Guild Wars 2

Give us back illusion summons even if the attacks themselves cant connect.

The illusions left over serve as a resource to be used for utilities.

We don’t just lose the damage from the initial attack, we lose any passives from having those illusions active (other professions have signets for this that can’t be killed!), and the ability to shatter for a second attack or a defense.

That’s 3 (THREE!!) abilities lost from a single blind, dodge, block, or invulnerability compared to one from everyone else, and all other professions still have access to ALL DEFENSES when their opponent blocks! (if you lose the warden due to this, you end up losing projectile reflect for the whole group, too! so THREE is an UNDERSTATEMENT)

I won’t even touch the magnitude of the injustice that is the failure to summon an AOE Phantasm just becuase the ONE target you selected pulls any of these out of his hat.

ANet’s devs have gone OVER THE LINE drawing a simplistic false equivalency between phantasms and attacks.

Except this is not the same. For every other class the attack still comes out.

If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.

If a Thief uses steal and the opponent rolls, the Thief still ends up behind the opponent (In fact the Thief can steal regardless of any status effect on him).

If a Mesmer uses Warden and the opponent has Aegis, I hope you weren’t planning on it reflecting projectiles because now the attack won’t even appear.

In fact I can’t think of anything else that is like this. Does an Engineer’s turrets not spawn if he’s out of range? Does a Ranger not evade attacks with his third Greatsword attack if he’s blinded? Does a Mesmer not get his whirl combo finisher if he doesn’t have line of sight? Oh wait, he doesn’t because the attack doesn’t happen at all if the phantasm doesn’t come out.

No other class can have their attack “not happen” unless they are interrupted. Essentially rolling, blinding, aegis, evasion, ect… now all “interrupt” the Mesmer preventing them from even attacking with 20% of their attacks.

All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.

Embolism.8106:

All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.

BS they were.

my phantasms and illusions always came out, then failed to hit, but were still THERE to afford me distortion or daze in a pinch.

The failure to summon one removes our ability to generate the primary resource used for our most important abilities.

no other profession in the game is crippled in this way. No other profession in this game gets denied more than a single attack per blind.

Agreed. I loved my mesmer, but I think I’m going to play an alt until this gets fixed. It was hard enough to get the setup we needed to be effective….for the love of God I can’t figure out why this was soooooo OP before.

anet doesn’t know how to fix/nerf, they just kill a certain skill or whole class (Paragon in gw1) and pretty much mesmer in gw2’s wvw.

Embolism.8106
All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.

No….you could still summon the illusion…the illusion’s attacks were interrupted, yes, but not the actual generation of the illusion. I think they should be treated like pets and not like attacks. You can’t block necros, rangers, and theives from generating their pets why are mesmers blocked from doing so?

Mek.2947:

Agreed. I loved my mesmer, but I think I’m going to play an alt until this gets fixed. It was hard enough to get the setup we needed to be effective….for the love of God I can’t figure out why this was soooooo OP before.

Just because you was able to attack somebody across a stronghold wall in WvW with the berserker
Everyone was whinning about that, so we have the nerf, and now, its really really BAD without this ability of spawning a fantasm without having the target in the line of sight.

So instead of manage smartly the problem IN WvW ( ONLY ) and IN the case of the stronghold attack, they just nerfed everything with a chainsaw like they were already doing in GW1…

Note how bad is the “skill update” they didnt even solve the portal exploit / problem in WvW.
Increase the reload wont change anything…

For god….

I know people were making it out like iBerserkers were bringing keeps down to their knees…like how kitten hard is it to kill an phantasm.

When I’m blinded, Illusions simply fail to conjure. This had always been the case for me with at least Phantasmal Warden and Phantasmal Swordsman, which were the Phantasms I had used in PvE. In PvP I don’t use Phantasms often so I cannot comment.

The point Anet is trying to make is that Illusions are not pets, they are spells cast on the opponent’s mind: hexes if you will: that could be removed by destroying its physical manifestation.

Mek.2947:

Embolism.8106
All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.

No….you could still summon the illusion…the illusion’s attacks were interrupted, yes, but not the actual generation of the illusion. I think they should be treated like pets and not like attacks. You can’t block necros, rangers, and theives from generating their pets why are mesmers blocked from doing so?

1) Thief pets have large cooldowns, low durations, and are easy to kill

2) Same with necro pets, except for the added fact that necro pets have godawful AI.

3) Rangers keep their pets out constantly and they rely on these pets for 45% of their damage. They don’t teleport to their targets, instead they have to chase them down and hope they stand still (ranger pets can’t hit moving targets).

Mesmers had these nerfs coming.

Division.9618
Mek.2947:
Embolism.8106
All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.
No….you could still summon the illusion…the illusion’s attacks were interrupted, yes, but not the actual generation of the illusion. I think they should be treated like pets and not like attacks. You can’t block necros, rangers, and theives from generating their pets why are mesmers blocked from doing so?
1) Thief pets have large cooldowns, low durations, and are easy to kill
2) Same with necro pets, except for the added fact that necro pets have godawful AI.
3) Rangers keep their pets out constantly and they rely on these pets for 45% of their damage. They don’t teleport to their targets, instead they have to chase them down and hope they stand still (ranger pets can’t hit moving targets).
Mesmers had these nerfs coming.

yeah um…point 1 – Our phantasms have large cooldowns, and are easily killed

point 2 – hmmm godawful AI…never happened to a Mesmer!

point 3 – We rely on our phantasms and illusions for our damage/utility/survivability. The only phantasm that “teleported” to its target was the iberzerker…after that it had to chase after it. Warden appears next to the target too but it’s not mobile. As the OP said…they didn’t fix anything but they screwed us with a blind now taking out 3 abilities from us at once. What other class is denied three skills from one blind?

Division.9618:

Mek.2947:

Embolism.8106
All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.

No….you could still summon the illusion…the illusion’s attacks were interrupted, yes, but not the actual generation of the illusion. I think they should be treated like pets and not like attacks. You can’t block necros, rangers, and theives from generating their pets why are mesmers blocked from doing so?

1) Thief pets have large cooldowns, low durations, and are easy to kill

2) Same with necro pets, except for the added fact that necro pets have godawful AI.

3) Rangers keep their pets out constantly and they rely on these pets for 45% of their damage. They don’t teleport to their targets, instead they have to chase them down and hope they stand still (ranger pets can’t hit moving targets).

Mesmers had these nerfs coming.

Theyre not just sources of damage. They are a fully-fledged resource that are REQUIRED for more than half of our arsenal.

Most of the utilities provided by SIGNETS for everyone else depend upon us having illusions up. Half of our DEFENSES depend upon us having illusions up. Half of our CONDITION APPLICATION depends upon us having illusions up. Half of our GROUP BUFFS depend upon us having illusions up.

being robbed of illusions generation by treating it as a normal attack denies us not only that one ability, but any passive provided by the illusions AND the next ability we need to use.

That’s TRIPLE PENALTY and the removal of of a resource we depend upon.

How would you like it if your guardian, necro, or thief’s signets, wells, and symbols could not be used while they’re blinded or their enemy has a ward, block, or dodge active?!

If you read this and still believe this is a fair change, I think you and your —entire--extended—family— need to contract terminal illness.

The thing with the other pets they’re either unbound summons/core mechanics/or something that was suppose to stay somewhat permanent. Phantasms are basically our spells, so bringing it out is an attack. And like any other attack they should obey the same rules as other player’s attacks.

Course now they need to fix iZerker’s spin count.

You’re bringing out an attacker yes, but the person is not suffering damage until it is actually out and attacking. If it truly were an attack by summoning it, then I should be suffering retaliation and reflection damage just by summoning it before it attacks if my opponent has those buffs. crap…i probably just gave the devs another stupid idea…..

Division.9618:

Mek.2947:

Embolism.8106
All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.

No….you could still summon the illusion…the illusion’s attacks were interrupted, yes, but not the actual generation of the illusion. I think they should be treated like pets and not like attacks. You can’t block necros, rangers, and theives from generating their pets why are mesmers blocked from doing so?

1) Thief pets have large cooldowns, low durations, and are easy to kill

2) Same with necro pets, except for the added fact that necro pets have godawful AI.

3) Rangers keep their pets out constantly and they rely on these pets for 45% of their damage. They don’t teleport to their targets, instead they have to chase them down and hope they stand still (ranger pets can’t hit moving targets).

Mesmers had these nerfs coming.

Have you attacked a phantasm lately? They die at so much as a cough. Thief and Necro pets are weak, but they still take a few hits to kill.
Also you don’t think phantasms/shatters don’t make up more than 45% of a mesmer’s damage? Ranger pet attacks don’t hit moving targets but they can still attack faster, more consistently, and soak up more damage than phantasms.
Not only that, but Necros and Rangers have their pets out constantly which means they don’t have to summon a new one every time you kill your target which more than makes up for their long cooldowns. Even thief pets last for more than one kill.

AsteriskCGY.5931:

And like any other attack they should obey the same rules as other player’s attacks.

Then all phantasms should be given invulnerability until it makes at least one attack. Just like other players’ attacks, if the target does not dodge, block or use invulnerability skill, phantasms should always hit. You don’t see other classes’ attacks fail to connect if the target has not avoided it, so why should ours?

This is the problem with the latest patch. Not only can our phantasm “attack spell” be dodged/blocked/neutralised by invulnerability,(like all skills) but it also has an extra weakness of being cancelled completely if the phantasm dies before it attacks. The tradeoff is of course we get an illusion spawned which is a huge part of the mesmer identity of shattering and cloning. Now this patch has made it even harder to keep the already overly fragile illusions summoned so that mesmers can actually use them.

Taking a WvW camp solo is so much more of a pain since the patch. Those chain blinding scouts were almost the end of me when they put a bunch of my Illusion summoning skills on cool down with nothing for me to show of it. If I wasn’t using a Grandmaster trait (Illusionary Persona) I would have been completely denied of my class mechanics and many of my traits, due to some stupid chain blind.

I can’t wait to see Thieves taking advantage of chain blinding Mesmers now…. if I knew that Thieves were going to be better Mesmers than actual Mesmers, then that may have influenced my initial class choice.

Surbrus.6942:

If I wasn’t using a Grandmaster trait (Illusionary Persona) I would have been completely denied of my class mechanics and many of my traits, due to some stupid chain blind.

I can’t wait to see Thieves taking advantage of chain blinding Mesmers now…. if I knew that Thieves were going to be better Mesmers than actual Mesmers, then that may have influenced my initial class choice.

Exactly.

My favorite scenarios so far are losing projectile block AND aoe from the warden on a whole pack just because the one you targeted blocked.

The Phantasm-change would only make sense if Phantasms were no longer killable by damage at all (or controllable), but in turn get a limited lifetime, say, 20s. You have to connect the attack, but then it’s completely unstoppable for it’s duration, done.

I don’t get it why they didn’t make those changes pvp only at least….mesmer is useless now in pve -_-

Embolism.8106:

….

The point Anet is trying to make is that Illusions are not pets, they are spells cast on the opponent’s mind: hexes if you will: that could be removed by destroying its physical manifestation.

This is the exact reason they must not be considered as attacks. You cannot mess with peoples’ minds because they use block or you are blinded?? Confusion should also not obey those rules either.

Without actual hexes Mesmer is less of a Mesmer..or we should have real hexes then?

I don’t see this as a major problem honestly, how many times do you get blinded? How many times do you get blocked? Invulnerable only lastst 5 sec max…
It only means patience & skill become more important.

NOTICE what debuffs are on you and act on it, NOTICE what your enemy is doing (blocking, invuln) and react.
> when blinded, hit with a normal skill and then cast your phantasm
> when you see an aegis/shield block, same thing…

The problem is those are not attacks at all.
There is always a way around..and this is not the point. Universal blockers (except invulnerability state) are usually a bad idea. Reducing skill types is also making gameplay more straightforward. Calling attack something that does not land damage right after casting is finished and does damage repeatingly and is called ‘phantasm’ is just wrong. Especially for Mesmers – where is the mesmerizing effect they are all about, hm? Blocking mind attack with physical protection skill, ye ..gg!

Clip.6845:

I don’t see this as a major problem honestly, how many times do you get blinded? How many times do you get blocked? Invulnerable only lastst 5 sec max…
It only means patience & skill become more important.

NOTICE what debuffs are on you and act on it, NOTICE what your enemy is doing (blocking, invuln) and react.
> when blinded, hit with a normal skill and then cast your phantasm
> when you see an aegis/shield block, same thing…

My thief is traited to ae blind every time I stealth, which is pretty much every 4-5 seconds. I also have multiple other ways to blind. I always avoided mesmers in the past due to the way my spec works against them. I actually rolled a mesmer to learn more about the class and because the class seemed so neat to play. I find this change to be class breaking, and I say this as a thief.

Azrael.1408:

Embolism.8106:

….

The point Anet is trying to make is that Illusions are not pets, they are spells cast on the opponent’s mind: hexes if you will: that could be removed by destroying its physical manifestation.

This is the exact reason they must not be considered as attacks. You cannot mess with peoples’ minds because they use block or you are blinded?? Confusion should also not obey those rules either.

Without actual hexes Mesmer is less of a Mesmer..or we should have real hexes then?

The justification is you could block the spell that, if it hits, will mess with your mind, and if the Mesmer is blinded they won’t be able to aim the spell properly.

Embolism.8106:

The justification is you could block the spell that, if it hits, will mess with your mind, and if the Mesmer is blinded they won’t be able to aim the spell properly.

But channeled multiple-hit abilities like blurred frenzy and confusing images still aim and damage properly with the exception of one hit.

Dasboba.1652:

Clip.6845:

I don’t see this as a major problem honestly, how many times do you get blinded? How many times do you get blocked? Invulnerable only lastst 5 sec max…
It only means patience & skill become more important.

NOTICE what debuffs are on you and act on it, NOTICE what your enemy is doing (blocking, invuln) and react.
> when blinded, hit with a normal skill and then cast your phantasm
> when you see an aegis/shield block, same thing…

My thief is traited to ae blind every time I stealth, which is pretty much every 4-5 seconds. I also have multiple other ways to blind. I always avoided mesmers in the past due to the way my spec works against them. I actually rolled a mesmer to learn more about the class and because the class seemed so neat to play. I find this change to be class breaking, and I say this as a thief.

Well, no offence, but you’re wrong. I too blind on stealth with my thief. And that’s the thing. It’s ON STEALTH. You need a target to cast a phantasm
As for the other ways to blind, they still dissapear after an initial hit with a different skill. The thief NPC in the mists is a good beginner training dummy to learn how to fight against blinders. I suggest some mesmers start with that.

Why are people finding an issue with this? A Phantasm is a SKILL. Like all skills in Guild Wars 2, it can be negated by any number of things. Phantasm’s should not be the exception!

Embolism.8106:

All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.

Not so sure that was true. I don’t recall having these problems with Duellist, Swordsman or Warlock. The only one I think that was true for was Warden, which was one of the reasons I disliked using it kitten your main damage source, projectile reflect and a shatter is negated by one blind). Now this applies to all phantasms. Nice going ANet.

This is especially unfair since block/blind etc does not negate other classes’ multiattacks. Does blind make whole death blossom fail? Does a blind make whole Hundred blades fail? Does a 1 sec invul or a dodge make whole Rapid Fire channel fail?

No it doesn’t. So why should phantasmal warden fail? Not to mention blind doesn’t make spirit weapons, turrets, minions or elementals fail. Do utility phantasms like Phantasmal Defender fail if the target dodges? If so that’s the most kitten thing ever.

ANet is hard at work to top their GW1 balancing failures. They might even top Dervish!

@Clip, I get what you’re saying. I guess my point was, on my thief, I’m usually only out of stealth a couple of seconds before I’m right back in (as long as my cnd continues to land). This got harder with the pistol bug introduced a few weeks ago. Now, that they fixed that with this patch, it should allow me to get back into stealth very often. With the blinds in place, I don’t see how a Mesmer will ever have time to cast a phantasm on me. This helps me greatly on my thief, as Mesmers were the one class I avoided in 1v1s.

Even before this patch, good thief could just drop smoke field, grab shortbow and force most mesmers to flee due to tons of blind finishers.

Dasboba.1652:

@Clip, I get what you’re saying. I guess my point was, on my thief, I’m usually only out of stealth a couple of seconds before I’m right back in (as long as my cnd continues to land). This got harder with the pistol bug introduced a few weeks ago. Now, that they fixed that with this patch, it should allow me to get back into stealth very often. With the blinds in place, I don’t see how a Mesmer will ever have time to cast a phantasm on me. This helps me greatly on my thief, as Mesmers were the one class I avoided in 1v1s.

No idea why the buffed thief stealth. I’ve had fights where out of 60 seconds the thief was visible maybe 5 total and not more than 1 second at one time. It’s getting ridiculous.

Phantasms already have many things that can negate them. Other classes aren’t denied their class mechanics, most of their traits, and basic tactics just because of the blind condition, or block/obstructed/etc, and the Phantasms were already made out of paper.

With your justifications (Lewis), a Guardian’s Virtues should fail if they are blinded or an enemy is blocking, maybe Ranger’s shouldn’t be able to commander their pets while blinded/obstructed/enemy is blocking, maybe Necros shouldn’t be able to use Death Shroud or summon minions while blinded/obstructed/blocked. Hell, why not even make stun breakers and teleports fail when you are blinded/obstructed/blocked?

Those were bug fixes and rightly fixed.

ManCaptain.3154:

Embolism.8106:

All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.

Not so sure that was true. I don’t recall having these problems with Duellist, Swordsman or Warlock. The only one I think that was true for was Warden, which was one of the reasons I disliked using it kitten your main damage source, projectile reflect and a shatter is negated by one blind). Now this applies to all phantasms. Nice going ANet.

This is especially unfair since block/blind etc does not negate other classes’ multiattacks. Does blind make whole death blossom fail? Does a blind make whole Hundred blades fail? Does a 1 sec invul or a dodge make whole Rapid Fire channel fail?

No it doesn’t. So why should phantasmal warden fail? Not to mention blind doesn’t make spirit weapons, turrets, minions or elementals fail. Do utility phantasms like Phantasmal Defender fail if the target dodges? If so that’s the most kitten thing ever.

ANet is hard at work to top their GW1 balancing failures. They might even top Dervish!

Sorry but your phantasm is 1 attack only. What the phantasm itself does is completely irrelevant.

PS

Oh wow, so mesmers now need to actually pay attention to being blinded or enemy using blocks ?! Preposterous!

Killyox.3950:

ManCaptain.3154:

Embolism.8106:

All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.

Not so sure that was true. I don’t recall having these problems with Duellist, Swordsman or Warlock. The only one I think that was true for was Warden, which was one of the reasons I disliked using it kitten your main damage source, projectile reflect and a shatter is negated by one blind). Now this applies to all phantasms. Nice going ANet.

This is especially unfair since block/blind etc does not negate other classes’ multiattacks. Does blind make whole death blossom fail? Does a blind make whole Hundred blades fail? Does a 1 sec invul or a dodge make whole Rapid Fire channel fail?

No it doesn’t. So why should phantasmal warden fail? Not to mention blind doesn’t make spirit weapons, turrets, minions or elementals fail. Do utility phantasms like Phantasmal Defender fail if the target dodges? If so that’s the most kitten thing ever.

ANet is hard at work to top their GW1 balancing failures. They might even top Dervish!

Sorry but your phantasm is 1 attack only. What the phantasm itself does is completely irrelevant.

PS

Oh wow, so mesmers now need to actually pay attention to being blinded or enemy using blocks ?! Preposterous!

Phantasm is 1 SKILL only. Not one attack.
If Phantasm skill is one attack, then so is Deadly Blossom, Lava Font, Flame bomb etc…

Surbrus.6942:

Phantasms already have many things that can negate them. Other classes aren’t denied their class mechanics, most of their traits, and basic tactics just because of the blind condition, or block/obstructed/etc, and the Phantasms were already made out of paper.

With your justifications (Lewis), a Guardian’s Virtues should fail if they are blinded or an enemy is blocking, maybe Ranger’s shouldn’t be able to commander their pets while blinded/obstructed/enemy is blocking, maybe Necros shouldn’t be able to use Death Shroud or summon minions while blinded/obstructed/blocked. Hell, why not even make stun breakers and teleports fail when you are blinded/obstructed/blocked?

Why are you bringing such a silly argument to the table ? Why are you comparing effects on player himself to attacks? Guardians attack will fail just the same with blind. His shield of absorption will not hit/kb anyone if he has blind while using it.

L2use blinds offensively and defensively while also avoiding them.

ManCaptain.3154:

Killyox.3950:

ManCaptain.3154:

Embolism.8106:

All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.

Not so sure that was true. I don’t recall having these problems with Duellist, Swordsman or Warlock. The only one I think that was true for was Warden, which was one of the reasons I disliked using it kitten your main damage source, projectile reflect and a shatter is negated by one blind). Now this applies to all phantasms. Nice going ANet.

This is especially unfair since block/blind etc does not negate other classes’ multiattacks. Does blind make whole death blossom fail? Does a blind make whole Hundred blades fail? Does a 1 sec invul or a dodge make whole Rapid Fire channel fail?

No it doesn’t. So why should phantasmal warden fail? Not to mention blind doesn’t make spirit weapons, turrets, minions or elementals fail. Do utility phantasms like Phantasmal Defender fail if the target dodges? If so that’s the most kitten thing ever.

ANet is hard at work to top their GW1 balancing failures. They might even top Dervish!

Sorry but your phantasm is 1 attack only. What the phantasm itself does is completely irrelevant.

PS

Oh wow, so mesmers now need to actually pay attention to being blinded or enemy using blocks ?! Preposterous!

Phantasm is 1 SKILL only. Not one attack.
If Phantasm skill is one attack, then so is Deadly Blossom, Lava Font, Flame bomb etc…

I am not talking about phantasm. Your phantasm = your attack. You attack with phantasm and it gets countered. Doesn’t matter how many attacks phantasm itself has.

Deadly Blossom hit s 3 times. You don’t cast duelist 3 times or make 3 weaker versions of it? If you made 3 weaker duelists then 1 would not appear. But you make 1 and it gets countered. It’s still too good that they persist if not killed and keep on damaging. No other class has this.

L2P Issue really. When i get blinded while droping down Big Ol’ Bomb it also fails miserably and NONE gets damaged/knocked. Do i complain ? No.

There seem to be really just 2 types of skill targeting in this game. Lock-target skills where you select a specific opponent or a ground target skill where you select the area to cast the spell. Lock-target skills are subject to blinds/dodges/etc..

Mesmer illusions/phantasms pre-patch seem to exist in a lock-target, but always cast state. Which makes sense because lore-wise they are supposed to be mental attacks, not subject to physical defenses.

The problem is with targeting, not with casting. We shouldn’t be able to target enemies without a LOS. I agree it’s stupid to be able to cast phantasms on enemies behind fortress walls. But it’s even more stupid to be able to target them in the first place.

ANet needs to fix two things about targeting. First they need to fix LOS. An enemy a few steps above me on stairs is not out of LOS. A huge Char hiding behind a tiny tree is not out of LOS. Second, they should make people lose target when an opponent leaves LOS for an amount of time (maybe 1-2 seconds).

Casting a phantasm is not an attack. I know people including dev are calling it an attack, but as the saying goes, just because you put lipstick on a pig doesn’t make it a woman. It’s still a pig. I don’t suffer retaliation or reflection damage when casting it, so why all of a sudden is everyone lumping the actual summoning of the phantasm as an attack? What damage is your character suffering from this “attack”? I don’t get why this is so hard for people to understand.

Oh you know, as long as they go the full distance, make the summoning also do damage / debuffs, and make the Phantasm unable to be destroyed by AEs and such (in return for having a limited duration, I suppose), that’s all fine.

Then I’m very happy to have it called an attack, sure.

Right now, it’s a summon to me.
Oh, here, this is good:
Phantasmal Defender: Summon an illusion that redirects half of the damage you would take to itself instead.

So yeah, blockable summon!

Next everyone will say that we should take retaliation and reflection damage every time they’re “attacked” by us summoning an illusion.

thieves are the most dominant class, you make no sense. if you want to fight with your hands tied behind your back dont drag me with u.

What this change does is turn nearly every one of the many status effects and actions which cause people to miss to be a full-on “interrupt” to ONLY mesmers.

When other people’s skills that cause combo fields, group might, etc miss, they still leave the field and the group might behind. Not mesmers, they’re special and therefore have to be penalized extra for being blinded, blocked, or dodged.

Hope you weren’t counting on warden block while the golem was invulnerable, because its not happening now, even though you don’t want the warden for the damage.

I’ve been pretty much unable to play wvw, as every time a warrior shows up or a guardian it’s basically time for my phantasms to all hit cooldown with their aegis and dodges.

Seriously, every time someone realizes there’s a mesmer in the crowd aegis goes up or everyone starts dodge rolling against me, or warrios whip up their long kitten block.

I went up against a tank build guardian last night and failed miserably due to only being able to summon up only 1 phantasm and 2 clones the entire fight. I’ve never complained about changes and nerfs to a class or build. This, however is a fundamental change on how a GW2 Mesmer plays. Our damage comes from phantasms, utility from clones. If its just a Mesmer in a 1v1 with little to no clones or phantasms, we lose.
I just want to know if this Is what Anet was looking for with the change results or if it wasn’t . I went for a support build so I could heal in W3. Could hardly do that because I couldn’t keep clones up for their regen. So between clone/phantasm summoning changes and the new los change having such an odd effect on summoning. I’m pretty much out of ideas.
I didn’t realize that the way clones and phantasms were summoned even needed changing. If you’re fighting a Mesmer, you know they’re going to summon a phantasm, so you dodge, ageis, invulnerability etc… The clone or phantasm misses but is still there to use for utility or the next attack. Now it doesn’t even get a clone or phantasm. No utility, no protection.
A Mesmer that can’t summon when needed is just a joke. Who would want a non dependable class on their side? This is how it went for me last night. " sorry guys, I was trying to heal and get regen for you but I couldn’t summon enough illusions." " guys, I’m dead again cause I didn’t have any illusions up for my F4 ability".
I consider myself above average player while using this class and I tried a few specs I had experience with to see if they would work any better. These are the results of my tests…. I’m shelving this class. It’s a non dependable liability. I’ll be rolling my ele from here on out until Mesmer gets fixed.

I haven’t pvp’d at all on my mes but even in pve i felt the effects of this nerf whilst using GS. It’s like having the rug pulled from under your feet.

My typical GS rotation is #3>>#4>>#2>>#1 until mob is too close for spatial surge then #5 and shatter as the mob makes it’s way back (sometimes i swap #4 and #2 if i know the mob will 1-shot the Izerker). If the mob happens to cross a tree, rock, log, or i happen to strafe too much or cross an obstacle the #2 does nothing (i’m too far away for the bounce back) and that’s 1/2 my shatter dmg gone, which makes the fight last longer. I won’t even go into our more-or-less total lack of AoE dmg outside staff use, as there is nothing to shatter (which is our main source of aoe dmg).

Shame, cos i was rather enjoying my made-of-paper tricksy mes, but maybe i’ll leave it at 55 and work on my necro more, or perhaps roll a class with some combo finishers…(i’m looking at you, rangers and warriors).