Guild Wars 2

With rangers the way they are right now I find myself in actual need of the old reflect. Decoy is pointless as going into stealth doesn’t stop the channel attacks, obviously.

• You’ve already dropped echo and the attack absorb. Fine. Great. Whatever.
• You’ve increased the CD for who knows what reason….
• Now bring back the 4s reflect/block. Then it’d have multiple purposes (on top of the boon copy), maybe worth the 30s base CD, and I’d have a use for it.

I agree. Would prefer the old Mimic to the new one. The LB rangers are cheesing hard.

Are you saying that you’d actually run Mimic in your build because the ranger changes?

MailMail.6534:

Are you saying that you’d actually run Mimic in your build because the ranger changes?

A properly working one in WvW, yes.

I want old mimic because of the old Echo sound and the little orb levitating around you

The best part is that I’m sure they made this change because their metrics said that mimic was extremely underused. Unfortunately, they didn’t stop to wonder if this change was turning the skill into something that no one would want to run ever in any possible build…

Edit: oops. You oopsed too

Fay.2357:

The best part is that I’m sure they made this change because their metrics said that decoy was extremely underused. Unfortunately, they didn’t stop to wonder if this change was turning the skill into something that no one would want to run ever in any possible build…

I guess you mean Decoy. [Edit] Darn it. Mimic!

But yes, that probably is the reason. And it’s probably right. But the thing they did with Mimic is so obivously stupid it hurts. I really can’t wrap my head around it. Overall, I’m pretty pleased with the class changes introduced this patch (although it should have been more considering the time it took…). But this change doesn’t make any sense at all.

At this point they could take Mimic out of the game and nobody would miss it since it basically is a slightly more boon focussed Arcane Thievery. With all the Rangers around I’m extremly glad I usually run Mirror and Feedback anyway.

My main defense against Rangers is going to be interrupts, I just wish we had more of them.

If you trait, you can get 3 with mantra, there’s GS 5 knockback, chance on Chaos Storm, offhand sword 4 (double tap), pistol 5, focus 4 pull, and Diversion (3rd shatter). There are a lot of options for interrupt. What “more” do you want?

Calliope.8675:

If you trait, you can get 3 with mantra, there’s GS 5 knockback, chance on Chaos Storm, offhand sword 4 (double tap), pistol 5, focus 4 pull, and Diversion (3rd shatter). There are a lot of options for interrupt. What “more” do you want?

Something to save us from 1500 range. None of those interrupts will do anything for you if two rangers catch you offguard. I’d really like the old Mimic back; see arrow flying at me —> mash Mimic.

Most of the rangers I’ve run across are not going to maintain that kind of range. More over, they said interrupts, not range. So, the question stands. What more do you want in the way of interrupts? We have several.

Honestly, I’m confused. See a ranger? Pop Feedback. Why would old Mimic have been better? I’d prefer the reflect with the new sped up Rapid Fire.

Also, new Mimic + Sig of Inspiration = nice group support.

Seras.5702:

Honestly, I’m confused. See a ranger? Pop Feedback. Why would old Mimic have been better? I’d prefer the reflect with the new sped up Rapid Fire.

Also, new Mimic + Sig of Inspiration = nice group support.

Old Mimics reflect was far superior to Feedback. Feedback could be exited by the target, Mimic focused the reflect on you. Traited Mimic was a 20s CD, and manip traiting is something people actually do. Feedback is a 40s CD and traiting glamors is reserved for a certain kind of madness these days. Your confusion is no longer warranted.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your confusion is no longer warranted.

So it would seem.

Thanks for clearing it up for me. Snarkiness aside.

So far I am loving mimic on my 4 4 6 chaotic interrupt build with gs/staff or s/f staff. I have even made several mimic plays so far lol. I find mimic a very strong but balanced skill. I honestly don’t even notice the extra 5 sec cd.

Seras.5702:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your confusion is no longer warranted.

So it would seem.

Thanks for clearing it up for me. Snarkiness aside.

Don’t mind me, I was just being cheeky :p

Agreed. I said this as soon as they announced this change.

Yes, the old Mimic was situational. But kitten, the situation it was useful in was crystal clear. When you’re facing a bunch of rangers or whatever else with lots of projectiles (bow warriors, thieves perhaps).

The new Mimic is also situational. However, what the hell situation is it useful in? When you’re facing one guy with a bunch of buffs?

I’m sorry but this was a really ridiculous change. Put Mimic back the way it was. Where did they even get the idea to do this? The ONLY problem with Mimic was that the tooltip was terribly, terribly written. 75% of the time when I tell a mesmer (the old) Mimic is awesome, they’re like, “But like doesn’t it just absorb a projectile?” They had no idea there was FOUR SECONDS OF REFLECT. Why? Because the tooltip was awful. It said something like, “Absorb a projectile to fire back at your enemy.”

…then, there was a little blurb that said: “Reflect: 4s”. To most people, what that meant was for four seconds, you had a chance to absorb a single projectile to fire back at the enemy. It sounds awful. But what the tooltip REALLY meant was:

“Reflect all projectiles for four seconds. Additionally, you will absorb the first projectile fired, which you can then fire back at the enemy.”

ANet buried the lede on that tooltip, then when no one was using Mimic, instead of clearing up their writing they just threw the whole kitten thing out. Argh, really upset by this. Again it was situational but kitten there was a really clear situation for it, and in those situations it was really good.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

So far I am loving mimic on my 4 4 6 chaotic interrupt build with gs/staff or s/f staff. I have even made several mimic plays so far lol. I find mimic a very strong but balanced skill. I honestly don’t even notice the extra 5 sec cd.

This post doesn’t even make sense to me.

Yeah it’s “balanced” I guess in that it’s an extremely weak skill that neither hurts the enemy nor benefits the caster in any meaningful way in a fight.

robotempire.2451:

The new Mimic is also situational. However, what the hell situation is it useful in? When you’re facing one guy with a bunch of buffs?

Earlier today, stole 6 min of stability off an engi…

frifox.5283:

robotempire.2451:

The new Mimic is also situational. However, what the hell situation is it useful in? When you’re facing one guy with a bunch of buffs?

Earlier today, stole 6 min of stability off an engi…

Oh right, this was the one thing I’d thought of.

Mantra of concentration vs mimic. You lose the stun break, but if you can steal good stability you’re golden. In a zerg situation that can make it superior since its a 25s mantra cd vs 30s mimic cd. But, of course, it’s chaotic by nature. You have to find a target, and find him with a good amount of stability. Otherwise…..

And retal stacking got nerfed with Light Aura, so there goes an easy boon to steal copy.

Ross Biddle.2367:

frifox.5283:

robotempire.2451:

The new Mimic is also situational. However, what the hell situation is it useful in? When you’re facing one guy with a bunch of buffs?

Earlier today, stole 6 min of stability off an engi…

Oh right, this was the one thing I’d thought of.

Mantra of concentration vs mimic. You lose the stun break, but if you can steal good stability you’re golden. In a zerg situation that can make it superior since its a 25s mantra cd vs 30s mimic cd. But, of course, it’s chaotic by nature. You have to find a target, and find him with a good amount of stability. Otherwise…..

First, six minutes of stability? What. How does that work? Can engis stack stability or?

Second, leaving that aside, literally no one in their right mind should be equipping this skill with the plan of “I’m going to click around looking for someone that has stability, then cast it, then hope and pray they don’t dodge roll or run out of range!”

Come on, that’s ridiculous. That is such a waste of a skill slot. You are absolutely grasping at straws.

edit: Wait, were you being sarcastic? Your other posts imply you want Mimic back the way it was. I’m confused now.

Fay.2357:

The best part is that I’m sure they made this change because their metrics said that mimic was extremely underused. Unfortunately, they didn’t stop to wonder if this change was turning the skill into something that no one would want to run ever in any possible build…

If this is in fact the reason they re-did this trait, I guarantee the reason it was underused was because the tooltip was terrible:

“Manipulation: Absorb a projectile attack to be redirected at foe.

Duration: 4 sec
Reflects missiles."

No one used it because no one knew what it did. Most mesmers I talked to about this missed the “Reflects missiles” part at the bottom because they read the top, saw that it sucked & looked boring/useless, and never got to the “Reflects missiles” part.

Put Mimic back the way it was and fix the darn tooltip.

robotempire.2451:

First, six minutes of stability? What. How does that work? Can engis stack stability or?

It was a unique case and I had time to equip skills. Engi dropped his mortar that gave him 2 min of stabo. Mimic + Arcane thievery = 4 mins. Push/pull him away from the mortar. When he came back on his mortar my skills were off cd and I robbed 4 more mins of stabo. Granted, that engi was my friend so he didn’t mind… XD

I could definitely see a combo with Arcane Thievery in zerging. Necro pops lich/plague form (20 sec stabo). You copy + steal it for 40 sec of stability and then moa the poor guy to rub it in. Since you know, veil bots need only one utility to be viable… a Veil.

frifox.5283:

robotempire.2451:

First, six minutes of stability? What. How does that work? Can engis stack stability or?

It was a unique case and I had time to equip skills. Engi dropped his mortar that gave him 2 min of stabo. Mimic + Arcane thievery = 4 mins. Push/pull him away from the mortar. When he came back on his mortar my skills were off cd and I robbed 4 more mins of stabo.

I could definitely see a combo with Arcane Thievery in zerging. Necro pops lich/plague form (20 sec stabo). You copy + steal it for 40 sec of stability and then moa the poor guy to rub it in.

No, I’m sorry. This requires way too much clicking around and trying to find just the right person, all the while you’re being useless as hell, probably standing around, focusing on what buffs the person you’re clicking on has. This is the exact opposite of what you should be doing in big battles. It’s navel gazing and takes you out of the fight. It benefits absolutely no one but you unless you’re also going to run Signet of Inspiration, in which case… I don’t know. That’s awful. You’re running a build specifically for a single trick that takes you mentally out of the fight at hand. It’s a dumb gimmick.

I agree that it’s neat you can do this (if you can, sounds suspect but also glitchy enough to make it through testing) but “neat” and “is useful in WvW” are not synonyms.

Old mimic would have been nice huh. On another note mirror has become my go to heal.

robotempire.2451:

You’re running a build specifically for a single trick that takes you mentally out of the fight at hand. It’s a dumb gimmick.

Build? I think you meant “only two utilities”.

Neptune.2570:

Old mimic would have been nice huh. On another note mirror has become my go to heal.

The reflect is just way too short (2s), and a heal is just way too valuable to use for a moment of reflection IMO. It’s really, really inefficient.

The only other reasonable option now to counter ranger spam is Feedback and traited Focus 4. Those are both decent options. But you have to get particular traits for the latter to work, and feedback is trivial to circumvent.

frifox.5283:

robotempire.2451:

You’re running a build specifically for a single trick that takes you mentally out of the fight at hand. It’s a dumb gimmick.

Build? I think you meant “only two utilities”.

Pedantic. If people can use the word “meta” like they do in this game, I can use the word “build” to mean “the traits & skills you’re using”.

Anyway, yes it’s a dumb gimmick to toss out mantras, null field, veil, blink, and so forth, so you can have a once-in-a-blue-moon chance to maybe copy a buff someone has at what might maybe be the right moment.

robotempire.2451:

Neptune.2570:

Old mimic would have been nice huh. On another note mirror has become my go to heal.

The reflect is just way too short (2s), and a heal is just way too valuable to use for a moment of reflection IMO. It’s really, really inefficient.

The only other reasonable option now to counter ranger spam is Feedback and traited Focus 4. Those are both decent options. But you have to get particular traits for the latter to work, and feedback is trivial to circumvent.

I agree it’s not the most ideal counter, but with the amount of lb rangers atm it has been working a treat.
The majority are playing it very predictably, pop quickness, then rapid fire. Soon as you see quickness on there bar then use mirror and watch em land an 8k+ on themself

robotempire.2451:

The reflect is just way too short (2s), and a heal is just way too valuable to use for a moment of reflection IMO. It’s really, really inefficient.

I got to disagree on this one. I’m using Mirror as my main heal since over a year now. It might not compete with the healing value of Ether Feast – which by the way isn’t that great in large scale fights anyway since it is hard to keep up the illusions. Mirror can mitigate a very high amount of projectile damage which easily makes up for the lower healing value. People really underestimate this part. It saved my life uncountable times when used offensively against ranged enemies. It saved my life uncountable times when used defensively while escaping. It also has the second lowest cooldown which makes it very potent with on-heal effects.

I’m not saying Mirror is the best heal now. But when looking farther than the pure healing value it has a way better functionality and provides more flexibility than most other heals.

I feel like this isn’t the conversation we had when we knew Mimic was being changed in the first place…

My problem with the new Mimic is that it’s such a wasted chance.

We already have pretty good boon control with Arcane Thievery (which could still use a buff! hint hint), Null Field, Disenchanter and 1H Sword.
And to top it off, I thought Necromancers were supposed to be better at boon/condition control than everyone else?

Ideas I’d like for Mimic:

Keep the boon-focus

• Echo returned. Steals boons, saves them. Can be discharged during the CD with Echo, can target self.
• Can also use it the other way around. Target a friendly target, will copy conditions to Echo. Echo will then apply them to an enemy target.

Make it ability focused

• Copies the next non-weapon skill used. CD is 30s + whatever the other skill has. Copy needs to be used within the original skill’s CD.

Make it about illusions

• Spawns a Mimic next to you, a clone which uses all your equipped abilities, though none cause any effect. It also dodges, constantly moves and circles your current target and has a very unpredictable movement pattern, causing lots of noise. When you shatter this clone, the CD on Mimic is reduced by 10s.
• When targeted on an enemy, Mimic spawns next to them
• Mimic has high HP, shows all boons, conditions, everything (nothing has any actual effect).

MailMail.6534:

I feel like this isn’t the conversation we had when we knew Mimic was being changed in the first place…

It was the conversation we were having in my guild. I just happened to see this thread while I was raging about it in WvW so I chimed in.

Old mimic would have been so useful now. Yes, it was situational, but this one is more so. It’s just a less versatile version of arcane thievery, and there can’t be more than a handful of situations where it’s better to choose mimic over arcane thievery.