Guild Wars 2

Not flaming, simply a curious thief here.

Is it possible to make a PU mesmer that uses the new spec for an obscene amount of stealth, and still do good damage?

Just wondering how much I should give up on thief and just play mesmer, considering the amount of flak thieves catch for perma stealth etc.

The new spec sure can get more stealth, but…Mesmer was already dangerously close to permastealth with The Pledge (torch trait) still bugged (adding waayyyy too much cdr).

Chronomancer has a lot of cool toys, but it starts at a dps deficit vs Illusions/Dom/Duel, so if you can hit near-perma-stealth without it, you’ll probably do better.

Lastly, obscene amounts of stealth actually isn’t as cool as you might think, outside WvW. Pretty sweet inside WvW, but in sPvP most good mesmers are already using BD or CI instead of PU. And in PvE, PU adds 0 dps, so the only value to it is for skips…which thieves are already better at.

Note that one reason thieves love lots of stealth is because they gain bonuses from being in stealth. Backstab, condi cleanse, initiative regen, reduced damage, etc., all make it really nice to be able to stay in stealth as long as you need to to get your burst off.
Mesmers only get some small boon generation via PU (both its competitors provide more), and no other benefit than the element of surprise.
You can switch if you like, but I think you’ll be disappointed when you don’t get all the perks of stealth that thief gets.

Mesmer is fun though, so I don’t think you’ll dislike the class.

If you want to take PU and still do strong damage, you have one choice for traiting: Dom/duel/chaos. Chaos has PU. Dueling has DE and blinding dissipation. Domination has CS, shattered concentration, and mental anguish.

So, if you want chrono, you have to drop either domination or dueling. Dropping domination means no stun, no boon strip, and no amped shatter damage. Dropping dueling means no dodge clones, no fury, and no blinds on shatter.

Essentially…no. It’s not possible to make a PU chrono build that still retains the strong damage and abilities of normal PU shatter. You’ll have a bunch of stealth, and then either really weak damage and control, or poor clone generation, lower crit chance, and no blind access.

Fay.2357:

Essentially…no. It’s not possible to make a PU chrono build that still retains the strong damage and abilities of normal PU shatter. You’ll have a bunch of stealth, and then either really weak damage and control, or poor clone generation, lower crit chance, and no blind access.

Torch has blind and he can somewhat mitigate the clone generation with Illusionary Reversion

But you are still going to loose some damage.

From what I saw if you run the Illusionary reversion and the phantasm resummoning trait you could keep clones up at a decent enough rate to shatter…

However I just don’t see the point, dueling is already better for shatter builds. I guess in a phantasm build it might be good or a hybrid shatter/phantasm. I don’t really think it would be quite as awesome as you’d imagine, sitting in stealth and watching phantasms annihilate people though.

If you even mention interrupts and PU in the same sentence then someone will be “making friends” with you very soon…

So I just don’t see the value of such a build and any form of bunker…well a bunker in stealth is the worst bunker. I just can’t see a role a chrono PU high invis mesmer would fill other than dragging a team down.

If you use Chronophantasma and Illusionary Reversion, you’re going to overwrite a Phantasm.

I sensed a storm when I read that title, But never mind false alarm~

Khyber.1284:

I sensed a storm when I read that title, But never mind false alarm~

I’ll be “that guy”… mesmers can permastealth with 30s of stealth stacked now, they are going to be virtually impossible to sweep out of keeps now if they spec for it.

No. Don’t get too obsessed with PU.
Go for dom/duel/chrono, much better in a real PvP game.

Fay.2357:

If you want to take PU and still do strong damage, you have one choice for traiting: Dom/duel/chaos. Chaos has PU. Dueling has DE and blinding dissipation. Domination has CS, shattered concentration, and mental anguish.

So, if you want chrono, you have to drop either domination or dueling. Dropping domination means no stun, no boon strip, and no amped shatter damage. Dropping dueling means no dodge clones, no fury, and no blinds on shatter.

Essentially…no. It’s not possible to make a PU chrono build that still retains the strong damage and abilities of normal PU shatter. You’ll have a bunch of stealth, and then either really weak damage and control, or poor clone generation, lower crit chance, and no blind access.

True, but this won’t stop some players from losing to it and calling it OP.

Schadenfreude is our Friend.6950:

Khyber.1284:

I sensed a storm when I read that title, But never mind false alarm~

I’ll be “that guy”… mesmers can permastealth with 30s of stealth stacked now, they are going to be virtually impossible to sweep out of keeps now if they spec for it.

Indeed. 2 mesmers are enough to do this all night long.

It takes 2 mesmers to permastealth, fyi.

Esplen.3940:

It takes 2 mesmers to permastealth, fyi.

I think I could do it with a chronomancer. I was almost there with The Pledge.

Meh I’d rather do it with 2 PD thieves, can stealth much easier, for longer and murder nearly anyone that tries to kill you.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Esplen.3940:

It takes 2 mesmers to permastealth, fyi.

I think I could do it with a chronomancer. I was almost there with The Pledge.

Chrono/Illu/Chaos, you could probably do it with Mimic Decoy PU and Prestige. I wouldn’t bother with Veil since it doesn’t add much although if you’re good at timing it, go for it.

I’d do the math but I don’t know the exact CDR off Pledge (roughly 5%, but roughly doesn’t quite cut it for theorycrafting and this isn’t something you I’d want to napkin math).

Esplen.3940:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Esplen.3940:

It takes 2 mesmers to permastealth, fyi.

I think I could do it with a chronomancer. I was almost there with The Pledge.

Chrono/Illu/Chaos, you could probably do it with Mimic Decoy PU and Prestige. I wouldn’t bother with Veil since it doesn’t add much although if you’re good at timing it, go for it.

I’d do the math but I don’t know the exact CDR off Pledge (roughly 5%, but roughly doesn’t quite cut it for theorycrafting and this isn’t something you I’d want to napkin math).

You don’t need the exact percentage, you just need the final cooldown of The Prestige with 100% stealth. If you are successful, that will simply be the cooldown. If you are unsuccessful, the math will fail and you’ll get to a moment where you are out of stealth and have no stealth skills off cooldown.

Confirmed. I was unable to maintain 100% stealth without mimic, but I easily pulled it off with Mimic (I even made a bunch of mistakes on the rotation).

After watching WTS, do you guys srsly think mesmer stealth is OP anymore? Every meta class has find a way to get great sustainability. Stealth is just mesmer’s way of surviving now.

Exciton.8942:

After watching WTS, do you guys srsly think mesmer stealth is OP anymore? Every meta class has find a way to get great sustainability. Stealth is just mesmer’s way of surviving now.

pvp and wvw is a whole different game. Stealth in wvw is way more valuable than in pvp.

aspirine.6852:

Exciton.8942:

After watching WTS, do you guys srsly think mesmer stealth is OP anymore? Every meta class has find a way to get great sustainability. Stealth is just mesmer’s way of surviving now.

pvp and wvw is a whole different game. Stealth in wvw is way more valuable than in pvp.

I completely agree for wvw roaming. That’s why thief and mesmer have always been the best roaming class no question. But you can’t ask for serious balance for wvw roaming….

mesmer has perma stealth just saw a mesmer that had 30s of stealth on in wvw haha

I don’t really agree that mesmer was best for roaming outside of a condi PU build pre patch. Now it’s great as you can stealth up and gtfo if needed with 6s of stealth or 10s.

However a special mention needs to go out to trapper runes. These are rapidly becoming very annoying condition roaming runes for thieves and certainly rangers to spike condition you. Can get some pretty high stealth uptime on them too which is good for them.

Cool, thanks all for the input, and sorry for the possibly misleading title

I saw someone complaining about perma stealth mesmers in WvW and it seemed sensible to ask those who play the class rather than going off on one. By the sounds of things it’s nothing to worry about since a loss of damage is a fair trade off imo, you’re just getting the “perma stealth” qq thief normally gets.

Thanks again

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Esplen.3940:

It takes 2 mesmers to permastealth, fyi.

I think I could do it with a chronomancer. I was almost there with The Pledge.

Obligatory reminder that The Pledge is still giving twice as much recharge as it’s supposed to.

tobascodagama.2961:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Esplen.3940:

It takes 2 mesmers to permastealth, fyi.

I think I could do it with a chronomancer. I was almost there with The Pledge.

Obligatory reminder that The Pledge is still giving twice as much recharge as it’s supposed to.

More than*

Esplen.3940:

tobascodagama.2961:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Esplen.3940:

It takes 2 mesmers to permastealth, fyi.

I think I could do it with a chronomancer. I was almost there with The Pledge.

Obligatory reminder that The Pledge is still giving twice as much recharge as it’s supposed to.

More than*

Yeah, it’s somewhere around 4 1/2 – 5%

#NerfThePledge2015

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Not flaming, simply a curious thief here.

Is it possible to make a PU mesmer that uses the new spec for an obscene amount of stealth, and still do good damage?

Just wondering how much I should give up on thief and just play mesmer, considering the amount of flak thieves catch for perma stealth etc.

Well, pre-patch PU Mesmers were hated by most players (me included, i really don’t like seeing it unless i know the player using it needs it for practise), but at least they had an actual weakness in form of a lack of Stopping Power (Neither Power PU nor Condi PU had that), so you could pretty much just walk away when encountering them.

Well, that just changed with the Patch. Not only did A-net double the stealth Duration for some reason (they were probably only looking at PvE – like always, or some a-net dev thought playing PU builds was too unforgiving) – due to the Powercreep and the kinda overbuffed Traits, PU builds (doesn’t matter if Condi PU, Condi PU shatter or PU power shatter) actually got stopping power, the latter two comparable to that of an oldschool shatter pre-patch. And don’t forget the bugged Torch trait, which enables PU Mesmers to easily Hide in Keeps regardless the dozens of players looking for him :P

So thats a big “yes” to your first Question, although the damage might be a little lower than you are used to from you (probably) D/P Thief post-patch. Still, if the reason for you changing to mesmer is

Just wondering how much I should give up on thief and just play mesmer, considering the amount of flak thieves catch for perma stealth etc.

, then don’t, because honestly, PU Mesmers right now are pretty similar in that regard.
Hell, i refuse to run any of those overbuffed traits, and people still complain about me (ab)using too much “stelts and kitten clones” despite wielding no torch (meaning i’am limited to Decoy and MI), so if anything, you will get more Flak than before :P

Exciton.8942:

aspirine.6852:

Exciton.8942:

After watching WTS, do you guys srsly think mesmer stealth is OP anymore? Every meta class has find a way to get great sustainability. Stealth is just mesmer’s way of surviving now.

pvp and wvw is a whole different game. Stealth in wvw is way more valuable than in pvp.

I completely agree for wvw roaming. That’s why thief and mesmer have always been the best roaming class no question. But you can’t ask for serious balance for wvw roaming….

Roaming no, that is quite impossible. But it’s kinda weird a profession can stealth as long as mesmer AND have a skill that can port an entire zerg into a keep/tower.

aspirine.6852:

Exciton.8942:

aspirine.6852:

Exciton.8942:

After watching WTS, do you guys srsly think mesmer stealth is OP anymore? Every meta class has find a way to get great sustainability. Stealth is just mesmer’s way of surviving now.

pvp and wvw is a whole different game. Stealth in wvw is way more valuable than in pvp.

I completely agree for wvw roaming. That’s why thief and mesmer have always been the best roaming class no question. But you can’t ask for serious balance for wvw roaming….

Roaming no, that is quite impossible. But it’s kinda weird a profession can stealth as long as mesmer AND have a skill that can port an entire zerg into a keep/tower.

To be fair, it’s the torch trait that’s allowing it. Remove that or make the cool down hinge on being offensive (so -1s CD for each stack of burn you or a phantasm applies) and they problem will go away.

Even if you stacked all the stealth you had using MI,mimic, decoy, veil, torch etc you’re looking at

4+6+6+6+10 = 32s which if you had illusionists celerity would get you back to torch/decoy CD assuming only decoy has the reduced cool down.

That then puts you at another 6+6 =12s. So at 44s of stealth you have literally no defensive cool downs at all and must wait another 16s for the next skill to be off cool down and rotation.

Again this is filling your utilities with mimic, decoy, veil, MI and using a torch. You would have to not be in combat also to be able to switch out for portal.

With continuum shift you could perhaps get an extra decoy/torch out of it but you would effectively have all the combat potential of a wet noodle.

In comparison a thief can maintain permanent stealth uptime with SR, blinding powder and DP with SA line GM.

Additionally 1 thief can stealth themselves and 4 others permanently via blasting of smoke fields which is capped at 16 or 20s can’t remember and will only show up for 3s out of every cycle by a small red ring of smoke. While you would need multiple mesmers for that same job.

Who needs to port in a zerg when you can hide 5 people (assuming 20 sups each) on outer keep, build 2 super rams and flip it before white swords appear? Chances are no-one will be there outside of gold level servers to raise the alarm.