Guild Wars 2

Theres a topic in the engi forum of a guy abusing a new rune to stack alot of confusion on players with great results.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Rune-of-perplexity-Here-is-my-experience/first#post2696052

I know that the key to this success its the rapid stacking of alot of confusion. My mesmer has almost been more of the “Cant touch this” kind of set up rather than “Stop hitting yourself” kind.
Obviously this rune will be fixed before long, but I was wondering can mesmer who dont use this rune but still focus on applying confusion be just as effective?
And if not, why not?

Like all successful condition builds, everything comes down to amount of damage, and application.

So for mesmers, with our traits, skills, etc, there is a limit to what we can do in terms of application. In terms of damage, taking the one stat layout/rune setup means we lose something else.

The thing with perplexity runes is that, given certain classes and builds, you get A LOT of confusion application, while maintaining great condition damage, at the cost of very little. The duration is also very high on its base.

So confusion without perplexity runes has its limitations/drawbacks as a source of direct damage due to mechanical limitations. With perplexity runes those limitations are reduced, or bypassed entirely.

XelNigma.6315:

Theres a topic in the engi forum of a guy abusing a new rune to stack alot of confusion on players with great results.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Rune-of-perplexity-Here-is-my-experience/first#post2696052

I know that the key to this success its the rapid stacking of alot of confusion. My mesmer has almost been more of the “Cant touch this” kind of set up rather than “Stop hitting yourself” kind.
Obviously this rune will be fixed before long, but I was wondering can mesmer who dont use this rune but still focus on applying confusion be just as effective?
And if not, why not?

To answer your question, no, I don’t think they can. The rune in question is called Rune of Perplexity, I believe, and its entire focus is on confusion, with confusion duration (possibly bugged), confusion stacking, and confusion damage (condition damage). There is no other rune I know of that is so confusion based. My question to you would be: if you want to focus on confusion damage, why wouldn’t you take them? Frankly, without these runes, confusion isn’t a viable center for a build.
The key to this rune is the confusion on interrupt. 5 stacks for 10s is absolutely incredible. This allows any class with interrupts to have instant access to a huge amount of confusion. Mesmers have interrupts, so we benefit, and so too do other classes – e.g., engies, such as Koroshi.
I run these runes on a condi/interrupt build that I’ve tailored to fit them. And it’s insane. I can spike up to 15 confusion fairly easily. What makes these runes so unstoppable is the confusion on interrupt, without limits. In the name of balance, I would add an internal cooldown of at least 10 seconds. But it’s going to be fun while it lasts.

XelNigma.6315:

I was wondering can mesmer who dont use this rune but still focus on applying confusion be just as effective?
And if not, why not?

No. Mesmers do have many abilities that apply confusion, but they all lack in duration and/or in the amount of stacks. Some other abilites were nerfed (like Blinding Befuddlement).
Nothing ingame can stack confusion as effective as these runes.

Click Me!

Just an example:
Cry of Frustration (untraited) stacks up to 3 confusion for 3-4 seconds, on a base cooldown of 30 seconds. These runes stack 3x confusion for 13 seconds (15s CD) plus another 5 stacks for 13s on interrupts (no CD).

I went and made a vid from the vs perplexity side.

Cry of Frustration really needs a lower cooldown, it’s basically the condition version of Mind Wrack.

Either that or put some torment on Mind Wrack. So it can double dip like power builds can with CoF.

Knote.2904:

Cry of Frustration really needs a lower cooldown, it’s basically the condition version of Mind Wrack.

Either that or put some torment on Mind Wrack. So it can double dip like power builds can with CoF.

I said that last bit ~ a month ago. It’d serve two purposes:

1. Torment access on something besides Scepter.
2. Logically, you could just change Mental Torment’s %dmg increase to Torment.
   Any long-termer Mes knows that MT/IP are what makes for really hellacious Mind
   Wrack, as things are now.

it is still pretty much halfarsed implementation for mesmers. u cant build stacks with short runtimes, long animations on weapons and poor traits( which means taking all confusion traits leads to total kitten builds…imo).
my norn does more damage wiht owl bleedings than with confusion. and hes not even specced for conditiondamage (except a decent 45% condition duration for bleeds).
the solution via runes is an absolutely ridiculous admitting of anets fails with confusion tbh…

If you want your build to rely on confusion play an engi.

Biggest issue right now is that runes of perplexity have made Warriors and Engineers easily capable of stacking Confusion to 25 and re-applying it there. At that point, it does quite decent damage.

In other words I expect another nerf to Confusion – soon.
Missing ofc the true issue that the Runes should either have an ICD, or just a shorter duration (I mean come on, Cry of Frustration is 3~4 stacks for three seconds, while 6/6 Runes is 5 stacks for ten seconds. And on a much more spammable effect even on Mesmers!).

I agree with Nuka btw, Engineer is the much better Confusion class. Both Pry Bar and Concussion Bomb are better applicators than our Cry of Frustration or Confusing Images, and the runes work so much better on them it’s scary.

It’s mesmers who should have access to better confusion, not engineers or warriors or whatever else. It even has butterflies. It’s mesmer condition, like anomaly and of the mists are mesmer weapons. We even have traits for confusion. How come engineers can stack it better without such traits? It’s simply insulting.

I thought about it before in threads about the PMage, and I really think the issue is that our class shows just how afraid ANet is of Confusion, due to the way it works compared to other damaging conditions.

Ours last very very short. But seen in historic context, given our multiple sources of it (especially before the glamour trait was nerfed :S ), they were afraid we would completely overload players on Confusion. They even reduces the Mage Confusion from 10s to 3s.

Engineers have 5s Confusion, which probably made sense at the time because they only have two ways to apply it.

However now, and especially given the runes, we are the least-confusion-causing class of the ones which can utilize the run. We have a lot of interrupts, but not enough to keep up with the others, and Engineer Confusion is 1-for-1 superior to ours.

I think the issue to me is: I want Confusion to be dangerous, but at 25 stacks it’d then be too dangerous. Best way I see right now is to make it stack charges instead of power.

We both know anet won’t lift a finger to fix confusion stacking mechanics for good. I’m afraid they will only nerf perplexity 6 and then add it to structured pvp… which may turn it into confusionfest, people will complain, mesmer confusion nerfed again.

I do somewhat hope they nerf Perplexity6, it should really have some reasonable ICD. I like it being so strong, but it’s too easy to stack for the more spammy classes.

Alternatively, maybe we should have it baked in?

Mantra of Distraction
Charge a Mantra. Charges can be used to confuse and interrupt enemies.
On hit: 1 stack of Confusion for 10s.
_On interrupt: 4 stacks of Confusion for 5s.

Then the runes could be:
Rune of Perplexity 6/6: Cause 5 stacks of confusion when you interrupt a foe. 10 seconds internal cooldown. When using Mantra of Distraction, cause an extra stack of confusion on use.

Come to think of it, such “class-only” effects could be useful on all class-ability-giving runes. Slightly buff the copied ability if someone from the class it’s from uses it!

Shameless self-quote:

tetrodoxin.2134:

Confusion builds (after the WvW nerf) didn’t have any viability for Mesmers. Sure you could get some stacks on the enemy, but with the short duration it wasn’t really worth the effort (many traits involved).

And that’s basically the thing that bothers me. Without these runes, you can spend tons and tons of traits into confusion as a Mesmer and that won’t get you anywhere near to what these runes do. Lockdown/Punishment-On-Action Builds were one of those things that made the Mesmer unique and awesome in GW1. Now, what happened with GW2? They basically took all the punishing hex spells and converted them to a single crappy condition (aka confusion). Not enough, now with these runes every class can be a better Mesmer than the Mesmer itself. Other classes (like engineer) do have much more reliable access to other conditions. It seems to me that anet tried to buff Confusion Mesmers, without thinking about other classes. That’s why these runes probably get nerfed someday, again leaving the Mesmer with crappy Confusion.

That said, I would really welcome a +25% buff instead of confusion on interrupt. Of course that would favour those classes that already have confusion, why not? Every class should prioritize on different conditions, at least that would be ideal. Giving all classes superior access to all conditions results in what we currently have, and that’s a condition spamfest.

Winds.3087:

It’s mesmers who should have access to better confusion, not engineers or warriors or whatever else. It even has butterflies. It’s mesmer condition, like anomaly and of the mists are mesmer weapons. We even have traits for confusion. How come engineers can stack it better without such traits? It’s simply insulting.

yeah it feels like a slap in the face.confusion was one of our signature moves.
warriors have stuns and high dps, thieves have stealth and mobility, necros have tons of conditions and also can deal with conditions very well, guardians are super tanky and have tons of boons, engis have access to a lot of different things…now the remaining 3 classes have no clear role anymore.
mesmers are supposed to be masters of illusions and confusions…..
clones die too fast in wvw,cofusion builds have been nerfed to the ground, engis can do a lot of things we can do, but faster and better, the rune of perplexity has longer lasting confusion than we ever had and gives it to classes that are already part of the meta. comon warriors are strong enough already with their mass ccs and thieves thieves have high dps, lots of stuns, ton of mobility…and now get confusion?!

epic fail anet!

Winds.3087:

It’s mesmers who should have access to better confusion, not engineers or warriors or whatever else. It even has butterflies. It’s mesmer condition, like anomaly and of the mists are mesmer weapons. We even have traits for confusion. How come engineers can stack it better without such traits? It’s simply insulting.

Sigh…

I give up… I’m just gunna go play mah spirit ranger where I simply spam Sword 1 to do stupid damage to everything. Here I’ll be mindlessly tapping 1 while all those poor mesmers are furiously trying to execute complex skill rotations, tactics, and whatever else all while developing an unhealthy drinking habit. Granted, necro is nearly as mindless if you want it to be. Necro pvp flow chart: “target something” -> “target has no conditions?” -> “spam conditions!” -> “win”

Winds.3087:

It’s mesmers who should have access to better confusion, not engineers or warriors or whatever else. It even has butterflies. It’s mesmer condition, like anomaly and of the mists are mesmer weapons. We even have traits for confusion. How come engineers can stack it better without such traits? It’s simply insulting.

Pretty much. I remember when warriors trait that applied 4 stacks of confusion per rupt was applying them for 3sec and everyone was mad cuz the duration is too low, why the hell is everyone applying confusion for 5+ sec and mesmers stuck at 3sec? Its mesmers that should be the best at this condition, not warriors or engis.

Considering how many issues folk have with the Perplexity Set:

• We’re never getting our Confusion duration buffed.
• Which is bloody unfortunate, because I agree with the rest of our guys, Confusion is supposed to be THE Mesmer Condition.
• What the hey? Why not bake something like Perplexity 6/6 in as an actual Mesmer Trait? Then swap the Rune’s bit to duration. I think that’s been suggested before.

The rune itself is fine, plenty class effects exist as runes. The issue is how it highlights just how weak our class-based Confusion is.

Heh. Tell me about it, I’ve mainlined Condi or Confuser builds for most of my Mesmer’s existence. The problem I’m seeing, is that ANet has no idea what they want to do with this class, or Confusion in specific. Amp it (or Mesmers) too high, folk cry. Drop either too low, folk twitch out. As much crap as I give the devs for aspects of this game’s balancing … I must admit, I do not envy their position.