are reliable, utility teleports are good in a pinch, and we have clones and stealth to reduce the need for performing public scenes of leggy exertion when in the heat of it. For a mesmer, it is not so much about where you are, as it is about where you appear to be.

That only applies for combat, of course. I would like to see Signet of Inspiration’s passive split two ways: In combat, it grants the current random boons; out of combat, it alternates between swiftness and aegis.

K, so I can start sending my clones to activate vistas and unlock waypoints? Or do I still have to run there?

SteepledHat.1345:

Gulesave.5073:

That only applies for combat, of course. I would like to see Signet of Inspiration’s passive split two ways: In combat, it grants the current random boons; out of combat, it alternates between swiftness and aegis.

K, so I can start sending my clones to activate vistas and unlock waypoints? Or do I still have to run there?

Classes should be equal as explorers. Keep reading to the bottom part of my post, (cropped above).

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Did I mention that confusion is an absolute joke? No, I didn’t. Confusion is an absolute joke.

With high Condition Damage/Duration and some well-practiced timing, Confusion can be one of the most damaging tools in the mesmer kit. It has the highest DPS of any condition in the game, but requires genuine skill to use properly. Combine it with Retaliation and your enemies practically commit suicide.

And yet a berserker shatter build will do what your gimmick confusion does, but consistently, with more damage, and it doesn’t rely on fast attacking opponents or gimping your other attacks by stacking condi damage and condi duration on a profession that does no good condition damage compared to actual condition classes.

But you die in a few seconds when your cds are down and confusion mesmers dont.

Necro sent my confusion back to me, i got hit twice for 3k per skill.

Zenith.7301:

And yet a berserker shatter build will do what your gimmick confusion does, but consistently, with more damage, and it doesn’t rely on fast attacking opponents or gimping your other attacks by stacking condi damage and condi duration on a profession that does no good condition damage compared to actual condition classes.

Who implied that you would rely on it as a primary function? Confusion is unavoidably integrated into the class at multiple levels, and making good use of it is just part of being an effective mesmer, regardless of build. Where do you think most of your shatter damage comes from?

Osicat.4139:

I can understand the frustration for tPvP and phantasm players who had illusionary membrane as a core in their spec, even if it was a bit op with constant protection a 15 sec cd is alot.

Still to claim the whole class mesmer patch is a nerf when al shatter mesmers just seen the biggest buff sens relese is not 100% correct. Its more another balance patch where aNet balancing mesmers by favour shatter spec.

If this is the correct way I leav others to discuss but its a fact that at same time phantasm spec get nerf after nerf shatter spec accualy get heavy buffs.

/Osicat

ps the tPvP bugg is prob fixed tomorow.

The frustration comes in when tPvP players are further pushed into their shatter spec’s. It comes in when we can get 3 seconds of protection from our unreliable phantasms every 15 seconds when other classes (ele/guardian) can maintain 100% protection uptime. It comes in when we get “buffed” and everybody is super excited and talking about how happy they are about the patch… then they realise a week later that stronger classes were buffed x2 and despite our buffs we’re still further behind.

Buffs and nerfs are all relative.

Don’t get me wrong; I for one like the patch. It has motivated me to play another class.

@Wise: I too like the patch in retrospect, for the same reason, I’ve been playing my Elementalist more and more now, my Necro hit 80, and I’ve even got my eyes on Engineer again. Next we can just remove Phantasms from the Mesmer profession, and buff Shatter a bit more so I can play my Shatterer better, purely as glass, because Mesmer do not need bunker builds at all.

Speaking from encountering mesmers in player-versus-player; The patch before the 14th the Mesmer became much less of a threat, which just broke the class mechanics, causing the initial fear for mesmers I had for the class to be less severe. With solid tactics against a good mesmer, you had a decent enough chance. But, now? At the slightest hint of encountering a mesmer, I turn around and run away as fast as I can. The damage became phenomenal, phantasm actually deal damage before properly appearing (no dodge possibilities) and the clones/hiding/teleportation is as annoying as ever. Usually having relied on dodging to counter the massive, massive (!) berserker damage, I now have no idea what to do anymore.

Would an experienced mesmer player please elaborate possible tactics against you tanky GS mesmers with berserkers?

Deathspike.1870:

Speaking from encountering mesmers in player-versus-player; The patch before the 14th the Mesmer became much less of a threat, which just broke the class mechanics, causing the initial fear for mesmers I had for the class to be less severe. With solid tactics against a good mesmer, you had a decent enough chance. But, now? At the slightest hint of encountering a mesmer, I turn around and run away as fast as I can. The damage became phenomenal, phantasm actually deal damage before properly appearing (no dodge possibilities) and the clones/hiding/teleportation is as annoying as ever. Usually having relied on dodging to counter the massive, massive (!) berserker damage, I now have no idea what to do anymore.

Would an experienced mesmer player please elaborate possible tactics against you tanky GS mesmers with berserkers?

Dodge while they are casting phantasms, they won’t summon at all.

Are we playing the same game Deathspike? The Phantasms DEFINITELY spawn and have about a quarter of a second of visibility before attacking, giving you just the right amount of time to dodge if you are watching the animation of the Mesmer holding his sword above his head and mouthing the words “THUNDER! THUNDER! THUNDERRRRCATS!!! HOOOOOO!!!!!!” (at least in my head) Oh hey a Berserker is about to appear. . . I should probably be ready to dodge. >.>

At any rate, Elementalist are much more fun to play with all that Protection rolling.

I really hope Anet rework portals pretty soon. Having the cooldown increased to 90 seconds is just not fun at all and doesn’t prevent the insane success rate of portal bombing. It also impacts PvE, where portals are so much fun for helping other players during jumping puzzles or for avoiding traps in dungeons.

Reduce the cooldown to 45-60 seconds, and only allow 5 players (Mesmer + rest of party) to port through before it closes. Portals are so much fun to use. I want to use them more often and in more interesting situations other than decimating enemy zergs. Portals should be for sneaking small stealthy groups quickly around the battlefield not for transporting entire armies.

Esorono.1039:

Dodge while they are casting phantasms, they won’t summon at all.

Really? I have to learn how to do this. Thanks for the tip!

Delofakitten.4231:

The Phantasms DEFINITELY spawn and have about a quarter of a second of visibility before attacking, giving you just the right amount of time to dodge if you are watching the animation of the Mesmer holding his sword above his head and mouthing the words “THUNDER! THUNDER! THUNDERRRRCATS!!! HOOOOOO!!!!!!” (at least in my head) Oh hey a Berserker is about to appear. . . I should probably be ready to dodge. >.>

I suspect the same issues as un-stealthing thieves are at work here. On my mesmer (an awesome level 15), I see the them appear and attack almost immediately, however an enemy mesmer phantasm in pvp does not appear before having done its damage. Very frustrating. Besides, the animations aren’t very clear on some races, but I’ll try

Leo Paul.1659:

O_O there must be a ninja nerf somewhere. mesmers always get nerfed! why break the tradition this time?! if there isn’t (portal nerf was necessary) then this just might be one of the best gifts in gw2 ever.

They got a nerf with Membran, really hurtful nerf to any tank mez.

JonPeters.5630:

On the IZerker he does hit correctly now but there is an issue with damage floaters not always appearing the we are now trying to track down.

Jon

Hahaha. This one made me laugh.

So they’re actually doing damage but people don’t see numbers and complain? Anyone else see the irony of this and the philosophy the company takes of “not playing the UI”?

I know it sounds like I’m being harsh, but I truely do find this funny…

After the Membrane nerf, I can at least stop gathering all that tanking gear for my UberTankMesmer build. For now at least.

Lazy Kai GS shatter build all the way…

Yup. in spvp it appears you’re pigeon holed into a one trick pony shatter build just to keep up, especially with the Shattered Strength trait.

The more I think about it, the more amusing it is. All the so called improvements to the phantasms are really just reverting them back to where they were before they got broke. Movement speed wise we’re just beat. Can’t run away, cant chase down. It boggles the mind how anyone can look at the professions across the board and think, yeah, that’s ok.

Yes, all the festive themes are nice to haves but you know what? I’d trade all of it for Anet to spend all that effort on getting the profession balance and bugs sorted out properly.

FLIMP.8172:

But you die in a few seconds when your cds are down and confusion mesmers dont.

Offhand sword, decoy, and Illusionary Wave+ Deceptive Evasion say otherwise.

Confusion mesmers are absolute garbage, particularly in PvE and DE. If you think your confusion mesmer does anything meaningful in a dungeon, you need to get real.

Gulesave.5073:

Zenith.7301:

And yet a berserker shatter build will do what your gimmick confusion does, but consistently, with more damage, and it doesn’t rely on fast attacking opponents or gimping your other attacks by stacking condi damage and condi duration on a profession that does no good condition damage compared to actual condition classes.

Who implied that you would rely on it as a primary function? Confusion is unavoidably integrated into the class at multiple levels, and making good use of it is just part of being an effective mesmer, regardless of build. Where do you think most of your shatter damage comes from?

No. I’m pretty sure damage my mesmer does comes from the phantasms I summon, blurred frenzy, and then shattering those phantasms alongside any clones.

Confusion is marginal damage if I run Illusionary Persona, and completely nonexistant if I run 30/30/0/0/10 instead.

Go to the thief forum and see them QQ about 50% only in stealth is not enough and that all other classes are more mobile than thieves. They obviously never played a mesmer.
Made my day….a thief complaining about not being mobile enough.

Well, it didn’t used to be true, because we had the 25% speed buff, but now everyone has that, so Thieves’ve really dropped in the speed rankings. Keep in mind that thieves do not have any way to keep Swiftness up for any reasonable amount of time (we can get bursts of up to 20 seconds or so out of every minute or so, maybe, by using Steal (10s), then spamming Dodge (2s each time)), and a speed buff while stealthed is really not great unless you’re in a stealth build. Stealth is a condition that in most cases only lasts a couple of seconds at a time.

Thieves can dodge very well compared to most classes, they’re good at moving around, but now that everyone gets 25% (which I applaud, considering I have alts in every class), they are nowhere near the speed demon classes anymore.

Now, I’m not saying that Mesmers couldn’t use a better speed buff option, my own seems painfully slow, but then she’s a Charr and they always seem slow because of the scaling issues.

Zenith.7301:

FLIMP.8172:

But you die in a few seconds when your cds are down and confusion mesmers dont.

Offhand sword, decoy, and Illusionary Wave+ Deceptive Evasion say otherwise.

Confusion mesmers are absolute garbage, particularly in PvE and DE. If you think your confusion mesmer does anything meaningful in a dungeon, you need to get real.

I think you missed the point where I said “when your cds are down”. Between your glass canon and a confusion mesmer, confusion mesmers have way more survivability. Ive played both builds and confusion does plenty of damage when timed correctly.

Edit: this is in wvw btw – i dont pve so i cant comment on that aspect

I’m just sad they didn’t get rid of the world completion medal, or at least give it to the clones.

Dunno if he read it (he probably receives trillions), but I sent Jonathan a PM about my disappointment concerning the amount of (nonexisting) bugfixes yesterday, including the world completion star and clones attacking the nearest target. And also about the portal change. He probably notices this thread anyway. I just don’t get why things that appear to be so easily fixable aren’t simply fixed. I thought we created the buglist primarily so they know what’s broken and can fix it, not so we can create our builds working around all the bugs…

No, they are not actually doing damage. If you’d bothered to read the thread, you would know that Jon is incorrect. Multiple people in this thread have tested, and posting results.

Jon’s assertion that they are hitting and doing damage, but the floaters are not appearing, is wrong.

The most frustrating part of trying to report the bugs that are crippling our class is the people who come to the forums to disrupt threads and mock and insult people, who have no idea what they are talking about.

Redscope.6215:

JonPeters.5630:

On the IZerker he does hit correctly now but there is an issue with damage floaters not always appearing the we are now trying to track down.

Jon

Hahaha. This one made me laugh.

So they’re actually doing damage but people don’t see numbers and complain? Anyone else see the irony of this and the philosophy the company takes of “not playing the UI”?

I know it sounds like I’m being harsh, but I truely do find this funny…

FLIMP.8172:

Zenith.7301:

FLIMP.8172:

But you die in a few seconds when your cds are down and confusion mesmers dont.

Offhand sword, decoy, and Illusionary Wave+ Deceptive Evasion say otherwise.

Confusion mesmers are absolute garbage, particularly in PvE and DE. If you think your confusion mesmer does anything meaningful in a dungeon, you need to get real.

I think you missed the point where I said “when your cds are down”. Between your glass canon and a confusion mesmer, confusion mesmers have way more survivability. Ive played both builds and confusion does plenty of damage when timed correctly.

Edit: this is in wvw btw – i dont pve so i cant comment on that aspect

And your confusion build instead relies on cooldowns to do any damage at all— you have to use glamours and jump through all the hoops to spike a confusion stack, and 12 stacks of confusion is not something you can do often either.

My shatter mesmer can just switch out berserker gear for pow/tough/precision jewels and pow/tough/vit gear and still do more sustained damage and consistent burst than a confusion mesmer while gaining survivability.

The majority of your stats come from your gear, and the mesmer’s survivability comes from them as traits don’t offer that much in survivability compared to my bunker elementalist who can pretty much permanently keep all boons on himself up just by speccing 30 arcana and 30 water for easy condition removal and high healing.

Whoop-dee-doo, a mesmer can just give 3-4 secs of protection to himself every 15 seconds. My elementalist can give himself and allies 7 seconds of protection every 10 seconds, permanent regen kept up every 10 seconds, and with Zephy’s Boon I can also share my auras that give them all fury for 10+ seconds.

Mesmer traiting outside damage specs is absolute garbage. We got Vigorous Revelations and lower cd, longer lasting glamours. That’s as far as mesmer support and survival increasing utilities go.

Some goods but
Illusionary Leap must to be fixed (i am waiting that so badly), i mean, it should be 7sec CD with the -20%cd traits (Illusionist celerity and Blade training).

Plz dont forget it the next time.

JonPeters.5630:

On the IZerker he does hit correctly now but there is an issue with damage floaters not always appearing the we are now trying to track down.

Jon

This isn’t true, unless the berserker is supposed to be incredibly unreliable at landing hits on immobile targets, let alone moving.

I was testing with a friend to see if it was just an issue with the damage floaters not appearing, the very first time I cast my Berserker on him it hit him only ONCE, after that it randomly hit him 1-4×.

This is a drastic change from before all of this started where he usually got most of his hits off.

ekkue.3754:

I’m just sad they didn’t get rid of the world completion medal, or at least give it to the clones.

No, that would make our core mechanic actually useful and completely ruin all the noob warriors.

Zenith.7301:

And your confusion build instead relies on cooldowns to do any damage at all— you have to use glamours and jump through all the hoops to spike a confusion stack, and 12 stacks of confusion is not something you can do often either.

No offense but this argument is pretty stupid – all classes rely on cooldowns to do any damage. Also, confusion build doesnt necessarily mean using glamours and or that crap – it could simply mean using a torch/sceptre and using cry of frustration more often than mind wrack.

Zenith.7301:

My shatter mesmer can just switch out berserker gear for pow/tough/precision jewels and pow/tough/vit gear and still do more sustained damage and consistent burst than a confusion mesmer while gaining survivability.

Now you’re changing your argument and no longer talking about your “bezerker shatter build” and you can’t have a “consistent burst” – it just doesn’t make sense unless by consistent you mean reliable since confusion relies on their enemy to blow themselves up then yes, I agree with you here)

Zenith.7301:

The majority of your stats come from your gear, and the mesmer’s survivability comes from them as traits don’t offer that much in survivability compared to my bunker elementalist who can pretty much permanently keep all boons on himself up just by speccing 30 arcana and 30 water for easy condition removal and high healing.

Whoop-dee-doo, a mesmer can just give 3-4 secs of protection to himself every 15 seconds. My elementalist can give himself and allies 7 seconds of protection every 10 seconds, permanent regen kept up every 10 seconds, and with Zephy’s Boon I can also share my auras that give them all fury for 10+ seconds.

Mesmer traiting outside damage specs is absolute garbage. We got Vigorous Revelations and lower cd, longer lasting glamours. That’s as far as mesmer support and survival increasing utilities go.

You’ve sort off gone off topic here and arguing about other things. What I’m trying to say is, a glass canon has the term glass for a reason – you’re squishy. If someone goes a confusion build (which naturally means they are going to equip condition gear), they are going to have more survivability, simply because they would have more toughness/vitality from their gear and be traited more defensively.

And you’re probably thinking “pfft this guy’s a noob who doesn’t know how to play a bezerker shatter build and QQ’s cos he dies in a few seconds”. I’ve been playing that build since the game was released (and I still play it here and there ontop of my condition/confusion mesmer) and I know exactly the pros and cons of the build and if you don’t believe me, you can watch my videos…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLnoZj_5lfQ

We’ve gone off topic here so I’m gonna leave this as my last response to you. If you disagree, we’ll agree to disagree

The cooldowns on stacking confusion are considerably larger than the cooldowns on Mindwrack and summoning phantasms.

Scepter/torch by itself does not spike enough confusion to even spike better than a mindwrack, and quite frankly I’m tired of people defending it because they’re killing upscaled players in WvW who are affected by the PvE confusion formula instead of the gimp spvp one.

WvW is a horrible mode by which to compare class balance. It’s an unfair format to begin with that allows imbalance by the presence of inflated crit damage stacking and food buffs coupled with backstab thieves. In spvp you notice backstab thieves are less effective because they can’t reach 110 crit damage bonus like they can in WvW.

And I’m especially tired of people telling me my mesmer is fine when they mean WvW zergfests and killing upscaled players while I’m talking high level fractals and Arah explorable modes.

In particular I do like the new animation for illusionary leap, also the range now actually seems to be 600. It would be a solid patch, if iberserk was ineed fixed, because.. as for now is still missing a lot.

I was reading this thread and others and I just wanted to state that a condition mesmer is strong in PvE. With a lvl 80 mesmer with all exotics, condition damage around 1300, a critical chance around 40%, an extra bounce for winds of chaos, clones causing bleeds on critical hits, and you + 2 clones out, your bleed stacking essentially works out to 6 chances/sec (from 2 bounces from winds of chaos per you/illusions) at 33% probability (randomness of winds of chaos) + 4 chances/sec at 40% (clones critting) + 2 chance/sec at 24% (you critting with sigil of earth is .40*.60 = .24) to apply bleeds of 110 dmg per tick. Simplifying things and averaging the probabilities during WoC spamming, you have roughly 12 chances/sec at 33% probability to apply a bleed, working out to an average of 4 bleeds added per second. As they last for 5 seconds, by the 5th second in this scenario, you’ve reached you’re average stack of 20 bleeds. 20 bleeds * 110 dmg equates to 2200 dmg per second that is NOT negated by any armor. Without outlining any more math, at the 10th second in this scenario you have will have applied roughly 15,400k dmg from bleeds alone. And, we haven’t even factored in the burns you’re doing at 663 damage when you’re not applying bleeds (likely 3 over 10 second), the increased damage from vulnerability (also 3 likely in 10 seconds), the increased damage from the might/fury you get from WoC bounces, a 3rd staff clone, the base weapon damgage, a chaos storm, and the additional condition damage you can add to yourself by having runes of the undead (condition damage not applied to clones).

Obviously, in reality, WoC takes more than a second to complete one cast + its bounces, bounces get lost, your clones will get killed, you’ll have to spawn new ones, you’ll have to evade attacks, etc., etc., meaning that you can never really make things as simple as I just did, but, my point is that a condition build is powerful. Yeah, confusion might not be great in PvE (it’s a no-brainer in WvW), but mesmers have access to other conditions and boons that make them a beast if outfitted to do condition damage. You can even pop up clones to fight off lesser npcs while you handle a vet or something and often times the clones can take them down on their own before dying. Three clones working by themselves for 10 secs can actually stack more bleeds and do more damage than the scenario above because their 40% chance of applying a bleed on a crit is not brought down by factoring in your inferior ability to apply bleeds on crits.