So many redundant utilities

So many redundant utilities

in Mesmer

Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Who uses the phantasm utilities outside maybe defender? Who uses mimicry? Who uses Mantra of Pain (which, btw, does about a mainhand sword autoattack in terms of damage).

Phantasm utilities won’t be used, because their uptime isn’t that great when illusions are getting one or two shot by mobs in fractals with conal attacks. Illusion uptime in PvE and WvW is horrible, even with signet of Illusions. Mesmers rely heavily on shatters, so they won’t hold back on shattering just to keep the phantasm performing its function.

Mantras outside Mantra of Recovery and Resolve are horrible. Distraction should be a 2 sec daze. Pain needs to do significantly more damage, especially in PvE if you want it used at the opportunity cost of 3.5 sec cast times interrupting autoattacks. Concentration lasts too little.

The signets are truly horrible. Inspiration gives some random boon every 10 seconds when the proc should be every 5 seconds (it’s like nothing is learned from the undesirability of engineer random elixirs). Midnight gives passive boon duration to the class with arguably least access to boons. Signet of Illusion translates into maybe an illusion dying to 3 or two hits instead of two or one.

On my other classes, the utilities are DIFFERENT. On my mesmer, the utilities are a variant of condition removal, a stun breaker, or reflection with the exception of portal. Shadow Refuge keeps stacking stealth, heals, and has 30 seconds LESS cooldown than the crappy Veil of Invisibility, which doesn’t stack stealth anymore, provides a short stealth duration and no healing.

On Jonathan Sharp’s outline of class design, the mesmer design is puzzling. So we’re supposed to rely on illusions that just do damage for effects, yet those illusions have horrible health and susceptibility to AoE, of which there is an abundance on dungeons and WvW?

Cry of Frustration is still weak, the scepter is weak, the torch is weak, the warden is stationary and dies the moment mobs aggro on him (in some dungeons he doesn’t even last 2 seconds channeling his skill before a mob kills it with a swing or two).

They said this patch would seek to create more viable builds, but all I see is the duelist still doing the damage of greatsword warrior’s autoattack crit, the Berserker still missing his attacks, and buffs to an underwater combat most people don’t want to participate in (due to mobs underwater having too much HP and combat in general feeling slower, our useful utilities like null field not allowed underwater, and for some classes no elite options).

Mesmer was supposed to have crowd control and interrupts like in GW1, but now in GW2 classes like the hammer warrior and the engineer and the elementalist greatly overshadow him. All I’m to a group as a mesmer is a Time Warp and Portal bot. I don’t do the damage of a warrior, the aoe of an elementalists, the bunkering of a guardian or ele, or the CC of an engineer. My burst relies on the uptime of very fragile illusions who are swiped down the moment they come up in PvE, with a ramp up that athief achieves in 2 button presses of Steal and Backstab. (and it’s fine in PvE for thieves to deal that damage, I don’t care, but I have to jump through so many more hoops just to accomplish a lesser version of what other classes do).

I’d like for my mesmer to be good at something other than giving the group time warp and portals. Stealth rezzing is useless in PvE since bosses and mobs stack aoe on downed players anyway and the end result is you’ll die trying to rez even if stealthed.

I’m tired of this class being undertuned in PvE because of sPvP whining keeping changes to the class in the backburner.

(edited by Zenith.7301)

So many redundant utilities

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Posted by: Hockmed.9417

Hockmed.9417

I think the problem is two-fold.

1. If they let mesmers truly do what their vision said they want mesmers to do, noobs and bads would never be able to beat one. It’s hard enough picking traits and utilities on your own, let alone actually learning how to play with more than 3 buttons. Even ignoring the fact that the mesmer was arguably one of the most difficult but rewarding professions in gw1, it still took a long time for anet to grow some backbone and stand up to the crying and whining and make people actually learn how to play against one.

2. They are trying to balance like wow – everything at the same time. They are still hesitant to balance each category of the game seperately – and we all know that is the only way to make it work. Yes, a few skills have been separated for spvp/tpvp and the rest, but it’s not enough. They figured out a good way to do it in gw1, they just have to learn from what they did wrong with it and get it right here.

Mesmer is still a powerful class – I’m not a pro by any means, but I can get out of almost any situation in pve. Pvp and wvw I’m not as experienced with do to system limitations and time, but I can see where there would be issues. Hopefully Anet will actually start standing behind their statements and follow their vision with a little backbone.

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Posted by: Fay.2735

Fay.2735

Just wanted to point out that I love using mantra of pain with power/heal mantra builds That said yes there are a lot of utilities there that I would rarely choose to put on my bar because they are so incredibly situational. For example Mimic, Veil (why use veil if you have mass stealth and decoy).

I’d be far more inclined to equip blink, feedback, nullfield, mantra of resolve, portal, decoy (depending on whether its pve or pvp settings and whether or not I’m alone or in a group, sometimes varying between certain dungeon encounters).

•— Fay Everdunes | Fay Erduna | Lilyfay (Fay.2735) — Mesmer/Revenant — [NA]FA — 8k±Hrs Played —•
Have you heard of the city? The ancient uru? Where there was power to write worlds

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Posted by: Nuka Cola.8520

Nuka Cola.8520

Yes it sucks but look at mesmer traits. 3/4 of them are a useless joke and elites? Mesmer has two elite, TW and MI…. yay for two elite skills when you could use way over 100 in gw1… Skills and traits in general sucks and so does two mesmer weapons.

Fact: every Thief tells you to “l2p” when the subject is to nerf stealth.

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Posted by: Qelris.6901

Qelris.6901

I like Mimic, though I only use it in WvW.

iWarden is decent, though being stationary is annoying, but its great damage and projectile reflection/absorption makes me forget that. If it dies within 2s, then you probably used it at the wrong moment. Especially now with 0.25s delay instead of 1s. I love him so much now.

But yeah, I agree, our utilities are redundant.

@Fay: I actually prefer Veil over Mass Invisibility.

@Nuka: Our elites are TW and Moa. MI isn’t worth the elite slot, but I guess it’s nice for extra stealthing.

I’m only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.

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Posted by: Fay.2735

Fay.2735

@Fay: I actually prefer Veil over Mass Invisibility.

I find it imprecise, people love to miss it entirely + it’s a dead give away that you’ve used stealth rather than temporal curtain.

It’s only 3 second stealth compared to 5 for MI + it guarantees everyone near you gets stealth and at least with decoy you distract your enemy away from you + breaks stuns so you can be of more use to your encounter by putting down that nullfield/feedback you equipped in stead.

That’s just my experience and opinion of veil, I can think of little few situations where it’s truly useful and superior to MI and decoy. I just feel it’s a waste of utility slot.

As for mimic it can be a fun little gimmicky thing but it’s incredibly situational. Like I love using it on those risen that pull you in at orr, then you use that ability to pull them to you, it’s quite amusing. But that’s about it… amusing.

•— Fay Everdunes | Fay Erduna | Lilyfay (Fay.2735) — Mesmer/Revenant — [NA]FA — 8k±Hrs Played —•
Have you heard of the city? The ancient uru? Where there was power to write worlds

(edited by Fay.2735)

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Posted by: Embolism.8106

Embolism.8106

Veil is actually 4s of stealth, and you can run across it again after your stealth ends (provided you don’t break it and get Revealed) to stealth again. Even so I too prefer Mass Invisibility over Veil, mainly because Mass Invisibility doesn’t take up a Utility slot: funnily enough I value Utility slots far more than I do the Elite slot.

There’s no reason why you can’t take both however if you’re serious about cloaking allies.

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Posted by: Skribbl.7684

Skribbl.7684

New player, and mostly pve minded, reporting in. Have played engie to 80, warrior is currently in its 40s, and I have an ele on the side I play as well.

Mesmer, for me, is a constant source of headaches and utter violent frustration due to its inability to operate even half effectively as my other characters. My engineer rips through any foes, and my warrior, simply put, feels immortal.

:( and as much as the class makes me curse and jump up and down, I cant shelf her.

Ralek Manatech – Engineer
Kaithlynia – Mesmer
Fort Aspenwood

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

Well the whole thing is very simple:
We have a few extremely powerful gamechangers. Portal, Feedback, Time Warp. Those make our other utility skills and traits weak, as if they were all buffed to be useful, we’d dominate too much in total, Feedback alone would already make sure of that.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Midius.6501

Midius.6501

I generaly agree with Zenith. Most of our utilities are in most situations crap. But if you have the right moment for them they can be extremly cool. But this is so unreliabel that you either have to swap your utilities evry 5 seconds or end using the most general one that wont make any difference so. But Signets and Matras are all crap the only time I use one of them is the stability mantra in Jumping Puzzle Darkroom.

I’m playing WvW so i got Feedback (love it ^^) and portal at my uslots. The third utility im mostly changing a lot mot of the time Blink or Veil.

As a conclusion about our utilitys I would say that we have some very decent and powerfull utilities but also some very crappy things that need buffing to even considered worth a uslot. (For exaple the iDefender he has so less live the effekt of his damage draining will only last 1 or maybe 2 hits. Thats weeker then 2 seconds of ptrotection so why use him…)

About Veil and MI
MI is the worst Skill we have when you want to cloak. You got Decoy to make yourself invisible over a decent Time and we got Veil to cloak as much people we want. And THEN we got MI cloaking 5-10 ppl (dunno know exactly).
So why should I even consider to use MI, for massinvisibility veil is much stronger becouse of no limitation of numbers und decoy has stunbreaker.

greetz

.::edit: Feedback is strong, but not to strong. The wall from guardians are way stronger::.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

So why should I even consider to use MI, for massinvisibility veil is much stronger becouse of no limitation of numbers und decoy has stunbreaker.

Easy, because Veil takes up a utility slot. MI does not. Sure, Time Warp can be horrendously strong, but people are very good at denying you it’s use. So I’d rather slow Decoy, Feedback, Null Field, Blink, that stuff. :P

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: TheComet.6471

TheComet.6471

I can defend most of these skills you bring up <_<

-Mantra of Pain: people use this with the restorative mantras for constant AoE healing to the group. Now with the 3s chant time, it’s more effective than before.
-Mantra of Confusion: This is designed for interrupts, not long-term daze, and it works beautifully on that. This is a Must-Have for me when running AC.
-Mantra of Concentration: it could use work, yes, but it’s a stun breaker you can use twice before cooldown.
-Signet of Inspiration: The power behind this is in it’s active, not the passive. Now with 3x might per shatter, you can give huge amounts of boons to your team.
-Signet of Midnight: it’s ANOTHER stun breaker, plus it’s basically free Blind+Confuse on everyone near you when traited.
-Signet of Illusions: again, the active. it resets your shatters. INCREDIBLY power.
-Cry of Frustration: This is a much more defensive pvp oriented skill, you need traiting for it’s maximum effect. I personally use it to pile on a huge amount of retaliation on myself while putting 2x confusion on a target per illusions.

Now as far as your main gripes, while yes we are usually on the short end of the stick, we can compensate by working with our combo fields (which for some reason everyone seems to ignore).
Torch could use a little work but you need to remember the phantasm for torch is a SUPPORT phantasm, use it to gain retaliation and put a little confusion down and not for straight damage. The Prestige is a leap finisher and a blast finisher in one

The Duelist is okay on it’s own, but that phantasm combos on EVERY SHOT, and with sharper images and the fury trait, will stack ungodly amounts of bleed from critical hits.

Scepter is….scepter. I agree it’s not good still and the autoattack needs work. People use this to bomb 3 and switch out, which is unfortunate.

I’m going to stop now before I go out of hand, but imo you’re making a bigger deal out of something you seem to just not know how to use. Granted you had some valid points, you’re blowing most of this out of proportion.

Kaineng – Co-Leader of Skrittical Hits
Sybol – Healing Bunker Charr Mesmer (80)
Dresdon Honorclaw – Zerk All-Ranged Charr Warrior | Hawke Fullmoon – Melee Ranger

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Posted by: Qelris.6901

Qelris.6901

@Comet:
I think the main thing about Signet of Inspiration is the disappointment of our “reliable swiftness” promised by Jon. That’s not reliable at all. Is this only the beginning of our reliable swiftness or were we trolled? Future will tell..

I never complained about our Swiftness sources, but when I’m promised something more reliable, I’m expecting something more reliable.

Not a fan of Signet of Illusions, but it has its use I guess. Did they fix the illusion healt bonus to be granted exactly when they are up? or there is still a down time?

I agree with everything else you said.

@Fay:
That’s true. MI may be easier to use most of the times, but I still prefer Veil. Personal preference I guess. The only reason I don’t use Veil is because it is an Utility.

I’m only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.