Guild Wars 2

Last time I checked and inform me if I’m wrong but i saw that mesmers were getting a nerf on vigor. When playing shatter this strongly reduces the amount of clones we can get out to shatter. It makes it so we have to only use our dodges to dodge deadly atks this is bad because with such low clone production it allows them to get cleaved down before we even have the chance to burst. Nerfing us in this way makes it so we have to either choose to do damage or live. hmmm thief can do both better. It’s just the way that the class is designed that we need clone generators aka vigor.

At the moment it looks like Anet have no idea what they want to do with this class. Some of the recent statements and bugs have been pretty ridiculous. It really seems that no one involved in balancing classes or developing material actually plays this class.

They don’t understand how it works or how to make it work. They don’t even seem to know the proper names for some of the skills.

Never mind.

Just remember how long it takes ANet to do anything in PvP.
The nerf might come in april…2015

I really hope a dev sees this it’s so frustrating.

Also with the upcoming sigil nerf if energy gets nerfed that’s hurting mesmer more then any other class. Severely.

Anet wanted to nerf deceptive evasion and we as a community pushed back and changed their mind. Many have similarly brought up concerns with critical infusion but it doesn’t appear they’re going to budge.

Anet knows what they’re doing with the nerf (whether it’s the right decision or not for us), as they made similar adjustments to vigor on crit traits for other classes. The problem is, I believe the nerf affects mesmers more detrimentally than others.

As with many of the other nerfs we’d had, I think we’ll have to play this out and deal with it the best we can. Many other things will be changing at the same time, such as the sigil/rune enhancements, so we’ll see what the landscape looks like post-patch.

They actually haven’t changed any other vigor on crit traits in other classes. The thing is mesmers have to have clones to put out damage. Less dodges means less clones and less survivability. We can’t be pushing out clones and dodge correct things if they bring the nerfs i have stated into effect. Like it’s one big circle. Take one thing out of the circle the circle is ruined.

Right, meant to say the plan is obvious to nerf these traits across most (if not all) classes.
Yeah you’re right in everything you say but unfortunately I don’t think there’s much we can do about it (like I said I’ve seen many folks try).

Maybe we’ll get one more shot when they officially announce all the March balance changes but I’m not holding my breath.

EDIT: I thought there was at least one class where a vigor trait was nerfed and it was ranger in the 12/10/13 patch.

I actually wouldn’t be too opposed if they nerfed vigor on-crit across the board, but I won’t deny that it will hurt us the most.

Cleeearly “Mesmers” and “Guardians” with Vigor is the problem here rolls eyes

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

At the moment it looks like Anet have no idea what they want to do with this class. Some of the recent statements and bugs have been pretty ridiculous. It really seems that no one involved in balancing classes or developing material actually plays this class.

They don’t understand how it works or how to make it work. They don’t even seem to know the proper names for some of the skills.

agreed. they really dont know how big such a change can actually affect a mesmer. i mean they also overreacted with the glamour nerf and made it completely non viable. meanwhile they are walking on eggshells when it comes down to warrior nerfs. (8% really?if the mesmer had healing signet it would have been nerfed by 25-30%).
after all the nerfs of phantasms, los(necros can still hit though walls, guards staff 1 can hit sige through the walls and gates, eles can destroy siege on wall and dragontooth hits siege behind gates, but mes got los and obstructed everywhere), bb, temporal curtain, chaosarmor,glamours, blinding befuddlement, tw,portal, underwater weapons,retal, etc

we have not gotten anything back. nothing to compensate. now we really are an ai class only , because everything eles got nerfed.
no wvw raid builds as everything we have is illusions and illusion traits. terrible aoe dmg for a light armor, 1v1 builds only and on top of that a ton of bugs caused mainly by ai.
they still think mantras are great and even buffed them and they are still clunky to use and dont really help in a raid at all.

they think mesmer is in a good state and coming from wvw i have to say, no, we are not at all. veilbot is not fun and having no real build is not fun either. we just cant keep the pressure up as illusions die in seconds, phantasms are either bugged out, get a full cd due to obstructed or los issues/bugs and on top of that we only get 1v1 attacks for duels while not having an option anymore to trait for wvw raids.

a light armor class should not be a duelist 1v1 class only, a light armor needs viable access to aoe and not ai and ai based aoe.

BoB.6082:

They actually haven’t changed any other vigor on crit traits in other classes.

Actually, they did nerf access to vigor for quite a few classes already.

Saturn.6591:

BoB.6082:

They actually haven’t changed any other vigor on crit traits in other classes.

Actually, they did nerf access to vigor for quite a few classes already.

Not vigor on crit.

I understand the issue, but I think they want people to be less ‘’glass canon’’ (the 20/20/0/0/30 or 10/30/0/0/30). Maybe this time, shatter players will use Vigorous Revelation. Beside that, you can always use Sigil of Energy. New builds incoming.

With the new sigils, runes and PvP changes, we don’t know what is coming, but it was my answer.

BoB.6082:

Saturn.6591:

BoB.6082:

They actually haven’t changed any other vigor on crit traits in other classes.

Actually, they did nerf access to vigor for quite a few classes already.

Not vigor on crit.

They nerfed them for guardians and mesmers, since it is a pretty serious problem when the two of the tankiest classes in the game also have access to infinitely spammable dodges just from taking a 5-point trait. It’s even worse for mesmers than guards because the mesmer vigor-on-crit trait is in their DPS line so you’re going to get it naturally just by speccing for DPS. At the guard has to take points out of his DPS lines (albeit only 5) to get their vigor on crit.

wait.

So I havent played for a while, but since when is Mesmer one of the tankiest classes in this game? O.o
Since the start of the GW2 beta, since now, I havent seen any team running a “tank / bunker mesmer”. Bunker Mesmer is probably as viable as Bunker thief. If not even less.

And plz dont mention PU Mesmers.The problem with those definitifly is not their amount of Vigor Regeneration.
In Addition, DE and the vigor trait were there since the launch of the game and Shatter Mesmers also exist since an whole eternity.
And now, suddenly this is ment to be overpowered?
Mesmer hasnt seen a buff for a very long time, while other classes became strong, but though, Mesmers is the one who is OP now?

Jackums.3496:

Then take the Ele, which currently lacks any significant survivability, and also relies on Evasive Arcana quite heavily in most builds. Nerfing their vigor access would be a totally unnecessary nerf to an already relatively weak profession.

They actually intended to nerf this one in the last balance patch, but then refrained from doing so due to community feedback.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

They nerfed them for guardians and mesmers, since it is a pretty serious problem when the two of the tankiest classes in the game also have access to infinitely spammable dodges just from taking a 5-point trait.

Currently Mesmers are one of the least tanky classes ingame. If you are referring to a certain condition PU tank I’d personally say that it does have a high survivability but does not classify as bunker or tank. It still is quite fragile because Mesmers have weak recoveries and requires a high amount of kiting. The survivability comes from stealth and not from Vigor. Vigor and stealth exclude each other since you can’t crit while stealthed.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

It’s even worse for mesmers than guards because the mesmer vigor-on-crit trait is in their DPS line so you’re going to get it naturally just by speccing for DPS. At the guard has to take points out of his DPS lines (albeit only 5) to get their vigor on crit.

Honor is as popular for Guardians as Duelling is for Mesmers. The additional 50 Precision Mesmers gain in comparison to Guardians hardly make a difference. You also got to consider that Guardians have easier access to area attacks which makes triggering the trait a lot easier even with less crit chance.

shimmerless.4560:

Vigorous Revelation isn’t really viable, at least in my opinion.

It shoud have its range buffed to match Shattered Conditions. Then it would be viable. Of course, you will have to consider if it is worth losing Shattered Concentration. If you are fighting boon heavy builds probably not. In other scenarios, especially in groups, your party will certainly welcome additional Vigor.

shimmerless.4560:

Of course I think Critical Infusion should just be left alone, at least for now, but if not, then why not just replace the trait placement of Critical Infusion with Vigorous Revelation and leave it at that?

And how would that help? It would aid Shatter Mesmers since they go for 20 Duelling most of the time anyway. But it screws over all other builds which do not focus on shattering that much. I personally would hate that change.

It sounds like some of you should just re-roll to another class. This nerf is going to gut the class correct? Then if that’s your opinion re-roll to something more your playstyle.

I’m not worried about this at all, but you should play classes that make you happy.

The vigor nerf was coming and you should have seen it miles away. They nerfed the engie perma vigor (almost), the ranger perma vigor and the thiefs vigor. I’m not sure about guard but if they havent done it they will. They simply didn’t want any class to have permanent acces to vigor so easily.

Plus they openly communicated that they don’t like perma-vigor independent of specific class balance, so any instance of it will probably go down the drain eventually.

EverythingEnds.4261:

wait.

So I havent played for a while, but since when is Mesmer one of the tankiest classes in this game? O.o
Since the start of the GW2 beta, since now, I havent seen any team running a “tank / bunker mesmer”. Bunker Mesmer is probably as viable as Bunker thief. If not even less.

And plz dont mention PU Mesmers.The problem with those definitifly is not their amount of Vigor Regeneration.
In Addition, DE and the vigor trait were there since the launch of the game and Shatter Mesmers also exist since an whole eternity.
And now, suddenly this is ment to be overpowered?
Mesmer hasnt seen a buff for a very long time, while other classes became strong, but though, Mesmers is the one who is OP now?

Right now they have:

1) High health and armor.
2) Permavigor just from attacking.
3) Absurd amounts of defensive cooldowns, plus multiple panic buttons, with no DPS cost
4) Outrageously good healing on par with the engineer’s.

The only other classes with comparable survivability are the guardian and engineer which is exactly the problem we’re trying to address here.

We’re talking PvE of course since he’s talking DPS and there’s no point in trying to measure that in a PvP format. Unless we’re not then, in which case lol.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Right now they have:

1) High health and armor.

Errr. Did you confuse Mesmers with Warriors?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

2) Permavigor just from attacking.

Does not exist in practice and ‘just from attacking’ underestimates the effort.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

3) Absurd amounts of defensive cooldowns, plus multiple panic buttons, with no DPS cost

Not sure what how to understand the cooldown thing.
Panic button-wise I got to disagree. F3 and F4 all come with a DPS cost.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

4) Outrageously good healing on par with the engineer’s.

Again, you got to confuse the Mesmer with a different class.
We are talking about Mesmers, right?

We’re talking PvE of course since he’s talking DPS and there’s no point in trying to measure that in a PvP format. Unless we’re not then, in which case lol.

Lol, whats even the point in talking about pve? And why would you need survivability in pve anyway? There’s reasons for people running full zerker. Exactly, because you don’t need survivability.

It’s K guys it’s a buff! Now Mesmer dosent have the “I’m obviously the real mesmer” boon!!!

Oh wait… No one falls for clones.

Daishi.6027:

It’s K guys it’s a buff! Now Mesmer dosent have the “I’m obviously the real mesmer” boon!!!

Oh wait… No one falls for clones.

What clones? One 3k auto attack melee swing from the enemy and they’re all dead.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Daishi.6027:

It’s K guys it’s a buff! Now Mesmer dosent have the “I’m obviously the real mesmer” boon!!!

Oh wait… No one falls for clones.

What clones? One 3k auto attack melee swing from the enemy and they’re all dead.

Clonedeathtraits \o/

BoB.6082:

Saturn.6591:

BoB.6082:

They actually haven’t changed any other vigor on crit traits in other classes.

Actually, they did nerf access to vigor for quite a few classes already.

Not vigor on crit.

Because the classes that have been nerfed don’t have vigor on crit traits? What a godawful argument.

Either way, they’re nerfing Guard as well next patch, and ele will probably get nerfed when it’s rebuffed back to the same level as other classes.